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Author Topic: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier  (Read 21807 times)

sillybrit

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Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« on: 08 April 2012, 21:29:00 »
Grenadier Battle Armor - Technical Readout 3075 page 35



     The impact of the AFFS' Grenadier Assault Battle Armor can probably best be summed up by the initial reaction of a player I knew when he first saw the stats. The uttering of the words "Oh My Grenadier" in an awed tone, followed by a brief stint with the design being nicknamed the "OMG", perfectly suited the ability for a squad to throw up to thirty two points of damage out to nine hexes, and not just once or twice like most missile-heavy Battle Armor, but more than half a dozen times.

     First appearing in Combat Equipment in 2005, the Grenadier's write up confirms those first impressions that it was designed to mount the heaviest possible firepower while retaining a reasonable level of mobility, with armor unmentioned as a design concern. Unlike many other AFFS suits that originated in the Suns, such as the seminal Inner Sphere Standard, the Grenadier wasn't the brainchild of the New Avalon Institute of Science, and instead owes its existence to the Hahm-Heinz Design Bureau. A product of one of the longest development projects in Battle Armor history, Hahm-Heinz first began work on the Grenadier in the early 3050s after receiving a request for design via their corporate partner, the military-industrial giant GM. Excusing themselves from that original competition, Hahm-Heinz set to work, with the end result being the Grenadier, although the path wasn't easy due to the designers having to teach themselves how to design Battle Armor.

     After the long drawn out development, in 3062 Hahm-Heinz were finally in a position to approach the then-called AFFC with their design, together with a pair of prototypes. No doubt to much surprise and disappointment, the company did not receive a positive response and their Battle Armor concept was turned away, not even getting a trial deployment. Later events were to give the almost stillborn Grenadier another chance, with the outbreak of the FedCom Civil War leading to a desperate need for Battle Armor to replace the heavy losses, resulting in the suit finally entering front line service in 3065. Even then, the Grenadier's early career wasn't smooth sailing due to bureaucratic snafus and limited production capability restricting the number of suits that were produced until the Civil War was actually over, with initial batches serving in the Davion Assault Guards and Ceti Hussars.

     The disruption caused by the Jihad that followed soon on the heels of the Civil War continued the Grenadier's woes, with some GM executives even trying to kill off the relatively low rate production to allow resources to be diverted elsewhere, but supporters rallied with an impressive marketing relations campaign dubbed "Operation Parade". By hiring hundreds of retired Battle Armor troopers, Hahm-Heinz and their GM sponsors were able to field several battalions and companies equipped with Grenadiers, plus unnamed prototype suits, deploying them as fire brigades. Sent to reinforce beleaguered AFFS troops as they fought to oust Blakist invaders and other foes, many of these units were involved in the vicious fighting for New Avalon itself.

     After its debut in Combat Equipment, the Grenadier later appeared in Technical Readout 3075, which added new configurations as well as a variant design, but in addition it also introduced a so-far unexplained nerf. According to Combat Equipment, the very first batches of Grenadiers had a completely fixed armament, but field experience led to the introduction of configurability, in the form of Modular Weapon Mounts on the left arm and torso. Although the former mount remains, along with an Anti-Personnel Weapon Mount on the right arm, the torso mount has been exchanged for the fixed four-tube SRM launcher. Assuming this wasn't an accident, my guess is that the design was changed to reduce the number that of configurations, thus cutting down on the record sheet count, or to avoid possible clashes with the Hauberk, which had been published in its Classic BattleTech form two years before the Grenadier. I know some players who still prefer to use the original Combat Equipment stats, resulting in non-canon games involving Grenadiers fielding Medium Lasers or four-tube LRM launchers.

    Even with the unfortunate reduction in the original Grenadier's flexibility, the suit still remains a monster in combat, especially favored in urban fighting and other environments that allow it to get up close and personal before introducing its opponent to a face full of SRMs. Despite possessing twice the ground speed of foot infantry, its lack of jump jets and the inability of Assault Battle Armor to partake in Mechanized Battle Armor operations does impose some maneuver restrictions in open field combat, but with good APC support and careful planning the Grenadier can also prove just as effective in less confined battlefields. Of course, in the latter cases, a clever opponent will try to keep the battle mobile and thus isolate the Grenadiers, and the suits are at greater risk of being destroyed by enemy units out of their reach, so close coordination with supporting units is very important to obtain the greatest benefit from Grenadiers' ponderous but powerful bubble of doom.

