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Author Topic: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird  (Read 7974 times)

Trace Coburn

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Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« on: 18 February 2011, 22:15:30 »
THB-D36 Thunderbird - 100t, AT2
Originally posted 23 Mar. 2005.

  All proposed fan-variants should be posted in the corresponding "FotW Workshop" thread.


  Another slightly doofy-looking AT2 design under a copyright cloud, the Thunderbird had no fluff that I could find as of this column's original run, but I was told that it's fielded by both the CapCon and the TC.  I wonder if it's a native Taurian design or a Capellan one; either way, to my eyes it looks like a response to the Stuka much in the vein of the movie Split Second:
  Det. Stone: "Did you see him?"
  Det. Durkin: "'Him'?  That wasn't a 'him', that was a [DELETED] 'IT'!  WE NEED BIGGER GUNS, STONE!"
  ...
  Durkin: "So what do we do now?"
  Stone: "Now... we get bigger guns."
  Durkin: "Hallelujah."  }:)

  At 5/8 with the customary five tons of gas, the Thunderbird is about as mobile as any hundred-tonner gets in level-1 play.  It carries a respectable fourteen tons of armour, laid out 80/52/40 - not quite as good as it could be, but pretty damn' tough; the stern is still vulnerable to ML TACs, but the nose will shake off a large laser without serious ill-effect.  The armament is where it's at, though, and it's why I say it's meant to counter the Stuka: LRM-20s in each wing, with twelve salvoes per launchers; twin MLs aft; single large and medium lasers in both wings and the nose; all of that coupled to twenty-five heat-sinks.  :o  Now, you remember how I liked the Transgressor because it had good turning performance, a nasty medium- and short-range energy battery and great heat efficiency?  The Thunderbird trades the agility for a heavy missile battery and keeps the medium-to-short-range heat-efficiency, even with most guns ablazin'.  That said, it would probably do better in the fire-support and attack roles than any other, and the firing brackets are pretty explicit: LRMs at Long range, LLs at Medium, two LLs and all three MLs at Short.

  Thunderbirds should not try to turn-and-burn with anything lighter; they'll get eaten alive.  Instead, they should loiter on the fringes of the fight and pour missiles and/or laser-fire down on targets of opportunity in support of their dogfighters, or avoid the fight altogether and go hunting enemy capital assets.  (A full squadron boasts two 7-Capital LRM bays and three 5-Capital LL bays, which is enough to bring a tear to the eye of anything available in the 3025 era.)  Supporting these missile-platforms with an escort squadron or two is simple common-sense, but the reminder can't hurt... and as always, those who forget the mantras will die against those who live them;)
  There is one exception to the 'no fighter v. fighter' rule, though: Stukas.  The Stuka has only one LRM-20 to the T-bird's two, meaning that the early exchanges are rather unlikely to favour the Davionists; at Medium range, the Stuka has more LLs, but after a couple of rounds will have to leave some of them out to control its heat burden, while the T-bird's three LLs will run constantly and coolly; at Short range, the Stuka's SRMs and single forward ML can't crit-seek quite as well as the T-bird's three MLs.  Preferably, the T-birds should 'shoot in' a squadron of Transgressors or the broadly similar Eagles to mix it up once the Stukas are properly tenderised, but if you're keen to see who would win a turning-fight between two heavily-armed sloths, the Thunderbird is about your best chance to do it successfully.  ;D

  On the defensive end of things, what you want are lots and lots of dogfighters and interceptors, preferably with ample fire-support of their own.  The LLs carried on a Corsair, Transgressor or Stingray can crit a Thunderbird's wings and potentially knock out one or both of those [DELETED] LRM-launchers that make the T-bird so dangerous; Sparrowhawks, Sholagars and Cheetahs can stern-convert on the big boys and peck away, knowing that their MLs can threshold the stern armour and cause potentially crippling damage even if they get blown away by the twin-ML tail-mount.  :-X  And of course, a little 'softening up' from friendly missile-platforms never hurts (you).  ;D

  [VARIANT PROPOSAL(S) REDACTED] All proposed fan-variants - including my own - belong in the corresponding "FotW Workshop" thread: http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=1954.0.html

  Be advised: the attached .txt transcripts of previous runs of this thread contain numerous reader-proposals for variants.  I'll try to change those out for 'sanitised' versions of those threads when I can, but I can't promise it'll be soon - that's a lot of ground to cover.  ;)

Trace Coburn

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Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird ('75 Update)
« Reply #1 on: 18 February 2011, 22:17:15 »
THB-D36 Thunderbird – TRO3075
Originally posted 09 Jul. 2008.

