Author Topic: VotW: Odin Scout Tank  (Read 9932 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« on: 13 July 2014, 09:23:59 »


There are times in every gamer's experiences- Battletech or otherwise- that stick with him/her forever. Moments that you find yourself telling the stories of and laughing about many years after the fact. (Those familiar with the legends surrounding my dice know that there's more than a few stories about me, for example). Today we're going to cover a vehicle that, for me, is the center of one of my favorite Battletech moments of all time- and yes, the story will be told as part of it. Let's meet a unit that few of you have likely ever used, the Odin.

Odins are pretty much what you expect from a light Clan vehicle- since vehicles are dishonorable amongst the Clans, not a great deal of expense or advanced technology is put into them. The result is that while the Odin is perfectly useable in the roles it's designed for, it's not really a great combat unit outside of a narrow range of jobs. It's worth noting that poor performance by Odins during fighting on Tokasha resulted in the Jade Falcons forswearing combat vehicles altogether (artillery exempted) for nearly two decades, only really coming back to their touman as a result of the rebuilding needed following the Jihad and the fighting against the Society.

Cutting the Odin open, we find that the twenty-ton vehicle has a cramped two-man crew compartment. Odin crews are said to serve together as a team for their entire careers, which likely means they go into combat once together and die holding hands Thelma & Louise style. The little tank's wheels- a fun reverse-tricycle arrangement reminiscent of the modern-day Can-Am Spyder, allows an Odin to carry those hapless crewmen at a clip of 8/12, perfectly respectable for a scout vehicle- and of course, on pavement the wheels gain a little more speed. Since Odins often serve in roles like urban scouting and police work, this is pretty adequate overall. The engine is a fusion 140 unit, a concession made by the Clans due to its energy weapon battery.

Cutting the tank open was remarkably easy though. In true Clan fashion, our old VotW rule "speed, armor, firepower, pick two" resulted in a lot of engine and a heap of guns, with a very thin shell of armor over it all. This is a vehicle not really designed to get in a fight- no wonder the Clans hate it. One and a half tons of overworked armor coat the tank in a nearly M&M-thin shell- interestingly, this is ferro-fibrous, so perhaps the Clans aren't as cruel to Odin crews as they might be. The front, sides, and turret all have six points- enough to stop a Clan small laser once, and not much more. The rear has a nearly laughable three points that an Elemental's laser can strip in one hit. Obviously we're leaving the VotW AC-20 on the testbed this week, there's no point in firing a test shot into this poor thing.

Now, like I said, a good sized engine and hardly any armor to speak of. So... guns? Oh yes. Guns. Why does a scout tank have a respectable array of heavy weaponry? Because it's the Clans, and the idea of a scout tank that focuses on SCOUTING is as alien to them as marriage. The vehicle does make a passing attempt at being a scout with a body-mounted active probe, but much more obvious is the big turret packing twin medium pulse lasers. That was unexpected on a scout tank! These weapons do pretty major damage to similar-sized combat units like VTOLs and other scout tanks, and even an unwary Battlemech could find themselves taking a beating. And since Clan vehicle crews don't exactly get the training a Mechwarrior does (to be kind), their accuracy means the Odin will actually score hits with these guns that it might not with other main batteries. A well-used Odin can cause mayhem to an enemy- more on that later. Backing these two weapons is a turret-mounted Streak SRM-2, never a weapon I'm happy to see, and its ton of ammo. An ER small laser sits forward for the driver to use, although the artwork erroneously put it in the turret as well under the missiles. The result is that an Odin can actually cause a PSR with a full salvo, no small feat for a 20-ton tank- and since they come two to a point, even a medium Mech can find itself in ruins after an attack by a point of Odins.

A variant came out in the Jihad that actually turns the Odin from a gun truck thinly disguised as a scout to... well, an actual scout/spotter. Amazing what focusing on the job at hand can do. Dropping the engine for a fuel cell keeps the same speed, but means the energy battery has to go away. Well, all of the weapons did, replaced with stereo turret-mounted AP Gauss rifles in case trouble looms. The rest of that weight we saved though? TAG, an ECM system, and a NARC launcher. Now THAT sounds more like a scout tank! This excellent variant should be used over the original at any point where the tank needs to serve as an actual scout, but obviously won't do well in actual combat.

