Author Topic: VotW: Weapons Carriers  (Read 29864 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: Weapons Carriers
« on: 30 August 2014, 22:02:05 »


Let's first get this out of the way- this isn't the first time these have been covered. An article was indeed posted about these guys in 2006... A lot has happened in eight years, and to my knowledge the original article isn't around anymore. So... here's a new one. You know where to file the complaints.

We covered the LBX Carrier last week, and it seemed only logical to continue that trend into this week with these longtime favorites of fans everywhere. I'll also admit that this week at work was pretty hectic and my hours were long, which meant that covering a vehicle that required little to no playtesting first was a must for me... and really, who among us who use vehicles in Battletech hasn't ever used one of these? No introductions needed here, right?

Weapons carriers are as simple as a concept gets. Enough engine to move from one place to another at a pace faster than 'stopped', enough armor to survive a couple of small-scale weapons like an infantry attack, and enough firepower to make a city block vanish in two minutes flat. I often say that vehicle (and Mech) design is based around 'speed, armor, firepower- pick two'. These things go double on the firepower- and it means that while they have an undeniable presence in the field, their life span is measured in moments once the enemy realizes they're around. Combine a fearsome reputation and thin armor, and it means these will get a LOT of attention until they go away.

Now, despite the different looks above, the LRM and SRM carriers (and the AC carrier) all are pretty much alike in terms of their chassis. We'll go over the basics- the engine first. At sixty tons, these beasts sadly are too big for a light vehicle bay on a dropship, which really is a pity because it almost seems like a waste to use a large bay on something nearly disposable like this. A 180-rated ICE engine is the kind of low-cost, barely effective power plant one would expect a unit like this to carry- maybe not the most efficient way to travel, but cheapest for sure- and this is all about low cost, after all. Not much to write home about here.

Armor is more of a theory than a coating on a carrier. Eight points cover each location- and despite the artwork claiming otherwise, there's no turret. Two tons of standard plating- if you wanted more than that, you should have saved your pennies for a Manticore. Again, not much to write home about here- and if you take anything more than a large laser during the fighting, not much chance the crew going home, either. Really- this is enough to stop an infantry attack long enough to retreat or call for help, and not much else- your average Battlemech will eat these for lunch.

And it had BETTER eat fast, because if we didn't spend tonnage on armor or power plant... ohhhhhh mama, these things have the kind of punch that makes a Mechwarrior leave stains on their seats. There's a lot to cover here, but we'll start with the original 3026 models and work our way out from there- rather than split things up by type, I'm going to go by basic era. Do try to keep up, won't you?

Our first stop is the LRM Carrier. In an era devoid of Gauss rifles, ER beam weapons, and the like, LRMs were the long range weapon of choice in most armies. A couple of ten-racks on a Dervish or Whitworth could rain down warheads on a target almost at will with little risk of return fire, and the might of the twin 20-racks on an Archer was a force to be reckoned with. In strolls the LRM Carrier with THREE mighty LRM-20 racks, and enough ammo to maintain that barrage for a full two minutes each (exactly a minute and a half longer than it would be expected to survive). That makes an LRM Carrier a brute in this era, able to summon a huge barrage at a target at long ranges, and its thin armor hopefully stopping return fire long enough to make the target go away. And if one is dangerous, a whole platoon of them is just madness.

The SRM Carrier, however, is the stuff Mechwarriors have nightmares about. Same idea, but this time it's short range missiles- a sobering ten SRM-6 packs in a big boxy array on top of the tank. Now, this is scary as hell- sixty warheads screaming in at me at once? Holy crap, RUN! But wait- in order to fire them, our intrepid little guy has to roll right into standard combat ranges for the era, in with all the medium lasers and such. And as I said before, with this kind of firepower and reputation, it will get attention- no one wants to take that beating, so it becomes a priority to make it go away. And with that eggshell armor, it WILL go away quickly- the question is, what went down with it? Trading a cheap-as-hell SRM Carrier in an ambush for the enemy commander's Zeus is a pretty nice tradeoff. The author suggests combining hidden SRM Carriers with similarly-hidden Hetzers to get a massive punch from the Hetzers' guns, and then fill the holes made with warheads from the carrier. This suggestion comes with the caveat that you're likely to be beaten in the parking lot after the game, so use this combo wisely.

The forgotten cousin in this era was the AC-2 carrier. Same idea as before, but this time the barrage is five AC-2s. Yay? Well, they're the only non-artillery weapon that outranges the LRM in this era, so a platoon chattering away from a hill can light up a target with small pinprick hits before they can even think about shooting back. These aren't nearly as fearsome as their missile-toting cousins, but can be effective in a group- and particularly if properly protected from things getting close (a Panther or two is a good start). Still, you're probably better off using an LRM Carrier- even in later eras when the ACs can use non-standard munitions, they're still only AC-2s... and if you have access to stuff like that, you probably have better units to put the ammo on than an AC-2 Carrier anyway.