     With seven reloads for the SRM launcher, it's not uncommon to see a Grenadier squad die before it runs out of ammunition, but unless it's caught in the open by an enemy with greater range, the enemy is usually going to pay a heavy price for that kill. Offering superb crit seeking, with up to sixteen individual hits per full four-man squad, many players have seen Grenadiers crit out even the heaviest 'Mechs and tanks, and it's not uncommon for an unfortunate Mechwarrior to be knocked over just from the sheer amount of damage inflicted by a single salvo. There's little to be gained from getting up close, with the potential of an additional dozen points of damage from the standard Small Laser often enough to offset the Grenadier's inability to perform Anti-'Mech attacks.

     Technical Readout 3075 added some solid alternatives for the Small Laser, even as the SRM launcher became a fixed mounting, and apart from the Flamer, in my opinion it's hard so say what is the best option. The superb Magshot is an obvious choice for many players, with its incredible range matching that of the SRMs and in effect turning the Grenadier into a walking SRM5 battery. For players who expect their enemy to field a mixed force of infantry and armored targets, the Light Recoilless Rifle is another excellent choice, but my own personal favorite for larger combined arms games is the Light TAG. Whether targeting for artillery, laser-guided bombs or Semi-Guided LRMs, the TAG can turn the suit's missiles into a mere sidekick, used only for self defense, with the main punch coming from the friendly fire support. Even with this impressive trio, the oft-overlooked Flamer shouldn't be discounted, particularly in urban fights, with its anti-infantry firepower and incendiary ability making it a solid contender despite its limited range.

     To protect this powerful armament, the Grenadier is wrapped in a mere nine points of Standard Stealth armor, which is a major turn off for some players. While the stealth capability can help keep the suit alive, despite the inability to generate a Target Movement Modifier, being unable to withstand hits heavier than an Inner Sphere Large Pulse Laser is a major weakness for an Assault design. With its ground speed of 2 MP being unable to generate a Target Movement Modifier, I know some who argue that the Grenadier would have been better served with halving its speed and thus freeing mass to strengthen the armor. It's hard not to agree with that idea given that the extra Movement Point often has little effect, but I must admit I've gotten used to the flaw and to me it's part of the character of the Grenadier.

     jymset: Indeed, the 9 points of armour are an integral part of the design both in terms of fluff and rules. While certainly suboptimal, this armour load firmly places its roots among the design philosophy of the first- and early second-generation suits of Inner Sphere powers. This suit weighs twice as much, but this weight was clearly gained for extra weaponry to be fitted.

     And from a game perspective, that's a good thing, too. In my experiences, the Grenadier is one of, if not the best IS suit. When it appeared, it had heavier firepower than all other contenders (and short of the Kopis, it's still one of the top dogs). More crucially, it moved faster than any of them, too. On top of that, it has very competent stealth capabilities. Ooh yeah. The dual Stealth/MWM nerf since CE still does not stop the Grenadier being one of the very best general suits out there.

     Having its ammo/MWM weight tweaked to add another crucial point of armour would have optimised it to a level of "sick" that would not have been fun.


     In addition to introducing new configurations, Technical Readout 3075 and the Jihad gave us the Grenadier Hunter-Killer, a variant that has been optimized for ambushes. Swapping missile endurance for throw weight, the backpack launcher is swapped for a five-tube system that is supplied with just four shots. Unlike the original version, it's not unheard of for H-K units to run out of missiles quicker than they run out of armor, although the standard Magshot mounted on the left arm still allows the squad to reach out nine hexes to remind the enemy that they can't completely ignore them. At closer ranges, the awesome Firedrake replaces the original Anti-Personnel Weapon Mount, giving the Hunter-Killer a powerful but lightweight anti-infantry attack. As many players who complain that the Magshot is unbalanced, I often wonder why so few express similar discontent for the Firedrake; Flamer damage against PBIs for just one third the mass is simply jaw dropping in my opinion.

     The alternative configuration for the Hunter-Killer, a Compact Narc, is something of an oddity under Total War, because it cannot be used in the way described in the Technical Readout. As per the standard Total War rules, Inner Sphere Battle Armor have very limited missile options, being able to use only standard warheads or Inferno SRMs - technically they can also use torpedoes, but without UMUs entering water can be a great way for Battle Armor to commit suicide. That makes the reference to the Narc enhanced targeting helping improve the firepower of the Grenadier's own SRMs totally incorrect, an issue shared by the mention of the standard version's TAG configuration assisting LRM-armed Hauberks. Again, this is an area where some players go non-canon and allow the use of other specialty rounds, but even without that choice the Narc can be useful with the right supporting units, although personally I don't consider it a very Davion weapon.