Using an Odin depends on what you want to do. As noted, the original is more of a gun truck than a scout tank, probe aside- so use it as such. It might not be a great scout itself, but as a scout HUNTER it is superb. Find and destroy enemy light units with the range and accuracy of your lasers- and don't be afraid to lose your Odins, because... well, with that armor, you're going to lose your Odins. But they can cause a LOT of damage before that happens. The variant, obviously, should be kept out of combat whenever possible, where it shines for breaking up C3 networks, calling in artillery, and smacking targets with NARC pods to make the distant Vultures and such happy with added accuracy for their missiles. (Is that a Bane 3 over there? ;) )

Killing an Odin... seriously? The move modifiers get a little high sometimes, but... a Clan medium laser goes internal anywhere it hits. Just throw some weaponry at the Odin- even if the numbers suck, one good hit and it's gone. So don't let it sting you with that turret any longer than you have to- slap it hard and end this. Long-range units find that the Odin can't hurt them at all, so Donar VTOLs are a great choice for hunting and killing Odins.

I promised you a story, and so I'll close with it. Several years ago, I ran a game at a now-closed game store in Virginia in which a Lyran Alliance force got wind of a Jade Falcon dropship having crash-landed in a large urban area. They were ordered to secure the site and destroy any Falcon units that had survived the landing before more hot-dropped in from orbit. Among the Falcon units that defended the site were a pair of Odins, with pretty questionable-skilled crews. The player running both Odins? None other than our assistant line developer, Ben 'GhostBear' Rome.

It was lunacy. The Lyran players gave as good as they got early in the game, at one point scoring a great kill in which a Drillson hovertank charged a Locust IIC and destroyed BOTH legs, leaving the rest of the Mech to crash to the ground helplessly. But the Falcons mobility and skill began to wear on Steiner's numbers and armor, and Ben's Odins were in the thick of it- he'd decided, as I said above in the article, that since they weren't going to survive anyway, why not crash them into the enemy lines and try to cause some damage? The Steiner players were so busy dealing with the Falcon Mechs that they ignored the Odins for much of the day, only throwing the occasional pot shot their way. At one point, one Odin took a medium laser to the front, nearly stripping it- Ben's response was to turn it around and continue chasing the Lyrans BACKWARDS, where it had more armor now.

One Odin was lost, the other (I think the backwards-driver) did survive, but between them they caused a surprising amount of damage, wounding a Zeus and a Caesar and driving off a Fafnir (!) during the game. Watching a 100-ton Mech with twin HGRs trying to hide behind buildings and be driven away from the crash site by a pair of Odins is a sight that I will never forget- and it was a lesson in both how wily and dangerous Ben can be in a game, and in how dangerous the Odin can really be if used well.

Anyway, discussions below. Next week... well, I don't know yet, but I'll think of something.  ;D
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Colt Ward

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #1 on: 13 July 2014, 10:22:38 »
Always liked the load of the Odin, but yeah not as a scout.  Sounds as if the Lyrans were running with the Clan attitude of disdain for vehicles . . . and needed a bit more battlefield analysis.  Someone should have been popping those things to get a more stable battleline.

Post-Jihad/Reaving do we get the Clans actually producing any decent scout vehicles in the IS?  or is the Odin variant the only one . . . and who ends up making it?
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #2 on: 13 July 2014, 10:54:05 »
Well...

We don't really know about what's going on back in the Homeworlds- they may still produce Odins there, in one form or another, or something entirely different. So there's that, anyway. I never have seen anything suggesting anyone picked up production though in the Inner Sphere, so I'm assuming it's a dead design for the Inner Sphere Clans.

As for a replacement... well, the short answer seems to be 'kind of'. The Falcons build the Nacon, which seems to serve a similar role of 'scout/scout hunter', I think that's as close as I can really think of. The Kite serves a scout kind of role, I suppose, and it has a pretty similar layout to the Jihad variant of the Odin, but switches to a hover chassis of course.
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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #3 on: 13 July 2014, 11:12:29 »
With armor this light I think hover is just a flat out better choice.  You aren't physically able to survive enough hits to be slowed enough to be an easier target, and you gain a pretty good speed boost in return.
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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #4 on: 13 July 2014, 11:36:45 »
With armor this light I think hover is just a flat out better choice.  You aren't physically able to survive enough hits to be slowed enough to be an easier target, and you gain a pretty good speed boost in return.

As I pointed out in my own article on these little muggers, the armor won't stop large lasers.  Anyone's large lasers.  It's just enough to stop a Clan ERML or MPL from killing you outright unless you expose your rear, though, so what armor is there is actually laid out pretty intelligently.  The MPLs also make a certain amount of sense when you consider what poor shots Clan vehicle crews tend to be.

Personally, I've always favored tossing the secondary weapons for more armor and TAG or an active probe.  The spotters are possibly more dangerous than the original.  The Rasalhague-crewed second line formations don't have any qualms about deploying artillery or Narc ammo.

