Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL  (Read 14795 times)

Moonsword

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Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« on: 13 April 2013, 13:00:08 »
Vehicle of the Week: Gossamer VTOL

Yeah, I know, it's been a while.  We're not strictly off hiatus but here's one of my contributions to the TRO3145 Mercenaries preview, the Gossamer!  (The other contribution will be the Hound on the 26th.)

The Gossamer, a Snow Raven VTOL referring to a light sort of fabric or spider silk, is perhaps slighty misnamed.  As VTOLs go, the design is relatively hardy and on the heavy side.  Intended as a fast response unit piloted by freebirths and solahma, it frequently finds itself stationed on worlds to defend them against pirate raids where full DropShip support isn't available.  That's a theory we've heard before and it doesn't really work that well on a large scale.  While the design is faster than the Trireme, the flight time means that 'rapid' is only within a fairly limited area.  Even going all-out, a Gossamer will top out at under 240 kph, making their ability to respond rapid compared to most ground units but really poor on a continental scale if your opponent has access to DropShips of their own.  Pirates usually do, so you need ASFs to keep them on the ground or you need to base the Gossamers near targets of real interest.  Strategic oddities aside, the Gossamer has been exported to multiple factions through the Sea Foxes since it was introduced in 3123, including but not necessarily limited to the Republic, the Lyrans, and the Free Worlds League.  The Nova Cats had several on hand when they rebelled against the Combine, as well.  About the only faction we can guarantee doesn't use them at this point is the Combine, which the Foxes were forbidden to sell them to.  The Ravens also use the VTOLs as scouts and fast attack units when they go pirate hunting.  Visually, the design is striking and more than a little unconventional with a center-mounted fan instead of the normal top-mounted rotors but the execution of the artwork is superb, one of the hallmarks of TRO3145.

As I noted before, the Gossamer is on the heavy end for a combat VTOL at 25 tons.  With a pure Clantech design, the unit has plenty of potential, starting with the cost conscious decision to use a Consolidated 135 fusion engine that gives a 183 kph flank speed and complete freedom from refueling in any meaningful sense.  (While they'll eventually need some more hydrogen, the game doesn't track this for ground units or prop-driven fixed-wing SVs because the requirement is effectively a maintenance task, not the same sort of frequent necessity like refueling would be for an ICE.)  Three tons of Compound FM3 ferro-fibrous arranged 23/16/10/2 makes the Gossamer annoyingly hard to shoot down when you combine it with the VTOL's high speed.  It's not impossible to score a single-shot kill if you hit it hard enough (aside from the front, where there aren't ground weapons around that deal enough damage to a single location to blow it away in one hit, although an HGR at short range will leave one point of structure behind), but that kind of armor is fairly high for a VTOL, and movement modifiers that will routinely be in the +4 range or higher make flak weaponry or pulse lasers necessary for reliably tagging these fast, nimble predators.  Speaking of pulse lasers, a trio of Series 14a MPLs uses the engine's free heat sinks and then some, giving the Gossamer a nasty bite at medium ranges and making it a lethally effective hunter of light 'Mechs.  Even larger 'Mechs aren't going to enjoy being harried by that kind of laser fire.

The only variant known is a Raven Alliance exclusive that trades the weapons and engine for an XLFE of the same size and an LB 10-X with a single ton of ammo.  The TRO theorizes that this variant is intended as a VTOL hunter and personally, I don't see any other reason to use that particular weapon here other than going after vehicles.  If you want longer ranged firepower, a Clan large laser of either the ER or pulse variety would be more effective, meaning the cluster ammo is probably what the designer was thinking of.  Against VTOLs, the accuracy of LB-X cluster is handy and the way the pellets can rack up motive or rotor hits will slow them down for other units (such as standard Gossamers) to make the kill with less accurate but more focused weapons.  You can also use them to provide some crit-seeking to the fast-moving Gossamer Stars.

