Author Topic: VotW: Pack Rat  (Read 9237 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: Pack Rat
« on: 03 August 2014, 17:55:36 »


The weirdest of all moderators, the master of all that inhabits the depths of space, the man known as Zug, has asked that we cover this old scout car, and you know what? I'm glad he did. Because this is one of those units that everyone knows about- I mean, who isn't familiar with the ol' Pack Rat? And yet... how many of you have honestly used Pack Rats? Seriously, don't give me "I have, I don't know what's wrong with the rest of you.", I mean, genuinely, how many people have used them? Not many. Not THIS author, prior to a few test runs over the past few days. So, let's delve in and see an old classic that rarely makes an appearance at gaming tables.

Thing is, as a scout car in 3025-era play, the Pack Rat just doesn't have a lot going for it compared to a bug Mech or something along those lines. So these rarely are seen by players as a good unit to use- but as an in-universe thing, Pack Rats and their various permutations are just the thing for jobs like urban scouting, artillery spotting, riot duty, and all the other things that are vitally important to a military force, but not really something the game does well in that era. So, an important unit that lacks the tools to do its job- uh oh. But, hey, it's not all bad news- in fact, there's some really neat tricks to find on this when you go looking.

We start by sawing open the engine compartment and finding a surprise. Where most scout cars would have an ICE engine, we find the Pack Rat has a fusion motor! The 20 ton craft has a 120-rated engine pushing it to a 7/11 movement curve, and of course being wheeled that means it gains a bonus on pavement- something to remember during 3025-era objective raids on factories and the like. That means it can basically pace a Locust in the urban jungle- no small feat in its day. A fusion engine in this era is a rarity on a vehicle, even on a powerful tank- we see vehicles like the Von Luckner even getting stripped for their engines. And yet the Pack Rat has one- fascinating to see this.

So that's a pretty rare and big investment on a scout. It needs protection. Four tons of armor is pretty hefty protection for a 20 ton unit. With no turret, the Pack Rat has a simple and even sixteen points on each location, plenty enough to withstand all but an AC-20 blast to any location. Even in the modern era, a Gauss slug won't break the armor- a rarity on a scout vehicle. And it's worth noting that the Pack Rat has that on the rear- which means it can safely run away from problems and survive an encounter with something unexpected like a Panther or Manticore and potentially escape. Try that with a Wasp! (WARNING: The author does not actually advise dealing with a Manticore using a Wasp, unless you owe the Mechwarrior money.)

Our usual rule, speed, armor, firepower, pick two. Sometimes you can double down on one, the way the Uller does on guns. It's the rare unit that can pull all three. Welcome to the Pack Rat- we found one! Yeah, it doesn't sound like much, but with good speed and surprisingly tough protection comes an awfully handy SRM-6 in a forward mounting (amusingly mounted on the rear end of the vehicle, but faced forward). That it's fixed forward reduces its utility somewhat- it sure would be nice to be able to throw a few warheads behind you as you flee that Panther- but being a scout car, you shouldn't really be getting in a fight anyway- more on the utility of this later. For now, using standard tactics though, an SRM-6 is a surprisingly hefty weapon for a scout car like this, with its ammo weighing in at a fifth of the vehicle's weight. Well done! We do have one more weapon, to boot- a flamer (the usual model, not the vehicle version- thanks, fusion engine!), mounted to the rear. This is of dubious value, since it's only really useful against infantry, and infantry rarely chase down a 7/11 scout car successfully. Switching the weapon locations would be much handier- as it is, the flamer probably won't fire very often other than to make the car look like it's going faster. (Passenger space is also listed, but one ton of weight is allocated and can be looked at as a fluff item more than anything.)

NOTE: As we learned with the Warrior article, sometimes the older books and the newer ones have minor changes made. The Pack Rat is no exception- the 3039 iteration has only one ton of control equipment rather than the two on the 3025 version, and makes the infantry/passenger compartment have a weight of one ton rather than being a mere mention as in 3025. This really doesn't change the vehicle, since on ton of passenger cargo is kind of 'bleh', but is worth noting.