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #5 on: 13 July 2014, 11:44:08 »
Love the story!

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #6 on: 13 July 2014, 11:50:43 »
As I pointed out in my own article on these little muggers, the armor won't stop large lasers.  Anyone's large lasers.  It's just enough to stop a Clan ERML or MPL from killing you outright unless you expose your rear, though, so what armor is there is actually laid out pretty intelligently.  The MPLs also make a certain amount of sense when you consider what poor shots Clan vehicle crews tend to be.

Exactly.  I'm saying that because of this very attribute that a vehicle like the Odin is significantly more effective as a hover motive type vehicle.  You just plain don't last long enough for the most meaningful disadvantage to hover units (susceptibility to motive hits) to impact it.
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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #7 on: 13 July 2014, 12:36:21 »
Exactly.  I'm saying that because of this very attribute that a vehicle like the Odin is significantly more effective as a hover motive type vehicle.  You just plain don't last long enough for the most meaningful disadvantage to hover units (susceptibility to motive hits) to impact it.

If you really want a 20-ton Clan Hover, just go with the Asshur ::)

JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #8 on: 13 July 2014, 12:46:46 »
If you really want a 20-ton Clan Hover, just go with the Asshur ::)

Ridiculous. Why on earth would you compare these two vehicles? One is a 20-ton fast moving unit with a single electronic item, two lasers and an SRM in the turret, and...

...

...Hmmm.  ;D
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Jellico

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #9 on: 13 July 2014, 18:09:35 »
Because one can sit silently with its motors barely ticking over.
And the other can sit doing an impersonation of the world's largest vacuum cleaner.
Scout remember?

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #10 on: 13 July 2014, 20:22:39 »
just once, i'd like to see a clan vee that makes sense. the Odin looks like some engineer accidentally brought in their kid's pillow fort blueprint, and talked the khan into thinking it was a real tank frame.
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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #11 on: 13 July 2014, 20:24:49 »
Because one can sit silently with its motors barely ticking over.
And the other can sit doing an impersonation of the world's largest vacuum cleaner.
Scout remember?

I really do not think that qualifies as a valid reason given the guns on this thing.  I mean seriously, just take one look at that arsenal and it is obvious that it wants to go hurt something, not sneak around like a proper scout.


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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #12 on: 13 July 2014, 20:41:53 »
just once, i'd like to see a clan vee that makes sense. the Odin looks like some engineer accidentally brought in their kid's pillow fort blueprint, and talked the khan into thinking it was a real tank frame.

I love the Zorya specs . . . hate the art, which is why I mentally picture it like some of the IS tanks or like the Joust.  I just have a mental block until confronted with the canon art.
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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #13 on: 13 July 2014, 20:54:24 »
just once, i'd like to see a clan vee that makes sense. the Odin looks like some engineer accidentally brought in their kid's pillow fort blueprint, and talked the khan into thinking it was a real tank frame.

The Oro is pretty close, even with the thin armor. Really, if it did like the Manticore and used a small SRM rack in place of the laser to boost the armor, it would be perfect.

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #14 on: 13 July 2014, 21:15:27 »
just once, i'd like to see a clan vee that makes sense. the Odin looks like some engineer accidentally brought in their kid's pillow fort blueprint, and talked the khan into thinking it was a real tank frame.

The Odin is one of the few TRO:3060 Clan vees that I actually like the look of.  The reverse-trike design is. . .an interesting choice, sure, but I think it works.  That being said, I never have played one.  As a Blood Spirit, if I ever needed a fast laser platform, I'd go for a star of Shamashes.
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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #15 on: 13 July 2014, 21:16:59 »
Lunacy indeed!  You have to be genius or damn lucky to pull off victory with these guys.  Joel was bad ass in that game for sure!  Its embarrassing to be Lyran in that game.  Fafnir running away from Odin Scout Tank, diving backwards.... :))

Thanks for sharing JadeHellbringer!  Those are stories that really liven up a article!
« Last Edit: 14 July 2014, 19:25:02 by Wrangler »
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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #16 on: 13 July 2014, 22:27:32 »
The Oro is pretty close, even with the thin armor. Really, if it did like the Manticore and used a small SRM rack in place of the laser to boost the armor, it would be perfect.

I'm a huge fan of the Oro. While the Clan Vees of TRO3060 leave us with a very clear impression of just how much the clans want their vehicle crews to die, there are a few gems mixed in. I love the idea of a three-wheeler like the Odin; it reminds me of the Dymaxion Car, but the pic is a bit of a letdown. Honestly, the anecdote in this article finally makes this design memorable.