     As a side note, while talking about the Grenadier's fluff not matching the rules, I know some who've read the passage that describes Grenadier units armed with both standard and Inferno rounds as meaning that mixed magazines loads are possible. Going by Total War, that is not possible, and in addition I also believe that because the passage in question says "a company of Operation Parade Grenadiers deployed with mixed conventional and Inferno rounds", what was actually meant was that some squads in the company used Infernos, while other squads used the normal warheads.

     So, how to use the Grenadier? As mentioned above, it can be simply evil in urban warfare and other confined terrain, where the enemy risks at every turn the possibility of coming face to face with a squad at point blank range. Hidden unit rules make this even more likely, although unfortunately for all models of stealthy Battle Armor, Total War took away the ability to hide from Active Probes. Even with the increased vulnerability to Probes, they can make for a great sneaky bodyguard for fire support units instead of or in addition to the usual bruiser-type 'Mech or tank normally assigned to the role.

     I also greatly enjoy using the design as Battle Armor hunter killers, loading them up with Infernos, which enables even a single salvo to take out an entire squad of heavily armored Assault suits like the Kanazuchi, or the more modern Ravager.  The standard Grenadier does need to get a little lucky on the Cluster Hit Table for this one-shot kill, with the Hunter-Killer variant more comfortably achieving the result. The Inferno loadout also proves lethal against armored vehicles and even conventional infantry, although the latter can be somewhat wasteful in my opinion.

     Although the default Total War rules allow Grenadier squads to be carried by any APCs that possess a four ton infantry bay, I prefer to use the advanced rules and so field those vehicles that can lift at least eight tons. Despite their vulnerabilties, I'm partial to the Maxim (I) Heavy Hover Transport and Karnov UR Transport (BA) for rapid deployments, however when I'm expecting a knock-down drag-out fight in a scenario that allows non-canon configurations, then any of the Ajax, Manteuffel or Schiltron trio of OmniVehicles feature high on my Do Want list.

     All in all the Grenadier is a powerhouse of the AFFS' Battle Armor corps, despite some being put off by its most un-Assault-like level of protection. As I noted above, while at times I've also bemoaned the weakness, I find it adds to the design's character; it's the flaw that balances its strengths, and is an issue shared by the other premier AFFS suits, whether it be sub-par armor or mobility. While some may complain that the AFFS lacks a true "tank" or brawler design, a Heavy or Assault suit capable of soaking up damage while it keeps fighting, I find that the Grenadier's balance of expendable firepower and armor works well overall. The Grenadier's abilties promote the do-or-die aggressive attitude that typifies many Battle Armor fights once the bullets finally start flying, and if it can fight its own game it can be a brutal opponent for any foe.

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Welshman

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #1 on: 08 April 2012, 21:57:52 »
One of my favorite suits, in stats and in looks. They are a very cheap way to protect an artillery or command (C3 master tank) as their bodyguard. The Morningstar can even Cary a squad as its protection.

With the Republic having access to these and the Kopis, you can create some nasty units. Like the Black Torrent SpecOps team that fields these as well as a squad of Angerona and Clan Elementals. Careful what dark alleys you walk into eith these BA in play.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #2 on: 08 April 2012, 23:36:18 »
What where the effects of the nerf?
Given that BA use all-up vehicular ammo but not launchers it wouldn't be un-reasonable for them to use alternate ammo, Tear Gas would be great, knock the crew out then hijack the vee

sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #3 on: 09 April 2012, 00:27:41 »
What where the effects of the nerf?

On the plus side, the TRO3075 version can mount equip a Magshot on its left-arm MWM, but with the original torso-mounted MWM you're forced to move one of the four slots required by the armor into the left arm, leaving only two slots free, which isn't enough for the Magshot.

That limitation aside, with 725kg, two free arm slots and five free torso slots, you've got a wide variety of possible equipment combos, typically mounting the larger weapon on the torso - see the article for a couple of examples, but beyond that the discussion should really move to the custom design section of the board.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #4 on: 09 April 2012, 03:27:14 »
Interesting. I didn't know about the design's origins. Thanks for the great write-up.

