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Author Topic: WSotW: Kimagure  (Read 8507 times)

Weirdo

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WSotW: Kimagure
« on: 13 June 2012, 08:21:44 »
Kimagure Pursuit Cruiser

Because I like weird and offbeat stuff, we're going to take a look at one of the stranger ships ever fielded by the Star League Navy. Apparently designed and built just because some bigwig at Krester Ship Construction thought they could, the SLDF brass was sufficiently impressed by this well-named act of whimsy to order an even dozen of the ships and bring them into service at the height of the Reunification War, presumably to help eliminate those wascally Tauwians. Given that the SLN would later go on to order over three dozen of an expensive battlecruiser they did not like, this seems less like approval to me as patting Krester on the head and sticking their WarShip onto the fridge for a few weeks. They must have proved their worth over the years, because the Kimagures would remain in service for the remainder of the Star League's existence. They would even help land Krester a juicy battleship contract almost forty years later, presumably when front-line commanders who had seen the ships in action firsthand were now the admirals in charge of procurement.

At 780 kilotons, the Kimagure lies right in the middle of the weight class for a cruiser, between the Avatar and Aegis classes that were its initial principal contemporaries. Where the Kimagure shines is the immense fusion drive that propels it to a spleen-congealing 4gs of maximum thrust, earning it the designation of Pursuit Cruiser. That's not to say that it would use that power constantly in pursuit of fleeing enemy ships. After all, Star League crews are still human, and thus function best with their spleens uncongealed*. Like anyone else who wants to actually fight at the end of their trip(or do anything other than moan in pain), Kimagures and their prey will spend most of their time burning at or slightly above 1G. Where ol' Hatchetface's power is revealed is in the ability to burn for short sprints. When your enemy is unlikely to be rated for three Gs(if that), even ten minutes at maximum burn will do wonders for closing the distance. A short sprinting period like that followed by a recovery period at normal acceleration means a much higher likelyhood of catching your prey, and forcing a fight. Once battle is actually joined, you've got more than enough power to pull off any maneuvers you can imagine, to say nothing about easily controlling the range of an engagement.

Once the fighting actually starts, the Kimagure is in good hands. 878 points of ferro-carbide is an extremely tough shell, only beaten in the cruiser class by the Luxor 145 years later. You're not invincible, but a hide like this does give you a wide margin for error, allowing players to experiment with Kimagure tactics and get the absolute most out of the aforementioned engines to pull off all sorts of fancy maneuvers. Do be careful, as you're still vulnerable to thresholding by a lot of capital-grade weapons, and bigger ships have the kind of firepower that can strip your shell FAST if you let them. You're the decision-maker in the fight, so choose the range/armor/gun combination that suits you the most(or suits him the least), and force your enemy to play by your rules.

As last week's article reminds us, the business of any WarShip is war, and for this the Kimagure is very well-equipped. I'm rather worried by the complete lack of capital missiles, as this restricts your fighting ability to normal gun ranges while other ships may be able to send noticeable firepower your way for quite some time before then main battle starts. Once you are on the same map though, this cruiser is far from disappointing. Over 90% of your fighting power is provided by a plethora of medium and heavy capital PPCs, mostly concentrated in the bow and broadside arcs. Most of these guns are grouped into large quadruple bays, allowing you to bracket for all you're worth, and use the extreme range of your guns to maximum effect. (Hmmm...you've got the speed to control the range, and the guns to hit hard at any range you want, even beyond the effective response range of many other ships. Is anyone else seeing a fighting style evolve here?) Sadly, you don't have the heat sinks to fire all these guns willy-nilly, though you do have enough to fire two of your heavy arcs, and maybe one or two or your lighter arcs. The only notable non-energy weapons are a pair of small NACs in the aft. While they do seem odd, it makes sense to me when you factor in the heat curve. Even if you fire both main broadside arcs, you'll still have the capacity left over to fire those tail guns on anyone trying to sneak into your aft arc. Given how important that engine is to Kimagure tactics, having a medium-sized bay always able to cover your tail seems like a good idea to me.