The CMPLs are excellent, especially in context. The Active Probe makes sense. The armor and the driver's ERSL fits the clan philosophy. What leaves me scratching my head is the SSRM2. Huh? Why streak? You've got FIFTY freaking reloads, which means you'll in all likelihood die with 49 still unfired. Why not go w/ an SRM4, or fire Infernos? When you're fighting in a tinfoil speedo anyway, the napalm may leave you extra tasty crispy, but you'll be just as dead.

That does raise a reason for the skimpy armor beyond simple malice. When TRO3060 was being written, a hit by an Inferno on any vehicle -- no matter how well-protected -- gave you about a 60% chance of being insta-killed. Heavy armor was a waste on a vehicle in those days.



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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #17 on: 13 July 2014, 23:27:59 »
For a long time Infernos were Streak 2 ammo.

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #18 on: 13 July 2014, 23:29:54 »
For a long time Infernos were Streak 2 ammo.

Also a hell of a lot less wasteful than standard rounds since they won't fire if they haven't locked on and, when they do, every missile hits (assuming no AMS on the target)

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #19 on: 13 July 2014, 23:49:03 »
Great little story and article and yet another reason if Ben Rome had been in charge of the invasion REVIVAL would have gone differently ^-^
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https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #20 on: 14 July 2014, 01:28:45 »
Great little story and article and yet another reason if Ben Rome had been in charge of the invasion REVIVAL would have gone differently ^-^

Damn sure wouldn't see nonsensical things like Wolf Clusters that are 90% Ice Ferrets somehow taking down entire RCTs or multiple Jade Falcon Clusters getting bent over by what amounts to a bunch of cops with limited military grade equipment if he were.

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #21 on: 14 July 2014, 04:09:57 »
What about hunting Elementals? Sure, under today's rules, the Elementals would probably crit its movement out, but perhaps not as much under the old rules. The weapons let them stay at range where only the SRMs can retaliate, and most of the sides can survive 3 missile strikes before boom. As long as you don't get lucky on a clustering, you might be able to survive a salvo that hits (and you have a turret for the extra location to spread the hits out more). The MPLs also will let you have a better chance of hitting the BA (theoretically), and two hits on a suit with the MPLs will take out an Elemental.

It might not be the best idea, but it seems like barring bad luck it could be an effective one...or atleast not going to kill the Odin any faster than sending it up against anything else.

As for effective Clan vehicles, I still think the original Enyo is probably the best of the early ones.

edit
If not among the new ones too
/edit
« Last Edit: 14 July 2014, 17:56:28 by Maelwys »

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #22 on: 14 July 2014, 06:40:22 »
Ignoring the Clan tanks get less armour "rule", an interesting comparison is the Skulker.

With the ICE engine a medium laser is about as heavy a weapon that it can carry. Its 4.5 tons of armour sound impressive until one realises that there was virtually nothing else it could carry. Neither engines or guns.

When all you have is a hammer everything looks like nails and Battletech was often guilty of this. (Heavily armed police PALs I am looking at you.) Nobody produced good non-hover light tanks until the Clans in TRO3060. Certainly no one produced a scout until that TRO.

The Skulker is just as gunpower focused as the Odin. The rule set just didn't allow it to express itself fully.

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #23 on: 14 July 2014, 10:19:31 »
As others have said, this thing would make an excellent scout-hunter and BA-harasser. Might also make a good escort, since if you drive it alongside a pair of Mars or somesuch, people are gonna be shooting at the big stuff, while the Odin will be free to zip behind and carve the crew's initials(singular?) into your back armor.

Ignoring the Clan tanks get less armour "rule", an interesting comparison is the Skulker.

A very good point. Like the Skulker, this is less a light tank, and more an armored car. Not the kind of scout that ranges a few hundred meters ahead of your Battle Star and reveals ambushes, but the kind that roams around the hundred-odd sq. kilometers ahead of your Cluster, gets a visual on the enemy battalion, and radios in so you can vector your 'real' combat units in on it. Not very Clanlike, but it can also act as a light strike unit, going after supply dumps and other targets of opportunity while it's out there.

I never really thought about the Odin in this role before, and oddly enough I now really like it. Something about all armored cars and the tactical/strategic challenges thy represent really strikes my fancy.
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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #24 on: 14 July 2014, 11:33:25 »
The CMPLs are excellent, especially in context. The Active Probe makes sense. The armor and the driver's ERSL fits the clan philosophy. What leaves me scratching my head is the SSRM2. Huh? Why streak? You've got FIFTY freaking reloads, which means you'll in all likelihood die with 49 still unfired. Why not go w/ an SRM4, or fire Infernos? When you're fighting in a tinfoil speedo anyway, the napalm may leave you extra tasty crispy, but you'll be just as dead.

