Author Topic: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle  (Read 60181 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« on: 08 June 2014, 12:16:58 »


Long time coming on this article- and for that I apologize. What seemed like a straightforward request meant first learning more about superheavy vehicle rules, trailer rules, etc., things that I rarely have bothered learning since they don't show up in games I'm part of regularly. Combine that with some unfortunate real-life occurrances, and... you knwo what, that all sounds like excuses, and I'd rather avoid that. The bottom line is that I borked this up pretty bad, and I need to just own that. So I'm sorry for the delay on this, and for what I'm assuming will end up being a low-water mark for VotW as I try to pretend I have some clue what I'm talking about here.

With that in mind... the Destrier.

Now, first and foremost, this is a unit that left me confused. After all, the Federated Suns has long prided itself on its cavalry-style combat tactics, hitting targets fast and using mobility to their advantage. While that works great on the attack, it can suffer a little in defending a target against a heavy assault- which is why you have units like the Ajax and Devastator, of course. But, a little artillery support is never a bad thing, and so having a big, beefy artillery hauler can always-

Oh. Right. The Paladin is literally on the preceding page in the TRO.

So why build the Destrier AND the Paladin? Well, that's a question above my head, since there's a lot of similarities. I do point out that one of the Dark Age novels featured Julian Davion marveling at the Republic's Paladin system and wishing for the FedSuns to use it, so I think it might be a unit that was intended for Republic forces- which would then explain the Destrier as the result of those lessons, perhaps. But, that's not what the TRO says, so we have two very similar units doing the same job in the same army. (I don't have the page reference handy on that, by the way, but I'll see if I can find it another time)

Despite the superheavy status on this monstrosity, we'll start with the usual- by looking under the hood (so to speak) and seeing what we have. The answer is a 400XL fusion plant similar to those in some large Battlemechs like the Berserker and the newer models of the Atlas- at least in theory. Since it's working to propel this thing, it is enough to give it a stately 2/3 movement curve. Don't plan on using Davion cavalry tactics today, kids- outrunning the infantry is going to be a challenge. The obvious answer seems to be moving it from point to point via dropship, as with the Jade Falcons and their equally ponderous Huitzilopochtli artillery carrier, but the Destrier doesn't fit in a standard vehicle bay- so that option doesn't work all that well, since you have to use cargo space instead. This is a unit best driven into a position during the lead-up to battle and left there- it's not advancing with you if your lines advance, and it's not leaving if the enemy overruns you.

That engine is encased in what we can all agree is some of the most ridiculous armor a non-naval unit can boast. Thirty-seven tons of hardened armor (sweet mother of Blake!) coat this thing to the point that I'm not even warming up the VotW autocannon test- I'll run out of ammo before this thing runs out of 'screw you' plating. That's a whopping sixty points up front, another forty-one on the turret, the sides... right, it's a super-heavy vehicle, so it has four sides. The front sides get another forty-five points, while thirty-five points adorn the rear sides. The rear of the vehicle gets an impressive thirty-five as well. Remember that each of those points is counted basically as two points for all intents, so killing one of these is NOT easy. Immobilizing it is your best bet- a couple of good solid motive hits and it's a pillbox in practice as well as theory, and so it's much easier to deal with.

So. At two hundred bloody tons, one expects to find a pretty solid payload of weapons, right? Get comfy. The obvious place to start is with the main weaponry. Two mighty Long Tom cannons sit in the turret. What's more fun than shelling someone from a couple dozen maps away? Doing it TWICE. The guns are fitted with a handy twenty rounds each, and while that might seem a little short for long deployments it's worth remembering that this vehicle isn't going much of anywhere- so building a field base around it makes some sense, including ammo resupply facilities. Ever play the old Command & Conquer games? Think of this as less 'mobile artillery' and more as the mobile field bases from that game- it doesn't unfold into a base, but it forms a good foundation to build one around.

MAJOR EDIT: In keeping with the slapdash mess of the article from start to finish, I managed to copy and paste the WRONG VERSION of this. The guns are indeed not artillery, but the snub-nosed bastards intended for making battle armor and close-formation troops miserable. These guns therefore lack the ability to make artillery attacks, and... if I'm honest, are the reason I had so much trouble with this article. If it's this slow, lacks artillery, etc... it makes for a less useful defensive platform, and is still too slow for even a Steiner-style assault force. Very odd. Anyway, apologies for the continued malf-ups with this mess of an article, and I promise next week will resemble something less disastrous.