Kimagures are also notable for actually mounting an array of conventional guns, and also for the high technological level of said guns. Numerous ER Large Lasers are found fore and aft, with LB-X turrets in the quarter-arcs, and a sizeable turret of Large Pulse Lasers adding to your tail defenses. In another good move, most of these guns are placed in your low-heat arcs, so even if you're busy blazing away at a WarShip, you'll probably have the capacity to fire one or two additional arcs at fighters that try to hit you from another direction - and ALL of those bays are big enough to crit fighter squadrons, or even most DropShips. Finally, every arc also mounts a large turret of Small Pulse Lasers as a final line of point defense, alleviating some of my worries about that lack of capital missiles.

As a transport, the Kimagure is decidedly lackluster, cementing it in the space-superiority role. Twelve fighter bays and twin DropShip collars allow for just a minimum of organic escorts, so Kimagures expecting to face opposition that their own guns can't handle are advised to fight with friends available, either escorting larger ships in a line squadron, or as the lead ship in a pursuit squadron. A paltry cargo bay of just under nine kilotons also ties it to fleet supply ships instead of independent operations, unless you're carrying Mules or Mammoths on those collars. (This isn't a bad idea, actually. If you can find a safe place to stash your supply ships, you could wreak havoc across a few systems before having to return to a home port for some real resupply.) For boarding actions, a team of thirty marines are permanently stationed aboard the Kimagure, though a lack of shuttles makes their offensive use difficult.

Like many other Star League cruisers, Kimagure are equipped with Lithium-Fusion systems for added strategic mobility. While boosting their ability for independent operations, this is probably most useful when traveling with the Star League's battleships, enabling an entire task force to quickly cross huge distances to respond to trouble situations.

Command of a Kimagure means having options. You've got speed, armor and firepower to spare, so you're not really reliant on any given strategem to avoid defeat. A cautious commander could keep to extreme range all day, tune his PPC bays for maximum accuracy, and snipe until the space cows come home(Taurian jerky?). On the other hand, an aggressive son-of-a-Cameron can rapidly close, relying on superior armor to survive the drive in, and go for a turning fight, outflying his enemy to constantly hit his weakest spots with full-powered guns. Just remember not to get in over your head.

How do you beat the Hatchetface? Heat is the real weakness of this ship, so try to swarm and hit him from all directions. This is obviously easier said than done, but if you can really pull it off, you'll always have someone that cannot be fired effectively upon. Also, don't forget the small hangar deck, heavy fighter strikes will find it easy to get close to a lone Kimagure. Once they do, remember those conventional guns. While the bays are powerful, they are also small in number, so can also be quickly overwhelmed.



*Yes, I know that's not actually a symptom of excessive high-G exposure. I don't care. It's fun to say.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #1 on: 13 June 2012, 10:47:21 »
Liked this ship since I first saw it, radical change when the hull was converted by the Ravens into another effective ship

Moonsword

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #2 on: 13 June 2012, 17:53:38 »
The fighter bay problem can be solved by the application of a Titan or two as escorts.  They have enough cargo space that they wouldn't be heavily reliant on the cruiser's internal space (and can carry fighter supplies for it!) and another couple of wings and two solid, capable DropShips will take the starch out of a lot of fighter strikes.

SCC

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #3 on: 13 June 2012, 19:56:29 »
Is 4 g really need or could a point or two of thrust be dropped for more fighter bays and/or more heat sinks?

vidar

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #4 on: 13 June 2012, 21:21:26 »
Keep the speed, this is fast attack ship.  I love stashing at BB's with squadrons of these. 

Weirdo

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #5 on: 13 June 2012, 21:29:03 »
Definitely. The point of this ship is to catch up to and eliminate 4/6 ships like Concordats or Wagon Wheels.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
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Jellico

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #6 on: 13 June 2012, 21:44:26 »
Well, maybe. You chase down Concordats or Wagon Wheels with LF batteries.