Handy, right? Not near as bad as you'd think. But, again, in the 3025-era, we lack items like TAG, Beagle, Guardian, the kind of electronics that actually would allow our Pack Rat to do the scout jobs it's designed to do. That very much reduces the Pack Rat's utility, unfortunately- and makes it hard to make this work as a combat unit. Sad.

Variants are out there, as you can imagine. That fusion engine? Like I said, we're pulling those out of Von Luckners- why would Pack Rats get away with it? While the TRO notes that there are many variants like this, the official record sheet version puts in an ICE engine in place of the much-needed fusion engine. That meant removing the flamer (no big loss), and a ton of armor (ok, that one hurt), but keeps the rest of the unit mostly the same. I'd much rather have seen the weight pulled from the flamer and dropping the SRM to a four-pack rather than pulling armor, but honestly this isn't the worst 'downgrade' to an ICE one can imagine. It's useable, particularly for militia and small merc units.

The fusion model has an infantry carrying version, as well- a three ton infantry bay gives you room to carry a platoon of foot troops, with whatever weapons they'd like to haul- maybe not the best little APC out there, but in 3025 we can't afford to be picky about how we get around the battlefield, can we? This involves dropping the missile rack down to a two-pack, but were we using it anyway, really?

Still nothing that gives us a decent scout unit though. I guess we'll have to just give up and- oh. Oh wow. Hey, come back, we found it! XTRO: Phantoms gave us our first new Pack Rat in decades, and ohhhhh mama is this one the scout we've been waiting for. Leave it to the questionable-sanity minds in Loki to brew up something insane and useful. The 'Gepenst' starts with... hell, this is almost a whole new vehicle. That's an XXL engine in there now- so if the old fusion engine was a shock in 3025, this is almost jaw-dropping in the Jihad. What did that ridiculous toy get us? Well, first, we move 9/14 now- and again, wheels on pavement, do the math. That's nice- 7/11 was fine in the old days, but feels a bit tired now, so boosting that speed again was a great move. And this Pack Rat finally gains the ability to play the kind of dirty tricks that it never could before due to lack of equipment in the old days- and not just the basic stuff, but the best toys available. That's a Bloodhound probe! And an Angel suite with it! That's the kind of stuff that can allow the Gespenst to spot even the most well-hidden foe, and disrupt enemy electronics to the point of hair-pulling. (Important against the kind of C3i-equipped foes Loki dealt with at this point!). Finally, two more little tricks are included- a four-ton infantry bay for your favorite flavor of battle armor (this author thinks Rottweilers would look nice lumbering out the back of this thing), and of course what department of dirty tricks is complete without making your nasty scout/interdiction machine able to traverse water with basic amphibious gear? Yes, it's unarmed, expensive, and likely extremely rare even at its height, but... this is the scout car the old Pack Rat always wanted to be, and one you MUST try at your next game against the Word.

I promised you a quick look earlier at how to use the original though, right? Ignore the flamer, that's just useless. But that SRM? Don't even bring regular ammo- or inferno! Smoke rounds mean as you flee that Panther, you can start laying down a cloud of smoke to hide in and avoid more enemy fire. Keep dropping smoke a few hexes in front of your intended path, and keep dodging into and past it, and eventually your speed will win the day. Handy indeed! I still wish it was rear mounted, but it's a much better use of it still than standing and fighting against the enemy- you know better than that anyway, it's a scout car! Leave that to the rest of the company!

