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Author Topic: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor  (Read 5187 times)

sillybrit

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Shedu Assault Battle Armor - Technical Readout 3075 page 41



     Quad.



     Okay, okay, if I must...

     The sole quad among the Demon series, the Shedu is a powerful-looking, heavily armored Assault Battle Armor design. Despite the potential of the chassis, it's perhaps also the most disappointing of the Demon suits, with weapon configurations that fail to fully exploit its hefty payload, in my opinion. On the positive side, the Shedu is cosmetically pleasing - for a quad - but more importantly it can take a beating and can prove to be a danger in urban combat when handled well.

     Maelwys: Strangely, the writeup for the Shedu goes on about how its "radical and an experimental departure from the rest of the Demon battle armor series." I don't really see it. Okay, sure, it’s the only quad, but quads are a 2 decade old technology by the time the Shedu puts in an appearance in 3072. I can see it being a departure from the other suits, but radical and experimental?

     Published in Technical Readout 3075 and first introduced within the universe in 3072, the Shedu is just pipped into second place by its Assault-class stablemate, the Nephilim, for the position of most heavily armored suit among the Demon series of Battle Armor that serves in the Shadow Divisions. Sheathed in fifteen points of Advanced plating, the Shedu has just enough armor to take a hit from a Gauss Rifle and still keep fighting, a trait shared by few designs, whether Clan or Inner Sphere.

     The Shedu's mobility is equally finely tuned, although only average for the quad Assault chassis, with a ground speed of three Movement Points, which does indeed make it excellent compared to the more common bipedal designs. Most importantly, the Shedu is quick enough to generate a Target Movement Modifier unless slowed by terrain, enhancing survivability by avoiding being hit in the first place. Like other suits with a fast ground speed, the design is an excellent urban warfare design, able to outrun the majority of Battle Armor, which are typically limited to the same pace as foot infantry when unable to use their jump jets.

     Maelwys: Are we beginning to see a pattern here? Only the Asura and Djinn's movement falls along the "traditionally accepted" values. The Se'irim is a fast mover..on the ground. The Tengu both jumps and runs along the ground. The Nephilim is a fast mover...on the ground (for its weight). And now the Shedu (for the obvious reason of course). I don't know if it worked out that way, or if it there was a plan, but its an interesting tidbit to me.

     Adding to the Shedu's plus points, it also has the heaviest payload among the Demon series and one of the heaviest in the Battle Armor world, with the suit able to mount an impressive 690kg of weaponry and equipment. With that auspicious start, you would be forgiven to expect the Shedu to truly be a demon on the battlefield, but unfortunately its variants and configurations are all somewhat lacking. To be fair, in part that is due to the Shedu being published long before the latest construction rules for quad Battle Armor, thus its canon variants were restricted to just six slots for their armament. With relatively few slots for its payload size, the Shedu was thus forced to mostly opt for weapon and equipment choices with a high mass-to-slot ratio. Two of the variants address this issue with the use of Detachable Weapon Packs, which only require a single slot no matter how bulky the weapon, but this comes with its own problem, namely the greatly reduced mobility.

     jymset: Really, the Shedu is yet another somewhat lackluster suit that does not use the chassis' potential to full extent. The basics are really good, actually, with movement 3 being quite smart, but the woes begin at the armor. Fifteen points of Advanced armor are awesome by itself, but rubbish when put next to the sublime Nephilim's sixteen points of Mimetic.

      This stipulates awesome weaponry and in that context, the Shedu is an epic fail. If the chassis, or at least the armor, were more inspired, the weaponry would get away with being run of the mill.