It does bring up an interesting question for me. If the design had been rejected, could the company have put it into production on their own? I'm sure there are regulations that keep you from jumping borders with designs, but building it within the FedSuns borders for sale to mercs and planetary militias?
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Jim1701

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #5 on: 09 April 2012, 12:41:29 »
Interesting. I didn't know about the design's origins. Thanks for the great write-up.

It does bring up an interesting question for me. If the design had been rejected, could the company have put it into production on their own? I'm sure there are regulations that keep you from jumping borders with designs, but building it within the FedSuns borders for sale to mercs and planetary militias?

They might have thought about it but there was only three years between the initial rejection in 3062 and their initial production in 3065 so the military brass probably came back and said "So how fast can you start building these things." before they could get anything going on their own. 

Ferrosol

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #6 on: 09 April 2012, 13:12:05 »
I used to play as the FWL a lot in a megamek campaign and by god did I used to despise the grenadier. Its fairly easy to kill in open terrain if you can see it coming (although that nasty srm volley means you want to do it at long range) but in tight terrain it was damn near terrifying. I remember once walking round a corner in a city fight to find two grenadier squads waiting for my ostsol. It was not a happy experience let me tell you that.  Also the grenadier is great in a combined arms game I used to run across davion players who liked to combine the grenadier with long range snipers like the nightstar or dual Gauss Jagermech  or that one argus variant with the erppc and lrms and the combo was close to unbeatable. You either stayed at long range in which case you were peppered by excellent snipers or you closed in which case you were murdered by accurate close range fire and then crit seeked to death.

There was a reason that at one point damn near every force I had possessed its own arrow IV mech. Usually used to direct fire away annoying davion BA.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #7 on: 09 April 2012, 18:57:25 »
The AFFS sure loves battlearmor, don't they? They have, IIRC, more designs than other factions, but how do they move them around? The AFFS isn't so heavy on omnimechs.
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willydstyle

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #8 on: 09 April 2012, 19:10:12 »
The AFFS sure loves battlearmor, don't they? They have, IIRC, more designs than other factions, but how do they move them around? The AFFS isn't so heavy on omnimechs.

Most of the 3058 IS omnis are pretty much available to any IS faction, as they were designed and distributed during the short-lived Second Star League.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #9 on: 09 April 2012, 19:13:31 »
The AFFS sure loves battlearmor, don't they? They have, IIRC, more designs than other factions, but how do they move them around? The AFFS isn't so heavy on omnimechs.

The AFFS uses APC transport as their predominant method of moving units. Cavalry and Karnov VTOLs, Maxim hovers, Morningstars and even the rare Jo Bob Outback pickup truck (good for only one BA at a time).

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #10 on: 09 April 2012, 19:22:57 »
ah, ok. Thanks for the update. Still, it sounds a bit patched together. Each regiment is on its own for infantry transport?

The AFFS uses APC transport as their predominant method of moving units. Cavalry and Karnov VTOLs, Maxim hovers, Morningstars and even the rare Jo Bob Outback pickup truck (good for only one BA at a time).

"Hey Billy Ray, git the Grin-deer in the truck- we're goin' duck huntin'. Real big ducks   :D
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #11 on: 09 April 2012, 19:52:01 »
The new HK model is a dream ambush unit.
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sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #12 on: 09 April 2012, 21:23:31 »
On the plus side, the TRO3075 version can mount equip a Magshot on its left-arm MWM, but with the original torso-mounted MWM you're forced to move one of the four slots required by the armor into the left arm, leaving only two slots free, which isn't enough for the Magshot.

That limitation aside, with 725kg, two free arm slots and five free torso slots, you've got a wide variety of possible equipment combos, typically mounting the larger weapon on the torso - see the article for a couple of examples, but beyond that the discussion should really move to the custom design section of the board.

Scrub that. Fatigue and laziness meant I only checked my copy of TRO3075 & not Tech Manual. The TRO incorrectly shows the SRM4 launcher & ammo requiring 5 slots, but that should just be 4 (I have to wonder if that's a holdover from when the design did have a MWM and thus that would have required the 5th slot).

