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Author Topic: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor  (Read 6773 times)

sillybrit

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Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« on: 20 April 2012, 22:19:10 »
Larry, Curly and Moe - Technical Readout 3075 page 27



     As the name suggests, the Trinity series is three suits in one, although a case could be made that it's just a single suit with three lines of variants. Coming from another trinity, the design is a product of the alliance between the Capellan Confederation, Taurian Concordat and Magistracy of Canopus. Most notably, the latter two powers are thus the first Periphery states to produce their own Battle Armor design.

     First introduced in Combat Equipment, the Trinity is one of the relative latecomers to the Battle Armor world prior to the outbreak in innovation and revelation of the Blakist designs that came with the Jihad. The project to develop the first version that entered service, the CCAF's Ying Long, was incredibly short compared with most designs, with Combat Eqipment stating that R&D started in 3064 and production in just 3066, although the latter has now been replaced with an even earlier date of 3065 as per the Master Unit List.

     The Trinity concept was born out of requests by CCAF commanders for greater access to Battle Armor. Most Fa Shihs that were being produced were being allocated to premier units like the Warrior Houses, leaving few leftovers for the less favored units. An audacious move given the disciplinary culture of the Capellan military, the commanders' requests were met with the proposal to introduce a new design. After signing up financial support from the Taurians and Canopians, the Ying Long practically flew into service, leaving some to speculate that the suit had been waiting all along, and just needed funding to bring it into production.

     Whether the Capellans did use their Trinity partners to recoup the costs of an already developed design is likely a question that depends upon your viewpoint of the Confederation for an answer. According to the Readout, the Capellans did then treat the Taurians and Canopians somewhat shabbily as far as then fulfilling their side of the bargain with respect to deliveries of their own redesigned models. As a result, both powers eventually reverse-engineered their respective suits with Capellan assistance and began production themselves. This left the Capellans with undelivered copies of both, with some then even entering CCAF service judging by the RATs in Field Manual 3085.

     Exactly when the Taurians and Canopians began building their own Trinity variants is not certain. According to Technical Readout 3075, once all three models were ready, the two Periphery states suffered from a "few years" of delays at the hands of the Capellans before they became self-reliant, which would perhaps indicate they began production themselves in 3068 or later going by typical interpretations of "few". However, Handbook: Major Periphery States, which is apparently dated as 3067, shows the Taurians already building their version of the Trinity, and in addition names a different manufacturer to that in the Technical Readout, with the discrepancy as yet unexplained.

     One issue that remains unexplained regarding the reason for the Trinity is what about the Capellan version of the Inner Sphere Standard? According to the write up for the Fa Shih, the CCAF fielded the IS Standard while developing their own suit, but the Standard then is all but forgotten after that point and could easily be mistaken as having never been used by the Capellans. The question then begs to be asked, if the CCAF needed to quickly introduce Battle Armor to supplement the Fa Shih, what was wrong with the Standard? And why didn't the Taurians and Canopians ask the same question?

     More in-universe controversy dogged the Trinity series, with the Taurians, who had named their minotaur-like suit the Asterion, becoming upset when the Canopians called their model the Theseus. Perhaps not the friendliest of moves, this choice of name no doubt owes its origin to the past conflicts between the two states, with some diehard or joker in the MCAF or Canopian government presumably taking the opportunity for a sly jab at their enemy-turned-ally.

     The Capellans' Ying Long also had its own share of drama thanks to its Mimetic armor. A technology developed by the Word of Blake, it's not known how the Capellans managed to put it into production, just a few years after its introduction on the Purifier and long before any other power duplicated the feat. Erstwhile allies, the Blakists stopped short of accusations of theft and other states even believe that there was some sort of secret deal. All sorts of speculation are possible here, but ultimately the truth is unlikely to ever be revealed, and in the aftermath of the Jihad it no longer really matters in any case.