  Produced by the partnership of the Lockheed Corporation of Gibbs and Donegal's CBM Aerospace, the Thunderbird first entered service with the LCAF in 2480 and quickly became not only the workhorse of the Lyran heavy fighter arm, but was cloned by other manufacturers across the Inner Sphere soon after the formation of the Star League.  (These secondary manufacturers include Wangker Aerospace on Axton, once a Hegemony world but now in FedSuns hands, and Perdition's Pinard Protectorate, presumably some time after the Concordat got its 'freedom' from the Star League.  As an aside: TPTB have explained the Taurian licence to build Seydlitz, but one wonders when the heck they'll finally come clean about the TC's ability to get their hands on all this other Lyran hardware?  ???)  Despite its 'ungainly' appearance and perhaps because of its relatively simple technology, it enjoyed constant production in its original form throughout the ensuing centuries, being made so widely and in such large numbers that it can be found in virtually every starfighter arm in known space, serving as an air-to-mud attacker and a DropShip escort/killer.

  A lot of what could be said about the original TRB-D36 was said during the original FotW runs (/me points upwards).  Therefore, I'll concentrate this examination on the variants described in the fluff of TRO3075.

  Though the baseline T-bird was pretty hellacious in its own right, there were some who thought it could be even nastier.  Elite formations within both the LCAF and the SLDF agreed, and to meet the demands, Lockheed/CBM developed and fielded the TRB-D46.

Class/Model/Name:  Thunderbird TRB-D46 [speculative]
Mass:              100 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  300 Fusion                                                19.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 5
      Maximum Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity: 10                                                  .00
Total Heat Sinks:    25 Double                                          15.00
Fuel:                                                                    6.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Standard  (304 total armor pts)                            19.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                111
   Left/Right Wings:                  73/73
   Aft:                                  47

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 ER Large Laser           Nose         8      8      8     --   12      5.00
1 ER Large Laser           RW           8      8      8     --   12      5.00
1 ER Large Laser           LW           8      8      8     --   12      5.00
1 Medium Laser             RW           5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             LW           5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 LRM 15+ArtIV             RW          12     12     12     --    5      8.00
1 LRM 15+ArtIV             LW          12     12     12     --    5      8.00
  Ammo (LRM 15) 24         ---                                           3.00
1 Medium Laser             Aft          5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             Aft          5     --     --     --    3      1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 58    100.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00


  Yes, folks, that armour total is correct (though the layout is guesswork): after making all the other changes, they added five tons of the stuff to an already well-protected spaceframe.  (I said in the original column's Workshop section that it was pretty easy to turn the T-bird into a proto-Hydaspes.  I wouldn't bet against the Clans' having done exactly that.  :o)  This sucker is a Long-range terror - leaving out the self-defence MLs results in absolutely no heat-deficit, and you can pound the hell out of an opponent at extended distances pretty much forever (or as long as your ammo and/or gas last).  As an attack-craft or a fire-support platofrm, this bird has few equals in the pre-Clan era, and when used in the later role, any ASF trying to make an 'end run' around the dogfighters to smack down the support platforms first  could well be biting off more than it can chew.  #P
  Bad news: despite hopes for "eventual widespread deployment" the -D46 came so late in the Star League's lifetime that only two hundred were completed before The Fall, and the ensuing shortages of advanced components - both during the Coup and in the Succession Wars era - forced production to revert back to the 'standard' -D36 model.  :(
  Good news: the foundtech rennaissance meant that Lockheed/CBM restarted production of TRB-D46s in 3055.  You're looking at the better part of 7.5M C-bills per article, but I'd say it's worth every cent.  }:)

  More was to follow.  Pinard Protectorates came out with their own retooled T-bird, the -D50, which severely cuts back on the foundtech needed to build its birds but does so by using a weapons package that's a little... odd compared to the baseline baseline.