So. Now you know all about it. But you never used it. Get out there and test some Pack Rats, and report back, will you? Next week we'll cover another ancient and rarely-used design from a more recent book, requested by Redshirt.
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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #1 on: 03 August 2014, 18:33:01 »
The Flamer is actually pretty useful.  It lets you set fires in your wake that generate smoke to block LOS as you flee.  I would never put the Pack Rat in a position to encounter infantry close enough to use it, but it's a good complement to smoke or inferno rounds when EVERYTHING MUST BURN.
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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #2 on: 03 August 2014, 18:34:32 »
Super Article on the ye olde Pack Rat!   

I do have to say, i like the vehicle and wish they had made newer variant of it for later eras.  The vehicle so darn convenient.

I do claim to have used Rat Pack in a game, but it wasn't standard game.  I was in a MechWarrior 1 RPG game, which a mercenary unit (operating in a bizarrely funny Alternate Universe of the Battletech universe) i was working for had used one these things on Strana Mechty as a get away car during Victor Steiner-Davion's brief stay on planet.  My unit discovered a Dark Caste / Inner Sphere underworld weapon smuggling ring on planet, we trying rescue fellows who were escaping ammo packed weapon warhouse on edge of Clan capital city of Katyusha.  During the escape, one of us fired a Light Anti-Tank round (from the Rat Pack) into said warehouse to delay enemy from pursuing us.   Said LAW round....well blew up the warehouse and flipped the Rat Pack (some damage but not enough kill it) on its side.  We manage flip the vehicle back on its wheels and high tailed it out of there. 

As side note.  Don't fire LAW into ammunition packed warehouse.  Just saying.

« Last Edit: 03 August 2014, 18:41:59 by Wrangler »
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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #3 on: 03 August 2014, 18:36:39 »
Cue the Adam Steiner reaction
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #4 on: 03 August 2014, 18:37:11 »
That's pretty fantastic... good advice anyway, in general. "Inner Sphere Soldier Tips #558: Point the n00b-tube away from all the high explosives!".

Thanks for sharing, that made me laugh!  O0

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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #5 on: 03 August 2014, 18:39:29 »
Oddly enough, I'm in the process of basing a platoon of these for my 3025 era 12th Galedon Regulars combined-arms battalion.

Okay, I don't play a whole lot, but the idea would be that each of the Pack Rats is carrying a squad of forward observers in ghillie suits. Before going into the objective, you can let the squads out to take up overwatch position. If you run into trouble in the danger zone, they can call in supporting artillery to help you get out of Dodge. Alternatively, you send in the Pack Rats to see if the objective is occupied; if not, you can then set up your FO's there while the main force comes up.

This fits in beautifully with the canon way the 12th works - splitting itself up into smaller combined arms battalions & companies to scout for the more prideful, heavier DCMS units slogging away behind them.

I confess I hadn't considered putting smoke rounds on the Pack Rats - but mainly because that's what the platoon of LRM-armed APCs are for. I ended up going with the LRM variant - the fragility of the hover really isn't practically diferent from the tracked version, and the hover's higher speed adds flexibility. And at 10 tons, "mobile smokescreen" is a far more sensible use for them than "skirmishing".  And the idea of being able to pop up multi-hex smokescreens to give the Pack Rats flexibility seemed to synergise well.

This is basically all theoretical, not based on in-game experience. But I'm looking forward to doing a combined-arms battalion vs. battalion Alpha Strike battle sometime, on 3x4 map 3D terrain. I suppose I should start with a company-on-company first ...
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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #6 on: 04 August 2014, 00:11:46 »
As the one who requested this, thanks!

I'm actually among those who've never actually used the Packrat. I want to, and that's why I sought out more information about it. I don't know why, but these kinds of small patrol/recon cars tend to hold my attention a lot lately.

In playground terms, this thing isn't a hide-and-seek kind of scout, more of a tattletale - instead of pointing out the hidden stuff, it goes looking for the big meanies(such as enemy regiments), then runs for safety and tells on 'em. The speed is good here for evading most threats in the medium range and up, while the armor and SRMs allow you to survive(and often outgun) the stuff that can run you down.