Also a hell of a lot less wasteful than standard rounds since they won't fire if they haven't locked on and, when they do, every missile hits (assuming no AMS on the target)

While the waste of the rounds inside when the Odin goes up is debatable, note that Clan SSRMs have 33% more range than standard SRMs, matching the MPL range brackets.  This simplifies targeting for the gunner, and lets the Odin keep at a bit more range while trying to fight say an Inner Sphere objective raid.  Used against Elementals and it can stay outside the SRM pack and APGR range while picking off suits.

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #25 on: 14 July 2014, 12:13:25 »
For a long time Infernos were Streak 2 ammo.

Oooh good point. I forgot that completely.

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #26 on: 14 July 2014, 15:12:51 »
As others have said, this thing would make an excellent scout-hunter and BA-harasser. Might also make a good escort, since if you drive it alongside a pair of Mars or somesuch, people are gonna be shooting at the big stuff, while the Odin will be free to zip behind and carve the crew's initials(singular?) into your back armor.

A very good point. Like the Skulker, this is less a light tank, and more an armored car. Not the kind of scout that ranges a few hundred meters ahead of your Battle Star and reveals ambushes, but the kind that roams around the hundred-odd sq. kilometers ahead of your Cluster, gets a visual on the enemy battalion, and radios in so you can vector your 'real' combat units in on it. Not very Clanlike, but it can also act as a light strike unit, going after supply dumps and other targets of opportunity while it's out there.

I never really thought about the Odin in this role before, and oddly enough I now really like it. Something about all armored cars and the tactical/strategic challenges thy represent really strikes my fancy.
Looked at from that perspective, it mounts enough armor to survive an encounter with a point of elementals, has enough speed to escape said elementals, and the firepower toreally hurt a target in the exchange. Since the clans are likely to assign elementals as the guards for supply dumps, or use them as flankers/skirmishers, those are the enemies the Odin is most likely to encounter on a regular basis.

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #27 on: 14 July 2014, 16:29:05 »
I'd also use Odins to try and intercept enemy APCs(especially those carrying battle armor). Use your speed to get to them and disable/destroy/distract/dwhatever before they can drop their troops off in their desired areas. An infantry-heavy force, or one whose strategy relied on having some well-placed heavy squads in place can find their battle plans seriously messed up by having those troops dropped too early, or not at all. And if the Odins are destroyed in the process...who cares? They're practically disposable anyway. O0
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Nahuris

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #28 on: 14 July 2014, 16:39:32 »
As others have said, this thing would make an excellent scout-hunter and BA-harasser. Might also make a good escort, since if you drive it alongside a pair of Mars or somesuch, people are gonna be shooting at the big stuff, while the Odin will be free to zip behind and carve the crew's initials(singular?) into your back armor.

A very good point. Like the Skulker, this is less a light tank, and more an armored car. Not the kind of scout that ranges a few hundred meters ahead of your Battle Star and reveals ambushes, but the kind that roams around the hundred-odd sq. kilometers ahead of your Cluster, gets a visual on the enemy battalion, and radios in so you can vector your 'real' combat units in on it. Not very Clanlike, but it can also act as a light strike unit, going after supply dumps and other targets of opportunity while it's out there.

I never really thought about the Odin in this role before, and oddly enough I now really like it. Something about all armored cars and the tactical/strategic challenges thy represent really strikes my fancy.

And here, my first thought was armored car...... it reminded me of some of the early British and German ones...... basically a gun on wheels, that you sent out to harass the enemy and break things..... like telegraph poles and railway track switches.  The Odin screams for independent sneaking around, and picking off the ammo reload truck guarded by infantry, that the opposition hoped was hidden well enough, or finding a remote air strip, and racing down the runway popping damage at fighters, on the ground........ basically slowing down your opponent's ability to concentrate assets, or to start making him spend on repairs, before he really gets to use anything.......

2 or 3 points of these would also be a NASTY surprise, if they managed to sneak up on an artillery emplacement.......

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Re: VotW: Odin Scout Tank
« Reply #29 on: 14 July 2014, 19:08:46 »
2 or 3 points of these would also be a NASTY surprise, if they managed to sneak up on an artillery emplacement.......

Honestly, 2 or 3 points of these are going to be nasty no matter what you have.  They may be fragile, but they hit hard and you can only shoot at so many per turn so the numbers will make it very hard to get rid of them before they make a mess of your units.


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