     Starting off the list of missed opportunities is the Standard variant, which for effectively cosmetic reasons mounts part of its weaponry in a turret, with its wider firing arc only of any importance in roleplaying scenarios. Despite the name in Technical Readout 3075, the turret is not modular, an issue addressed in the latest Technical Manual errata, and the installed Heavy Recoilless Rifle can for all intents and purposes be considered a fixed weapon. Although a powerful weapon, unfortunately the Heavy Recoilless Rifle doesn't offer much more performance than the Medium version, for the cost of an extra 75kg and a vital slot, but what really holds the Shedu Standard back is its secondary weaponry. A pair of Heavy Machine Guns might appear worthwhile at first glance, inflicting decent damage for their mass, but the problem is their all but negligible range, that requires the Standard to get deep into the enemy's kill zone to be able to use its machine guns. The only plus point is that the Shedu's affinity for urban combat can mitigate the range issue of its backup armament, particularly for any gunfights that occur within the confines of a building.

     Maelwys: It's hard to object to this really. You've got the range of the Heavy Recoilless Rifle, but to use the heavy MGs you're forced to come in close, which is where you generally don't want to be. On the other hand, if you do get stuck in close (such as urban terrain), then you can hit up to 18 times for 3 points of damage, which isn't too bad at all.

     The Support variant continues the pattern of strong, but short ranged secondary armament, that in this case is the only firepower once the main battery has been salvoed. Mounting a pair of SRM3 launchers, the Shedu Support can inflict some serious damage at range, but due to the lack of reloads it's a one-time deal for a full salvo and then it's forced to rely upon its pair of Small Lasers. Players familiar with the old Sloth will be comfortable with this weapon arrangement, although they would have the advantage of triple the armor, which does at least mean that they actually might survive getting into firing range and staying there. Yet again, try to keep the Shedu Support in confined areas and thereby reduce the impact of the limited range of the lasers.

     The third of the original trio of Shedu variants, the Recon is perhaps the least objectionable, although it's not without its worrisome points, even with the latest buff for its chosen weaponry. Mounting a single Light Mortar for offensive firepower, under the 2nd edition Tactical Operations rules the weapon is now capable of indirect fire, although the short range can reduce that advantage. Perhaps more importantly, the mortar can fire smoke rounds to help block incoming fire, allowing the suit to concentrate on the job of gathering data. Together with a Camo System, an ECM suite offers further protection when the latter is used in Ghost Target mode, but in some circumstances a better choice might be to switch to ECCM mode to thus cancel enemy ECM that might otherwise block the integral C3I network if the Manei Domini inside are so equipped. On the subject of cyberware, sensory upgrades combined with the VDNI neural control system can boost the range of the Improved Sensors, although personally I'd rather they relied upon the cyber sensors alone and instead installed a Light TAG. Despite its light weapon load, the Recon can sometimes be the most dangerous variant when it acts as a C3I spotter for the remainder of its Level II, although as noted earlier, that role does require the Manei Domini troopers be implanted with the appropriate cyberware.

     In 3074 the next pair of Shedu variants were encountered, both taking advantage of the Detachable Weapon Pack technology acquired by the Blakists in the previous year, and both opting to install part of their armament in a turret. The more usable of the two models mounts twin Support PPCs in its turret and is appropriately labeled the PPC variant. Offering a reasonable combination of range and firepower, the PPCs could be replaced with better weapons, but given the available rules at the time Technical Readout 3075 came out, they aren't a bad choice. What really lets the Shedu PPC down is its third weapon, which in my opinion is little more than new toy syndrome at its worst. By exploiting the mass-reducing capability of Detachable Weapon Packs, Precentor Vapula managed to squeeze a 150kg Heavy Machine Gun into just 115kg, Unfortunately, until the machine gun is jettisoned, the suit is limited to being able to move just a single Movement Point per Turn, thus increasing its vulnerability to incoming fire. Personally, I believe a standard 100kg Machine Gun would have been a far better choice, keeping the majority of the secondary firepower without the need to cripple the suit's mobility, and with better range as an added side-benefit.

     The fifth and final variant is without a doubt the worst of the bunch. Like the design in general, the Shedu Capture Team starts off well enough, with the superb Magshot mounted in a turret, but the installation of a pair of 'Mech Tasers turns the variant into the Battle Armor equivalent of a turd in a punchbowl. It's true that occasionally a player might get lucky with the Tasers and bring down a target that the suit would otherwise have zero chance of defeating, but more typically the result is a big fat zero, or even that the Battle Armor fries itself instead of its foe. Adding insult to injury, the Tasers are mounted using Detachable Weapon Packs, thus limiting the suit to a single Movement Point until they're dropped. At least the Tasers are one-shot weapons and thus the suit won't be losing any firepower after the Packs are discarded, but that is small comfort for such a hideous weapon and such a poor use of a weight-saving technology that can provide such massive benefits in more efficient designs.