     Unlike the Ying Long, the Asterion and Theseus use the simpler and cheaper standard armor plating, but otherwise the trio of base designs are identical apart from their cosmetic appearance and height, with the Ying Long being the shortest and the Theseus the tallest. As would be expected given the Xin Sheng movement, the Ying Long, which translates as Shadow Dragon, is modeled after a Chinese dragon, while the head structure of the Taurian's Asterion has features reminiscent of the Minotaur. For the sakes of decency, it's probably a good thing that the Theseus apparently doesn't attempt recreate Canopian traits given their reputation.

     jymset: The Theseus is actually described to be "somewhat taller" mostly due to the picture. This is exacerbated by the miniature, which rivals the GD Standard as the most oversized BA piece in existence. It truly challenges some ProtoMechs, and is so large that there's enough room inside to swing a Canopian catgirl by the tail without touching the sides.

     With each mounting eight points of armor, the Trinity suits can survive any single hit up to and including an Inner Sphere Large Laser. Arguably, this is a smarter choice than the nine points mounted on the IS Standard, given that the only common Inner Sphere weapon that can breach the Trinity suits' armor but not the Standard's is the Large Pulse Laser, with anything more powerful killing both. The mass saved is mostly put into weaponry, although the second Battle Claw does eat up a small fraction, for no major benefit outside of marine boarding actions.

     The Ying Long's Mimetic armor is perhaps best suited to slower Battle Armor, due to  greatest defensive bonus being provided when the suit is still or barely moving. Like the Purifier, this does make the Ying Long a fearsome ambusher, which retains the ability to rapidly reposition between engagements, albeit with little or no stealth protection while moving quickly. At least the Mimetic armor weighs the same as standard plating, so there's no loss of payload, although it is very bulky, which limits the possible weapon configurations, especially missile options.

     For mobility, the Trinity designers decided to excuse the typical jump jets and instead upgraded the ground speed to 3 Movement Points. Not only does that save yet more mass for the weaponry, it makes the Trinity suits highly capable urban fighters, due to their ability to quickly move in and around buildings. Outside cities, the suits can struggle with certain terrain types that suits such as the IS Standard can easily jump over, and any terrain that slows the suit down will result in it dropping below the threshold to generate a Target Movement Modifier. Despite this potential vulnerability, the Trinity suits are well regarded by many players, although personally I have an issue with their weaponry configuration.

     All three base models introduced in Combat Equipment and later repeated in Technical Readout 3075 come with a Modular Weapon Mount on the right shoulder. While this has the advantage of allowing bulkier weapons to be mounted, excusing the Ying Long in this regard due to its Mimetic armor, under Total War rules it does mean that the weaponry cannot be used to inflict damage during Swarm attacks, a change from its introduction in Combat Equipment. For some players this will not be a problem, given that the Swarm is often considered too slow and risky, however it is the only viable melee attack against vehicles, so it's not without its uses.

     With no less than 305kg to install a weapon or other equipment on the Modular Weapon Mount, the Ying Long is only limited by having only two slots remaining, which means it cannot be equipped with weapons such as the Magshot or reloadable missile launchers larger than a single tube. The Asterion and Theseus could both be configured with some impressive missile armament, being able to mount no less than a four-shot SRM 3 launcher, but like the Ying Long, the originals stuck purely to gun power.

     In the case of the Ying Long, the weapon of choice was the Capellans' own Plasma Rifle, which has recently received a major boost in effectiveness against Battle Armor thanks to the latest Tactical Operations errata. Now able to inflict an extra 1D6 in damage against suits lacking the Clantech Fire Resistant armor, a Ying Long can now potentially one-shot an Infiltrator Mk II or two-shot a Grenadier, for example.

     Just as they had to accept less advanced armor, the Taurians' and Canopians' models also had to make do with less sophisticated armament in the form of a Medium Recoilless Rifle, which does at least possess an oversized magazine to double the number of shots. Originally, this weapon change was a boon rather than a bane, due to Recoilless Rifles being much more effective against conventional infantry, while sharing the same performance against armor, but with the change to Plasma Rifles noted above, the Ying Long now has its own distinct advantage.

     The Taurians also began fielding a variant of the Asterion, although in truth it's merely a configuration. Exchanging the Recoilless Rifle for the longer ranged Support PPC, the Asterion (Support PPC) is less capable against infantry, but the slight improvement in range can be useful. Unfortunately for the Taurians, given their propensity to view the Davions as their constant enemy, the AFFS already field the Magshot, which has even greater range while providing the same firepower, on their Infiltrator Mk II.

