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Author Topic: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah  (Read 9157 times)

Trace Coburn

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Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« on: 24 February 2011, 07:02:08 »
F-1** Cheetah - 25t, TRO3025
Originally posted 11 May 2005.

  All proposed fan-variants should be posted in the corresponding "FotW Workshop" thread.


  Supposedly a Star League design which was co-opted by the Free Worlds League at the outset of the Succession Wars, the Cheetah actually supplanted the Trident in SLDF service as the Navy’s preferred carrier-based interceptor, based partly (or so I gather) on its superior armour strength.  (This despite the Trident wearing a skin of ferro-aluminium!  :o)  Originally intended as a fast reconnaissance platform, the Cheetah is relatively thin-skinned and only moderately armed, counting on its fleetness of foot to carry it through the fire unscorched - not without reason, as only the Swift was faster before the arrival of Kerensky’s Mobs.  :D

  At twenty-five tons, the F-10 Cheetah gives exactly half its mass to a GM-a 250 powerplant, giving it a blinding 12/18 turn of speed (that’s six gees of sustained power and nine in bursts, so physical fitness and the right body-type is likely a must for F-10 drivers :D); this means that it can out-run and out-turn even the 11/17 SYD-Z Seydlitz, and with four tons of fuel to the Seydlitz’ three, it’s longer-legged as well.  The price of all that speed, however, is ruthless limits on internal volume available for weapons and armour, neither of which is all that impressive: despite the fluff, the nose-mounted Starflash small laser and single mediums in each wing are only ‘fair’ by the standards of its fellow interceptors, and the three tons of armour (distributed 13/11/13) are only enough to withstand the lightest of return fire; anything that can bring more than a couple of medium lasers to bear on the F-10 Cheetah (which is just about everything in the skies) has the potential to cripple or kill it in a single pass.  One might note, however, that the Cheetah does make a decent fast bomber, lofting five tons of ordnance at a still-impressive 11/17 (which is as fast as a clean Seydlitz and gets you two hexes per turn on the Strategic scale, AFAIK - which sounds like a fair clip to me.  ;))  Strafing, air-to-ground-strike and anti-shipping capability are negligible, as one might expect of a craft so small, but if nothing else they’re good for getting in really, really fast and drawing the triple-A’s fire to give other units a clearer path.  ::)

  Fighting with a Cheetah unit on your side is a Tale of Slashing Attacks.  As they lack a Big Fething Gun to (counter)punch above their weight like the Seydlitz does, F-10s cannot afford to face heavy firepower head-to-head; instead, you send in the Stingrays to grab the other guy by the nose, then kick him in the ass (or other exposed portions of anatomy) with Cheetahs in one-pass-haul-ass strikes that exploit blind sides and weak spots in their formations; once you hit, you don’t turn with the other guy - you extend and set up for another such opportunity (read: look for another victim ;D).  Even the pathetically-armoured Thrush can hand you your lunch in a turning fight, so don’t let ’em get started.  As always, mantras, mantras, mantras;D

  Lyran players wanting to deal with Cheetahs are in for an ‘interesting’ time of it - in the Chinese sense.  ;D  Without a prayer of keeping up with these little speed-demons, even with their kickass Seydlitz, they do possess shedloads of firepower and a broad engagement-range advantage, both of which they should exploit it shamelessly.  Cheetahs are very brittle, and a dose from a Lucifer’s LRM-20 or a Stingray’s PPC will smash one up for fair.  Capellans actually can match the F-10’s agility with their own TR-7 Thrush, but that’s a chancey kind of thing to try: while possessed of moderately more punch, the Thrush is even more delicate than its intended victim.  The preference would be to stand back and let the other guy run onto/across your guns, especially if you have Transgressors or Thunderbirds at your disposal.

  As far as variants go, the F-11-R is the dedicated recon version spoken of in the fluff; it sheds both medium lasers, the Cheetah’s only significant weapons, and uses the space for extra fuel, allowing for high-speed dashes across unfriendly territory to take a look-see.  Useful mainly in RP-style situations or for drawing off enemy interceptors to open a gap for other, more effective spaceframes, this is not a type to be used in combat.  At all.
  Used as a point-defence interceptor at critical ground installations and as a last-ditch defence for some Leaguer DropShips, the F-12-S sheds both MLs and a ton of fuel to install an SRM-4 with twenty-five salvoes.  While this may have been a fine crit-seeking move under AT1, in the modern iteration of the game it’s a little dubious for an individual bird; if entire squadrons use shark-pack tactics on a single target, though, it could do a number on it.  :o