Come to think of it, it might not be too bad as a tactical scout either. On an intro-tech battlefield, finding hidden units revolves around either dropping a remote sensor on 'em by blind luck, or getting close enough to their position that even normal sensors spot them. Since the technical term for getting that close is "getting ambushed", you need to be able to survive said ambush. While hardly a die-cast brick, the Packrat is much tougher than many other scouts, making it's odds of surviving the act of springing an ambush long enough to run to safety that much higher.

Of course, deep recon units often run across little side quests we call 'targets of opportunity', and that SRM rack means the Packrat is well-equipped to take advantages of those opportunities when they present themselves. While I heartily agree with the usage of smoke rounds to help evade pursuit, I would definitely advise also carrying some direct-damage missiles as well, be they standard, Inferno, or even Tandem-Charge if you can get ahold of them. In bigger battles, the missile rack can be put to use providing smoke cover to other units, or with normal rounds to help finish off cripples.

Okay, I don't play a whole lot, but the idea would be that each of the Pack Rats is carrying a squad of forward observers in ghillie suits. Before going into the objective, you can let the squads out to take up overwatch position. If you run into trouble in the danger zone, they can call in supporting artillery to help you get out of Dodge. Alternatively, you send in the Pack Rats to see if the objective is occupied; if not, you can then set up your FO's there while the main force comes up.

I'd be tempted to go with sensor engineers. Their ability to drop and monitor remote sensors would allow a Packrat patrol to maintain overwatch over a surprisingly large area. Set up your sensors, then withdraw to a nice spot to do some spotting of your own, with the Packrat placed to either whisk the infantry squad away from trouble, or quickly attack any light targets they see.
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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #7 on: 04 August 2014, 01:02:42 »
This was the plans for the Ninjas, my fictional scout/recon unit

A lance of sensor dropping vtols and a lance of pack rats with infantry hidden in
areas that needed better observation,

The only mod I did was for Packrats and pegasus hovers was to split the sixpacks intothree twopacks
for smoking/infernoing multiple spots at once
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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #8 on: 04 August 2014, 01:08:29 »
the 3025 infantry carrier version might well be the best light APC available for the time.. very high speed, plenty of armor, and still carry useful firepower. not bad for 20 tons.

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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #9 on: 04 August 2014, 06:51:40 »
After thinking about it, When they did the Technical Readout: 3039, i wish they were able to include a variant with Commnication Equipment.  I know the Swift has some too, but having that 3 tons of comm equipment in the Pack Rat during the low-tech era could have helped people in campaigns to be able to get advanage in a fight.
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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #10 on: 04 August 2014, 19:43:42 »
As the one who requested this, thanks!

I'm actually among those who've never actually used the Packrat. I want to, and that's why I sought out more information about it. I don't know why, but these kinds of small patrol/recon cars tend to hold my attention a lot lately.

In playground terms, this thing isn't a hide-and-seek kind of scout, more of a tattletale - instead of pointing out the hidden stuff, it goes looking for the big meanies(such as enemy regiments), then runs for safety and tells on 'em. The speed is good here for evading most threats in the medium range and up, while the armor and SRMs allow you to survive(and often outgun) the stuff that can run you down.

Come to think of it, it might not be too bad as a tactical scout either. On an intro-tech battlefield, finding hidden units revolves around either dropping a remote sensor on 'em by blind luck, or getting close enough to their position that even normal sensors spot them. Since the technical term for getting that close is "getting ambushed", you need to be able to survive said ambush. While hardly a die-cast brick, the Packrat is much tougher than many other scouts, making it's odds of surviving the act of springing an ambush long enough to run to safety that much higher.

Of course, deep recon units often run across little side quests we call 'targets of opportunity', and that SRM rack means the Packrat is well-equipped to take advantages of those opportunities when they present themselves. While I heartily agree with the usage of smoke rounds to help evade pursuit, I would definitely advise also carrying some direct-damage missiles as well, be they standard, Inferno, or even Tandem-Charge if you can get ahold of them. In bigger battles, the missile rack can be put to use providing smoke cover to other units, or with normal rounds to help finish off cripples.