The rest of the defensive weaponry is a little less awe-inspiring, but won't leave you too upset either. A pair of ER medium lasers sit between the main cannons, using the heat sinks that the engine came with, and providing the ability to sting a snooping scout vehicle or Mech at least. These shouldn't be relied on, however, and really if they're your best weapon against such units you have miserably failed to protect your Destrier. Bad FedRat. The vehicle also boasts four anti-missile systems, always good news for a vehicle vulnerable to SRM hits- these are mounted in side sponsons, the rear, and another in the turret. These are fed by a somewhat light 48 rounds, but again resupply shouldn't be an issue for it. And in case infantry are a problem, a gaggle of light machine guns coat the vehicle as well- paired LMGs are found in each side sponson, as well as in the rear. This should be plenty enough to keep you safe from infantry, but again the Destrier's main defense should be other units, and not its own weapons. Wrapping things up are a C3 slave module, a handy Guardian ECM system, and a full ton of extra communications gear.

Good lord, what a beast. Glad that's over with, we can get to- what, there's a trailer? Come on now, we're rapidly entering overkill territory here, Davion! Fine, fine, let's go over it.

The stats for this aren't found in the TRO entry, but CAN be found in the record sheet at the back of the Davion mini-TRO. Called the 'Ballista', we get more of the same. The same coating of hardened armor applies here- thirty points on each location, with the turret getting thirty-two. The equipment is terrifying- another C3 slave, another Guardian, and more comm gear (four tons this time) are backed by... more AMS mounts, more LMGs, more ER mediums, is this sounding familiar at all? The Long Toms of the original, however, are replaced with twin Arrow IV launchers, equipped with a total of forty rounds- pick what kinds you like, but since you already have area-effect nastiness with the Long Toms I'd advise homing rounds primarily, and FASCAM as well if you have them available- after all, few things tell someone to keep away like dropping mines around your semi-mobile monster, right? (Of note is that the trailer is... well, a trailer, and has no movement of its own, but is marked as having a fusion power plant to provide it with the heat sinks for the lasers. I'm not aware of what the rules are on that, I admit, but waiting even longer to post this article wasn't happening.)

It's not over. Both the Destrier and Ballista have four-ton infantry compartments, handily providing you a way to bring a squad of battle armor along to help the lasers and LMGs keep baddies away. I recommend using lesser types like the Cavalier, since having top of the line gear held in the back means it's not at the front lines like it should be, but to each their own.

So. Using one. What is the enemy on your world to attack? A dam? A factory, perhaps? Park your Destrier nearby. Instant fortress. Now the enemy has to approach through a hail of artillery fire (tube and missile), and spend a year and a half pummeling it to get it to shut up and leave them alone. But leaving it there alone is a recipe for disaster, natch, so leave it some good defenses- heavy tanks like the Alacorn are a handy way to tell an enemy to go away, and the old Sagittaire is handy if anything still gets in close. This is the king of your army- protect it well.

Attacking one... is just going to suck, ok? That's a lot of arty it's putting down on your head- and that's assuming it's all alone. It's probably parked right where you need to go, too, so it's not like you can ignore it. So... flak rounds are painful, but airstrikes are probably your best bet, or at least fast-moving units like Spiders and Harassers. Using slower units means they'll be stripped bare of armor by the time they arrive to do their job, no matter how tough they are. Battle armor dropped from the air might be handy, but with what artillery do to battle armor I sure wouldn't approach any other way- they'll never make it.

All in all, it's an impressive enough unit, but I'm still not sure why it and the Paladin are both in production in the FedSuns- one or the other I could see, but not both. As it stands, this is a menacing unit every bit worthy of serving in the FedSuns military, but its expense, slow speed, and difficulty in moving between locations make it something I'm not a particularly big fan of.