     Meanwhile, the Canopians produced a true variant, in the form of the Theseus (Rocket Launcher). Of questionable value, in my opinion, this variant reduces the payload of the Modular Weapon Mount so that it can wield a fixed three-tube Rocket Launcher on the right arm. Incorrectly stated as three separate single-tube launchers in Technical Readout 3075, this is actually impossible as per the construction rules in Technical Manual, which limits each location to a single 'Mech-scale weapon. Personally, the (very) few times I've used or fought the variant, I've not found the rockets to be worth the loss of the Medium Recoilless Rifle for the Light version - which again has a double-sized magazine - but some players do like the extra range of the rockets, even if they are one-shot, and the flavor value cannot be discounted.

     While discussing weaponry and the Technical Readout 3075 versions, it would be remiss not to mention yet another oddity regarding the Trinity, this time the artwork. The Asterion, which is standing on the right of the artwork, clearly mounts some form of ballistic weapon on the left arm. Back in the days prior to Technical Readout 3085, some players I knew treated this as an Anti-Personnel Weapon Mount, with some treating it as standard for Asterions and others a mere field modification. With the coming of the Old Is The New New section, the suit could also be the Taurian's new Asterion (Upgrade).

     Switching to Advanced armor - making the Asterion (Upgrade) the first design to do so outside the Free Worlds League, excusing the Blakist designs - the design frees up the mass to add a Machine Gun, which is likely the mystery arm-mounted weapon, as well as allowing one manipulator to be upgraded to a Vibro Claw. These changes do reduce the Modular Weapon Mount's payload, but the Upgrade can still share the same main weapons as the Support PPC and original Asterion variants.

     Continuing their track record of even more drastic armament changes involving rockets, the Canopians also introduced their own new variant, the Theseus (Support) "Killshot". I have to say that this is one of the designs that firmly fall into the Do Not Want category for my tastes. Removing one of the Battle Claws, the Killshot also completely revamps the armament with nine rocket tubes spread across two launchers and a Micro Grenade Launcher on the left arm. The five-tube Rocket Launcher is a detachable pack mounted on the back and until it's dropped the Killshot is unable to perform Anti-'Mech attacks, although it can still hitch a ride on a friendly Omni. Setting aside the pros and cons of the rockets, the Micro Grenade Launcher - which was originally listed as the longer ranged Auto Grenade Launcher in Record Sheets 3085 Old Is The New New - is an anemic backup weapon once the expendible munitions are expended. Add in the poor accuracy and low punch of the rockets and I have to wonder just what the Canopians were thinking.

     The latest Tactical Operations errata does give the Killshot new capabilities, thanks to the introduction of smoke and incendiary rounds for Battle Armor Grenade Launchers. While potentially useful for screening purposes, this usefulness is limited due to a squad having to pick a single ammunition type prior to the scenario. That means that a Killshot squad has to decide between having the ability to produce smoke screens - that may or may not be effective - or retaining a modicum of firepower after its expended its Rocket Launchers. Personally, I find the incendiary grenades to be far more appealing, due to their ability to inflict what is effectively a single Inferno hit to every target within the area of effect, thus making it easier for friendly units to kill enemy Battle Armor with actual Inferno hits.

     The last Trinity variant was introduced in Experimental Technical Readout Liao and, as its name suggests, the Ying Long BC3 has been modified to install a Battle Armor C3 system. The introduction of this system forced the removal of a single point of armor, although even with this mass saving the Modular Weapon Mount can only squeeze in a 100kg or lighter weapon that requires just a single slot. Limited to armament such as the Light TAG or Machine Gun, the canon version opts for the David Light Gauss Rifle, either license-built or otherwise acquired. With a single squad currently being trialed by Warrior House Dai Da Chi, the BC3 variant is considered a far more viable design than the experimental Fa Shih that also appears in that Readout, however in my experience Battle Armor C3 units can prove less than impressive in actual play.

     The first significant combat use of the Trinity was during Operation Sovereign Justice, where it outperformed both the CCAF's own Fa Shih and the AFFS' standard Cavalier Battle Armor. The former is no doubt the reason that the Ying Long now outnumbers the Fa Shih in Capellan service, although some troops have found the lack of Magnetic Clamps to be bothersome. Of course, if some genius in the AFFS ever has the incredible idea of copying the IS Standard and mounting a Light Recoilless Rifle on the Cavalier, a lot of the Asterion and Theseus' advantage over that suit will be lost, but thanks to its Plasma Rifle there's little that the Davions can do with respect to the Ying Long.

