Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth  (Read 18163 times)

Kotetsu

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’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« on: 25 July 2014, 17:53:28 »
’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth

Fire Moth. The first light-class OmniMech. As fragile as a moth dancing around a flame. And the fastest thing on two legs when it first showed up.

The Inner Sphere name Dasher fits better than most.

The Fire Moth was originally developed by the Cloud Cobras as primarily an infantry support platform, and a strike unit second. The first Fire Moths had a strange infantry pod slung under the arms, which led to both a reinforced torso and the strange upside-down arms. However, problems with the pod idea (primarily being called a “Mandrill crazy idea”) caused them to be discarded, and the inability to reduce the fragility of the MASC system caused the Cobras to “lose” the design to the Ghost Bears for a five-year trade agreement.

The Bears kept the arms because of balance problems when using standard arms. This had an unexpected benefit, as battle armor suffered less accidental brush offs that way. And the upraised arms allowed for easier dismounts by the battle armor as well. Finally going into full production in 2874, the Fire Moth is a relatively uncommon design. The Ghost Bears have the highest numbers of this design, with the Horses a distant second (mostly due to salvage from their long feud). The Exile Wolves are also known to have enough to create stars of them. The rest of the Clans disdain the design as being too fragile for constant use (though use in trials is accepted).

The chassis is fine-tuned with every possible method (for its time) to squeeze speed out of it. Along with the MASC, the design is built around an endo-steel skeleton and mounts a 200-rated Firebox extralight engine, giving the design a top speed of 216 km/h. Two tons of ferro-fibrous armor (amusingly named IceSheet) give these machines 55% of maximum protection, laid out in a 5, 5/2, 4/2, 3, 4 pattern (head, center front/rear, side front/rear, arms, legs respectively). Just as a note, this means that while the design mounts ferro-fibrous armor, it only mounts half the weight of the Inner Sphere’s Locust design. Ten double-strength heat sinks are fixed.

The Prime configuration mounts two medium lasers in the left arm, a 4-pack SRM in the right torso, and a 6-pack SRM in the right arm. One ton of ammunition is allocated for each SRM launcher.

Alpha is more of a support configuration, as it mounts only a 6-pack Streak SRM with one ton of ammunition in the right torso for offensive weaponry. Alongside there is an anti-missile system, an active probe, and Target-Acquisition Gear, which can call in artillery fire from Nagas and the like.

Bravo mounts an ECM suite and two machine guns with half a ton of ammunition in the tight arm, a medium pulse laser in both the left arm and right torso, and an anti-personnel pod in the right leg.

Charlie puts an anti-missile system in the right torso and a 5-rack LRM in each arm, each fed by a ton of ammunition.

Delta was the original dueling configuration, mounting two medium lasers in each arm, an additional medium in the right torso, alongside a flamer, and a targeting computer for the lasers, placed in the right torso. This configuration is one of the hotter-running ones.

Echo carries a single 6-pack ATM launcher fed by three tons of ammunition. All placed in the right arm. This configuration is likely to die from combat long before the ammunition runs out.

Foxtrot mounts an active probe in the left torso, three medium lasers in the left arm, and three anti-personnel Gauss Rifles in the right arm. One ton of ammunition feeds the Rifles.

Golf is the most recent configuration and also the most advanced. Two improved heavy mediums are in each arm, tied to a targeting computer placed in the right torso. A coolant pod allows for one running alpha strike with no heat woes. Finally a supercharger allows for a top-end speed of 270 km/h.

Hotel (aka psycho circus) is the lone configuration to install an additional heat sink, though it barely helps with the heat loads. Nine heavy small lasers (five right arm, four left arm) tied to a targeting computer make this the knife-fighter of choice for those with a couple screws loose (which is not to say ineffective, I have seen one take down a Turkina).

Kilo is the last standard configuration. A heavy medium is mounted in each arm, alongside a machine gun array with three light machine guns each. A half ton of ammunition for both arrays is placed in the left torso. A Battle-Armor Pod is placed in each leg.