I'd be tempted to go with sensor engineers. Their ability to drop and monitor remote sensors would allow a Packrat patrol to maintain overwatch over a surprisingly large area. Set up your sensors, then withdraw to a nice spot to do some spotting of your own, with the Packrat placed to either whisk the infantry squad away from trouble, or quickly attack any light targets they see.

I have used Packrats with single squads of spotter infantry....
I rarely have a battle that doesn't have some form of recon available, even if it's just a straight up fight.... recon is just too valuable to NOT have it. Although having the remote sensors is VERY nice....
As an aside, how big is a drone operations unit?

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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #11 on: 04 August 2014, 21:34:07 »
apparently a drone unit is not that big
havent looked at the rules in a while but for operators I believe its one
operator per drone, and a half ton of comm equipment per drone

I figure 2 guys per drone for maintenance and rearming

so a high scout can carry and operate 6 drones
has 4.5 tons equipment in the revised 3039

so I guesstimate 1.5 tons is sensors and comm equipment and the a half ton per drone
so crew wise driver/gunner, CO, 6 controllers/techs so while 3 drones are out
3 are returning refueling etc

the ninjas had a converted Maxim as thier controller, (I wanted the vehicle to fit a light vehicle bay) and had a company of modified pegasi also

so the vtols would scatter and drop sensor pods along likely routes, the pegasi did the same in even more directions, the packrats would deploy to a central hidey hole in each direction, and monitor the sensor pods, and feed data back to the dropship/base
if neccesary there were a couple boomerangs on the dropship for more active monitoring/spotting duties
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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #12 on: 04 August 2014, 22:37:32 »
When discussing the use of a fusion plant by the Pack Rat you have to keep in mind it came from TRO:3025, not 3026, about half the vehicles in 3025 have fusion plants, and the write up for the Rommel/Patton says that a new line was built to supply them. Realistically I'd expect that many Pack Rats would have been upgraded with engines from destroyed/salvaged Locusts and Wasps, we know there was no supply issue for those fusion plants, but there was (And still IS) some sort of bottle neck on 'Meck production that most likely effects repairs

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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #13 on: 05 August 2014, 00:25:58 »
 A great article and I have both given and received ill tidings from massed packrats. Yes I said it. MASSED packrats....I love these in 3025 and they stand up well over time as well.
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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #14 on: 05 August 2014, 00:36:18 »
My pet theory for why Pack Rats were allowed to retain their fusion engines is because they're the same size engine you can salvage from the ubiquitous Wasp and Stinger.  No one (and I mean no one) needs more of that particular brand fusion engine than they already have.
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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #15 on: 05 August 2014, 06:42:13 »
I used them a few times as APCs for Marian Elite formations. I usually use 8 wheeled APCs and 2 Packrats to carry the 10 contubernia of infantry and once I carried 10 royal guards contubernia in 10 packrats. The Rats mixed normal and inferno SRMs to chew through my opponents Battlesuits. Worked well.

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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #16 on: 05 August 2014, 06:48:28 »
I've never used one.  But on paper 7/11 with 4 tons of armor and an SRM6 sounds like a really good idea in 3025.  A group of them could keep a mech lance slowed or out of position for like half the vie or less.  Not a bad thing.


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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #17 on: 05 August 2014, 09:24:39 »
I like to use two Packrats and two Pegasus scout tanks as a recon lance for my armour units (reminiscent of WW2 British recce troops). Don't forget the packrat carries three tons of ammo for its SRM, at least it does in my 3025 tro, plenty of space for ammo choices!

As an aside, my TRO only lists one ton of control equipment but still with no tonnage given for the passengers.