Class/Model/Name:  Thunderbird TRB-D50 [speculative]
Mass:              100 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  300 Fusion                                                19.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 5
      Maximum Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity: 10                                                  .00
Total Heat Sinks:    34 Single                                          24.00
Fuel:                                                                    5.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminium  (250 total armor pts)                     14.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                 86
   Left/Right Wings:                  56/56
   Aft:                                  52

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Large Laser              Nose         8      8     --     --    8      5.00
1 Autocannon/10            Nose        10     10     --     --    3     12.00
  Ammo (AC/10) 20          ---                                           2.00
1 Large Laser              RW           8      8     --     --    8      5.00
1 Large Laser              LW           8      8     --     --    8      5.00
1 Medium Laser             RW           5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             LW           5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             RW           5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             LW           5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             Aft          5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             Aft          5     --     --     --    3      1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 45    100.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00


  A medium-range slugger compared to the 'all-range pain' of the -D36, the -D50 is cheap and easy to make and maintain with baseline technologies (FAA aside), and if some sneaky beggar gets his hands on AP special munitions for that AC/10, things could get interesting for any mud-bug who gets caught in front of one of these.  It's not quite an alpha-baby, but you can Strafe without buying yourself a Control Roll, and that much firepower is going to rattle anybody's cage.  I'm not convinced that giving away the LRMs was a good idea, but there should be enough standard -D36s in the TDF that you could team them with -D50s and provide the necessary support without excessive difficulty.

  As the original manufacturer, it's only fitting that Lockheed/CBM brings us the other T-bird variant, brand new as of 3074.  In accordance with good practice, they started with a solid base (the fearsome TRB-D46) and cranked up the dials, producing the TRB-D56.

Class/Model/Name:  Thunderbird TRB-D56 [speculative]
Mass:              100 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  300 XL Fusion                                              9.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 5
      Maximum Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity: 10                                                  .00
Total Heat Sinks:    20 Double                                          10.00
Fuel:                                                                    6.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminium  (313 total armor pts)                     17.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                113
   Left/Right Wings:                  72/72
   Aft:                                  56

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Ultra AC/10              Nose        15     15     --     --    8     13.00
  Ammo (Ult AC/10) 20      ---                                           2.00
1 Heavy PPC (TW)*          Nose        15     15     --     --   15     10.00
1 ER Medium Laser          RW           5      5     --     --    5      1.00
1 ER Medium Laser          LW           5      5     --     --    5      1.00
1 LRM 20+ArtIV             RW          16     16     16     --    6     11.00
1 LRM 20+ArtIV             LW          16     16     16     --    6     11.00
  Ammo (LRM 20) 24         ---                                           4.00
1 ER Small Laser           Aft          3     --     --     --    2       .50
1 ER Small Laser           Aft          3     --     --     --    2       .50
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 49    100.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00


  Um.  Well, the -D56 should be really good at what the fluff says Lockheed/CBM designed it for - Dropper-chopping and heavy-fighter busting, neither being insignificant concerns in the era of Clan OmniFighters and WoB 'pocket WarShips' - as long as it stays at Long or Medium range and watches its weapon-mix.  A squadron's worth should rip hell out of most 'Ships, and once the ammo is depleted its remaining energy armament means it can RTB with a certain degree of impunity.  That said, I'm not a fan of ERSLs on starfighters, much less as a bird's only tail-guns in the age of XLFEs and ferro-aluminium armour, and in a similar vein the Ultra-10 doesn't really strike me as a 'super-decisive' weapon the way an HPPC, Gauss rifle or Ultra-20 might be.

  [VARIANT PROPOSAL(S) REDACTED] All proposed fan-variants - including my own - belong in the corresponding "FotW Workshop" thread: http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=XXXXX.0.html

Trace Coburn

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Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird (KLONDIKE Update)
« Reply #2 on: 18 February 2011, 22:19:26 »
Gold Strike Package
THB-D36b Royal Thunderbird – Operation KLONDIKE
Originally posted 09 Jun. 2010.

Quote from: Historical: Operation KLONDIKE, p.160
Aerospace Fighters
Upgrades for the SLDF’s aerospace forces came in the latter half of the 28th century, though with much reduced funding compared to what the Star League dedicated to upgrading the ’Mech service. The program was interrupted by Amaris’ coup, shutting down the SLDF’s access to most of its key production facilities. As the Amaris Civil War progressed, and the SLDF’s losses mounted, Kerensky turned to suppliers the Star League hadn’t typically utilized.