While most of those assigned to Fire Moths are non-Bloodnamed warriors on the slide towards solahma, meaning they are a bit aggressive, there is at least one Bloodnamed Warrior who has taken to the Fire Moth. And she rode the design all the way to becoming Khan of the Ghost Bears. Aletha Kabrinski revels in “skillful kills,” so much so, that some wonder if she might have a bit of Goliath Scorpion blood in her veins. In that vein, her personal configuration, which we get to see in Jihad Hot Spots: Dieron, mounts an ECM suite in the left torso, three small lasers in the left arm, and a large laser for sniping in the right arm.

Using one starts with the old adage, “Speed is life.” Perhaps never truer than in this case with the thin armor. Keep your movement numbers as high as possible, though make sure not to tax the MASC too much. Your first job might be as a battle armor taxi, as you can get to the front quicker than any other OmniMech that I know of. Initiative determines your move. If you win and you are close enough, you can get behind almost any foe. If you lose, run and hide until you win. (I will note that my GM still hasn’t adopted the one side moves one, other side moves one, continue rule. We still play under the old rule [or at least how he was trained] where the winner of initiative moves their entire side after the loser moves his.) Anyway, with most of the configurations lacking long-range weaponry (C, E, and Aletha’s are the exceptions), your best shot is to dash in, hit hard, and withdraw. That is, unless you are a little loose in the head, in which case bring the H, and dance the dance of death. In that fight with the Turkina noted above, the guy piloting the H simply ran in circles around the assault and kept ending up in his rear.

Fighting one is a bit frustrating. With his speed, he is incredibly hard to hit, and that was before they put out a configuration that mounts a supercharger on top of the MASC. That said, if you do hit him, he tends to shatter. Especially since my gunners seem to have a hankering for chicken (they like hitting limbs). Leg hits make Fire Moths fall down and go boom. On that note, if he does fall down, pound him as he gets up. Targeting computers, pulse weapons, and precision ammunition if you have it help. Though I like giving out locations to target, the speed of the Fire Moth make that a touch iffy. If you are going to try that, I’d say the legs, with arms secondary if there is ammo or as my friends say, “explody things” in them. While CASE is standard, the explosions still rattle the pilot a bit. And in the case of the E, a cascade is possible (crit an ammo bin, and it chains to the other two).

The Fire Moth is a rare taste in BattleMechs. Those that like it, tend to be very good with it. The rest hate it. Even in universe, it may be on its way out. The Homeworlds began phasing out the design after the Wars of Reaving. Considering the two plants were in Ghost Bear space they were moved to the Inner Sphere. One appears to have been a casualty of the Jihad, and the other is a mobile factory that may be wearing off by the time the Dark Ages roll around. Thus it is possible the design is not in production any more. However, enough of them should still exist that they can continue to make an impact in the times to come. We shall have to see.

This design first appeared in TRO 3050. Additional variants are in Jihad Turning Points: Dieron and in the New Tech, New Upgrades PDF of the 3145 Record Sheets.

Fire Moth

Fallen_Raven

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #1 on: 25 July 2014, 18:20:41 »
The Fire Moth is one of those 'mechs that demands a certain kind of crazy to use. Unfortunately for me, it works very well for those crazies. There's just something about being able to cross a map sheet in one turn that makes this tiny pest into the bane of every carefully planned maneuver I do!
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Ghostbear_Gurdel

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #2 on: 25 July 2014, 18:37:34 »
Fire Moth; variants D and H are my most favorite variants. I had one game where an H variant was one Heavy Small Laser away from OSKing an Archangel(or at least really messing it up). Just the threat of this speedy little back stabber has made opponents cluster up in fear...
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #3 on: 25 July 2014, 18:50:13 »
On paper, it looks weak.
But the pure psychological impact of being potentially anywhere in the next combat turn...   8)
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sillybrit

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #4 on: 25 July 2014, 20:41:58 »
I love this Mech. Never mind the pure lulz factor of it streaking around the mapsheet while you hum the Benny Hill tune, for me it's a simply superb Elemental taxi (alongside the Dragonfly, but that's another MotW). I like to imagine that the sound of Elementals shrieking like kids on a roller coaster underscores the Benny Hill tune.

