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Author Topic: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)  (Read 11571 times)

Revanche

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The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« on: 19 May 2012, 18:35:53 »
 What does it take to build a 'Mech factory? How long does it take? How much does it cost? How would it run? What would it take to get an abandoned industrial facility restarted? How would a garage shop differ from one of those legendary fully-automated Star League megaplexes? How can I design my own in-universe product? Can my colony build its own weapons of war? These are questions BattleTech fans have been requesting time and again over the nearly three decades of this long-lasting game, using speculation to provide their answers, even as the previous barrier of economics suggested no hard, concrete rules would ever be possible. However, now there is some guidance that will enable the most detail-minded roleplayer the chance to build a star-spanning corporation, from refining the base components of fuel, to building the weapon components on his self-designed mobile behemoth, to assembling it in his end-line BattleMech factory, as well as allowing the tabletop gamer to quickly develop a suitable complex for which to mount a defense against those unidentified raiders.

The Industrial Ruleset does all the above and more:
 
  • Establishes the differences in economic scale between a very small cottage-industry or garage shop and the standard military industries that fuel the Inner Sphere's armies
  • Describes the individual processes (Blocks) that make up any production line and who operates them
  • Expands upon the Advanced Building Rules, to allow for an additional structure type, Refinery, and fits production lines into the various existing structures
  • Describes the process of designing and getting approved a working product, including the pitfalls of sending your mistakes to the production line
  • How to modify an existing line, to allow for new products, model variants and even captured equipment
  • Introduces the fluid capabilities of a fully-equipped tool-&-die shop
  • Discusses how to find someone to build your line, sell you their production equipment and how to purchase or lease your own land
  • Explains maintenance, repair, salvage and overtime
  • Introduces quality assurance, mothballing and moving your factory away from the front
  • Explains line expansions and upgrades
  • Includes a facility worksheet
Files:
New in the latest version:

  • v1207.14: acknowledgements added, identified errors corrected, rewording of Quirk generation, requested formula breakouts in the text and legal statement added
  • v1206.19: large amount of re-formatting, combined worksheet with rules file, changed DropShip ground based construction requirement; additional changes noted in below post (June 20)
  • v1205.20: re-formatted table of contents file and merged it with the main file; added Quick Generation to Factory Design rules; fixed formatting issues
  • v1205.19: initial public release
« Last Edit: 15 July 2012, 08:24:07 by Revanche »

Revanche

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Re: Industrial Rules
« Reply #1 on: 19 May 2012, 18:41:24 »
Okay, I've been working on this for years. Except for very select individuals, this is its first public release.

Other than just providing it to those that are interested in using it, I'm open to the following changes/discussions:

  • Value changes: most of these have been brainstormed, first conceptual ideas. The numbers may be off; I'm sure they can be improved
  • Clarification: what does this need? I feel they do a good job explaining how a factory is built, how it designs and produces its product, but maybe that's because I've been in it too deep.
  • Expansion: I could see where some might want to build upon this and make it a campaign ruleset in itself. Additional rules for expanding it are sought. The PDF forms are clearly rough, so any help with forms, formatting, graphics, etc. would be appreciated.
- Rev

Taron Storm

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #2 on: 19 May 2012, 21:25:02 »
Tagged.  I remember finding parts of this on Sarna.  I started playing with it then.  Gotta see where you have taken it to. (Must read more  >:D )

CloaknDagger

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #3 on: 19 May 2012, 22:15:46 »
What about going from IS to Clan tech? What's the magic they use?

Revanche

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #4 on: 19 May 2012, 22:36:32 »
Tagged.  I remember finding parts of this on Sarna.  I started playing with it then.  Gotta see where you have taken it to. (Must read more  >:D )

Wow! Great memory. I never advertised them there (hidden on a subpage before I moved them to my personal wiki). I think you'll find them much more robust now, having been bounced off a lot more people since then.

What about going from IS to Clan tech? What's the magic they use?