  [VARIANT PROPOSAL(S) REDACTED] All proposed fan-variants - including my own - belong in the corresponding "FotW Workshop" thread: http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,2199.0.html



  3049 AND BEYOND

  The F-11-RR is the first of two foundtech versions, employing an XL engine to free almost a quarter of the ship’s all-up mass... and in this case, ploughing it all into fuel.  Ten tons of fuel.  No extra armour; no increase in firepower beyond that of the standard F-10; no DHS (not that they’re needed); no extra speed or gadgets.  As a pure first-shell stop-’em-’til-help-arrives interceptor, or as a dash-and-flash recon platform, this one’s pretty good; despite its continued frailty and lack of significant weaponry, the F-11-RR’s operating range (and concommitant interception radius) certainly take a great deal of beating.  This is the only fighter in existence whose internal-load fuel lets it match the legs of the Slayer!  (Though what it’s supposed to do if/when it actually catches a Slayer is a different story - one is put in mind of a rat chasing down a panther, or a Fire Moth A getting in the face of an Atlas:o)  Acceptable, but not really a stand-out.
  Our final contestant is the F-14-S, which is almost a living slander on that hallowed designation.  ::)  A foundtech remodelling of the F-12-S, this one also has the XL engine and expanded fuel tanks (a total of six tons, in this case), and Hallelujah, it has more armour!  Five-point-five tons of the stuff, 26/19/24 - not as tough as a Sparrowhawk, but nearly twice as survivable as it was (at least in terms of sheer, accumulating punishment).  The armament, though?  Well, given all their new technology, the FWL went ahead and armed this shiny new fighter with... a pair of nose-mounted SSRM-2s and a ton of ammo.  Gee - colour me whelmed.  :(  Energy weapons are a light fighter’s weapon of preference for a reason, and the F-14-S does nothing to confound that received wisdom.  This was a shakey sort of ‘upgrade’ in 3050; in 3067, when a body of experience with foundtech has been built up, it’s positively risible.  ::)

  [VARIANT PROPOSAL(S) REDACTED] All proposed fan-variants - including my own - belong in the corresponding "FotW Workshop" thread: http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,2199.0.html

  Be advised: the attached .txt transcripts of previous runs of this thread contain numerous reader-proposals for variants.  I’ll try to change those out for ’sanitised’ versions of those threads when I can, but I can’t promise it’ll be soon - that’s a lot of ground to cover.  ;)

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Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah ('39 Update)
« Reply #1 on: 24 February 2011, 07:04:27 »
F-** Cheetah – TRO3039 Update
Originally posted 19/20 Mar. 2008.

  You’ll have to forgive my being a little late and a little rushed with this, but it’s passing 2:00a.m. here and as it happened, I wasn’t exactly in a ‘writing’ mood on Wednesday itself.  Those who’ve done it before, please tell me: is turning 31 a cause for congratulation, contemplation, commiseration or inebriation?  :D
  (Part of the delay is actually due to a birthday present that chanman sent me in early January (and only arrived Tuesday - actually well-timed, that!  :P)  Actually playing Crimson Skies has already given me a better view of some of the various craft I’ve been trying to convert to AT2... now, if only I could break the habit of splattering myself all over Waikiki Beach trying to escape the guns of a single Devastator!  #P [metalhealth])


  I’m a little startled to see the mention of the F-11 ‘standard’ Cheetah, which is supposedly in volume production in replacement of the F-10.  Had anyone else heard a whisper about this one before the release of TRO3039?  ???
-> F-11 Cheetah: 25t, 12/18/12/6 (XLFE), 25/20/15 (FA), N: SPL, W: MPL
  Despite its genie-like pop-up appearance in the CBT universe, the F-11 is every bit the ‘well-rounded fighter’ the fluff calls it.  Better operational range, better armour protection (literally by half even before the FAA upgrade), and better hitting power and better TH chances from the armament.  Looks like the FWLM interceptor corps is going to need a resupply of its ‘balls to the wall’ aviator underwear....  :D