3058 saw the first upgrades to these units in hundreds of solid-use years. Again we start with the LRM Carrier, which got the bigger upgrade of the two. The biggest change was the drop to a 120 engine, making this barely mobile. The weight freed up went into Artemis IV fire control for the missiles racks (which are still three -20s, same as ever), as well as a C3 slave node. You're not going anywhere fast, but you really weren't before either- and now you're dropping fire with more accuracy than before, and with the ability to use C3 mates to improve your gunnery. It's tough to say if it's an upgrade- depends on if you need that movement or not. The icing on the cake is the change to ferro-fibrous, giving a small bit of extra protection to a unit that literally can only produce a +1 modifier if it drives all-out in a straight line now.

The SRM upgrade deserves only a few words- one SRM rack is removed (leaving you with a pitiful nine left) in favor of a Narc launcher. The utility of this is obvious- even if your carrier dies, it does so now by not only delivering a horrific barrage of missiles, it also dropped a pod on you for its mates to use when they come leaping out of cover. One of the nastiest tanks out there got nastier. Great, that'll make enemy commanders happy.

A similar SRM model dropped the Narc for C3 Slave gear and a Guardian ECM system. The ECM is handy, but the C3 is joyous- probably even better than the Narc, really. It's an SRM Carrier, you have to bum-rush the target anyway and get into short range, so why not provide fire solutions to mates downrange- say, that LRM Carrier upgrade, for example? Wonderful tank- for as long as it lasts. (note to Mechwarriors: Make that 'not very long')

As we got into the 3060s, and the fighting in the former Federated Commonwealth heated up before exploding into the fires of the Jihad, we saw even more variants come up, with new toys that continue to move away from the original 'cheap as hell' concept. For starters, the AC version got its only upgrade to date, replacing the cannons with LB-2Xs. Anything flying needs to avoid the hell out of that for obvious reasons. Not much else to say- if you need AA support on the cheap, a couple of these will make life hell on the flyboys. But that's not all- the engine became a fusion model (oooooh, fancy!), and the weight saved went into a C3 slave (seeing a trend?) and some much-beloved armor- the plating has been doubled, making carrier-crews much happier. Oh, and with four tons of ammo, go ahead and fire at high to-hit numbers. We don't care, we're paid by the shell casing.

The SRM Carrier got an upgrade at this point at the hands of the Word of Blake. The new light fusion engine was used here, bumping the speed up a notch and giving more much-needed armor. An electronics suite gets installed too- Guardian, a C3i system, and TAG- because what's worse than getting pelted by an SRM Carrier, getting pelted with artillery as well. The missiles got a change, too- to ten Streak SRM-4s. The loss of the ability to use inferno ammo is more than made up for in sheer 'oh god don't hurt me' power. This here? This is how to make heretics bleed, Blake fans. Bonus points- that turret-looking system is actually a turret, at last! They make excellent guards for your long-range fighting units- no one wants to stick their head in that buzzsaw.

Hey, I bet the Blakists upgraded the LRM Carrier too, didn't they? Look at that. The same LFE gets put in, with the same results. C3i is installed as well, all the more reason to love this thing. And the Artemis systems from the '58 model are here as well. A few of these, with the right support, can change even the toughest battle, and are truly one of the Words' best-kept secrets on the battlefield. Trust me- it doesn't look like much, but it really is impressive what even a couple of these can do.

The Ryuiken-yon replace their carriers' missile racks with Arrow IV launchers. Simple, basic changeout for the ability to lob a couple of Arrow rounds instead of an SRM barrage from hell. I haven't seen an official record sheet for this (which doesn't mean one doesn't exist, just that I don't know if it), but this appears to be a version unique to the Ryuken-yon and not a factory model.

As expected, the advent of the MRM also brought around an MRM Carrier, based on the LRM model. Based on the original, the three missile racks are replaced by MRM-30s for a 90-missile 'go away' sign. A C3 Slave means that sign is more likely to be noticed.

Finally, the recent looks back to days long past have yielded info on primitive versions of all three basic flavors of the carrier (LRM, SRM, and AC). These use BAR-6 armor, and not much of it, advanced fire control systems, and slightly less of the same firepower as the later 3026 models we know and love each time.

Using a carrier depends on the model- the LRM and AC versions should always remain back out of the fighting and act in support, while the SRM and MRM versions should always do the opposite and try to get in close to a target- while always keeping that target in front of the missile racks of course, because there's not much to speak of in terms of sideways protection. There's also not much armor, so anything you can do to take cover is a must- hiding between buildings and waiting for prey to walk past before popping up and lighting off a massive barrage is a great way to make life miserable on the enemy and ensure you get a shot off before dying.