Added entertainment could also be had thanks to those players who look at the negligible armor and relatively low payload and dismissed it as worthless. Most learned after the first couple of battles where their MadCat or Warhawk was humiliated by the simple tactic of Win Initiative Then Backstab, Lose Initiative Then Run And Hide. Even if you lost, it was all good, because you had fun racing around the map like a loon.

Alexander Knight

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #5 on: 25 July 2014, 23:13:38 »
My most memorable moment comes from fighting one while in my WLF-1.  The Clanner was zipping around and I got desperate, cranking my large laser around and firing on 11s (at short range!!!).  Sadly for the Clanner, I hit his leg.  The next turn saw me walk over and smack him before he could stand up.

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #6 on: 25 July 2014, 23:35:13 »
I'm surprised there's never been a canon improved heavy (or even regular heavy) large laser configuration for the Fire Moth.  The heavy large laser on a 10/15+ platform is a proven combination in the second-line Solitaire.  It would be great to see it enhanced (i-heavy and TC) for the front-line Fire Moth.

Even when enhanced with a targeting computer, the i-heavy large still leaves 2.5 tons leftover for electronics, a supercharger, AI weapons, modular armor on the legs, secondary lasers, etc.  And the 18 heat points keeps the design heat neutral even while running.

16 points of damage with 4+ to-hit roll (3+ with a targeting computer) from a relatively safe 5 hexes turns the Fire Moth into dangerous headcapper/back-opener against most mechs.  And that big hole-puncher works well with the crit-seeking of SRMs and other typical elemental weapons in the BA transport role.

Hopefully someday...
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master arminas

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #7 on: 26 July 2014, 00:04:49 »
The thing that gets me about the Fire Moth is that bloody weak armor!  The design could have been increased to 30-tons and kept the same speed and pod-space . . . while at the same time having more than 1.5 times the IS and 100% maximum ferro-fibrous armor plating (105 points vs. the original's 38)!

And you would get more critical spaces for equipment since the 300XL engine can house all ten standard DHS (heck, it could house TWELVE if necessary . . . which it isn't), whereas the original's 200XL has to allocate two DHS outside of the engine.

The only down-side would have been cost . . . but, oh, these are the Clans!  Who use XL engines for 2nd-line and garrison 'Mechs!  Cost doesn't really seem to matter to them.

At 30-tons, the Fire Moth would be absolutely terrifying on the battlefield.  At 20 tons, it is a casualty waiting to happen.

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sillybrit

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #8 on: 26 July 2014, 00:37:44 »
The thing that gets me about the Fire Moth is that bloody weak armor! 

Speed is life. It's all about not getting hit in the first place.

Although your point about the 30t custom alternative is totally valid, as sometimes you get unlucky, or you want to see what happens when you run at that building full chat. Maybe somebody at FASA was a Locust fan and wanted to see how far the design concept could be pushed using Clantech, thus setting the 20t mass.

Nahuris

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #9 on: 26 July 2014, 01:35:44 »
One of my favorite designs....although I am VERY partial to the Prime. I tend to use it like a Commando on steroids, and it's awesome.

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Jellico

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #10 on: 26 July 2014, 02:07:02 »
I'm surprised there's never been a canon improved heavy (or even regular heavy) large laser configuration for the Fire Moth.  The heavy large laser on a 10/15+ platform is a proven combination in the second-line Solitaire.  It would be great to see it enhanced (i-heavy and TC) for the front-line Fire Moth.

Even when enhanced with a targeting computer, the i-heavy large still leaves 2.5 tons leftover for electronics, a supercharger, AI weapons, modular armor on the legs, secondary lasers, etc.  And the 18 heat points keeps the design heat neutral even while running.