  The F-13 Cheetah is an expansion on this theme, albeit taken in a slightly different direction.  Instead of knife-range almost-sure-to-hit weapons, the FWLM (or their Blaker advisors) chose to improve the type’s offensive reach and chances of survival.
-> F-13 Cheetah: 25t, 12/18/12/6 (XLFE), 27/22/18 (HFA), N: SPL, W: 2xERML
  You’ll remember that I’m not really a fan of SLs on ASFs, even the pulse variety, but it keeps the Cheetah ‘feel’, so "meh".  Other than that... well, I never thought I’d ever say this, but this version of the Cheetah is kind’a scary.  It’s got the speed to blaze past (or out-turn) all but a handful of the ASFs ever built (Clan or IS), its HFAA give it the sort of resilience a bird ten or fifteen tons heavier might envy (/me glares at the Rogue), and it’s actually got enough guns to make a real impression once it gets where it’s going:o  Even Seydlitz need to respect this one - that ERLL might give the the SYD-Z4 superior reach and hitting-power, but the Cheetah’s armour offsets that and its multiple MLs mean it can crit the hell out of the Steiner machine when it can get its nose on-target.

  [VARIANT PROPOSAL(S) REDACTED] All proposed fan-variants - including my own - belong in the corresponding "FotW Workshop" thread: http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,2199.0.html

Neufeld

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #2 on: 24 February 2011, 07:54:00 »
Looking at RS3039u it seems that the F-14-S has lost its XL-engine, fuel and armor, reducing it to a variant of F-12-S with the SRM-4 and armor switched for 2xStreakSRM-2.

"Real men and women do not need Terra"
-- Grendel Roberts
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We will be used to subdue the Capellan Confederation. We will be used to bring the Free Worlds League to heel. We will be used to
hunt bandits and support corrupt rulers and to reinforce the evils of the Inner Sphere that drove our ancestors from it so long ago."
-- Elias Crichell

Trace Coburn

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #3 on: 24 February 2011, 08:41:04 »
Looking at RS3039u it seems that the F-14-S has lost its XL-engine, fuel and armor, reducing it to a variant of F-12-S with the SRM-4 and armor switched for 2xStreakSRM-2.
* Trace Coburn opens his copy of RS3039

  ... how do you figure?  ???  It's an awkwardness of that style of ASF RS that (AFAICT) it doesn't show fuel-capacity or engine-type, but the armament and armour layout (4t weapons + 5.5t armour on the F-14-S, compared to 2.5t weapons and 3t armour on the F-10) mean that weight had to have been saved somewhere, and with the speed still 12/18, an XLFE is pretty much the only way to achieve that.   :-X

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #4 on: 24 February 2011, 08:48:31 »
* Trace Coburn opens his copy of RS3039

  ... how do you figure?  ???  It's an awkwardness of that style of ASF RS that (AFAICT) it doesn't show fuel-capacity or engine-type, but the armament and armour layout (4t weapons + 5.5t armour on the F-14-S, compared to 2.5t weapons and 3t armour on the F-10) mean that weight had to have been saved somewhere, and with the speed still 12/18, an XLFE is pretty much the only way to achieve that.   :-X

Well, my RS3039unabridged shows 240 points of fuel, and 32 points of armor (9/7/9). Which gives 3 tons of fuel, 2 tons of armor, and 3.5 tons of weapons and ammo (2xSSRM2, SL, 1 tons of ammo).

EDIT:
Add 13.5 tons of SFE 250, and 3 tons of cockpit gives: 13.5 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 3.5 = 25
« Last Edit: 24 February 2011, 08:51:33 by Neufeld »

"Real men and women do not need Terra"
-- Grendel Roberts
"
We will be used to subdue the Capellan Confederation. We will be used to bring the Free Worlds League to heel. We will be used to
hunt bandits and support corrupt rulers and to reinforce the evils of the Inner Sphere that drove our ancestors from it so long ago."
-- Elias Crichell

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #5 on: 24 February 2011, 08:56:21 »
Yeah, but we have a different problem here.

Comparing the two record sheets side by side, the armor and fuel load are a lot lighter in RS3039U, while it gained a small laser.  However, the stats in RS3039 match those from AT2R.  The description in TRO3039 (both the first and corrected second printings) seems to support the stats presented in RS3039U.  Complicating the matter is the fact that RS3039U is known to have had a lot of errors in the vehicle section, so I'm not quite willing to call it authoritative on anything at this point.

Considering the way different sources are doing things (and that we have consistent references on both sides) it may be time to toss this one to Ask the Developers and let them explain what's going on.

EDIT: I'll post it.  I want to do some supplementary research to see if I can run any other references down for them.