     As noted above, the Trinity is a great city fighter, with the Ying Long in particular being a superb urban defender. Due to the peculiarities of the rules for dismounting Battle Armor, the Ying Long is also excellent for use in situations where you cannot safely drop troops without taking fire. Thanks to their Mimetic armor, Ying Long troopers enjoy a +3 targeting modifier for incoming attacks during the Turn that they dismount, which can easily mean the difference between destruction and survival. Obviously, where possible you want to dismount your troops in safe areas, but this is not always possible, and at the very least the Mimetic armor could provide a safety net for when the enemy fails to follow your battle plans.

     Apart from the Ying Long BC3 and Theseus (Support), all the Trinity suits pretty much operate in the same way. The Ying Long is better opposing enemy Battle Armor, and the standard Asterion and Theseus best used to counter conventional infantry, but overall the Trinity is well suited for a general purpose role. The Ying Long BC3 is an obvious specialist, but you may struggle to keep it alive or functional, given how easy it is for enemy units to swamp the C3 link with ECM, together with the relative fragility. The answer to the latter is to find yourself a good building to hide in, and in this environment the BC3 can be very effective, but it's still vulnerable to ECM. As for the Theseus (Support), its natural prey is enemy vehicles, in the hopes of a critical hit from the multitude of rocket impacts, but it's very much a one-trick pony, and once the rocket salvos are gone it has little to offer without some clever use of the optional grenade load outs.

     Some models of the Trinity also make for a decent suit to use for boarding actions, thanks to the dual Battle Claws and the use of weapons capable of inflicting Burst-Fire damage against infantry. The standard Asterion and Theseus, Theseus (Rocket) and Asterion (Upgrade) are all rated at 4 Marine Points, one more than the IS Standard when also armed with Burst-Fire capable weaponry.

     All in all, the Trinity is a decent suit, particularly now that it's received a helping hand from the Tactical Operations errata. Echoing the Technical Readout, I know some Capellan players bemoan the lack of Magnetic Clamps and so prefer the Fa Shih, particularly the Support variant introduced in Technical Readout 3085. For me, the two designs provide complementary features that allow for a powerful force to be tailored to the specific foe and/or environment, sometimes favoring the Fa Shih and other times its younger and more numerous sibling. Meanwhile, both the Canopians and Taurians have jumped straight into the Battle Armor game with a very effective unit, perhaps more so in the case of the Bulls and their variants. Personally, when playing Suns forces, I'm just thankful that I can field the likes of the Infiltrator Mk II and Grenadier, which is quite a complement for the Ying Long and its brethren.

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Fallen_Raven

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #1 on: 20 April 2012, 23:10:53 »
I love the 3 ground movement of the Trinity BAs. Not always as convenient as jumping, but being able to sneak through cities is handy too.
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #2 on: 20 April 2012, 23:40:01 »
These have 350 kg free for the MWM right? and the MRR weighs 250? so where does the rest go? And that second battle claw? Real bad idea

sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #3 on: 21 April 2012, 00:13:19 »
These have 350 kg free for the MWM right?

305kg

[quote and the MRR weighs 250? so where does the rest go?[/quote]

"...the Taurians' and Canopians' models also had to make do with less sophisticated armament in the form of a Medium Recoilless Rifle, which does at least possess an oversized magazine to double the number of shots..."

It means nothing in BattleTech tactical games, but can be important in ATOW games.

Quote
And that second battle claw? Real bad idea

Depends what you're using the suit for, as noted in the article it makes for a better marine boarding suit, and the suit doesn't really lose anything to pay the additional 15kg.

Maelwys

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #4 on: 21 April 2012, 01:26:02 »
     Exactly when the Taurians and Canopians began building their own Trinity variants is not certain. According to Technical Readout 3075, once all three models were ready, the two Periphery states suffered from a "few years" of delays at the hands of the Capellans before they became self-reliant, which would perhaps indicate they began production themselves in 3068 or later going by typical interpretations of "few". However, Handbook: Major Periphery States, which is apparently dated as 3067, shows the Taurians already building their version of the Trinity, and in addition names a different manufacturer to that in the Technical Readout, with the discrepancy as yet unexplained.