Operating Gossamers requires you to remember that while this is a relatively tough VTOL, your primary defense is not getting hit, so don't slow down.  Dash into range, spray someone with lasers, and then blast past them so you can turn around and do it again.  Don't be afraid to risk a sideslip if you're not at nap-of-the-earth heights, either, and you need to make a tight turn - if you can't hit anything, sideslipping is a lot less dangerous than it is for hovers.  If an enemy demonstrates they have flak weapons, you probably don't want to leave them around - hit them from behind and try to take them out fast.  The Republic lost a flight of these charging straight into massed defenses - don't do that.  Hit someone's flanks and eat their scouts alive, don't try to go toe to toe with the big boys unless you can isolate them.

Countering Gossamers requires hitting them.  The best way to accomplish that is with flak weapons, pulse lasers, or targeting computers; I recommend LB-X cluster ammo, HAGs, or an SB Gauss, personally.  The cluster effect will hopefully slow them down so you can bring them down faster.  One suggestion from Paul was to try a DFA attack.  I'm a little more uncertain but he has a point that it's got a good chance of taking one right out of the air and getting their altitude out of the equation.

References: Right now, the MUL doesn't have the TRO3145 units up yet and we're well inside Sarna's moratorium, let alone IWM's production cycle, so there aren't any references.  Instead, I'll just link to the artwork directly.
« Last Edit: 14 April 2013, 09:49:27 by Moonsword »

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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #1 on: 15 April 2013, 11:21:59 »
I'm honestly not sure which VTOL from 3145 I want to try out first, the Lamprey or this beauty... [drool]
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Moonsword

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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #2 on: 15 April 2013, 11:31:48 »
*eyes the Lamprey closely*

What, you've never used the Cavalry's infantry variant before?  This is his slower, fatter, SRM-loving cousin.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #3 on: 15 April 2013, 11:57:39 »
love this ones artwork
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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #4 on: 15 April 2013, 12:36:55 »
*eyes the Lamprey closely*

What, you've never used the Cavalry's infantry variant before?  This is his slower, fatter, SRM-loving cousin.

I have, but the Lamprey has 50% more Hind. 8)
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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #5 on: 15 April 2013, 13:02:46 »
This is another unit that I'm excited to take into battle.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #6 on: 15 April 2013, 14:14:40 »
I like this design overall. My two critiques are

1) lack of Ferro Lamellor armor. After 3090, I don't see the point in not including it, especially in a Snow Raven design. It's not that this is the be-all/end-all of armors for VTOLs, but... well, it is. You still get the motive damage, but with that many MP, even a nasty dose of flak won't keep the Gossamer from limping home.

2) The trio of CMPLs are highly useful, but lack long-range punch. With a VTOL, you want that TMM backed up by a range modifier if possible. OTOH, this unit "fills the strike role and makes no concessions for any other consideration". That's a classic clan vehicle philosophy. Charging in and cutting loose is the Clan Way (tm). The fact that it's pulse lasers comes in especially handy considering clan vehicle crews.

Also, just as a side note, I'm surprised not to see the tandem rotor quirk show up here. Considering the eclectic motive system, it would seem appropriate.

The TRO entry does a great job illustrating the strengths and weaknesses of the design. The artwork is superb (agree totally with Dragon Cat and Moonsword on this point). And not having used it yet, it looks like the design really will deliver if you use it correctly.




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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #7 on: 15 April 2013, 16:07:25 »
I'm honestly not sure which VTOL from 3145 I want to try out first, the Lamprey or this beauty... [drool]
Or?  Gossamers escorting Lampreys delivering BA squads, gunships over transports!
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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #8 on: 15 April 2013, 16:13:02 »
I still don't see how the  DCMS can't use this.

1. We just wiped out the Cats--know users
2. We raid in Raven Space--Salvage
3. We but it through another layer of intermearies.

I know it wouldn't be common it could work well with Yashaa and Hiryos
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wellspring

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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #9 on: 15 April 2013, 16:21:20 »
I still don't see how the  DCMS can't use this.

1. We just wiped out the Cats--know users
2. We raid in Raven Space--Salvage
3. We but it through another layer of intermearies.