Weirdo

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #7 on: 13 June 2012, 22:17:39 »
Not always useful, though you do have one for that purpose. But sometimes you're chasing someone deep in a system and there's no handy pirate point. At that point, there's nothing to do but catch up to them the hard way.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer

oldfart3025

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #8 on: 13 June 2012, 22:22:52 »
The fighter bay problem can be solved by the application of a Titan or two as escorts.  They have enough cargo space that they wouldn't be heavily reliant on the cruiser's internal space (and can carry fighter supplies for it!) and another couple of wings and two solid, capable DropShips will take the starch out of a lot of fighter strikes.

Great minds think alike. Though, I only attach one fighter carrier to a Kimagure for support. The second is almost always an assault ship. Toss in the cruiser's own fighters and the dropships' armed small craft (in my group's case Mk. VII/VIIC landers), we haven't had any issues when running this setup.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            On another note, even though we play the Kimagure as a frontline naval asset, we don't make a habit of taking on anything hard core without extra help. Hitting supply convoys, commerce raiding, dealing with privateers, and blunting interference from older "auxiliary" warships is mostly what we use old "hatchetface" for.

And as for the marine force stationed aboard the Kimagure, I consider it sufficient for defending the vessel against boarding actions (which shouldn't be very often). But I wouldn't try securing even a surrendered vessel without calling for some back-up.

Just my two cents worth.
« Last Edit: 13 June 2012, 22:27:36 by oldfart3025 »
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SCC

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #9 on: 13 June 2012, 23:45:12 »
I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't an updated/upgraded variant that fixes the worst of the problems, even with out getting rid of the cargo bay

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #10 on: 14 June 2012, 00:19:09 »
So am I the only one who thinks the Combine decided to copy the Kimagure when they built the Kirishima?
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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #11 on: 14 June 2012, 00:49:12 »
The Kirishima is the same speed and approximate weight class, so quite possible

Jellico

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #12 on: 14 June 2012, 01:44:15 »



One of these things is a rat, and one isn't. Covergent evolution is a wonderful thing.

For all we know the SLDF was copying an older DCMS concept. Or, both nations are trying to achieve the same goals within similar limitations.

Kiesel

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #13 on: 15 June 2012, 16:35:35 »
 8) That, sir, is an excellent visual example...  I'll have to snag that.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #14 on: 25 September 2018, 11:27:40 »
I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't an updated/upgraded variant that fixes the worst of the problems, even with out getting rid of the cargo bay

Thanks for this write up! I have decided to add this to my blood spirit fleet as the unknown 2nd ship they lost in the absorption war. Besides turning it into a conqueror class what mods would you recommend for the spirits?

Luciora

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #15 on: 25 September 2018, 12:09:58 »
You forgot the SLS Surprise, the only one modified to carry a light spinal mount.

Luciora

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #16 on: 25 September 2018, 22:14:01 »
On a related note, anyone have any idea how much more length would have to be added to the mini for proper scaling if one was to kitbash the Surprise?   :)

Weirdo

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #17 on: 25 September 2018, 23:11:25 »
Did Surprise have a notably different length? My impression is that Mass Drivers don't add much to a vessel's length, being almost completely internally mounted. That's where their hideous disadvantages come from, they have no traverse and require adjusting the entire ship's bearing to do anything with them.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
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"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
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Luciora

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #18 on: 25 September 2018, 23:18:45 »
Fluff says 43 meters were added to the ship and the front facing guns removed.  I suppose that means the hatchetface was removed as well.  I already have some plans mentally if I order another.

Did Surprise have a notably different length? My impression is that Mass Drivers don't add much to a vessel's length, being almost completely internally mounted. That's where their hideous disadvantages come from, they have no traverse and require adjusting the entire ship's bearing to do anything with them.

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #19 on: 26 September 2018, 10:46:03 »
43 meters is 6% of the standard Kimagure's 715-meter length. I don't have a mini handy to measure, but I think it's roughly 6cm long, which would lead to a length increase of less than a millimeter.