I'm pretty sure the HB:MPS is the latest source, which grants the Taurians production of their own suit by 3067, while the Canopians were still reliant on "Trinity" production from Detroit at that time. When exactly the Canopians manage to start producing the Theseus on their own is a good question.

Quote
     One issue that remains unexplained regarding the reason for the Trinity is what about the Capellan version of the Inner Sphere Standard? According to the write up for the Fa Shih, the CCAF fielded the IS Standard while developing their own suit, but the Standard then is all but forgotten after that point and could easily be mistaken as having never been used by the Capellans. The question then begs to be asked, if the CCAF needed to quickly introduce Battle Armor to supplement the Fa Shih, what was wrong with the Standard? And why didn't the Taurians and Canopians ask the same question?

Its a good question IMO. The Capellans have two companies producing the standard IS suit, Ceres and Hellespont. Unless they're exporting most of these suits and concentrating on the Fa Shih for Capellan units, it seems rather odd that there's that much of a call for a second suit. Unless the call is a polite fiction to save face for asking for funds to kickstart the production of the Trinity suits.

Quote
     For mobility, the Trinity designers decided to excuse the typical jump jets and instead upgraded the ground speed to 3 Movement Points. Not only does that save yet more mass for the weaponry, it makes the Trinity suits highly capable urban fighters, due to their ability to quickly move in and around buildings. Outside cities, the suits can struggle with certain terrain types that suits such as the IS Standard can easily jump over, and any terrain that slows the suit down will result in it dropping below the threshold to generate a Target Movement Modifier. Despite this potential vulnerability, the Trinity suits are well regarded by many players, although personally I have an issue with their weaponry configuration.

If it were just the Asterion and the Theseus, and they were being designed by the Periphery nations, I would wonder if the lack of Jump Jets were due to technological/training issues (though both were buying Standard suits, so jump training shouldn't have been too much of an issue). I wonder if was done in an attempt to make the mimetic armor more efficient.

Quote
     All three base models introduced in Combat Equipment and later repeated in Technical Readout 3075 come with a Modular Weapon Mount on the right shoulder.

     With no less than 305kg to install a weapon or other equipment on the Modular Weapon Mount, the Ying Long is only limited by having only two slots remaining, which means it cannot be equipped with weapons such as the Magshot or reloadable missile launchers larger than a single tube. The Asterion and Theseus could both be configured with some impressive missile armament, being able to mount no less than a four-shot SRM 3 launcher, but like the Ying Long, the originals stuck purely to gun power.

This is one of the annoyances. While admittedly there aren't very many more efficient choices than the MRR on the suit, the designers included a modular mount, so I would've liked to have seen the modular mount get some use. The Support PPC "Variant" from 3075 is a start, but it isn't really a variant. Its just someone utilizing the modular mount. I don't know if they did it that way to attempt to just give the Support PPC version to the Taurians, but it seems rather..odd.


Quote
     Meanwhile, the Canopians produced a true variant, in the form of the Theseus (Rocket Launcher). Of questionable value, in my opinion, this variant reduces the payload of the Modular Weapon Mount so that it can wield a fixed three-tube Rocket Launcher on the right arm. Incorrectly stated as three separate single-tube launchers in Technical Readout 3075, this is actually impossible as per the construction rules in Technical Manual, which limits each location to a single 'Mech-scale weapon. Personally, the (very) few times I've used or fought the variant, I've not found the rockets to be worth the loss of the Medium Recoilless Rifle for the Light version - which again has a double-sized magazine - but some players do like the extra range of the rockets, even if they are one-shot, and the flavor value cannot be discounted.

     Continuing their track record of even more drastic armament changes involving rockets, the Canopians also introduced their own new variant, the Theseus (Support) "Killshot". I have to say that this is one of the designs that firmly fall into the Do Not Want category for my tastes. Removing one of the Battle Claws, the Killshot also completely revamps the armament with nine rocket tubes spread across two launchers and a Micro Grenade Launcher on the left arm. The five-tube Rocket Launcher is a detachable pack mounted on the back and until it's dropped the Killshot is unable to perform Anti-'Mech attacks, although it can still hitch a ride on a friendly Omni. Setting aside the pros and cons of the rockets, the Micro Grenade Launcher - which was originally listed as the longer ranged Auto Grenade Launcher in Record Sheets 3085 Old Is The New New - is an anemic backup weapon once the expendible munitions are expended. Add in the poor accuracy and low punch of the rockets and I have to wonder just what the Canopians were thinking.