So the Combat Equipment version could equip a left-arm Magshot, assuming that 3 of the armor slots are placed in the right arm and the last armor slot is placed in the torso, leaving 3 slots free in the left arm and 4 slots free in the torso.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #13 on: 09 April 2012, 21:31:45 »
ah, ok. Thanks for the update. Still, it sounds a bit patched together. Each regiment is on its own for infantry transport?

"Hey Billy Ray, git the Grin-deer in the truck- we're goin' duck huntin'. Real big ducks   :D

LCTs ideally feature organic VTOL transport for a Regiment of BA. Several sources have indicated that the Cavalry Infantry and it's successor the Cavalry Infiltrator are the prefered platform for BA transport.

It's honestly my absolute favorite tactical doctrine in the history of BT tactical doctrine.
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #14 on: 10 April 2012, 00:28:18 »
LCTs ideally feature organic VTOL transport for a Regiment of BA. Several sources have indicated that the Cavalry Infantry and it's successor the Cavalry Infiltrator are the prefered platform for BA transport.

It's honestly my absolute favorite tactical doctrine in the history of BT tactical doctrine.

VTOLs make up a large part of an LCTs BA transport. They don't make up all of it. Ground based APCs also factor into transport. Moving a regiment of BA takes a lot of carriers.
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #15 on: 10 April 2012, 02:10:48 »
The AFFS uses APC transport as their predominant method of moving units. Cavalry and Karnov VTOLs, Maxim hovers, Morningstars and even the rare Jo Bob Outback pickup truck (good for only one BA at a time).
How is that image of a Grenadier on the back of a pickup coming along? I remember someone saying they would get it done.

But yes, a really nasty design. It might be a tad low on the armour, but it's firepower makes up for that. Allowing it to kill units more quickly than they can strip off the light armour. And I like the 2 MP ground speed. It means they can clear buildings a bit quicker. Which is exactly what I want on such a short ranged design.

And on another point the name Grenadier really suits this design. It's really big, fights at short range and does a lot of damage. While still being just as vulnerable as everyone else. Much like the grenadiers of old. Makes me wonder if units fielding them exclusively will have names that haken back to those old days.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #16 on: 10 April 2012, 02:57:25 »
VTOLs make up a large part of an LCTs BA transport. They don't make up all of it. Ground based APCs also factor into transport. Moving a regiment of BA takes a lot of carriers.
I'd advise small craft for any sort of long distance move on planet, designing one that could lift an entire company should be easy and you'd only need 9 or 10 for the whole regiment, VTOL's for tactical movement, yes, but you shouldn't have to move the whole regiment at once that way (or at the very least it's an eggs in basket case)

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #17 on: 10 April 2012, 03:47:57 »
There is also the Aurora dropship with it's modular bays that can help quickly move around a large force of battlearmor. Can't recall how much a squad cost in weight. But with four modular bays capable of holding 150 tons each. It should be be capable of carrying a fair few suits.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #18 on: 10 April 2012, 05:26:12 »
Under the TW standard 1 ton per trooper that could carry 150 troopers
If I'm reading the FORCE DISTRIBUTION TABLE, StratOps, pg. 239 right, 36 elements[squads] per regiment * 4 troopers per squad is 144 troopers, so it would work, even with a little room to carry a extra squad

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #19 on: 10 April 2012, 12:42:29 »
Thank you for the article. I very well done piece for a very fun BA. Makes me want to salvage some for my Lyran force.
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #20 on: 10 April 2012, 14:44:05 »
There is also the Aurora dropship with it's modular bays that can help quickly move around a large force of battlearmor. Can't recall how much a squad cost in weight. But with four modular bays capable of holding 150 tons each. It should be be capable of carrying a fair few suits.

Under the TW standard 1 ton per trooper that could carry 150 troopers
If I'm reading the FORCE DISTRIBUTION TABLE, StratOps, pg. 239 right, 36 elements[squads] per regiment * 4 troopers per squad is 144 troopers, so it would work, even with a little room to carry a extra squad


BA Bay for DS Transport is 10 Tons / Squad  (Not 4, that is APC's for short term travel)

Lyran BA Platoons/Companies are base 4.
4 Squads / Platoon
4 Platoons / Company
4 Companies / Battalion  (64 Elements)
And we have TPTB saying the FS at least follow that 4 patter to the regimental level, and the Lyrans & Fedsuns appear to be the same so in theory they are also 4 Battalion BA Regiments

Which would be 256 Squads or 1024 Total Suits.


Either way an Aurora wont cut it.
But they do move a couple Companies around well w/ cargo space for food & ammo or even a single Light Vee.




