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Author Topic: XTRO Succession wars 1  (Read 22103 times)

False Son

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #150 on: 20 November 2012, 10:29:48 »
Paint "Milk" on the side.  The enemy will part ranks to let it in.
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BirdofPrey

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #151 on: 20 November 2012, 11:49:40 »
Those are the prototype freezers from Historical 3039 and Sword & Dragon.  They're like normal DHS but they can be mixed with standard HS, and cannot be engine-mounted.
The fluff of the Super Griffin mentioned the heatsinks had the same size and mass as refular SHS, which is what had me confused.  the MAD mentioned they were added outside the engine which does fit the sheet.

We really need a Master Equipment List that says where every piece of equipment and every construction rule is published .
WarShips were not extinct during the Succession Wars. There were at least 400-odd tooling around in Clan space, and there are known WarShips that are post-Exodus designs that were apparently withdrawn/lost/other prior to the Clan Invasion.

Therefore these ships were only active during the...Succession Wars. 8)
Don't be facetious, you know I was talking about IS warships.

I would take an XTRO: Golden Century and 2SW XTRO that details efforts to keep the last remaining warships in operation.

So am I the only one who thinks the downsides of using proto-improved jumpjets are worth it to get an improved jumpjet that weighs half as much and takes half the space?

'Cause I could totally work with that.
I was thinking that as well.  On a pogo-stick mech, there's a huge chance of explosion, but that's a pretty heavu jump bonus.  I wanna see a retrotech mech that sports these with CASE II to mitigate the risks.


The Flea does a nice job to demonstrate why extralight mechs never went mainstream: a slightly heavier  design can be better armed and armored with more mobility.  Still, they are cheap, so I wouldn't mind seeing a couple more as some sort of backwater patrol mech, or a top of the line police mech (middle and bottom road would be militiamechs which are industrial mechs.)

Sartris

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #152 on: 20 November 2012, 12:03:52 »
Paint "Milk" on the side.  The enemy will part ranks to let it in.

I was thinking ice cream truck

StCptMara

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #153 on: 20 November 2012, 12:06:24 »
I find myself trying to find a way to use that Explodo Buffalo that doesn't smack of cheese. Maybe the booby trap doesn't do quite as much damage as I'm fearing...

I am going to be using them LOTS in my jihad campaign during scour....except, of course, mine won't be "drones"
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MadCapellan

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #154 on: 20 November 2012, 12:09:42 »
I was thinking that as well.  On a pogo-stick mech, there's a huge chance of explosion, but that's a pretty heavu jump bonus.  I wanna see a retrotech mech that sports these with CASE II to mitigate the risks.

I'd say the biggest problem with that would be the crippling heat.  Double heat for jumping winds up generating a crippling amount of heat for something that wants to jump more than five hexes.  It's pretty much worthless without double heat sinks, and questionable with them.  The idea of a prototype improved jump jet Phoenix Hawk sounds tempting, but 18 heat means that if it uses it's fancy jump jets to their full potential, it's not going to do much else after leaping, and that's without taking into the account that it's just become a large bomb.

Diamondshark

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #155 on: 20 November 2012, 12:15:58 »
Ooh, that means the Capellans will love it! Just give it a booby trap and some MG/Inferno ammo, and send it in!  :D
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Atlas3060

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #156 on: 20 November 2012, 12:33:25 »
it's not going to do much else after leaping, and that's without taking into the account that it's just become a large bomb.
So a fun and dangerous way to scout in a double blind game, but much like the LAM not really worth it in the end.

I'll still pick one up for fun, might even change it to use ballistics and missiles more because of the heat. Also if it blows up hopefully the damage will take some enemies with it.  :)
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Scotty

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #157 on: 20 November 2012, 12:37:52 »
I'd say the biggest problem with that would be the crippling heat.  Double heat for jumping winds up generating a crippling amount of heat for something that wants to jump more than five hexes.  It's pretty much worthless without double heat sinks, and questionable with them.  The idea of a prototype improved jump jet Phoenix Hawk sounds tempting, but 18 heat means that if it uses it's fancy jump jets to their full potential, it's not going to do much else after leaping, and that's without taking into the account that it's just become a large bomb.