16 points of damage with 4+ to-hit roll (3+ with a targeting computer) from a relatively safe 5 hexes turns the Fire Moth into dangerous headcapper/back-opener against most mechs.  And that big hole-puncher works well with the crit-seeking of SRMs and other typical elemental weapons in the BA transport role.

Hopefully someday...

Actually the big hole puncher is a pretty poor choice as seen in 'Mechs like the Solitaire and Hunchback.

Simple example, for one HLL you get four HML. Not only do the four lasers do more total damage they have a greater chance of doing any damage at all. Four dice rolls versus one. The range advantage of the HLL is good, but on a very fast platform it is mostly meaningless.

16 points of damage means you will punch through most back armour and get one crit. But it will also be wasted on most arms and legs that you are just as likely to hit. 10 points is just as likely to go through back armour, but if the extra shots hit the same location you get more crits, or if you get more chances to strip more back armour.

Finally Battle Armor and dancing Fire Moths don't operate in the same battle space. Drop your BA in the middle of a dance and you end up with sitting duck dead BA.

HLLs work, but you need a larger chassis than a Fire Moth.

Considering the two plants were in Ghost Bear space they were moved to the Inner Sphere. One appears to have been a casualty of the Jihad, and the other is a mobile factory that may be wearing off by the time the Dark Ages roll around. Thus it is possible the design is not in production any more.

Both factories were destroyed in the Jihad.


Frabby

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #11 on: 26 July 2014, 02:29:01 »
I like to imagine that the sound of Elementals shrieking like kids on a roller coaster underscores the Benny Hill tune.
;D  O0
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Diablo48

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #12 on: 26 July 2014, 03:30:58 »
I love this Mech. Never mind the pure lulz factor of it streaking around the mapsheet while you hum the Benny Hill tune, for me it's a simply superb Elemental taxi (alongside the Dragonfly, but that's another MotW). I like to imagine that the sound of Elementals shrieking like kids on a roller coaster underscores the Benny Hill tune.

Added entertainment could also be had thanks to those players who look at the negligible armor and relatively low payload and dismissed it as worthless. Most learned after the first couple of battles where their MadCat or Warhawk was humiliated by the simple tactic of Win Initiative Then Backstab, Lose Initiative Then Run And Hide. Even if you lost, it was all good, because you had fun racing around the map like a loon.

Funny, the Viper and Fire Moth are my two favorite fast omnis. O0

Actually the big hole puncher is a pretty poor choice as seen in 'Mechs like the Solitaire and Hunchback.

Simple example, for one HLL you get four HML. Not only do the four lasers do more total damage they have a greater chance of doing any damage at all. Four dice rolls versus one. The range advantage of the HLL is good, but on a very fast platform it is mostly meaningless.

16 points of damage means you will punch through most back armour and get one crit. But it will also be wasted on most arms and legs that you are just as likely to hit. 10 points is just as likely to go through back armour, but if the extra shots hit the same location you get more crits, or if you get more chances to strip more back armour.

No, the HLL is a great choice because of its fantastic penetrating power which makes a fast mover like the Fire Moth a deadly threat to top of the line assault 'Mechs.  Most assaults will have at least 10 points of armor on every rear torso location so you need to stack two HML hits to get a crit, but very few have any locations with more than 15 armor so the HLL is virtually guaranteed to penetrate and get a crit chance.  This in turn frequently gives you a decent chance of doing sever damage to a nearly fresh 'Mech through raw crits which gets even better if they have explosive ammo or weapons on hand to take a side torso and possibly an XLE off with a single shot.  Furthermore, the HLL is a headcapper so every hit is a potential instant kill, and the 15 hex range means you can use speed and range to take potshots to keep the enemy worried even when you loose initiative.  Really, the Fire Moth is an ideal platform for the HLL because it can take full advantage of its tremendous penetrating power while avoiding the unfavorable comparisons to the ERPPC that are inevitable on a larger design with enough mass to carry the bigger gun.