Both designs are oddities, though I have to wonder if the weapon selection is due to the efforts of the Blakists. TR3075 states that the Theseus is made on Royal Foxx, which seems to be under Blakist control until 3075 (How exactly this works, I don't know. You'd think something so important would be mentioned in the writeup in 3075...). This may have limited the chances to upgrade the Theseus, with variants simply starting out as people bolting Rocket Launchers on the suits.

One good use of them is critseeking. Shoot enough of the rockets off and you might get lucky enough to get in some head hits or exploit holes in their armor. They're not as good as SRMs, but you might surprise your opponent who is hoping to weather a few MRR shots.

Maelwys

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #5 on: 21 April 2012, 04:59:54 »
"...the Taurians' and Canopians' models also had to make do with less sophisticated armament in the form of a Medium Recoilless Rifle, which does at least possess an oversized magazine to double the number of shots..."

Does that ammo actually show up anyplace other than the original Combat Equipment writeup?

Quote
Depends what you're using the suit for, as noted in the article it makes for a better marine boarding suit, and the suit doesn't really lose anything to pay the additional 15kg.

About the only loss is the ability to mount a Heavy Recoilless Rifle, but you'd have to give up both Battle Claws to do that. The 15kg just isn't that big of a loss. The unused 55kg (assuming the 3075 stats are right, and the MRR doesn't have extra ammo) is really the killer.

sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #6 on: 21 April 2012, 09:30:35 »
Does that ammo actually show up anyplace other than the original Combat Equipment writeup?

About the only loss is the ability to mount a Heavy Recoilless Rifle, but you'd have to give up both Battle Claws to do that. The 15kg just isn't that big of a loss. The unused 55kg (assuming the 3075 stats are right, and the MRR doesn't have extra ammo) is really the killer.


See TRO3075 errata here.

Maelwys

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #7 on: 21 April 2012, 13:55:17 »
Ah, I missed that. Then again, there was so much errata with regards to 3075 its not surprising :)

The extra ammo is nice. Its good to see that there isn't as much space wasted as it first appears.

Its a shame that the Theseus (RL) got changed from 3 RL1 to 1 RL3. IIRC that's going to cut down on the amount of locations that are hit, and it going to make it a "one-shot and gone" instead of letting you stagger the use.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #8 on: 21 April 2012, 23:59:58 »
It always bugged me the "three-in-one" thing... like we need the silly fluff to consider a design three nations came together to make... smh

I do wish they would explain whether it came from one of the CCAF's three design suits, which were cut down to the one Fa Shih. That would explain the quick R&D.

I imagine the CCAF delegated their IS-Standards to sales and Home Guard. IIRC, the Taurians were also producing the IS-Standard? If so, I wonder why they don't build an Advanced Armor variant.

Anyone know if the Light or Heavy mortar would fit on the Austerion's MWM?
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sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #9 on: 22 April 2012, 00:54:32 »
IIRC, the Taurians were also producing the IS-Standard? If so, I wonder why they don't build an Advanced Armor variant.

As of HB: MPS, the only suit the Taurians build is the Asterion.

Quote
Anyone know if the Light or Heavy mortar would fit on the Austerion's MWM?

It can fit the Light Mortar, but doesn't have the payload for the Heavy.


Ian Sharpe

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #10 on: 22 April 2012, 02:30:08 »
Not a huge fan of the Trinity suits as line BA, but I will say I appreciate the different looks each suit has. 