As you've apparently discovered, I never specifically call out Clan tech, but it is represented via the Tech Level of the culture. I'll write it into the rules but for now it'd be a simple statement (I'd think) that IS Blocks cannot be upgraded to Clan tech. Instead, Clan Blocks would have to be brought from the Home Worlds, unless there are canon examples of Clan industrial machinery being built (rather than installed) in situ.

Hope that helps,
Rev
« Last Edit: 20 May 2012, 15:26:32 by Revanche »

BritMech

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #5 on: 19 May 2012, 23:06:51 »
The second link has an error in it. There is an http:// stuck on the end.

Revanche

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #6 on: 20 May 2012, 00:11:57 »
Thanks, BritMech. It should work now.

vidar

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #7 on: 20 May 2012, 11:31:24 »
Just glanced over, looks good I am going to have to try a full scale build with it to if everthing holds together.

Revanche

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #8 on: 20 May 2012, 12:23:16 »
Vidar, post what you come up with here. I want to create a chapter of plug-n-play industries, but my imagination can only create so many unique facilities. I'd appreciate being able to use your's.

Revanche

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #9 on: 20 May 2012, 15:28:35 »
Updated the ruleset today. The Table of Contents are now cleaner and a part of the main file; I've added Quick Generation directions to Factory design.

- Rev

boilerman

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #10 on: 23 May 2012, 00:40:03 »
Glad to see you kept at it Revanche.  I'm going to have to give this a thorough  read through.   O0
Avatar by Wombat. Thanks Wombat!

Siden Pryde

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #11 on: 23 May 2012, 01:00:10 »
Only had a chance for a quick look through so far, but it looks good.  O0

Red Pins

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #12 on: 23 May 2012, 02:02:32 »
Squee!  A new fan project!  Must post this one in the 'List of battletech fanbooks' thread!
...Visit the Legacy Cluster...
The New Clans:Volume One
Clan Devil Wasp * Clan Carnoraptor * Clan Frost Ape * Clan Surf Dragon * Clan Tundra Leopard
Now with MORE GROGNARD!  ...I think I'm done.  I've played long enough to earn a pension, fer cryin' out loud!  IlClan and out in <REDACTED>!
Glitter - the herpes of the craft supply world.

BritMech

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #13 on: 23 May 2012, 04:24:57 »
Out of curiosity, are there any calculations or instances showing the GDP of a planet, or a House/Clan region?

Revanche

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #14 on: 23 May 2012, 06:59:17 »
Glad to see you kept at it Revanche.  I'm going to have to give this a thorough  read through.   O0

Thanks, Boilerman. You should check out p. 39. Your involvement back 'in the day' was critical and I still refer to your own handbook of essays for my own campaign. Good to see you, buddy.

Squee!  A new fan project!  Must post this one in the 'List of battletech fanbooks' thread!

Thanks! Great idea.

Out of curiosity, are there any calculations or instances showing the GDP of a planet, or a House/Clan region?

In my work? No. I'm purposefully avoiding macroeconomics. I want to say that some FASA material might have addressed it maybe once. Cray would know best.

BritMech

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #15 on: 23 May 2012, 07:24:05 »
In my work? No. I'm purposefully avoiding macroeconomics. I want to say that some FASA material might have addressed it maybe once. Cray would know best.

I just meant in general. It would be good to know that the constructions I put together aren't 5 times the planetary output of the most industrious system.

Revanche

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #16 on: 23 May 2012, 07:41:19 »
Aaaah.  I see.  Sorry, no. Unfortunately I don't feel I have enough knowledge of the very vague IS economics to generate any such test, though I can definitely understand why'd it be of concern to a diligent campaigner.

My only advice would be to be your own expert on the planet and realm you choose to locate your facility (if you do place it all in one location).  It's very much a 'what best works for your campaign' issue.

- Rev
« Last Edit: 17 June 2012, 19:00:38 by Revanche »

guardiandashi

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #17 on: 23 May 2012, 12:55:50 »
I am reading through the rules doc and I found a nitpick item.
pg 11 note 7 under facility dimensions  it states that all dropships over 52,000 tons are required to be built in orbit.
this is only true if the dropship in question (the finished product) is not capable of at least 3/5 thrust  now I know all the standard listed dropships (behemoth) fall into that category, but it is not actually a hard and fast rule, as there is no inherant reason you couldn't design a behomoth 2 or monster class dropship that is at least 3/5 thrust.