EDIT 2: So Objective Raids does have fighter descriptions.  Huh.  Never read that part of the book closely enough, I suppose.  But it does support the AT2R/RS3039 side of things.

EDIT 3: It's posted.
« Last Edit: 24 February 2011, 09:05:18 by Moonsword »

Trace Coburn

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #6 on: 24 February 2011, 09:15:57 »
  You guys keep saying 'unabridged' and 'RS3039U'.  What the heck are you talking about?  ???  I'm working with a copy of RS3039 with a DL date of 01/Feb/2010, and I never heard anything about it being updated!   :-\  [tickedoff] [metalhealth]

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #7 on: 24 February 2011, 09:21:02 »
CGL released an Unabridged version of the sheets using the Total Warfare style late last year.  It wasn't an update to the existing RS3039 and has Succession Wars-era variants that weren't in there as well as the SW-era Unseen.

Then they discovered there were a lot of, uh, glitches in the software used to generate the sheets and pulled it back off the shelves for revision.  Neufeld and I both purchased it before that point but, as indicated, I'm not sure what the heck is going on there given that everything before TRO3039 says one thing and is matched by RS3039, then RS3039U and TRO3039 go somewhere else.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #8 on: 24 February 2011, 09:33:33 »
CGL released an Unabridged version of the sheets using the Total Warfare style late last year.  It wasn't an update to the existing RS3039 and has Succession Wars-era variants that weren't in there as well as the SW-era Unseen.

Then they discovered there were a lot of, uh, glitches in the software used to generate the sheets and pulled it back off the shelves for revision.  Neufeld and I both purchased it before that point but, as indicated, I'm not sure what the heck is going on there given that everything before TRO3039 says one thing and is matched by RS3039, then RS3039U and TRO3039 go somewhere else.
  ... and I missed the chance to pick it up, dodgy stats or not?   [tickedoff]
  [THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED TO REMOVE THREE PAGES OF PROFANITY THAT WOULD HORRIFY 4CHAN.ORG]
  ...
  ...
  ... in that case, here's hoping that '39U gets fixed and re-offered to the purchasing public sometime soon.   #P

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #9 on: 24 February 2011, 09:39:54 »
They should be soon.  I seem to recall a statement that they're working on it.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #10 on: 25 February 2011, 15:04:20 »
Any plans to review the unarmed recon Cheetah from XTRO: Marik?
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #11 on: 25 February 2011, 15:42:35 »
It does two things very well: do reconnaissance and act as skeet.  Maybe distract the enemy.  Frankly, unless you're looking for suicide ramming (for which purpose I'd use something less expensive and less useful for recon), I'm not sure there's really any other use for that design.  It's excellent at what it does, though.

I'm sure Trace will get to it in time, though.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #12 on: 25 February 2011, 18:48:26 »
It does two things very well: do reconnaissance and act as skeet.  Maybe distract the enemy.  Frankly, unless you're looking for suicide ramming (for which purpose I'd use something less expensive and less useful for recon), I'm not sure there's really any other use for that design.  It's excellent at what it does, though.

I'm sure Trace will get to it in time, though.
  Can't promise that'll be soon, though.  Besides having all the reposts to deal with, and the TRO'85 designs for full, fresh columns once those are done, for some reason the 'national' XTROs just... haven't hooked me into buying them, the way most of the other XTROs have.  :-\

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #13 on: 25 February 2011, 23:24:37 »
Mind if I post addendums for the X-variants in your threads, then? While some are rather blah, and others are really weird, some are actually really cool, and many show lots of imagination.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
There's no shame in designing customs, so long as you keep them private and wash your hands afterwards.

Trace Coburn

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #14 on: 26 February 2011, 07:36:57 »
Mind if I post addendums for the X-variants in your threads, then? While some are rather blah, and others are really weird, some are actually really cool, and many show lots of imagination.
  Be my guest.  O0

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #15 on: 23 August 2012, 12:46:28 »
...and almost exactly a year and a half later, I finally get of my ass and do it!

XTRO: Marik gave us an interesting refit of the Cheetah, designed at the request of Stone's coalition for a recon fighter to support their planned invasion of the Blake Protectorate. The resulting OF-17 "Hawkeye" Cheetah was everything Stone wanted, and judging by what they got, Adam Steiner must have been the guy writing the request since they got something totally dedicated to gathering information.