If it meant a 9-ton sink for nine hexes of jump and only nine crits (instead of the eighteen of both that IJJs would normally cost on that frame), I'd be just as happy making up the crit deficit with more heatsinks (that can be used when not jumping, too) and coming up with six extra tons to spend on other fun gear and a net 12 heat for that nine hex jump (discounting free heatsinks).  CASE II immediately comes to mind to mitigate the potential Bad Things that come with exploding components.

Come to think of it, using SHSs with Proto-IJJs wouldn't be terrible, either.  You'd spend 9 tons on jumpjets, and then for the exact same cost in both crits and tonnage as normal IJJs, you can plug in nine more heatsinks for a wash in heat and tonnage, while retaining a nine-hex jump (and more heatsinks to use).

Perfect?  No.  Terrible?  Not really.
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MadCapellan

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #158 on: 20 November 2012, 13:01:07 »
If it meant a 9-ton sink for nine hexes of jump and only nine crits (instead of the eighteen of both that IJJs would normally cost on that frame), I'd be just as happy making up the crit deficit with more heatsinks (that can be used when not jumping, too) and coming up with six extra tons to spend on other fun gear and a net 12 heat for that nine hex jump (discounting free heatsinks).  CASE II immediately comes to mind to mitigate the potential Bad Things that come with exploding components.

Jump jets on 'Mechs that are 55 tons or lighter weigh a half ton.  Improved jump jets for that weight weigh a single ton.  The Phoenix Hawk's current jump jets weigh three tons.  It would be 4.5 tons to give it 9 Jumping MP with prototype improved jump jets, and 9 tons to give it 9 jumping MP with improved jump jets.  The improved jump jets will generate 5 heat for jumping nine hexes, which is less than the standard jump jets generate to cover six.  The prototype ones would generate 18 and can explode.  I'll take the standard improved jump jets, thanks.

You are right about one thing, however.  Prototype improved jump jets are actually pretty desirable on heavier 'Mechs that don't have a lot of Jump MP to begin with.  You could increase the jump of a Victor to 6 for only two tons more, the number of additional explosive crits would be minimal, and with double heat sinks and plenty of tonnage you could easily sink the additional heat. 

I don't think prototype improved jump jets are all that desirable on the lighter, faster end of things.  0.5 tons at 2 heat per MP isn't very desirable compared to 1 ton with 1/2 a heat point per MP on 'Mechs 55 tons or less.  At the top end of the scale, howwever, 1.5 ton jets are infinitely more justifiable over 3 ton ones.
« Last Edit: 20 November 2012, 13:07:02 by MadCapellan »

Youngblood

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #159 on: 20 November 2012, 13:14:04 »
If you could get your hands on both those jets and a LosTech Gauss Rifle, that would be one heat problem you wouldn't really need to worry about.

EDIT: Heck, it'd be effective even with an AC/10.  The saved tonnage compared to a Gauss Rifle can be used for extra Single sinks to more than make up for the extra heat.
« Last Edit: 20 November 2012, 13:22:16 by Youngblood »

StCptMara

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #160 on: 20 November 2012, 13:24:08 »
Actually, the big thing is that the prototypes do NOT take up extra Crits, either...That is a BIG deal.
Say you wanted to take a 'mech, give it a Partial Wing, Prototype-IJJs, and DHS....NOTE: Not prototype DHS,
but full fledged, modern DHS...taking an existing design and, basicly, retro-fitting it with Prototype-IJJs instead
of the current IJJS...consider the snubbie packing Pixie with IJJ-Ps and a Partial Wing(and any extra tonnage into
some extra DHS)
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MadCapellan