You know the drill. Thoughts, complaints, etc... apologies again on the article, and I'll try to make up for it next week by covering something I DO know well.
« Last Edit: 08 June 2014, 17:45:51 by JadeHellbringer »
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sillybrit

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #1 on: 08 June 2014, 12:51:01 »
One key difference between the Paladin's Long Toms and the Destrier's Long Toms, is that the former are artillery and the latter are the cut down direct-fire versions. So the Destrier wouldn't be able to shoot targets multiple mapsheets away with its Long Toms, for that you need the Paladin, with the Paladin Destrier reliant upon its Ballista trailer for artillery firepower, assuming it's towing one.

Coming on the heels of the Mamono article, the Destrier is the assault vehicle the Mamono wishes it could be. You just point it at a strongpoint that you want to take and (many, many hours later) the Destrier waddles over to take possession over the corpses of the previous occupants. Assuming that they didn't just walk away, after having paused for a spot of light lunch before their casual stroll to safety.

EDIT: Wrote Paladin when I meant to write Destrier.
« Last Edit: 08 June 2014, 15:46:36 by sillybrit »

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #2 on: 08 June 2014, 13:20:19 »
Looks to me like the Destrier may exist mainly to tow the Ballista into position and then sit there playing bodyguard while the Arrow IV bombardment commences. It's less well equipped to "besiege" an enemy position all by itself, but few would-be attackers looking to take those missile launchers out will be happy about facing a couple of LTCs while trying to chew through the hardened armor without being flattened in turn.

Of course, if that is in fact its primary role, then the one thing the Destrier is missing that I would have equipped it with is TAG (possibly replacing that extra ton of comm gear) -- but that can in a pinch be left to further bodyguard units, including the right BA.

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #3 on: 08 June 2014, 15:33:36 »
Of course, if that is in fact its primary role, then the one thing the Destrier is missing that I would have equipped it with is TAG (possibly replacing that extra ton of comm gear) -- but that can in a pinch be left to further bodyguard units, including the right BA.

Which, just in case, would let it spot it's own artillery on opponents. It's a bad idea yes, but it is a tactic.
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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #4 on: 08 June 2014, 16:07:58 »
Guess the Feds needed a party wagon, no arguments here ^-^

 Along with Antlion, the Feddies seem to be warming up to indirect fire along with the AC love. 
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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #5 on: 08 June 2014, 16:08:43 »
These super heavy vehicles are one way to create a bubble of doom.  8)
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Dragon Cat

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #6 on: 08 June 2014, 16:20:20 »
Other scary thought an artillery company built around these and Paladins...
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SCC

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #7 on: 08 June 2014, 16:21:22 »
Hellbie, Super-Heavy Vehicle Bays have been with us for some time, this thing doesn't need to be loaded into cargo bays to be moved around.

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #8 on: 08 June 2014, 16:57:29 »
The Destrier vexes me - not because there is anything wrong with the vehicle but because a destrier is a kind of heavy warhorse, and there is nothing about the Destrier siege vehicle that speaks to me of cavalry.

Also, it stole the the name I gave to one of my favourite custom mech designs...   >:(
« Last Edit: 08 June 2014, 18:28:05 by Getz »

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #9 on: 08 June 2014, 17:09:25 »
Hellbie, Super-Heavy Vehicle Bays have been with us for some time, this thing doesn't need to be loaded into cargo bays to be moved around.

While theoretically you are correct, in practice there are no dropships with SHV bays to carry a Destrier in existence.

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #10 on: 08 June 2014, 17:38:04 »
A Destrier on the attack has this effect on defending forces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CNhD7OtgBI8#t=476

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #11 on: 08 June 2014, 17:41:02 »
While theoretically you are correct, in practice there are no dropships with SHV bays to carry a Destrier in existence.

You beat me to it. I guess I should have added that in the article, but yeah, the option does technically EXIST for super-heavy bays, but we have yet to see anything to my knowledge that have them. So... my point stands.