Quote from: Historical: Operation KLONDIKE, p.161
THB-D36b Thunderbird: The Thunderbird variant fielded by Kerensky’s SLDF during (and after) the drive on Terra utilized an extralight powerplant to free up the mass needed to accomplish the upgrades required. A single Gauss rifle with a two-ton magazine replaced each of the wing-mounted LRM racks, and the large lasers were upgraded to ER models. The extra mass needed for these upgrades was freed up by swapping the existing heat sinks with twenty-four double-strength freezers and replacing the standard armor with 13.5 tons of ferro-aluminum armor — resulting in a significant net increase in both cooling power and protection.
  Heh: either that's saying the SLDF used quad-strength heat-sinks on the -36b, or redundant phrasing is redundant.  :D

Class/Model/Name:  Thunderbird THB-D36b (my reconstruction)
Mass:              100 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  300 XL Fusion                                              9.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 5
      Maximum Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity: 10                                                  .00
Total Heat Sinks:    24 Double                                          14.00
Fuel:                                                                    5.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (241 total armor pts)                      13.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                 82
   Left/Right Wings:                  57/57
   Aft:                                  45

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 ER Large Laser           Nose         8      8      8     --   12      5.00
2 Medium Laser             Nose         5     --     --     --    6      2.00
1 ER Large Laser           RW           8      8      8     --   12      5.00
1 ER Large Laser           LW           8      8      8     --   12      5.00
1 Medium Laser             RW           5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             LW           5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Gauss Rifle              RW          15     15     15     --    1     15.00
1 Gauss Rifle              LW          15     15     15     --    1     15.00
  Ammo (Gauss) 32          ---                                           4.00
1 Medium Laser             Aft          5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             Aft          5     --     --     --    3      1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 56    100.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        16,486,500 C-Bills
Battle Value:      2,574
Cost per BV:       6,405.01
Weapon Value:      2,610 (Ratio = 1.01)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 66;  MRV = 33;  LRV = 13;  ERV = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 5,  Armor/Structure: 6 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: 7/5/5,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: FH;  Point Value: 26


  Oops, they did it again!  Punching in the T-bird according to the fluff brings us up one ton short.  RS: Klondike makes up the difference by adding a second ML to the nose, but easy fix though it may be, it's still undocumented in the fluff!  #P

  Gotta say, this isn't feeling much like a classic T-bird to me.  I can well understand the desire for more concentrated punch, as opposed to an LRM rack's often scattershot approach to hurting an enemy, but the Thunderbird's feel has always been "Pew-pew-pew!" and "May the Itano be with you!", not "This is my BOOMSTICK!"  On the other hand, in the air-to-ground role a pair of headcappers can swing the balance in a 'Mech-fight with one or two passes, which wasn't a small concern, so I guess in-universe reasons trump my questionable aesthetic sensibilities.
  Besides which, the T-bird was historically a Lyran machine, in origin if not always in use, and there's something near-Freudian about the Lyran Commonwealth and its need to put Really Big Guns on Really Big War-machines.  :D

  Dropper-chopper, air-to-ground head-capper, long-range fire-support system from the fringes of an aerospace fight (two GRs + 3 ERLLs at Long Range will break a Bad Guy's concentration pretty quick, chum!) - everything the T-bird did well in its baseline form, it now excels at after its upgrade.  However, that means that it's still not the greatest machine for other kinds of fighter work, so you'd be better served to look elsewhere if you want an interceptor or dogfighter.  #P

lowrolling

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #3 on: 18 February 2011, 23:32:57 »
Great article as always. Thanks for the info and tips on using/countering that you always include.
May no one ever know less then me......

hpackrat

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #4 on: 19 February 2011, 00:17:44 »
Well, you could always swap the Gauss Rifles with Silver Bullet Gauss & regain the Pew-Pew-Pew effect you wanted.

Neufeld

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #5 on: 19 February 2011, 05:41:48 »
*Looks at armor distribution of base model*: 40 rear armor!  [tickedoff]
No heavy fighter should be designed with less than 41 armor at any side!  [metalhealth]
The ability to take clusters without getting critted is important in a heavy fighter.
Way to ruin an otherwise decent attack fighter. At least it seems like most variants fixes this issue.

Sometime I have to write an article on "fighter armor: the good, the bad and the ugly".