The OF-17 keeps the blistering speed profile of other Cheetahs intact, using a 250XL torch to pull it off. The armor is as thin as it's ever been, though switching to stealth plating does wonders for the craft's survivability. After all, who is really going to be able to quickly close with a Cheetah that doesn't want to be anywhere near you? Faster birds than this do exist, but even they will take a while to catch up to something this fast. While the stealth features can be difficult to use in space, ballistic flights do make it possible(and advised, given the four-ton fuel bay), and even under power, the ECM provides additional protection.

You remember how I said that this Cheetah was totally dedicated to gathering information? The armament reflects this, in that it is missing entirely. All of the OF-17's warload is dedicated to intel-gathering sensors, in the form of a Hyperspectral Imager. Those of you unfamiliar with this piece of equipment are advised to crack open Tactical Operations right now, and see what it can do. I won't spoil everything, but the gist is that if your ground forces can have a Cheetah do a high pass or two ahead of their advance(and by high, I mean all the way up to low orbit), ambushes are not a problem. In space, treat this thing like a Terran Hegemony corvette: boost up to a good speed, go ballistic before entering enemy sensor range, and take all the pictures of naughty enemies doing naughty things you want, with them none the wiser.

As with all ASFs, the Hawkeye does retain a decent bomb capacity, with the same 5 tons at 11/17 of earlier Cheetahs. While most recon mission profiles are strictly snoop 'n scoot, this can come in handy, either hauling extra gas for improve the plane's legs or hauling something a tad more explosive, in case you find something that really needs to be blown up right now. Such a loaded Cheetah should probably be treated like a cross between today's SR-71 and F-117, able to 'quietly' cross enemy airspace at blistering speed to drop a small bombload on a single target.

How to use this plane? Scoot in, snoop, and scoot out. You can insert "blow one thing up" in between steps two and three, but it should be remembered that the moment anyone starts shooting at you the entire plan can be condensed into the final step.

How to kill this? Aside from ambushes, my advise would be to bring lots of guns. Seriously, as hard as this bugger will be to hit, you need to throw as many to-hit rolls as possible if you want even one or two to connect. BFGs are not the order of the day here.

Shortly after the OF-17's debut, Imstar rolled out a modified variant in the form of the OF-17A-R, which eventually became the main production model. Apparently RAF pilots agree with me in saying "Whu?" to this, as the production -A-R is most certainly a step down from the original Hawkeye. Largely identical to the previous model, the only real change was made at the request of Coalition members that I will generously refer to as "Lyrans Of Unusual Density." The LOUDs could not grasp the concept that a reconnaissance craft's mission doesn't exactly involve shooting anyone, though at least they were talked out of a heavy forward armament in favor of a pair of defensive small lasers. Where did they get the mass for that, you ask? From the pilot, of course! The Hawkeye A-R's cockpit has been replaced with a Small model, so RAF pilots who perfected the art of not going crazy during those days-long coasting flights now had to learn how to do it all over again, this time with their knees pushed up by their chins. Understandably, Republic snooper-jockeys are not impressed with this, and request the older model every time they can. The only other alteration done to this airframe was the downgrading of the cooling system to single heat sinks. That's right. Now, not only can you no longer keep that life-saving stealth armor active even in the face of engine hits, but extended use of the lasers they foisted on you also requires you to switch the armor off, even without damage! [metalhealth]

How to use this plane? Same as the original, with the caveat that forgetting you're equipped with guns is a good thing. About the only time I'd use them is if you're tailed by someone just as fast as you, since that kind of speed usually means they're not armored against such damage. Even then, ride the heat scale as high as you can, only shutting off the stealth armor if he's already in the phone booth with you and nobody else is around.

How to beat this plane? Again, same song, second verse. About the only thing I'd add would be that plasma can be useful here, as you really don't need to put much on target to start forcing control rolls, potentially lethal ones. Using spies, politicos, and scandals to get LOUDs in command of the recon wing would also work.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
There's no shame in designing customs, so long as you keep them private and wash your hands afterwards.

Neufeld

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #16 on: 24 August 2012, 05:24:24 »
I have to wonder if the small lasers were a case of intentional hampering instead of just stupidity. The Lyrans does not use the OF-17A-R themselves after all. A few suggestions from the Archon or Loki in the right ear might have caused the whole request for weapons.