     So how to use the Shedu? By now you've probably noticed the hints that the suit works well in urban combat; the high ground speed allows the Shedu to rapidly move around within buildings, where jump jets can't be used, or to quickly dash from one to another. Combining the suit's superb inherent toughness with the extra protection provided by the heavier, more robust buildings, Shedus can be a real pain for opponents to kill, although as always area effect weapons can greatly ease the task of clearing structures of the any Battle Armor. Outside of cities, the Shedu isn't necessarily impotent, but like other Assaults it does suffer from the inability to perform Mechanized Battle Armor operations, and thus relies upon traditional APC-style transport to move to and around the battlefield. The Shedu's own mobility is just enough to keep up with slowly moving battles by itself, however there's no reserve left to deal with poor terrain, and if there's a river or similar impediment, the quads can end up unable to reach the fight.

     My general distaste for quads aside, it's true that the Shedu has perhaps suffered more than its fair share of whacks by the Inefficiency Bat, but at least it has the virtue of survivability to balance its less than desirable weaponry. One of the rarer Demon suits, the Shedu was unknown outside the ranks of the Shadow Divisions at the time of the publication of Technical Readout 3075, which doesn't bode well for its future. For good or bad, the Shedu will undoubtedly go the way of the Dodo now that the Word have been defeated, and barring the incredibly faint possibility of a much improved variant or two being added in some future publication, I can't say I'll be that sad to see it go.

Next up:
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Weirdo

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #1 on: 27 July 2012, 11:39:51 »
An interesting suit. I like it, but then I'm a fan of any BA with a high ground speed.

Standard: Definitely a high-intensity urban brawler. A potential max of 54 damage is insane in a BA squad. You can cripple 'mechs in ambush, park just about any tank(even if parking is accomplished by simply blowing one side off), and the sheer number of hits means that even without any burst-fire bonuses you can go toe-to-toe with the true urban overlords, conventional troops. Even better, the raw damage makes a Shedu squad a credible bunker-buster. You don't have to go into a building to clear out infantry, you can actually drop the roof on them in a decent amount of time. Even with the damage reduction of the building, they'll take heavy damage from that many hits, and then shortly after that, the roof will fall on them.

Support: While the range of the SRMs is nice, I'm going to say this is another ambush fighter since you want to be up close to avoid wasting your only shot. A mind-boggling potential damage of 108 points per squad means this should be kept in reserve until you find something really juicy to kill, like a command assault mech or any hardened bunker short of a Castle Brian. The downside is the ammo load, since(much like the Kalki missile launcher) with only one shot, a player will be highly tempted to pass up good targets in favor of a great target and wind up missing all the good ones. My advice would be to use this as an assassin unit. When the game starts, pick one enemy unit as a target. Then keep the Shedu in cover as it moves towards that target, and that target alone. Avoid all other enemy contact until you reach that target, then drop the hammer on it. If it lives, finish it off with the lasers. If it doesn't, either withdraw to reload and repeat, or become a harassment unit, going after opportunity targets as you make your way back to friendly lines.

Recon: Definitely a support unit, I agree that putting MDs with probe-like augments in these suits is the best use for them. In cities, advance them one block over from your other friendlies, sticking close enough to find hidden units and support friendlies with ECM and mortar fire. In more open battlefields, I'd use it as an escort, providing electronic support to high-value assaults as well as limited covering fire. The mortar won't do much damage, but being essentialy a light SRM-6 makes it useful for engaging backstabbing hovercraft. The one thing I really don't like here is the camo system. On a unit designed to stay on the move, this is mostly wasted mass, only useful when forced into a defensive position, and this is the least useful Shedu to have when trying to hold a spot.