Jackmc

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #18 on: 23 May 2012, 13:08:06 »
I just meant in general. It would be good to know that the constructions I put together aren't 5 times the planetary output of the most industrious system.

You're not going to find anything that's not been retconned away.  Quite a while back an offical decision was made to not nail down alot of the produciton and economic info in order to give both the plaers and writers/developers freedom to manuver.

So you're going to have to manually set the GPD to your own taste and work form there.


-Jackmc


BritMech

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #19 on: 23 May 2012, 13:30:10 »
I am reading through the rules doc and I found a nitpick item.
pg 11 note 7 under facility dimensions  it states that all dropships over 52,000 tons are required to be built in orbit.
this is only true if the dropship in question (the finished product) is not capable of at least 3/5 thrust  now I know all the standard listed dropships (behemoth) fall into that category, but it is not actually a hard and fast rule, as there is no inherant reason you couldn't design a behomoth 2 or monster class dropship that is at least 3/5 thrust.

True, I usually make all mine a 3/5 minimum. Really it should be that all dropships should be built in orbit when the local gravity bars them from taking off. A 3/5 can get stuck on a higher gravity planet, whilst even a 2/3 can take off from a lower gravity one.

Jackmc

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #20 on: 23 May 2012, 15:38:26 »
True, I usually make all mine a 3/5 minimum. Really it should be that all dropships should be built in orbit when the local gravity bars them from taking off. A 3/5 can get stuck on a higher gravity planet, whilst even a 2/3 can take off from a lower gravity one.

Since we're firmly in house rules territory already, the weight limit should simply be stricken altogether.  There's nothing that says a newly-built ship has to make its maiden flight fully laddened.  Frex, an empty Behemoth will pull almost 4 g's on takeoff without going into overthrust.

Likewise, nothing says a ship has to be built on a 1G planet.  Even the Behemoth has landing gear, and when  iasked why Cray said it was for operations at sub 1-g sites.

-Jackmc


Revanche

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #21 on: 23 May 2012, 22:37:45 »
I think you two make valid points.

Unfortunately, I don't have my original notes as to my philosophy as to why some had to be built in space...it /might/ have been the weight issue only (52,000 tons seems an odd delineation point), but I also wanted to create an additional need for orbital manufacturing (maybe as a way to explain the lesser numbers of larger DropShips due to increased costs from mandatory orbital construction).

I'm going to review my rules (look for the mention of 52,000 tons in them) and then see what effect changing that would have on other facility aspects. I like the fall-back idea of making anything with less than 3/5 restricted to orbital development.

I'll get back to you and present my arguments, if any.

Thanks for weighing in.

- Rev



guardiandashi

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #22 on: 23 May 2012, 23:32:40 »
I think it is because that is the mass of the mammoth the biggest standard dropship design that has the 3/5 thrust needed to land and take off

Revanche

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #23 on: 23 May 2012, 23:54:01 »
I think it is because that is the mass of the mammoth the biggest standard dropship design that has the 3/5 thrust needed to land and take off

Quick look at Sarna shows you're right.

So we agree then mandatory orbital construction should be based on thrust (less than 3/5), rather than weight? Any reason it should remain weight?

Jackmc

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #24 on: 24 May 2012, 00:17:10 »
52,000 tons seems an odd delineation point

52K is the mass of the Mammoth, the largest canonical dropship allowed to takeoff from a 1G world under the current rules.  Note that this distinction is a result of the only dropship larger than a Mammoth, the Behemoth, having a thrust curve that under the rules does not allow it to take off from a 1G world.  Any dropper above 52K can rules-legally take off from a 1G world as long as its thrust curve is 3/5 or greater.

-Jackmc


BritMech

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #25 on: 24 May 2012, 00:18:51 »
Quick look at Sarna shows you're right.