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marauder648

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #13 on: 26 July 2014, 04:43:59 »
The Dasher to my mind always moved around making the Daffy Duck Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! thing he did whilst it zooms around at somewhere approaching a decent fraction of the speed of light because lets be honest, MASC on this thing was not an accellerator. It was a hyperspace button.
« Last Edit: 26 July 2014, 04:53:30 by marauder648 »
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #14 on: 26 July 2014, 07:18:46 »
Actually the big hole puncher is a pretty poor choice as seen in 'Mechs like the Solitaire and Hunchback.

With 4/6 movement, the Hunchback isn't in the same category.  It's the big hole-puncher in combination with the ability to put that hole-puncher practically wherever/whenever that makes the Solitaire so effective.

Quote
Simple example, for one HLL you get four HML.

No, you don't.  You also have to add four freezers to get four heavy medium lasers firing at the same rate as one heavy large laser.  That's not an option on the Fire Moth -- too little pod tonnage.

Quote
Simple example, for one HLL you get four HML. Not only do the four lasers do more total damage they have a greater chance of doing any damage at all. Four dice rolls versus one.

Not necessarily.  Even if you could add four freezers to the Fire Moth, you've lost the targeting computer, which, depending on the situation, may mean the heavy large laser connects while the heavy medium lasers don't.

Quote
The range advantage of the HLL is good, but on a very fast platform it is mostly meaningless.

It depends on what weapons your opponent is packing, but on a platform with as little armor as the Fire Moth, it can make a substantial difference to be able to stay at five hexes versus three and still get short-range modifiers.  Your opponent will likely have higher to-hit rolls for certain mid-range weapons or certain short-ranged weapons will be out-of-range entirely.

Quote
But it will also be wasted on most arms and legs that you are just as likely to hit.

Nope, 16 points turns the Fire Moth into a light mech hunter/counter-recon unit, like the Wolfhound (or Panther in theory).  It can lop off limbs, forcing enemy light mechs to the ground quickly.

Quote
10 points is just as likely to go through back armour

Not on many assaults, which have 10 points of rear side torso armor and more on the center torso.  And not on the juiciest part of many heavies and assaults, which have 10 points on the rear center torso.

Quote
Finally Battle Armor and dancing Fire Moths don't operate in the same battle space. Drop your BA in the middle of a dance and you end up with sitting duck dead BA.

Five hexes isn't the "middle of a dance".  Standard elemental suits can be on an opponent holding the line in two turns, enough time to empty their SRMs.

Quote
HLLs work, but you need a larger chassis than a Fire Moth.

It depends on how much larger.  When the platform gets too slow, heavy large lasers are hard to position, and you're better off with ER PPCs.

And we've said nothing about headcapping or the sheer psychological/herding effect of BFGs.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that a 10/15 platform with a few heavy medium lasers isn't dangerous.  It is.  But it's not substantially more dangerous than the same 10/15 platform with one heavy large laser.  In terms of raw armor penetration, rear armor penetration on heavies/assaults, crippling light mechs, headcapping, heat efficiency, leaving room for enhancers like the TC, and herding, the heavy large laser has lots of advantages that even few heavy medium lasers don't.

Getting back to the thread, even if the heavy large laser was substantially less effective, it would have been nice to have one configuration with it for the sake of variety.  The Fire Moth has lots of duplicative Jenner-ish configurations (Prime, D, F, G, etc.), but no Wolfhound/Panther-ish configuration.

My 2 C-bills... FWIW.

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nova_dew

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #15 on: 26 July 2014, 09:43:33 »
Fantastic article, The only thing I would add is that the Fire Moth was designed with Zell in mind, so beware combined arms, artillery and mortars, not only are five point clusters good at shaving off your armour they do well at shaving off your ablative armour in the form of the BA you may once have been carrying.
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iamfanboy

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #16 on: 26 July 2014, 23:42:39 »
Speaking from an Alpha Strike point of view, these guys are a serious threat - in particular, the H variant, with 5 (!!) points of damage on a platform that moves 26" inches AND carries Battle Armor, all in a package that costs very little overall. Yes, they usually only get one shot, but when that one shot is at an artillery unit or objective (or backstabbing a much heavier unit) that's all they need. I actually got a second Fire Moth just to REALLY put some fear into my opponent.