PPC: DWPs automatically make this an ambush or defensive unit. Either start the game where you plan to fight, or in an APC that will quickly get you there. Alternatively, drop the DWP in the first turn, and this makes an excellent escort or general combatant. 4 damage per suit may seem unimpressive on an assault suit, but combined with the Shedu's speed, you get a suit that's far more dangerous than it looks.

Capture: Nothing subtle here. Deploy it like the PPC one. Either expend the whole squad trying to capture a single target, or drop the tasers and use the Magshot to become a fast ranged fighter. Alternatively, you could use the tasers as intimidation guns. Stick it in a position you don't want the enemy to occupy(or that you expect them to move past repeatedly), and they may avoid it simply to avoid taser rolls. The sheer number of tasers you have means you can keep this up for quite a while, assuming decent luck with the feedback rolls.
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Jim1701

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #2 on: 27 July 2012, 12:48:11 »
If nothing else it has the distinction of being the only BA suit (that I am aware of anyway) that mounts a HRR.  I'd really want to swap out those HMG's for standard models though. 

Weirdo

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #3 on: 27 July 2012, 14:06:10 »
Well, it was until the Marians whipped out the Ravager.

Hmm....given the the Hegemony was moer or less at war with the Word's Last, Best Hope for Fodder(Circinus) for almost thirty years, I wonder if salvaged Shedu guns were some of the inspiration for the Ravager?
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #4 on: 27 July 2012, 17:20:25 »
I really like the basic design for the Shedu. I wish it had chance survive on design wise be improved and take advanage of its payload capacity.
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #5 on: 27 July 2012, 20:55:56 »
In the Assault weight class Quads might be better, Assault weight units can't use Mechanized BA tactics you also pay massive costs (5 times weight per point of jumping and only weigh twice) and can't generate a TMM with enhancements, so it's better to take a quad with it's extra free point of MP and bump it to 3 and given you want to carry a lot of armor on a suit of such weight

Kopfjager

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #6 on: 27 July 2012, 21:55:05 »
The Shedu might not be the most "efficient" use of its payload space, but don't diss it till you've tried it.

Even in non-urban terrains they can be a beast. Load them up into some fast APCs (Maxims anyone?) and go assault mech hunting!

(First time I used one it ran point-blank to an undamaged Cyclops... and killed it in a single salvo. Got plenty of baffled looks all around the tables right then and there. :D )

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #7 on: 28 July 2012, 00:33:54 »
If nothing else it has the distinction of being the only BA suit (that I am aware of anyway) that mounts a HRR.  I'd really want to swap out those HMG's for standard models though.
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« Last Edit: 28 July 2012, 00:36:32 by Pa Weasley »

sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #8 on: 28 July 2012, 00:54:22 »
In the Assault weight class Quads might be better, Assault weight units can't use Mechanized BA tactics you also pay massive costs (5 times weight per point of jumping and only weigh twice) and can't generate a TMM with enhancements, so it's better to take a quad with it's extra free point of MP and bump it to 3 and given you want to carry a lot of armor on a suit of such weight

Alternatively, plan on using DWPs, keep the movement at the 2 MP default to avoid spending any mass, and load up with a hideous amount of firepower. Even with enough armor to defeat a Gauss Rifle shot, it's possible to install effectively 1100+ kg of weaponry when using DWPs.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #9 on: 28 July 2012, 14:52:29 »
I positivly love this BA suit. Undoubtedly my favorite BA in the entirety of Battletech. I think that it should stay in the city though to compensate for its lack of range. However, in a city it can do 9 DAMAGE PER TROOPER. That is an astounding 54 damage max. You must say, that is incredibly large.
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #10 on: 28 July 2012, 17:20:09 »
And a Kanazuchi can 13 DAMAGE PER TROOPER two hexes before the Shedu can even start. An astounding 52 out of 4 troops makes 54 out of 6 troops seem a bit anemic.