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Moonsword

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #6 on: 19 February 2011, 09:53:55 »
As I said a little bit back, whoever replaced this with the Chippewa was hopefully very well paid.  This is a top-tier strike platform in my mind.  The THB-D46 is solid and effective enough to compete with the Royal Stuka despite not having an XLFE and the Royal refit is just plain wrong.  I agree with you that it might have had an influence on the Hydaspes given the similar armament, but the latter is something of a return to the classic beams-and-missiles load.

Well, you could always swap the Gauss Rifles with Silver Bullet Gauss & regain the Pew-Pew-Pew effect you wanted.

The pew-pew-pew is the energy weapons.  It's still got that.  He wants the Itano circus which is explicitly a missile effect.  I suppose you could stuff four LRM 15s and another two tons of ammo in there (split between the wings, of course).

nerd

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #7 on: 20 February 2011, 00:38:02 »
Just on the stats and time period from fluff, I would retroactively argue the Hydapses was built using the Thunderbird as a base idea.

Still, if I was the LCAF, I would have preferred Thunderbirds over Chippewas.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #8 on: 20 February 2011, 00:42:31 »
I'm really glad the FS makes these at Wangker.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #9 on: 20 February 2011, 01:26:20 »
Yeah, you said it.

Ugly as anything but definitely a deadly effective craft.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #10 on: 20 February 2011, 04:11:44 »
Still, if I was the LCAF, I would have preferred Thunderbirds over Chippewas.

I think everyone would prefer that.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #11 on: 20 February 2011, 04:16:04 »
Yeah, you said it.

Ugly as anything but definitely a deadly effective craft.

So was the A-10. No I take that back, they are both beautiful in a Kick-your-ass sort of way.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #12 on: 20 February 2011, 10:35:46 »
So was the A-10. No I take that back, they are both beautiful in a Kick-your-ass sort of way.

While I readily concede that with the A-10, as much as I'm fond of the Thunderbird, it's ugly as sin without any of the redeeming "bulldog ugly" that the A-10 trades on.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #13 on: 22 February 2011, 10:30:13 »
So was the A-10. No I take that back, they are both beautiful in a Kick-your-ass sort of way.

I'll agree with that...the mini shown on CamoSpecs for the Greenburg's Godzillas really sells me on this fighter...

Now, if there was only a good way to up the speed...will have to look into it...

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #14 on: 22 February 2011, 17:00:59 »
The Thunderbird is another design that the Magistracy picked up just before the Jihad with their Alliance Aerospace Group on Marantha. While we all know RATs don't mean anything and are thrown together in a haphazard manner, I find it interesting that the D46 appears on the Magistracy's list, along with the D36. Could be nothing and the RAT is wrong, but we don't really have much else to go on. Maybe the MIM got lucky with the plans at some point :)

Either way, its a massive boost to the Magistracy's fleet, assuming the production line survives the Jihad.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #15 on: 23 February 2011, 08:23:32 »
At that point, it's entirely possible the Lyran Alliance sold them the plans.  We know the Lyrans and Capellans have been doing some business lately and it's not as if the Magistracy is on their borders.  It's not even a cutting-edge bird for the Lyrans at that point.  Not everything that goes on needs to be attributed to intelligence agents stealing plans.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #16 on: 27 February 2011, 18:27:50 »
It would look a lot better with a central cockpit. The extreme dihedral of the wings and ventral fins bug me. How the hell does this thing land?

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #17 on: 27 February 2011, 18:31:27 »
Landing gear on stork legs?
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #18 on: 27 February 2011, 18:57:40 »
It would look a lot better with a central cockpit. The extreme dihedral of the wings and ventral fins bug me. How the hell does this thing land?

Gravity simply doesn't have the balls to deny it whatever it wants.

chanman

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #19 on: 27 February 2011, 19:01:21 »
Gravity simply doesn't have the balls to deny it whatever it wants.

Maybe it hovers, generating stationary ground effect through ugliness so profound, that it is repelled by the ground.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #20 on: 27 February 2011, 19:02:33 »
I already proposed that theory back on the old boards, although I forget which fighter it was.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #019 (repost) - Thunderbird
« Reply #21 on: 27 February 2011, 19:06:27 »
I already proposed that theory back on the old boards, although I forget which fighter it was.

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