My bet is that the old Triumph would be the best bet for a mod, since it's already a vehicle carrier- since there's reports of Triumph class ships modified to carry things like watercraft, I can't see why this wouldn't be possible. But... nothing official. So until then, load your Destrier in the Mule and enjoy your slow-boat trip.
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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #12 on: 08 June 2014, 17:47:40 »
Also, I was confused by earlier comments in the article about the main guns, and had to re-read what I'd wrote. The original version of this article referred to artillery as the main guns, before I'd realized my mistake and re-wrote that section on my laptop... then copy and pasted this disaster from my desktop this morning when I posted this. So, naturally, I had the wrong version. I've added the edited portion to the article, and I apologize again for the continuing series of mistakes when it comes to this article.
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Welshman

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #13 on: 08 June 2014, 20:26:23 »
Helbie,

Thanks for a great article. Don't sweat the small stuff errors, happens to all of us.

The Destrier began life as a throw away life in a Field Report. Jymset encouraged me to turn it into something real for a product that ended up going on hold. When 3145 came along, he coopted the completed design and I had to come up with fluff for it.

As the original Field Manual fluff indicates this machine was designed to take fixed positions. It would be protected as it advanced and it's sole job was to destroy structures.

Being Dark Age agnostic until we got to it I was unaware of the Paladin, so when I designed this (again for a product that hasn't seen the light of day) I was trying to improve on my first super-heavy, the Teppo. The Teppo was designed to never see the battlefield. The Desty was designed to be the battlefield.

One thing the Desty really doesn't have to worry about is Battle Armor or Infantry attacks. Yeah, I slapped the LMGs on, I needed to fill tonnage. The LT Cannons can take out hole squads of BA with its area attack.

The Ballista was designed to be left behind. A couple klicks from the main battle the Desty would drop the Ballista and let it provide cover fire as it moved into position.

I'd love to hear if anyone has used this in battle. Writers always want to know what their designs actually end up doing.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #14 on: 08 June 2014, 20:48:23 »
Normally I like to give a vehicle several good Megamek tests before writing a VotW article so I can really get a feel for the units use. The SM1, the Hanse, long ago articles about things like the Demolisher, all got at least a few test runs. It was one of the difficulties here, for me- I wasn't able to do that, which made for pretty much just guessing off stats (and obviously THAT went well!)

Since you're one of the guys responsible for this thing, Welshman, can you elaborate on the trailer issue I alluded to? Does it have a power source to provide power for the lasers, even though as a trailer it doesn't actually require a power source for movement? I never could find anything about that.

The building-buster concept is a good one, assuming it survives to get to the destruction site- I can't help but think of the Terra campaign at the end of the Jihad and imagine Davion engineers afterwards thinking "OK, so Castle Brians. Those suck. Let's come up with a new way of dealing with those sonsabitches."
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smcwatt

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #15 on: 08 June 2014, 21:16:51 »
Is this the vehicle for people who wish they were playing OGRE instead?

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #16 on: 08 June 2014, 22:02:35 »
I like aspects of Destrier's abilities.   Its siege engine that can keep on going and draw attention of alternate faster forces coming in to finish enemy while their distracted.   

Without knowning any behind the scenes information on things, I would think Destrier creation would stem from Yvonne Steiner-Davion having John Davion change way AFFS's aims to defend the realm.   After the Jihad, they became more defensive force, with lightning brigade like forces in the form of Light Combat Teams.  Aside from siege engine, Destrier is as been mention earlier in the thread a semi-mobile Small fortress or base.   

In truth, i hadn't though of the Ballista trailer being detached from the main vehicle would be something to do with it. Keep them together was sometime i had summed would be done to better protect the Destrier's long-range firepower.  Closing in with those nasty Saw-off Artillery Cannons can wreck any infantry and combat vehicle's day.   I think only thing it does need is a decent escort force and spotter unit to help coordinate  the trailer's artillery missiles.

Personally, i like the Steiner own superheavy combat vehicle, the Gulltoppr, its better than the Destrier.  The flexiblity of switchout weapon figuration when facing new threats on a changing battlefield is better. 

Campaign wise, Teppō, is good superheavy combat vehicle too. However, i think it excels better supporting its regiments with its trailer services not mentioning its Sniper Artillery and two Arrow IV launchers.  It may not have the hardened armor, but it good mobile support unit.  Unforunately, there no record sheets for the it or its trailers in RS:3085 The Cutting Edge.