Just saying is all  :P

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #11 on: 29 July 2012, 05:00:50 »
And a Kanazuchi can 13 DAMAGE PER TROOPER two hexes before the Shedu can even start. An astounding 52 out of 4 troops makes 54 out of 6 troops seem a bit anemic.

Just saying is all  :P
Well, 8 of those points are one-shot, so it's not the best comparison... ::)

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #12 on: 29 July 2012, 05:36:19 »
If you want to compare the Kanazuchi, the more apt comparison would be the Support Shedu. 13 damage/trooper for the Kanazuchi versus 18/trooper for the Shedu.

That said, it's hard to find any other BA that can match the standard Shedu's sustained firepower. They're real menaces in cities.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #13 on: 29 July 2012, 08:32:20 »
Except 6 of those points off the standard Shedu are at 2 hexes. Huge damage is useless unless it can be applied.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #14 on: 02 August 2012, 05:14:21 »
I think this is a good place to blunder in and say that I love Quad BA.
This one may be particularly poorly done, but in my book there is no excuse for making a Biped Assault design, unless it's about looks.
In a Quad, it's obvious someone's more or less sitting in there, and four legs allow a more stable stand without such fancy things like gyros.
And this design, if done deliberately, looks pretty good as well, unlike abominations like the Achileus.
I can excuse heavy and assault designs of preposterous sizes for the clans, which can breed warriors to fit in there, but the IS has no such excuse; Well, I guess the MD do.
Can DWPs be installed on turrets?
Could place a decent laser there, then.
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sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #15 on: 02 August 2012, 05:49:07 »
This one may be particularly poorly done, but in my book there is no excuse for making a Biped Assault design, unless it's about looks.

True jump capability remains one advantage for bipedal suits, and prior to TacOps 2ndEd bipedals also had an advantage in the number of slots, and still do compared to turretless quads. In RPG terms, the ability for appropriately designed bipedal suits to actually open doors, etc using their manipulators, rather than knocking them down may also be of some use.

A quad can mount myomer boosters so that it can jump 1MP, but it's not able to use that capability to safely jump from a high height, unlike suits with jump jets. Of course, given that it would cost 500kg to install those boosters in the first place, any such assault quad isn't going to have much combat payload.

Quote
Can DWPs be installed on turrets?

No. Same as DWPs can't be mounted on MWMs.


Although a quad may have a more stable stance than a biped, it also comes with its own problems, because at heart it's not really Battle Armor, it's instead a small legged vehicle. For a biped to step over an obstructing object, the trooper just lifts his/her leg higher, but for a quad that means the trooper has to operate an extra control for the leg to lift higher, or the quad has to have an extra sensor system installed to compensate for such issues.

Jim1701

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #16 on: 02 August 2012, 15:54:25 »
I can excuse heavy and assault designs of preposterous sizes for the clans, which can breed warriors to fit in there, but the IS has no such excuse; Well, I guess the MD do.

You can put Barney Fife in battle armor if you want to.  Just make sure Andy carries the ammo.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #17 on: 03 August 2012, 06:00:38 »
Although a quad may have a more stable stance than a biped, it also comes with its own problems, because at heart it's not really Battle Armor, it's instead a small legged vehicle. For a biped to step over an obstructing object, the trooper just lifts his/her leg higher, but for a quad that means the trooper has to operate an extra control for the leg to lift higher, or the quad has to have an extra sensor system installed to compensate for such issues.

That's the entire point.
Assault Designs are mostly so large that the operator sits in them, they are also small vehicles. Pretty much 100% for the inner sphere, bar MD, just look at those suits, no one can realistically fit in there like in an Elemental suit.

Sure, everything is open to opinion, but I just don't buy that an assault suit needs mobility, given how much they pay for jump jets. Using a heavy chassis for that seems like a better, and noticeably cheaper, option, that also allows easier transportation why whatever means available.

Now, I certainly agree that is not an argument in favor of Quads, and in the past, there probably wasn't one, but with DWPs available, a Quad Assault suit can save 160 kg for additional payload.
Or, in RP terms, use a turret.