Fighting them is even simpler. Kill it. Whatever version, spare a few shots at it and just make it die. It won't take much- even the best protected models are notoriously thin-skinned and will wilt under a real barrage, so just make them bleed- the alternative is that it lives longer, and that means you're much less likely to do the same. Carriers should almost always be priority targets in the early phases of a battle, no matter the flavor.

OK, request lines are open guys- I have one for next week, but past that I'm low on requests, so get those in. Next time we'll go over a request to discuss one of the newest and deadliest tanks in the Dark Age era...
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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #1 on: 30 August 2014, 22:53:14 »
Ah, nasty pieces of work, these weapons carriers. I'm especially fond of the basic LRM Carrier for saturating the battlefield with explody death (or a shitload of mines), and the Arrow variant for much the same reason. I just wish that we'd have gotten to see some variants with a Fuel Cell or one with a pair of Thumpers (or a Long Tom).

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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #2 on: 30 August 2014, 23:09:16 »
yep

you can use the base chassis for many things
any 30 ton weapon pack and 4 tons ammo
so a Long Tom or twin Thumpers
or even twin Long Tom Cannons

a fun switch is to use an LRM carrier and swap one LRM20 into 4 SRM4s and a ton of ammo and still leaving 4 tons for the LRMs
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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #3 on: 30 August 2014, 23:14:52 »
My local group has come to hate these, especially as I tend to deploy the WoB variants. I think I might try using an SRM Carrier as a bodyguard for my LRM Carriers next time I field these.

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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #4 on: 30 August 2014, 23:26:29 »
yep

you can use the base chassis for many things
any 30 ton weapon pack and 4 tons ammo
so a Long Tom or twin Thumpers
or even twin Long Tom Cannons

a fun switch is to use an LRM carrier and swap one LRM20 into 4 SRM4s and a ton of ammo and still leaving 4 tons for the LRMs

Twin Long Toms is impossible, seeing as each one's 30 tons.

Also, now that I think about it, I'm somewhat surprised that there was never a MML Carrier. Would be a lot less useful than a pure LRM/SRM, but the flexibility could be nice

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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #5 on: 30 August 2014, 23:32:19 »
an arrow IV carrier could hold two A4's and 20 missiles.. which actually wouldn't be too bad a support vehicle.

and a single long tom with 4 tons of ammo is certainly viable going by weight..
« Last Edit: 30 August 2014, 23:34:32 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #6 on: 30 August 2014, 23:33:41 »
I adore the Primitive models. Aside from the hilariously large crews, they're almost comparable to the standard models. And turning a corner into three dozen SRMs is a great way to remind those puffed up mackie pilots that they aren't invincible.
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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #7 on: 31 August 2014, 00:06:40 »
As a note for the AC/2 carrier: it's the ultimate long range cost saving measure.  Do you know how expensive LRMs are?  250 c-bills per missile.  That's right, you're shooting 15 grand out of your missile tubes every ten seconds.

Ow.

Do you know how expensive a round of AC/2 ammo is?  1,000 c-bills per ton.  That's right, you're shooting just barely more than 110 c-bills downrange per turn.

How's that for economy? ^-^
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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #8 on: 31 August 2014, 00:20:19 »
how does the AC carrier hold up against the Pike? combat wise i mean.
« Last Edit: 31 August 2014, 00:22:02 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #9 on: 31 August 2014, 00:28:49 »
It's a carrier.  It doesn't hold up anything with its tissue paper armor, much less compare favorably to a real tank.
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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #10 on: 31 August 2014, 00:38:33 »
Twin Long Toms is impossible, seeing as each one's 30 tons.

Also, now that I think about it, I'm somewhat surprised that there was never a MML Carrier. Would be a lot less useful than a pure LRM/SRM, but the flexibility could be nice

That's one long tom arty piece or two long tom cannons, the cut down versions
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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #11 on: 31 August 2014, 00:42:35 »
That's one long tom arty piece or two long tom cannons, the cut down versions

Short toms are still too heavy. Sniper Cannons would work.
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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #12 on: 31 August 2014, 00:46:58 »
Armor is more of a theory than a coating on a carrier. Eight points cover each location- and despite the artwork claiming otherwise, there's no turret. Two tons of standard plating- if you wanted more than that, you should have saved your pennies for a Manticore. Again, not much to write home about here- and if you take anything more than a large laser during the fighting, not much chance the crew going home, either. Really- this is enough to stop an infantry attack long enough to retreat or call for help, and not much else- your average Battlemech will eat these for lunch.