I think only the Free Worlds League and Capellans lack any monster vehicles to boltser their ranks.  (I'm not counting, Şoarece Superheavy MBT, since it was gone the way of dinosaurs before the Succession Wars were over.)
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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #17 on: 08 June 2014, 22:20:33 »
Since you're one of the guys responsible for this thing, Welshman, can you elaborate on the trailer issue I alluded to? Does it have a power source to provide power for the lasers, even though as a trailer it doesn't actually require a power source for movement? I never could find anything about that.

It's got a 10 rated Fusion engine. That won't show on the record sheet.

Quote
I can't help but think of the Terra campaign at the end of the Jihad and imagine Davion engineers afterwards thinking "OK, so Castle Brians. Those suck. Let's come up with a new way of dealing with those sonsabitches."
Without knowning any behind the scenes information on things, I would think Destrier creation would stem from Yvonne Steiner-Davion having John Davion change way AFFS's aims to defend the realm.   After the Jihad, they became more defensive force, with lightning brigade like forces in the form of Light Combat Teams.  Aside from siege engine, Destrier is as been mention earlier in the thread a semi-mobile Small fortress or base.   

The Desty was first mentioned in FM 3078 as something the NAIS Cadre was field testing. At that time it was a throw away line, I didn't think about stating the design. Then I had to put my money where my mouth was when it came time to design it.

Quote
Personally, i like the Steiner own superheavy combat vehicle, the Gulltoppr, its better than the Destrier.  The flexiblity of switchout weapon figuration when facing new threats on a changing battlefield is better. 

You have to remember that in real time the Teppo and Destrier were the first two Super Heavies ever designed. They were the first steps into this arena. The rest of the designs have come after and learned from them.
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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #18 on: 08 June 2014, 22:24:24 »
Since you're one of the guys responsible for this thing, Welshman, can you elaborate on the trailer issue I alluded to? Does it have a power source to provide power for the lasers, even though as a trailer it doesn't actually require a power source for movement? I never could find anything about that.

The trailer's power source is only required for it's weapons, yes. In this case, the 10-point fusion is used simply for access to it's array of 10 free heat sinks.
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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #19 on: 08 June 2014, 22:27:55 »
Well finally, a use for a class-10 fusion. I always figured the only reason those existed was so we could stat out the vehicles they use to mow the lawn at the Imperial Garden on Luthien.  ;D
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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #20 on: 08 June 2014, 23:23:20 »
The Destrier vexes me - not because there is anything wrong with the vehicle but because a destrier is a kind of heavy warhorse, and there is nothing about the Destrier siege vehicle that speaks to me of cavalry.

Also, it stole the the name I gave to one of my favourite custom mech designs...   >:(

the Destrier horse wasn't used for cavalry in the sense of "light and fast" that we think of today.. it was the mount of armored knights. it wasn't fast (in fact, arab pony's in the crusades could easily out run it even if the destrier had an unarmored rider).. its main two attributes were strength (to carry a large knight with a hundred+ pounds of armor and weaponry) and endurance (to sustain a cantering charge across fairly large battlefields, or to carry their rider at slower paces over rather long distances between battles.

the cavalry units of the fedsuns evoke a tradition closer to that of the late 1600's to the mid 1800's cavalry.. lightly armored (or completely unarmored) and armed, but very mobile. used for raids, scouting, securing flanks, or pursueing a routed foe to prevent rallying.

the Destrier of history is for cavalry of a much more Steiner flair.. heavy, heavy armored, and slow. but once moving, it can barely be stopped by the enemy, short of attrition at range before they hit your lines. (as seen at agincourt)
« Last Edit: 08 June 2014, 23:26:52 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #21 on: 09 June 2014, 02:08:56 »
Pretty sure attrition tactics against Destriers begins and ends with 'Orbital Strikes.'

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #22 on: 09 June 2014, 02:44:29 »
It's got a 10 rated Fusion engine. That won't show on the record sheet.
Actually it will, or rather should, the Ballista should still be vulnerable to engine hit crits, which make it immoble, kill the energy weapons and lock the turret, if you're fighting one of these things that's differently something you want to aim for.

Rating 10 fusion reactors in trailers are EVIL

As for killing one of these things, the classic ways to deal with a vehicle don't work. It's pretty much immobile already, so breaking out the LB-X won't do much unless you manage to get a 12 on the effect roll. Inferno's are an even worse idea, the armor gives a -2 to crit rolls, coupled with the Inferno's innate -2 that's a total of -4, meaning you need a 10 or more to get an effect, all whilst loitering inside SRM range of this monster.