"Real men and women do not need Terra"
-- Grendel Roberts
"
We will be used to subdue the Capellan Confederation. We will be used to bring the Free Worlds League to heel. We will be used to
hunt bandits and support corrupt rulers and to reinforce the evils of the Inner Sphere that drove our ancestors from it so long ago."
-- Elias Crichell

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #17 on: 24 August 2012, 08:00:40 »
Possible. The fluff implies that they were just LOUDs being LOUDs, but I'll accept the possibility that they were just playing to stereotype and actually subtly hampering a potential future enemy. It makes sense that someone smart enough to think that u would end up in Loki: That place is far too secretive and dark for a social general to rise properly.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #18 on: 24 August 2012, 15:35:21 »
Why not just take a couple of droptanks along with on the Recon Bird?

Use a pair for takeoff, and early cruise, and drop them to go over the Bad Guys (tm) really fast on internals only.

FWIW, the SR-71 usually refuelled immediately after take off.  Use a captured ex-CCAF Stork to fill you up right before you go over Bad Guys(tm) is another option.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #19 on: 24 August 2012, 15:42:16 »
Oh, I agree, as noted in the OF-17's writeup. Still don't like the idea of the small cockpit. After sitting in that thing for a few days, I think there'd be some pretty serious fatigue penalties there...
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
There's no shame in designing customs, so long as you keep them private and wash your hands afterwards.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #20 on: 24 August 2012, 17:07:33 »
FWIW, the SR-71 usually refuelled immediately after take off.
it did, but that was mainly because it leaked like a seive when not in flight. they could never figure out how to design a fueltank that would fit into the fuselage space, be sealed at ground level, and remain intact at mach 3+. so they wound up designing the tanks to seal up from thermal expansion at mach 1+, and when flying slower than that it left a trail of fuel. they'd fill it up on the ground, and by the time it took off and reached operational altitude, it usually had half it's fuel gone already. so they'd refuel mid air (flying just above stall speed while the tanker redlined it's engines), and immediately kick it up to supersonic speeds afterwards. of course, the huge engines guzzled fuel even when the afterburners weren't on (it was one of the only aircraft designed to 'cruise' on afterburners), so even if the tanks hadn't leaked the plane probably would have needed to refuel right after anyway, there just would have been a bigger window to reach the tanker.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #21 on: 24 August 2012, 21:59:40 »
*looks at the OF-17.*

*looks at the OF-17A-R.*

You know, I'm the kind of guy who normally thinks that adding more guns to a design can't hurt, but this is an exception. I could understand the rationale behind adding those Small Lasers. I could understand the rationale behind the Small Cockpit. I wouldn't agree, but that's a difference in design thought, and who am I to say they're wrong? What I don't understand is switching the DHS out for singles!
« Last Edit: 24 August 2012, 22:01:19 by Terrace »

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #22 on: 24 August 2012, 22:43:26 »
IIRC, small lasers used to be usable for point defense in aerotech. perhaps that version's stats date back to that point?

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #23 on: 25 August 2012, 02:04:38 »
IIRC, small lasers used to be usable for point defense in aerotech. perhaps that version's stats date back to that point?

They're still listed as point defense weapons on the Aerospace Weapon Classes table at the very end of TechManual (in fact, they don't seem to count as "lasers" at all), and StratOps has the rules on how to use them in that role. So it's a possibility, though IMO still pretty marginal.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #24 on: 25 August 2012, 07:15:27 »
It's a -4 on the cluster hits table (I think) pretty useful for a half-ton

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #25 on: 25 August 2012, 16:52:02 »
Given that aero has no cluster hits table, I'm certain that's not how they work.

Non-AMS point defense subtracts half of its damage from a single incoming missile flight.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
There's no shame in designing customs, so long as you keep them private and wash your hands afterwards.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #26 on: 25 August 2012, 18:23:08 »
how does it handle single missile 'volleys' like thunderbolt's or the air to air missiles?

given that the Light AAM and air-to-Air Arrow munitions are likely to be copied and spread throughout much of the successor states, perhaps the addition of the lasers was intended as a means to give the fighter the ability to try and shoot down such weapons? against LRM's a pair of small lasers probably wouldn't give much protection, but against single missile's that could reliably kill a Cheetah in one hit, it might provide some advantage.

which would make the review ironic, since the lasers would be intended to survive encountering LOUD's..
« Last Edit: 25 August 2012, 18:25:41 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #025 (repost) - Cheetah
« Reply #27 on: 25 August 2012, 18:43:01 »
Same as against smaller missile sawrms. In-universe, think of it as damaging the incoming missile so that the warhead does not function as effectively.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
There's no shame in designing customs, so long as you keep them private and wash your hands afterwards.