Since we don't know the internal layout of the Kimagure, I'd personally shy away from assuming the bow guns are the only systems found in the hatchet, or that Surprise's hatchet was removed in the refit.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
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Luciora

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #20 on: 26 September 2018, 11:02:39 »
Fair enough.  I'm still a bit enamored of the design since it was a recent build for me.  :)

Also want a Soyal released as well, but that's another topic!

43 meters is 6% of the standard Kimagure's 715-meter length. I don't have a mini handy to measure, but I think it's roughly 6cm long, which would lead to a length increase of less than a millimeter.

Since we don't know the internal layout of the Kimagure, I'd personally shy away from assuming the bow guns are the only systems found in the hatchet, or that Surprise's hatchet was removed in the refit.

Weirdo

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #21 on: 26 September 2018, 14:15:43 »
Also want a Soyal released as well, but that's another topic!

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"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #22 on: 26 September 2018, 16:08:30 »
Pity the massdrivers are so horrible.
I'd love to see a modernized version that didn't have that to-hit mod.
A spinal mount on a ship that might not always be able to bring it to bear is actually kinda cool, gameplay wise.
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Luciora

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #23 on: 26 September 2018, 17:28:24 »
I keep imagining combat in terms of RL:Leviathans for Aerotech/Battlespace and want to design carriers with Mass Drivers, only because you can't.   ;D

Pity the massdrivers are so horrible.
I'd love to see a modernized version that didn't have that to-hit mod.
A spinal mount on a ship that might not always be able to bring it to bear is actually kinda cool, gameplay wise.

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #24 on: 26 September 2018, 21:06:25 »
Pity the massdrivers are so horrible.
I'd love to see a modernized version that didn't have that to-hit mod.
A spinal mount on a ship that might not always be able to bring it to bear is actually kinda cool, gameplay wise.
homebrew idea: try to get more than one "spinal" mount on the ship, use the "bracketing" rule.
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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #25 on: 26 September 2018, 21:16:19 »
Pity the massdrivers are so horrible.
I'd love to see a modernized version that didn't have that to-hit mod.
A spinal mount on a ship that might not always be able to bring it to bear is actually kinda cool, gameplay wise.

Accurate weapon and improved targeting (short, medium, and long) design quirks? -2 to-hit modifier and only 152 quirk points.  ;D
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #26 on: 27 September 2018, 06:03:52 »
How have you fared with this ship in combat?

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #27 on: 28 September 2018, 11:04:22 »
43 meters is 6% of the standard Kimagure's 715-meter length. I don't have a mini handy to measure, but I think it's roughly 6cm long, which would lead to a length increase of less than a millimeter.

Since we don't know the internal layout of the Kimagure, I'd personally shy away from assuming the bow guns are the only systems found in the hatchet, or that Surprise's hatchet was removed in the refit.

Honestly . . . I think it would be easiest to build a mass driver like that as an external addition.  Build it along the ventral hull line, extend the armor around the mass driver and any of the equipment or control rooms a mass driver would need.  It would extend into the hatchet, which would provide very good protection for muzzle/aperture of the weapon and as mentioned disguise the alterations from being noticed in the most important phase . . . on approach!

Now I have to see if the ship is in MM to try it out.

Btw, please tell me the Surprise's captain is 'Lucky' Jack Aubrey who considers the doctor a personal friend.
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Weirdo

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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #28 on: 28 September 2018, 11:50:52 »
A semi-external mount like that would certainly explain why the single shot fired did so much damage to Surprise's frame.

For a mass driver you intend to use more than once, you really want that gun as close to the keel as possible, preferably integrated into it.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
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Re: WSotW: Kimagure
« Reply #29 on: 28 September 2018, 11:56:53 »
yeah, and not being purpose built means those fluctuating magnetic fields would likely cause a ripple along the keel as it was fired.  Being a integrated spinal mount would keep it from hogging.
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