The point about manipulators is valid, just how many doors is an assault suit going to open that it can actually fit through afterwards?
And where would that lead it, given it weights two tons and probably shouldn't leave ground level?  ;)

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #18 on: 03 August 2012, 12:54:10 »
You can put Barney Fife in battle armor if you want to.  Just make sure Andy carries the ammo.

That so makes me want to write up a story of Davion Outback militia getting their first cast off BA from the front line units.

At the General Store, the sheriff is trying to take down a statement.

"Okay, Lenny, explain to me again why there is a hole in your ceiling."

"I dunno, Sheriff Andy, I was in the back when I heard an all fired commotion. When I came out the floor tiles were on fire."

"And the beer case was gone?"

"Right."

Meanwhile, back at the militia base.

"Dang it, Leroy, you forgot the chips!"

"I can't open the beer can with this danged armored claws!"

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sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #19 on: 03 August 2012, 13:01:19 »
That's the entire point.
Assault Designs are mostly so large that the operator sits in them, they are also small vehicles. Pretty much 100% for the inner sphere, bar MD, just look at those suits, no one can realistically fit in there like in an Elemental suit.

Sure, everything is open to opinion, but I just don't buy that an assault suit needs mobility, given how much they pay for jump jets. Using a heavy chassis for that seems like a better, and noticeably cheaper, option, that also allows easier transportation why whatever means available.

Now, I certainly agree that is not an argument in favor of Quads, and in the past, there probably wasn't one, but with DWPs available, a Quad Assault suit can save 160 kg for additional payload.
Or, in RP terms, use a turret.

The point about manipulators is valid, just how many doors is an assault suit going to open that it can actually fit through afterwards?
And where would that lead it, given it weights two tons and probably shouldn't leave ground level?  ;)



Except that how a bipedal Assault is worn has never been clarified, and it should be remembered that doubling the mass from 1t to 2t doesn't make the suit double the height, etc, so it's not impossible for a trooper's limbs to extend into the limbs of an Assault suit - the Powerloader operated by Ripley is likely a good example of how larger Battle Armor are laid out. Neither Classic BattleTech Companion nor Tech Manual describe any control method for bipedal suits other than the feedback mechanism that reacts to the trooper attempting to moving a limb. By contrast, both publications explicity state that quads are an exception to that, with Tech Manual mentioning the use of stick and pedals.

I typically favor Heavies for many situations where others would use an Assault, simply because I like the option of Mechanized Battle Armor tactics when the Omnis are available. That said, the ability of Assaults to cross the 15 point armor threshold or to carry more payload for some armor/mobility combinations gives them advantages too, and even a 1MP jump capability can be worthwhile given that it typically guarantees a +1 TMM, whereas a faster ground-based suit might be held up by terrain or circumstances and not get that same bonus. Equally, there are of course situations where there's no rough terrain and the ground-based suit can fully exploit its mobility, or where the jump-capable suit can't jump.

When slot limits are added in, the payload gap between bipedal and quad Assault can shrink even further if the latter is to match the former in total number of slots, such as might be required when using advanced armors alongside some of the bulkier weapon choices. A bipedal Assault with 1MP jump for the +1 TMM would have 1200kg for armor, weaponry and manipulators, while a 3MP quad would have 1220kg for armor and weaponry if it mounted a 4-slot turret so that it had the same total of 14 free slots. Assuming the bipedal suit had a MWM for modular capability, leaving a 1190kg payload, the quad would have to upgrade to a larger 5-slot modular turret to match that modularity, which would actually give it the same 1190 kg payload. Of course, with either turret the quad has the ability to add more slots, each costing 10kg, up to the 10-slot limit, while the bipedal also has to add multiple MWMs if it wants multiple modular weapons.

While DWPs can neatly address the slot issue, there is no modular capability using DWPs, which can be an issue for some designs, and don't forget that missile launchers can't be mounted on a DWP. If you want a suit with a high spike damage, something very desirable for slow designs that might not get too many opportunites, then missiles are the way to go, and that means lots of slots.

As for the doors, it doesn't always have to be standard person-sized doors, don't forget loading bay doors, car port doors, the oversized double doors encountered on some public buildings, etc.