My suggestion of using Tear Gas SRM's in the Gürteltier thread applies here as well. While it still requires being inside SRM range, they aren't effected by the armor, so you still have an almost 50% chance of doing something, and there's the ability to capture this monster intact.

That said, this thing has some flaws. AMS and turrets aren't the best choice, the AMS is restricted to the turrets firing arc, which can be problematic if you're in range of two units in different arcs, one has missile but the other doesn't, but the non-missile one if the bigger threat and you want to deal with it first. Also it lacks TAG for some reason

A. Lurker

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #23 on: 09 June 2014, 03:03:37 »
On reflection, one reason this thing doesn't have TAG might just be that it's designed to be part of a C3 network, so whichever unit carries the master should already have that capability. And as I already mentioned, carrying TAG-equipped battle armor in those bays is an option, too.

Still, on something with this much weight to spare that's already meant to work closely together with Arrow IVs, it does feel like just a bit of a missed opportunity.

Alexander Knight

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #24 on: 09 June 2014, 04:04:45 »
If a Destrier can TAG you, you have made a grievous tactical error and your next of kin will be ashamed.  Remember, if he can TAG you, he can smack you with those twin LTCs.

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #25 on: 09 June 2014, 05:12:23 »
“Artillery Cannons may only use standard Artillery Cannon munitions.”

And I'm pretty sure they can attack hexes (Abit they don't get the -4)

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #26 on: 09 June 2014, 06:40:25 »
“Artillery Cannons may only use standard Artillery Cannon munitions.”

And I'm pretty sure they can attack hexes (Abit they don't get the -4)
Holy Blood of Blake, i forgot they could do that.  Personally, i always have problems hitting things with tag,  only semi-LRMs seem to be feasable use for TAG in typical pickup game.   Having pair of LTC using homing ammo via tag, that Fennec CM going get work out among other units using tag. ;) 
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A. Lurker

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #27 on: 09 June 2014, 07:11:13 »
Holy Blood of Blake, i forgot they could do that.  Personally, i always have problems hitting things with tag,  only semi-LRMs seem to be feasable use for TAG in typical pickup game.   Having pair of LTC using homing ammo via tag, that Fennec CM going get work out among other units using tag. ;)

Except the very errata you quoted from SCC points out that they can't actually use homing ammo. Just their own standard shells -- although since those can be aimed at hexes to catch anything that just so happens to be there at the time in the blast they tend to be pretty decent at ignoring target movement anyway. (Secondary target modifiers may get involved if you also want to use the Destrier's other weapons, though, depending on whether you use TacOps vehicle crews or not.)

Oh, something else I forgot to comment on...

AMS and turrets aren't the best choice, the AMS is restricted to the turrets firing arc, which can be problematic if you're in range of two units in different arcs, one has missile but the other doesn't, but the non-missile one if the bigger threat and you want to deal with it first.

Good thing both the Destrier and the Ballista have AMSs in sponson turrets as well, then, which between both sides gives them effective 360 degree coverage. (Really, I don't use sponsons much, but that's one of the more effective ways to get some mileage out of them.) Now I'll grant that the remaining AMSs in the "main" turret and the rear might be better off added to the sponsons, too (I don't think it'd throw off any weight calculations, even)...still, it's a start.

Khymerion

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #28 on: 09 June 2014, 07:27:37 »
This thing is a blast to drive honestly.   Well, actually, two of them in concert are a blast.   It is literally a no-go zone that moves.   It is a proto-Bolo/OGRE and it drives like one.

It is a line breaker vehicle that brings it's own long ranged anti-aircraft defense if you pack a ton or two of Anti-Air Arrow in the ammo bays.   A pair working in concert keeps everything short of a warship at bay and that is so much fun.   The relative long range of the Long Tom cannons means that the big heavy short ranged guns of most heavy mechs are not going to get to have their fun and hanging back outside that 80 pt bubble of death means having to stay in range of the Arrow launchers.   Four Arrows being fired at a hex is just as disgusting as the the cannons.   There is just no safe place to park and plink at this thing... no AC-2 swarms or HAGs.