I'm still questing for the perfect BA unit to put on them - Gnome (LRM) are reasonably durable and have a good sting for their size, but I may go back to Gnome (Standard) for that 3-point punch. I do like Clan Medium BA (Rabid) for that HT1 Special and 8"j Movement; makes redeploying them to be a continuous threat much easier.

Colt Ward

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #17 on: 27 July 2014, 01:35:04 »
Love the H, its been very useful and the one time I really remember was I think Tel Hazen backing his heavy- Night Gyr or Summoner?- up to some woods.  The FM H zipped down the woodline to dive into that heavy woods hex he would be trying to occupy next turn . . . or not, since all the HSL punched out his back armor to burn into things inside.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #18 on: 27 July 2014, 02:05:42 »
I've always wanted a "Death by Papercuts", or as I call it the " Mini-Nova ". 10 ER Small, Targeting Computer and either ECM or Active Probe. Six hex range, running alpha strike is 2 heat so you can do it twice before worrying and it's 50(!) potential damage.
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dwinter

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #19 on: 27 July 2014, 18:09:29 »
My favourite mech of all time, especially the H although I have been playing a bit with the AP Gauss variant (but always return to the H).

When the Clans first appeared i feel in love with the design and have kept it going ever since.  Yes, it's not optimal; yes, there are better light mechs out there, yes if it gets hit it does but I don't care.  The enjoyment factor is too high for me to ignore.

Probably why I enjoy the Phantom H as well...
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cold1

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #20 on: 27 July 2014, 19:17:59 »
I hate the thing.   I want to lumber my 4/6 assaults around without having to deal with this little bug running up behind me.  Always pack a Warhawk config with LPLs and a tarcomp for stuff like this. 



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Diablo48

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #21 on: 27 July 2014, 19:58:38 »
My favourite mech of all time, especially the H although I have been playing a bit with the AP Gauss variant (but always return to the H).

When the Clans first appeared i feel in love with the design and have kept it going ever since.  Yes, it's not optimal; yes, there are better light mechs out there, yes if it gets hit it does but I don't care.  The enjoyment factor is too high for me to ignore.

Probably why I enjoy the Phantom H as well...

While you are right that it is not optimal, it is also by far the best of the TRO 3050 light omnis so loving it is far from unreasonable.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #22 on: 27 July 2014, 22:22:53 »
So, I'm probably weird in that I was introduced to the universe via the card game, when I was a lad.  Neighbor played it, and wanted someone to play with, although admittedly neither of us ever understood the rules real well.  Mostly he started me off with light Mech Cards, and the Dasher FIRE MOTH was one of them.  I've always had a fondness for it since, with it's goofy arms, lack of armor, and stupidly high speed.  Sure, I'd take one.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #23 on: 27 July 2014, 23:46:46 »
So, I'm probably weird in that I was introduced to the universe via the card game, when I was a lad.  Neighbor played it, and wanted someone to play with, although admittedly neither of us ever understood the rules real well.  Mostly he started me off with light Mech Cards, and the Dasher FIRE MOTH was one of them.  I've always had a fondness for it since, with it's goofy arms, lack of armor, and stupidly high speed.  Sure, I'd take one.
oh man, in the card game the fire moth was great. sure it didn't have much in the way of combat power, but it was fast enough to be nigh unblockable (only other fast mechs could block it, and those tended to be similarly useless in terms of damage dealing), plus it had the ever handy rule that let it enter play the moment you payed off its construction.. other mech cards had to wait till the next turn after being played and built. it let you get a good screening force of mech cards out quick. though i usually ended up using more Phantom's for the role, since i kept getting more of those cards (and i ran clan wolf, so there were not as many fire moth cards for that faction)

mbear

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #24 on: 28 July 2014, 07:51:56 »