The load bearing capability of building floors is luckily something we don't have to worry about in BattleTech, even though it does come up with some GMs in RPG scenarios. If it did, upper floors - and perhaps some ground floors for those buildings with basements - would likely be off limits for most Battle Armor, whether bipedal or quad.

A. Lurker

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #20 on: 03 August 2012, 13:32:30 »
The load bearing capability of building floors is luckily something we don't have to worry about in BattleTech, even though it does come up with some GMs in RPG scenarios. If it did, upper floors - and perhaps some ground floors for those buildings with basements - would likely be off limits for most Battle Armor, whether bipedal or quad.

Actually, at twelve tons a full Level I of Shedus isn't a trivial load for upper building floors even in BattleTech. Remember, if the combined weight of units on a single upper building floor ever exceeds the building's remaining CF, the whole hex comes tumbling down...

sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #21 on: 03 August 2012, 13:52:46 »
True, with damaged buildings in particular it does have an effect, however I think even with undamaged buildings the rules are far too generous, especially given that we ignore basements.

My biggest gripe is that really even a single Medium should be facing at least the possibility of problems in a typical house, for example, nevermind heavier suits or whole squads.

SCC

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #22 on: 03 August 2012, 19:10:14 »
While DWPs can neatly address the slot issue, there is no modular capability using DWPs, which can be an issue for some designs, and don't forget that missile launchers can't be mounted on a DWP. If you want a suit with a high spike damage, something very desirable for slow designs that might not get too many opportunites, then missiles are the way to go, and that means lots of slots.
Presumably DWP are designed to be swapped out easily, I don't think this is an issue

sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #23 on: 04 August 2012, 00:30:42 »
Unfortunately, even though a portion of the weapon is mounted externally, with the whole pack capable of being jettisoned, there is no inherent modularity built into DWPs. From a fluff point of view, it probably would be easier to create a new variant by just switching between two DWPs, than it would be for a non-DWP suit, but there is no modular capability under the rules.

The same holds true with detachable missile launchers, but they have the same issue. If you want modular capability you need a MWM or modular turret, and neither can mount a DWP, which is really annoying because it killed a large number of custom designs I used to have.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #24 on: 04 August 2012, 11:45:38 »
Well put.
I guess our biggest difference in assessment of those suits (I really need to get into Megamek to get those old experiences updated) is our valuation of speed.
I personally think if I go for an Assault suit it's a weapons platform. Unless there's style reasons, which can happen.
And our preferences for Style.
I mean, take the Grenadier;
It must be pretty damn uncomfortable to wear that suit, thanks to it's legs being so far from each other. Or you're really stoud and the suit is a bit smaller than I thought.
I won't even start on stuff like the achileus which seems to be designed for MD.
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Jellico

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #25 on: 04 August 2012, 17:39:00 »
Well put.
I guess our biggest difference in assessment of those suits (I really need to get into Megamek to get those old experiences updated) is our valuation of speed.
I personally think if I go for an Assault suit it's a weapons platform. Unless there's style reasons, which can happen.
And our preferences for Style.
I mean, take the Grenadier;
It must be pretty damn uncomfortable to wear that suit, thanks to it's legs being so far from each other. Or you're really stoud and the suit is a bit smaller than I thought.
I won't even start on stuff like the achileus which seems to be designed for MD.

Check out the artwork for the Thunderbird for some ideas how a person might fit.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #26 on: 04 August 2012, 19:56:50 »
Isn't that an Aerospace Fighter?
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Pa Weasley

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #27 on: 04 August 2012, 21:04:11 »
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/3228/Thunderbird-Battle-Armor-%5bAP-Gauss%5d

Nova Cat heavy suit. I always assumed the warrior's feet were located at the "spikes" at the suit's knees. After having his/her legs surgically shortened.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Shedu Assault Battle Armor
« Reply #28 on: 04 August 2012, 21:23:56 »
Well, if you expect the warrior to be 'standing on this toes', it can somehow make do. On the edge, I guess. But again, the position of the arms irks me more.
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