And I kept the trailers attached.   There was no reason to really leave them behind.   Going slower than slow is not exactly a bad thing.

When using these in pairs, you do not fear light mechs and hovers.  You just don't.   Hex targetting turns them to scrap before they can bring SRMs to bear.   So unless they are literally pulling the ancient OGRE verse hover tank scenario out as a playbook, you barely enjoy your slagging of the hover annoyances and keep driving.  Never at flank, always at cruise.   Might as well turn on the cruise control while driving these.

This is a beautiful weapon that is about the best you can hope for short of a mobile structure.

Also, pair two of these with the Paladin and make people cry because even super heavy battlemechs are starting to look a bit long in the tooth.   It was described by one of the players I ran them against looking at the three monsters trundling across the battlefield with smaller tanks and mechs running escort as what it must have felt like for the rebels watching the AT-ATs marching across the fields of Hoth...  pure dread.

That and no one expects the Ballista/Destrier to be C3 capable.    I had a C3 company command vehicle parked a bit farther back and when someone tried to race all their fast SRM units against one in a game, trying to exploit it's slow speed, and literally the defense company suddenly was looking at range 2 and 3 shots against the raiders...  they didn't last long.   It surprised the hell out that attacker when suddenly all the long ranged guns I had arrayed around it were getting ultra-short ranged shots in and they were blasted into flinders.   It was glorious.

These things will throw any established traditional tactic or strategy a player has out the window.   The only real good counter is air strikes and even then they are still putting up a counter that is far better than just LB-X rounds thanks to those Ballista trailers.   Add in additional fire from their inevitable C3 escort company and just snicker as your opponent curses his terrible luck or goes for mass WWII esque strikes where he is throwing away good chunks of his aircraft in the hopes of getting a few good hits in.

Gut a dropship and figure out how to bring a lance of these things with you anywhere and everywhere.  They are just that much fun to drive.    Then again, I tend to run heavy infantry armies and having a super heavy that keeps pace with the advance of my motorized and mechanized infantry is wonderful....  because the only thing a Destrier needs is infantry based field guns keeping up to add more to the volume of fire they belch out.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Destrier Siege Vehicle
« Reply #29 on: 09 June 2014, 08:44:53 »

Good thing both the Destrier and the Ballista have AMSs in sponson turrets as well, then, which between both sides gives them effective 360 degree coverage. (Really, I don't use sponsons much, but that's one of the more effective ways to get some mileage out of them.) Now I'll grant that the remaining AMSs in the "main" turret and the rear might be better off added to the sponsons, too (I don't think it'd throw off any weight calculations, even)...still, it's a start.

I admit I'd never really given through to the AMS in sponsons before this, and I should have covered it in the article a little more, but that's exactly right- between the two sponsons, the vehicle has an AMS watching every angle- add in the rear and turret mounts, and it's not easy to hit a Destrier with missiles at all. Same for the Ballista- it must be frustrating to let go with a full missile salvo from a Trebuchet, for example, and watch them just get swallowed up by the behemoth's defenses before they ever get a chance to test that dreadnought-armor. The AMS spam is definitely one of the vehicles' nicer points, particularly in conjunction with that armor, and I do like that the rear got coverage the way it did especially- with this being as slow as it is, it sure isn't going to have an easy time keeping something like a Harasser from sneaking behind it to deliver SRMs, after all.

One more thing. One of my local gamers sent me a laugh on Facebook to share- remember those infantry bays? What to put in there? We don't need suits overly set up to kill infantry, because LMG spam... really, best bet is something that helps the Destrier deal with fast-moving annoyance units that otherwise it either has to use the ER mediums on (and hope to hit) or fire the Long Toms and hope for the best. Screw that. In a defensive role, he suggested Kanazuchis- after all, you're defending, so you're not likely going much of anywhere fast, right? But... when he asked if the Republic was likely to have access to Coronas, I just couldn't stop laughing. That's sick and wrong (and yes, VERY unlikely), but a four-man squad of Coronas guarding a Destrier, and another in the trailer? That'll get rid of those Spiders and such REAL fast. ;)

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