I know it wouldn't be common it could work well with Yashaa and Hiryos

Well, they're VTOLs, not mechs. Shoot one down, and you don't get salvage, you get a flaming pile of wreckage. Buying through intermediaries is certainly possible, but that's more something you do to get a few samples for special purposes than a way to fill out a line unit. No doubt the DCMS could get their hands on a few, but enough to deploy them in noticeable numbers?

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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #10 on: 15 April 2013, 16:38:29 »
And they have to be noticeable for the MUL to list them.  Lack of listing on the MUL means there aren't enough to be notable.  It doesn't necessarily mean there just aren't any.  As always, if you want them at your game, that's your table.  We're not going to send CGL Canon Ninjas to kick your down and take your minis because you don't think the MUL is right.

I should also note that the decision on the Gossamer hasn't been made yet - that was inelegant phrasing on my part.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #11 on: 15 April 2013, 16:51:33 »
Damn.
Do you have to be that upfront?
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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #12 on: 15 April 2013, 19:53:49 »
Why does the artwork have the ten of clubs on the flank?

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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #13 on: 15 April 2013, 22:19:56 »
Unit emblem, personal 'nose art', or somebody won/lost a bet.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #14 on: 16 April 2013, 00:11:26 »
OK, I was just wondering if it meant something in pilot circles

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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #15 on: 16 April 2013, 05:17:53 »
Does the MUL cover all the new Dark Age units?  I don't see the Hound in there at all, so I'd say that it's not yet complete at least...as far as RATs, well, they're hardly exclusive.  Helpful, but not the end-all.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #16 on: 16 April 2013, 07:29:48 »
MUL data usually takes time to be entered into the database. And its going to depend on if they want to release the data on the MUL TRO by TRO, or if they want to do all the 3145 stuff all at once some point in the future.

Hopefully however, all the data is included by the writers for each unit. Long gone should be the days when the MUL team has to dig through old sources to find out information on a unit, all that should (IMO) included with the designs when they're written up. Hopefully for new units, its just data entry.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #17 on: 16 April 2013, 12:59:01 »

1) lack of Ferro Lamellor armor. After 3090, I don't see the point in not including it, especially in a Snow Raven design. It's not that this is the be-all/end-all of armors for VTOLs, but... well, it is. You still get the motive damage, but with that many MP, even a nasty dose of flak won't keep the Gossamer from limping home.

2) The trio of CMPLs are highly useful, but lack long-range punch. With a VTOL, you want that TMM backed up by a range modifier if possible. OTOH, this unit "fills the strike role and makes no concessions for any other consideration". That's a classic clan vehicle philosophy. Charging in and cutting loose is the Clan Way (tm). The fact that it's pulse lasers comes in especially handy considering clan vehicle crews.

I can agree with one, but with two, on a combined arms battlefield, most people choose to NOT shoot at the +5 or +6 THM unit, even if it's right in their face.  Sure you can dedicated yourself to erradicating it while other stuff does their thing, but other than knocking out the rotor, it can take some time unless you brought LB-X.  Then it's a different story and you do want ferro Lamellor  :D

Lots of tasty VTOL's in this edition I want to use... just have to figure out who uses them before I get them and paint them up (when they are produced of course.)

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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #18 on: 16 April 2013, 13:41:47 »
Also, let's not forget hardpoints. At 25 tons, it can fit up to 5 bomb-type munitions and still beat the magic 10/15 MP move rate. Say, RL/10s? Talk about a short-range attack of nasty.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #19 on: 16 April 2013, 14:53:07 »
I have, but the Lamprey has 50% more Hind. 8)

So you're saying the Lamprey's got back?

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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #20 on: 17 April 2013, 21:25:53 »
Someone mentioned the MPLs being good to offset the Clan vehicle crews . . . but as VTOL pilots are generally washed out aeropilots . . . in the Snow Ravens, I am not sure I would make them 5/5.  Especially when that should include the freebirths recruited in.