No, the HLL is a great choice because of its fantastic penetrating power which makes a fast mover like the Fire Moth a deadly threat to top of the line assault 'Mechs.  Most assaults will have at least 10 points of armor on every rear torso location so you need to stack two HML hits to get a crit, but very few have any locations with more than 15 armor so the HLL is virtually guaranteed to penetrate and get a crit chance.  This in turn frequently gives you a decent chance of doing sever damage to a nearly fresh 'Mech through raw crits which gets even better if they have explosive ammo or weapons on hand to take a side torso and possibly an XLE off with a single shot.  Furthermore, the HLL is a headcapper so every hit is a potential instant kill, and the 15 hex range means you can use speed and range to take potshots to keep the enemy worried even when you loose initiative.  Really, the Fire Moth is an ideal platform for the HLL because it can take full advantage of its tremendous penetrating power while avoiding the unfavorable comparisons to the ERPPC that are inevitable on a larger design with enough mass to carry the bigger gun.
It actually makes me happy that the Clans are slower to use the pack hunter tactics of say the AFFS or LCAF. A duo of Fire Moths, one with a HLL and one with multiple HML, would be a very large pain in the neck for my assault units. Fast hole puncher + fast critseeker = lots of sadness.*


*or happiness, if you're the Clan player.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #25 on: 28 July 2014, 09:31:31 »
Don't forget, if you're playing with quirks there's a new quirk from the 3145 TROs Overhead Arms.  If I remember correctly that lets arm mounted weaponry fire from behind full cover.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #26 on: 28 July 2014, 11:38:07 »
Don't forget, if you're playing with quirks there's a new quirk from the 3145 TROs Overhead Arms.  If I remember correctly that lets arm mounted weaponry fire from behind full cover.

It does :)
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Diablo48

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #27 on: 28 July 2014, 19:13:23 »
It actually makes me happy that the Clans are slower to use the pack hunter tactics of say the AFFS or LCAF. A duo of Fire Moths, one with a HLL and one with multiple HML, would be a very large pain in the neck for my assault units. Fast hole puncher + fast critseeker = lots of sadness.*


*or happiness, if you're the Clan player.

Honestly, if you want to do that, you are better off with a SRM-heavy load than the HMLs for more clusters.  Of course, the HLL is only 4 tons so the Fire Moth would have another 2.5 tons which is enough for a SRM 6 and ammo so you could combine the two onto one platform if you wanted and the heat spike would be negligible.


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iamfanboy

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #28 on: 28 July 2014, 19:52:17 »
Honestly, if you want to do that, you are better off with a SRM-heavy load than the HMLs for more clusters.  Of course, the HLL is only 4 tons so the Fire Moth would have another 2.5 tons which is enough for a SRM 6 and ammo so you could combine the two onto one platform if you wanted and the heat spike would be negligible.
Maybe an SRM-4 and using 1 more ton for a Targeting Computer?

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Fire Moth
« Reply #29 on: 28 July 2014, 20:18:02 »
Believe me it was looked at for the G. We came very close to a modern Prime.

In testing it came down to volume of fire. Between base To-Hits and the cluster table a Fire Moth can't carry enough missiles while still being able to crack rear armour.  You need at least two hole punchers (assuming 7s To-Hit) then you need something like eight missiles to ensure the exposed internals get hit enough times to overcome the crit roll.
If you can't consistently crack the armour, especially the rear armour, the missiles are going to have minimal effect. (See the new Executioner and Karhu variants as examples of 'Mechs with the firepower and missiles to make it viable) In the end we gave up and went for four 10 point hits.

Of course you can run two Fire Moths in a hole punching and missile variants, but then you double the challenge of keeping fragile 'Mechs alive in what is inherently a high risk position.

 

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