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #11 on: 22 April 2012, 03:07:26 »
Always liked the ability the Recoilless gave them, and as they are the cheapest BA and perhaps will be one of the most available when the Cappies dump their Periphery versions a bit later.  I wonder at the MWM . . . I understand its utility, but just like every mech does not need to be a Omni, does every suit need to have a MWM?  Especially when we do not see them switching things up too often?
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #12 on: 22 April 2012, 03:33:56 »
There is more reason for every suit to be an omni than there is for 'Mechs. For one thing there is no associated advanced gyro. Since electronics were added to available equipment there are a lot of options for a MWM. Especially on a suit with so much free space. That you don't see more has more to do with a lack of public cry for Record Sheets: MWM Battle Armor Variants. When you have a suit with multiple points (or infinite ones) like a Kobold or Fenrir the number of sheets gets huge.

Maelwys

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #13 on: 22 April 2012, 03:48:14 »
While I agree that the modular mount isn't utilized very well, and could conceivably be dropped, I like the idea of having a modular mount. It (theoretically) allows the design to keep up with the times. If something comes along that changes the game (like the AP GR did for the Clans) then the Trinity suits can (again, theoretically) utilize it without having to completely redesign the suit.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #14 on: 22 April 2012, 06:16:59 »
Absolutely agreed.  I'm pretty fond of the Trinity suits overall, although I lean toward the Theseus or Ying Long for looks.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #15 on: 22 April 2012, 06:36:34 »
Agreed on all sentiments about the MWM. The main strength of the MWM beyond enticing TPTB to include more variants in TRO (and disappointing everyone when they don't) is clearly RPG usage.

Moonsword, that's strike 2 within a single day! Clearly, the Asterion is the sexiest of the three!!

Kidding aside, it's only fair that since sillybrit did publish my comment on the Theseus miniature I should point out that the Asterion is one of the most astoundingly beautiful BA miniatures thus far produced by IWM. The Camospecs sample can only convey the fine detail, but what really makes this one stand out is its beautiful scale; it works out beautifully even when put next to most older, small-sized sculpts.

The Ying Long has a strange/unnatural pose, the Theseus is grotesquely oversized, so while aesthetics are always a matter of taste at least as far as the miniature is concerned, the Asterion comes out ahead quite objectively speaking. :)
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Moonsword

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #16 on: 22 April 2012, 07:26:23 »
Hmm.  Looking at those, I'm inclined to agree on the minis.  And maybe it is on the same tier in the art, but the minis are what really sell the horns.

Maelwys

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #17 on: 22 April 2012, 13:15:07 »
So do people consider the Support PPC Asterion to be, well, Asterion only, or are they willing to give the Theseus the weapons loadout?

Demos

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #18 on: 22 April 2012, 13:29:10 »
IMHO Asterion only, as each nation developed their unique variants...

It's nice BA, especially the Liao version with mimetic armor and the plasma rifle (which could havoc other BAs with the new rules).
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Maelwys

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #19 on: 22 April 2012, 16:06:05 »
IMHO Asterion only, as each nation developed their unique variants...

Sure, but its not really a variant. Its utilizing the MWM to make a weapons swap. I'm not talking about the Advanced version, just the basic Asterion with a Support PPC.

Oh well, I guess it could be fluffed as the Canopians not wanting the extra range for loss of AI ability or something.

Isanova

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #20 on: 22 April 2012, 18:21:20 »
What do you think is the better suit, the Yin Long with it's Mimetic Armor, or the Asterion (U) with it's Advanced Armor and integrated MG?

If you were to give one integrated something to make the Theseus more unique, what would it be? BA-Myomer? (Is that clan-only?)
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sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Trinity Battle Armor
« Reply #21 on: 22 April 2012, 20:11:36 »
What do you think is the better suit, the Yin Long with it's Mimetic Armor, or the Asterion (U) with it's Advanced Armor and integrated MG?

[Kosh]Yes[/Kosh]

It's horses for courses. If you want a suit that is excellent at killing enemy Battle Armor quickly, has greater survivability if offloaded under enemy fire or in other circumstances where the suit can't use its mobility to dodge enemy fire, and has a 300kg/2 slot modular payload then the Ying Long is better.

However, if you want a suit that is better against enemy infantry or when performing melee attacks, and has a 250kg/3 slot modular payload then the Asterion (Upgrade) is better.

Quote
If you were to give one integrated something to make the Theseus more unique, what would it be? BA-Myomer? (Is that clan-only?)

I'd suggest that the Theseus already has a unique feature: Rocket Launchers. A signature feature doesn't have to be highly effective or even high tech to be a signature.

 

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