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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #18 on: 05 August 2014, 09:44:37 »
Per the most current stats in TRO 3039, the standard Packrat has one ton of control gear, one ton of passenger space, and two tons of SRM ammo.

I think I'm going to group my two with a couple of Skulkers. Should make a nice little recon patrol, unless anyone knows of a vehicle with similar speed and motive type that has a remote sensor dispenser.
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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #19 on: 05 August 2014, 10:11:27 »
Per the most current stats in TRO 3039, the standard Packrat has one ton of control gear, one ton of passenger space, and two tons of SRM ammo.

I don't have TRO 3039, thanks. It makes sense for them to have recovered the passenger space by lowering the ammo, and at least you can still carry two ammo types.

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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #20 on: 05 August 2014, 10:32:57 »
...and at least you can still carry two ammo types.

Mmm...delicious near-Omni flexibility... {>{>
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Moonsword

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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #21 on: 05 August 2014, 11:17:56 »
Per the most current stats in TRO 3039, the standard Packrat has one ton of control gear, one ton of passenger space, and two tons of SRM ammo.

I think I'm going to group my two with a couple of Skulkers. Should make a nice little recon patrol, unless anyone knows of a vehicle with similar speed and motive type that has a remote sensor dispenser.

The only thing I'm aware of with a similar speed in that period is a Pegasus variant.  There's a scout Hetzer of all things with a remote sensor dispenser if you insist on wheels but it's not any faster than usual.  Good for urban warfare spotting since it still has the AC/20 but not really what you're looking for in the speed department.

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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #22 on: 05 August 2014, 11:24:12 »
I'm not that big a fan of mixing hovers and wheels/tracks in a lance, but this might be the time to get over my hangups about it. Hmm...swap one of the Skulkers out for the Peggy, and use a Skulker MG...I've got good spotting electronics, striking firepower on four decently-armored chassis, and the cargo space for four squads of support infantry...I think we might have a winner after all!
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Moonsword

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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #23 on: 05 August 2014, 16:11:24 »
I'm not a huge fan of it either most of the time but in this case, the wheeled vehicles can just about keep up with the hover - the Skulkers and Packrats are 7/11 compared to the Pegasus's 8/12 speed.  On dry ground, they've got the same terrain restrictions, too.  That makes it less egregious than usual.

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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #24 on: 05 August 2014, 16:12:38 »
If you want to make a packrat scary, load up six tau zombie troopers in there.  Your opponent will twitch at even the most minor threats after that.
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Weirdo

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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #25 on: 05 August 2014, 16:58:51 »
If you want to make a packrat scary, load up six tau zombie troopers in there.  Your opponent will twitch at even the most minor threats after that.

Yeah, between those guys and all the silly things you can do with the missile rack, a Packrat and some Zombies can easily add up to a minor atrocity. Not sure if they're quite "make 'em twitch" threats, but I guess they can be if your group is used to very small games. While they can't really be ignored in the larger games either, they're not THAT big a threat when the big boys start coming out to play.
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"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #26 on: 05 August 2014, 19:43:40 »
As always, a fast vehicle in an urban environment like this makes me always think of magnetic-clamp battle armor like the Fa Shih... you know, in case you're just a total jerkwad.
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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #27 on: 05 August 2014, 19:56:18 »
Well, yeah. I can always make that recon platoon twice as nasty by adding a short platoon of Longinus Mags. O0
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"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
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SteelRaven

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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #28 on: 05 August 2014, 22:46:48 »
Hell, I might just paint one black and call it the Tumbler ;)
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Re: VotW: Pack Rat
« Reply #29 on: 05 August 2014, 23:39:19 »
Used them before in a Chaos March campaign, they were part of the reaction force against the incoming rebels & mercs . . . tried flanking when the armor and limited mechs ran into the rebel/merc force.  They got off some SRMs, but then were retasked to scout the escape . . . which turned into a barely controlled rout.  The movement mods made targeting them difficult enough only one got popped on the flanks in that desert terrain.
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