IMO, Clan vehicle crews being 5/5 should only still be in effect with the Jade Falcons and Crusader Wolves- if them.  The Clans have become more combined arms like the Horses since the Jihad.  Vehicle crews being regular now makes sense.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #21 on: 18 April 2013, 16:59:03 »
Geez, even the Whamm-o frisbee's IIC design is scary.

I like this design overall. My two critiques are

1) lack of Ferro Lamellor armor.

 while an invaluable armor for VTOLs that get shot at, it's as probably as not with the equipment they just don't want the pilots exposing themselves to fire instead of flanking intelligently. the medium pulse lasers suggest that i should instead wait for an opening to get into their rear and shoot give them a directed energy back massage while they fire at machines built to take shots.


Quote
2) The trio of CMPLs are highly useful, but lack long-range punch.

you give the soldiers the weapons they need for their job, not enough weapons for them to decide what their job is. i don't want my flankers pretending they're fire support, you know.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #22 on: 18 April 2013, 18:22:02 »
Someone mentioned the MPLs being good to offset the Clan vehicle crews . . . but as VTOL pilots are generally washed out aeropilots . . . in the Snow Ravens, I am not sure I would make them 5/5.  Especially when that should include the freebirths recruited in.

IMO, Clan vehicle crews being 5/5 should only still be in effect with the Jade Falcons and Crusader Wolves- if them.  The Clans have become more combined arms like the Horses since the Jihad.  Vehicle crews being regular now makes sense.

You can buy whatever skills you want for your pilots and crews. This is an obsolete point of view.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #23 on: 20 April 2013, 06:31:17 »
Ferro Lamellor isn't actually much good for VTOLs, it doesn't protect them against rotor hits/damage, putting a turret on it is a better defence

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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #24 on: 20 April 2013, 10:03:54 »
You can buy whatever skills you want for your pilots and crews. This is an obsolete point of view.

That depends on what sort of game one is playing. Not everyone plays the same way.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #25 on: 20 April 2013, 11:25:06 »
Ferro Lamellor isn't actually much good for VTOLs, it doesn't protect them against rotor hits/damage, putting a turret on it is a better defence

Huh? Sure it does. FL damage reduction is applied after the damage reduction for it being a rotor hit.

What FL doesn't protect you from is motive damage-- a zero-point hit from an LB-X will still cost you one MP. But losing MP is far, far better than crashing due to rotor destruction.

With that said, I do like turrets on VTOLs as well.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #26 on: 21 April 2013, 05:04:03 »
This came up before, it's the fact that the rotor is hit that matters, not weather or nor it suffers any damage

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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #27 on: 21 April 2013, 07:10:50 »
This came up before, it's the fact that the rotor is hit that matters, not weather or nor it suffers any damage

This does not make sense. Are you confusing motive system hits with the damage location called "rotor"? To the best of my knowledge, FL is the hands-down best armor for VTOLs because it completely negates LB-X cluster damage, especially to the rotor location.

That depends on what sort of game one is playing. Not everyone plays the same way.

Actually, Kit, no. Just as Colt Ward used "5/5 pilots" as shorthand for "underskilled vehicle crews," so too did I mean that in-universe and out-, you cannot count on Clan vehicles being staffed by pants-on-head morons anymore.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #28 on: 21 April 2013, 12:29:17 »
Actually, Kit, no. Just as Colt Ward used "5/5 pilots" as shorthand for "underskilled vehicle crews," so too did I mean that in-universe and out-, you cannot count on Clan vehicles being staffed by pants-on-head morons anymore.

So

Quote from: ColBosch
You can buy whatever skills you want for your pilots and crews. This is an obsolete point of view.

means

Quote
you cannot count on Clan vehicles being staffed by pants-on-head morons anymore
and doesn't mean you can buy whatever skills you want for your pilots and crews?
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Re: Vehicle of the Week 3145 Preview: Gossamer VTOL
« Reply #29 on: 21 April 2013, 12:39:40 »
I'm confused. Did I muck up my own point?
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