So we agree then mandatory orbital construction should be based on thrust (less than 3/5), rather than weight? Any reason it should remain weight?

Well the whole reason is that 3ST is needed to escape the planet, assuming 1g. You need a full Safe Thrust point past 1g, which is 2ST. If the gravity of the planet is 1.5g, then the orbital construction for that world is anything less than 5/8.

If you want to mention any of this when discussing orbital construction, it would be best as an advisory such as "Don't forget, any DropShip constructed on the planet needs to have enough thrust to break atmosphere. If it cannot do this, it will need to be constructed in orbit."

Jackmc

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #26 on: 24 May 2012, 00:27:51 »
So we agree then mandatory orbital construction should be based on thrust (less than 3/5), rather than weight? Any reason it should remain weight?

Actually, I don't think there should be mandatory orbital construction for droppers unless they are being built with the non-atmospheric vehicle trait or have an empty weight that produces a thrust curve worse than 3/5.

Realistically, you're not going to be seeing 100,000 ton Deathstars, you're going to be seeing cargo craft and those weigh only a tiny fraction of their max take off weight when empty.  Frex, under realistic thrust calcs, a Behemoth with it's payload bays empty, but still carrying all it's small craft, fuel and ship's stores, has a 7/11 thrust curve.     


-Jackmc


guardiandashi

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #27 on: 24 May 2012, 01:38:38 »
additionally (and along the same line) the current takeoff rules are IMO an unrealistic abstraction claiming you need a full 0.5g of safe thrust beyond local gravity in  order to take off it might be more efficient to have that thrust margin but realistically a dropship with 1.01g worth of acceleration (assuming effectively unlimited fuel) would eventually be able to climb to orbit and beyond, its just that the fuel and time needed would be considerably more than what a craft with a higher thrust rating would require

its like the "how long would it take a junpship with its .1g acceleration station keeping drive take to fly across a solar system, or to fly from the jump point to earth orbit? for instance, and it works out that its roughly 3x as long? so if it takes a dropship @ 1g 7 days, it would take the jumpship at 0.1 g ~3 weeks (if I remember the math right)

Revanche

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #28 on: 24 May 2012, 19:52:30 »
Actually, I don't think there should be mandatory orbital construction for droppers unless they are being built with the non-atmospheric vehicle trait or have an empty weight that produces a thrust curve worse than 3/5.

Yeah, I think that's where we're at now: thrust, not weight, plus taking into account the non-atmospheric quirk. I'll start working on the phrasing here shortly.

Anyone find the worksheet helpful?

Minerva

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Re: The Industrial Tycoons Handbook (Industrial Rules)
« Reply #29 on: 25 May 2012, 05:48:22 »
Out of curiosity, are there any calculations or instances showing the GDP of a planet, or a House/Clan region?

GDP can be estimated with few rules of thumb.

Usually total personal income is anything between 40% to 60% of total GDP of realm. Each realm has number of workers and number of supported persons (those not working for one reason or another).  Assuming low unemployment this can be 1:1 but with gray haired society (or depressed economy) it can easily be 1:1,2.

We make simplifying assumption that 60% of realms money is income and society has support relation of 1 : 1,2. We assume that monthly average salary of realm is 1000 C-Bills.

Step 1) Calculate annual average income
12 months * 1000 C-bills as monthly average income is 12,000 C-Bills a year as income.

Step 2) Calculate effect of relationship between supporting workers and unsupporting population.

( 1 / (1 + 1,2) ) * 12,000 = 5454,55 C-Bills

Step 3) Calculate effect of share of total income as part of GDP.

( 100 / 60 ) * 5454,55 = 9090,91 C-bills / per annum as GDP per capita.

Step 4) Insert population of realm

Assume 10,000,000 inhabitants:

Total GDP is 90 909 090 909,090 C-Bills for this realm of 10 million inhabitants.

It is 90,9 billion C-Bills per year.

Now all you need to do is insert the average salaries and population sizes (with few necessary assumptions) of the different realms to see how it all looks...

 

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