150 Ton bay = Max 15 Squads, less than 1 company.
Less 50 tons for a Maxim-I and you get 80 Tons for 2 Platoons w/ 20 left over for food/ammo.

This means a single Aurora can easily move 2 BA Companies (128 Suits / 32 Squads) & 4 Maxims around with enough supplies for a good bit of fighting.

Not a bad garrison or rapid response force.
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #21 on: 10 April 2012, 15:29:04 »
The AFFS sure loves battlearmor, don't they? They have, IIRC, more designs than other factions, but how do they move them around? The AFFS isn't so heavy on omnimechs.

Units like the Grenadier and Hauberk can't ride omnis anyway. 

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #22 on: 10 April 2012, 17:08:19 »
BA Bay for DS Transport is 10 Tons / Squad  (Not 4, that is APC's for short term travel)

It's 2 tons per suit, so 8 tons per squad, 10 tons per point, or 12 tons per Level I.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #23 on: 10 April 2012, 17:33:08 »
It's 2 tons per suit, so 8 tons per squad, 10 tons per point, or 12 tons per Level I.

You keep your slimy WoB hands off my suits....


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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #24 on: 10 April 2012, 18:45:46 »
VTOLs make up a large part of an LCTs BA transport. They don't make up all of it. Ground based APCs also factor into transport. Moving a regiment of BA takes a lot of carriers.

Sure, but this line from FR:AFFS

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Recon is
handled by dedicated VTOL assets, which also
form the core of the transport for the dedicated
battle armor forces.

Combined with this from XTRO Davion

Quote
The Cavalry attack helicopter has been the AFFS’ premiere battle
armor delivery VTOL for some fifteen years. With an impressive top speed
and rugged airframe, it has hot dropped thousands of battle-armored
soldiers into combat.

As well as several of the unit write ups from 3085 seem to indicate that VTOL deployment of Medium and light suits is the rule rather than the exception in the AFFS post 3070ish.
Quote
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Welshman

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #25 on: 10 April 2012, 18:56:46 »
Crunch,

I invented the LCT. :)

Yes, VTOLs are a big part. They are not the only part. Putting all your transport in a single vehicle class is a good way to limit your deployment ability. Many worlds don't support VTOL flight or might have weather that prohibits use.

Premiere doesn't mean primary, it means it gets a hell of a lot of the glory.
-Joel BC-
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"Some closets will never contain Narnia, no matter how many times we open the door." - Weirdo, in relation to the power of hope.

Crunch

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #26 on: 10 April 2012, 19:23:08 »
Crunch,

I invented the LCT. :)

Yes, VTOLs are a big part. They are not the only part. Putting all your transport in a single vehicle class is a good way to limit your deployment ability. Many worlds don't support VTOL flight or might have weather that prohibits use.

Premiere doesn't mean primary, it means it gets a hell of a lot of the glory.

I know :)

And honestly I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to emphasize that "Bubba's pick up truck" is not the state of the art for the AFFS.
Quote
It's really, it's a very, very beautiful poem to giant monsters. Giant monsters versus giant robots.
G. Del Toro

Gryphon

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #27 on: 10 April 2012, 20:37:18 »
But, but, its a really, really NICE pickup truck, it even has a chromed cow catcher!

Seriously though, at a up to two tons a piece, a wheeled light cargo vehicle is the last thing you even want to consider using. Even if its large enough to carry a full squad of "only" one ton suits, its still a wheeled vehicle. In many situations where a wheeled vehicle shines, a battle suit does equally as well, such as urban settings. And for strategic movement, the method is unimportant. After all, even fi you stink of cow manure when you get to the fight, the cow carrier that got you there was a real blessing, since it could move your entire 16 man company and maybe still have room for your support personnel and some of their field resupply gear.

Welshman

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #28 on: 11 April 2012, 01:19:22 »
I know :)

And honestly I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to emphasize that "Bubba's pick up truck" is not the state of the art for the AFFS.

Oh! Sorry. It was a joke that came up in, I think, the Fa Shih thread. Using a house variant of the squad transport rules and having units just big enough to move a single BA.

The image of a Grenadier holding onto a Red Neck pickup truck as it ripple fired captured imagination.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Grenadier
« Reply #29 on: 11 April 2012, 01:45:07 »
They can always drop out the sides or back of a small craft.

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Colt Ward

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