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #161 on: 20 November 2012, 13:34:12 »
Actually, the big thing is that the prototypes do NOT take up extra Crits, either...That is a BIG deal.
Say you wanted to take a 'mech, give it a Partial Wing, Prototype-IJJs, and DHS....NOTE: Not prototype DHS,
but full fledged, modern DHS...taking an existing design and, basicly, retro-fitting it with Prototype-IJJs instead
of the current IJJS...consider the snubbie packing Pixie with IJJ-Ps and a Partial Wing(and any extra tonnage into
some extra DHS)

Well, fifteen heat is still extremely steep for a 'Mech which would ultimately have 22 heat dissipation, but 11 jumping MP is absolutely nothing to sneeze at.  The existing PXH-7K has the advantage of being able to fire its two weapons all the live-long day.  With prototype IJJs and partial wing, you could only fire the ER Medium without heat-build up, and side torso breaches wouldn't be pretty.  Still, hardly a dead end piece of equipment, it seems.
« Last Edit: 20 November 2012, 13:39:29 by MadCapellan »

jymset

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #162 on: 20 November 2012, 14:30:08 »
The Original Super Wasp didn't use Endo (It' hadn't been invented yet) but rather a custom skeleton that weighted half as much, my guess is that TPTB didn't want to go either of those routes so they came up with something different

<switches on debunk-urban-legends mode>

Only half true. It did not feature ES, but it also did not feature any lighter internal structure whatsoever. It was simply 1 ton overweight. The best explanation I've heard is that it reused the armour of the Battle Droids Wasp, which was 1 ton overweight, too.

Best I can tell, the legend about lighter internal structure can be traced back to my favourite loooooong dead website, "Wars in the Inner Sphere" which featured the infamous "Technical Readout: Legends" that presented apocryphal, abandoned, or fluff variant designs. It presented the ES solution.

My gaming group, for instance, always played it as a 8/12/4 design.

So clearly, another solution next to prototype ES was deemed more appropriate for this publication.


On the HS debate: some things change. Early incarnations of the Freezer rules had them at 1 crit, but they have been solidified into their current status in at least two publications.
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Weirdo

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #163 on: 20 November 2012, 14:38:37 »
Realization: If playing on the military base mapsheets from Map Set 7(?), a player that drives a BFFL Drone Bomb against the wall and detonates it, it will do enough damage that each wall hex adjacent to it will be destroyed, and reduced to a Level 1 gravel pile. In addition, the BFFL's own hex will become a depth 1 crater.

To describe the blast in other terms: While the blast radius is far smaller, this thing will do five times as much raw damage at the point of impact as a Davy Crockett nuke. :o
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Martius

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #164 on: 20 November 2012, 14:42:28 »
Yes.  Is it not a beauty?

I want some. And then some more.

Atlas3060

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #165 on: 20 November 2012, 14:43:17 »
Realization: If playing on the military base mapsheets from Map Set 7(?), a player that drives a BFFL Drone Bomb against the wall and detonates it, it will do enough damage that each wall hex adjacent to it will be destroyed, and reduced to a Level 1 gravel pile. In addition, the BFFL's own hex will become a depth 1 crater.

To describe the blast in other terms: While the blast radius is far smaller, this thing will do five times as much raw damage at the point of impact as a Davy Crockett nuke. :o
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False Son

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #166 on: 20 November 2012, 14:44:29 »
I think my Liberation Units will have a new toy.
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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #167 on: 20 November 2012, 14:45:56 »
In plain language, the blast damage from this thing is 500/250/125/63, from the BFFL's own hex. I'm already scouring Z-scale sites for suitable minis.
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False Son

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #168 on: 20 November 2012, 14:51:57 »
I find myself in a weird place.  As someone who loathes the Succession Wars, I enjoyed this product.  I'm glad it was using technologies in Tac Ops and not just more lv1 designs or 1.5 or something equally cop out.  Good job you crazy writers.

Also, love for the League?  Money well spent.
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DarkISI

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #169 on: 20 November 2012, 15:05:12 »
Good job you crazy writers.

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #170 on: 20 November 2012, 15:17:03 »
In plain language, the blast damage from this thing is 500/250/125/63, from the BFFL's own hex. I'm already scouring Z-scale sites for suitable minis.
An air horn is now mandatory for the suicide charge of this thing.  Also, if you manage to blow it up on an engine or ammo crit, does the thing just die right there or can it potentially go off in the middle of an enemy formation?

Liam's Ghost

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #171 on: 20 November 2012, 16:29:46 »
That buffalo will probably fit nicely into any hypothetical reunification war campaign as well.

In plain language, the blast damage from this thing is 500/250/125/63, from the BFFL's own hex. I'm already scouring Z-scale sites for suitable minis.

Might I suggest brigade models Sci fi line? They've got a fair number of hover type vehicle.

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I am Belch II

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #172 on: 20 November 2012, 17:23:26 »
Soarce Super Heavy Tank, pretty neat. Reminds me of the German Maus of WW2, very big and slow, and equipped to wade across a river becuase there was no bridge that could take it.
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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #173 on: 20 November 2012, 17:27:22 »
It *is* a Maus. As a result, I'm going to enjoy taunting a buddy with it. He loves history and WWII in particular, and hates House Marik. >:D

Also, it seems tailor-made to be represented by the giant Demolisher mini IWM still has...  O0
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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #174 on: 20 November 2012, 18:09:32 »
My good friend Youngblood pointed out that the Soarece would be a blast to use in a modern game with special AC ammo.  Precision for my plinkety-plinkety, AP for my boom-stick!

Weirdo

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #175 on: 20 November 2012, 18:15:06 »
Oh, definitely. Marik players should take note that while the Soarece's fluff says it was rare, it says nothing about the tank being extinct. Sounds like something fun to throw into a planetary militia, or even corporate security. Betcha Imperator would love to have one or two of these outside their main plant, backed up by their custom Tokugawas...
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
There's no shame in designing customs, so long as you keep them private and wash your hands afterwards.

Atlas3060

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #176 on: 20 November 2012, 18:21:22 »
My new experimental Marauder, this tank, and maybe some normal bodyguard units for a fun Marik force!
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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #177 on: 20 November 2012, 18:22:59 »
I know it's been said many times here, but i want to add my voice to congratulate CGL for this product. I really like its content and the covert image is soooooo cooooool !!  O0
A very good quality product.  :))
It is the rule in war, if ten times the enemy's strength, surround them; if five times, attack them; if double, be able to divide them; if equal, engage them; if fewer, be able to evade them; if weaker, be able to avoid them.
All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #178 on: 20 November 2012, 19:09:32 »
I also want to salute CGL for still using Doug's art.  Other designs aside, the Kiso looks deliciously badass.  The concept makes me wonder what I could do with a Xanthos, now...or for that matter a modded Kiso, perhaps with some self-defense capability.  Or maybe a ground-mobile HPG in the modern era and some more communications equipment and maybe a C3 master...

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Re: XTRO Succession wars 1
« Reply #179 on: 20 November 2012, 19:32:38 »
For those that have asked for where to find the prototype gear rules that aren't covered in this book they can pretty much all be found in Historical: War of 3039 (H:Wo39) or Starterbook: Sword & Dragon (S:S&D)

Code: [Select]
Item                                H:Wo39        S:S&D
----                                ------        -----
Listen-Kill Missiles                  X
Prototype DHS (aka Freezers)          X             X
Prototype UAC5                        X             X
Prototype LB-10X                      X             X
Prototype Gauss Rifle                 X             X
Prototype ER Large Laser              X             X
Prototype Medium Pulse Laser          X             X
Anti-TSM Gas Missiles (LRM & SRM)     X
Prototype Endo-Steel                  X             X
Prototype Ferro-Fibrous               X             X
Pseudo-Prototype NARC (#)                           X
Pseudo-Prototype TSM (#)                            X
Pseudo-Prototype CASE (#)                           X

(#) I say pseudo because they're not really prototypes.  So, if you're just interested in the gear and nothing else, H:Wo3039 is what you want.
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