Our first stop is the LRM Carrier. In an era devoid of Gauss rifles, ER beam weapons, and the like, LRMs were the long range weapon of choice in most armies. A couple of ten-racks on a Dervish or Whitworth could rain down warheads on a target almost at will with little risk of return fire, and the might of the twin 20-racks on an Archer was a force to be reckoned with. In strolls the LRM Carrier with THREE mighty LRM-20 racks, and enough ammo to maintain that barrage for a full two minutes each (exactly a minute and a half longer than it would be expected to survive).

Unless they changed the stats when I wasn't looking both missile carriers have three tons of armor (12 points each facing) rather than the two you site, and four tons of ammo.  For an LRM carrier that works out to eight full salvos, less than a minute and a half, not two full minutes (which would need six tons of ammo).

Quote
3058 saw the first upgrades to these units in hundreds of solid-use years. Again we start with the LRM Carrier, which got the bigger upgrade of the two. The biggest change was the drop to a 120 engine, making this barely mobile. The weight freed up went into Artemis IV fire control for the missiles racks (which are still three -20s, same as ever), as well as a C3 slave node. You're not going anywhere fast, but you really weren't before either- and now you're dropping fire with more accuracy than before, and with the ability to use C3 mates to improve your gunnery. It's tough to say if it's an upgrade- depends on if you need that movement or not. The icing on the cake is the change to ferro-fibrous, giving a small bit of extra protection to a unit that literally can only produce a +1 modifier if it drives all-out in a straight line now.

Except neither Artemis nor C3 do a damn thing for indirect fire.  Which is a BFD, since that is the standard way you keep your LRM carriers from dying due to a PPC double tap at range.  So you either expose a vulnerable unit in an era of more powerful and accurate long range weapons, or you hide it and all that gear becomes expensive ballast.

Quote
The SRM upgrade deserves only a few words- one SRM rack is removed (leaving you with a pitiful nine left) in favor of a Narc launcher. The utility of this is obvious- even if your carrier dies, it does so now by not only delivering a horrific barrage of missiles, it also dropped a pod on you for its mates to use when they come leaping out of cover. One of the nastiest tanks out there got nastier. Great, that'll make enemy commanders happy.

Except that that NARC doesn't do a damn thing to improve the carrier with it, just reduces the firepower by 10%.  If you did the job right the target didn't survive the first barrage, because the carrier sure won't.  And it can't self designate, you have to give away where you are to hit him with the Narc.  No, Narc and missile boats work best when you have something light and fast carry the Narc instead.

Quote
A similar SRM model dropped the Narc for C3 Slave gear and a Guardian ECM system. The ECM is handy, but the C3 is joyous- probably even better than the Narc, really. It's an SRM Carrier, you have to bum-rush the target anyway and get into short range, so why not provide fire solutions to mates downrange- say, that LRM Carrier upgrade, for example? Wonderful tank- for as long as it lasts. (note to Mechwarriors: Make that 'not very long')

Now this is scary, and worth losing 10% of your firepower.  C3 to bring the target closer in your scopes, and if using TacOps rules, ghost targets to maybe survive to get in an extra salvo or three.

Quote
Using a carrier depends on the model- the LRM and AC versions should always remain back out of the fighting and act in support, while the SRM and MRM versions should always do the opposite and try to get in close to a target- while always keeping that target in front of the missile racks of course, because there's not much to speak of in terms of sideways protection. There's also not much armor, so anything you can do to take cover is a must- hiding between buildings and waiting for prey to walk past before popping up and lighting off a massive barrage is a great way to make life miserable on the enemy and ensure you get a shot off before dying.

LRM carriers are poor Merc's artillery.  Find woods and hills to hide behind and lob in.  If possible invest in semi-guided rounds and a couple good TAG equipped units to spot.  Narc homing missiles and something else Narcing targets work since IIRC that means you don't need an IDF spotter to hit that target. Don't bother with anything other than the base model, the expense isn't worth it.

SRM and MRM carriers are self deployed mech scale claymores.  Expect to get them back as often as the mine.  ::)  If you try, I suggest urban terrain where you can liberally use 'concrete armor' to extend their combat life.

In terms of shipping, I don't see that as a downside.  I view missile carriers as garrison machines, something that sometimes locals kitbash out of a military grade tracked chassis and some spare missile launchers.
« Last Edit: 31 August 2014, 08:42:25 by Nikas_Zekeval »

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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #13 on: 31 August 2014, 01:33:00 »
It's a carrier.  It doesn't hold up anything with its tissue paper armor, much less compare favorably to a real tank.

actually meant side by side compare, not head to head. if i want to bring AC2 tanks for long range plinking support, which would be the better choice?

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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #14 on: 31 August 2014, 02:55:47 »
The AC/2 variant isn't as nasty as one would think, unlike LRM's AC/2's need LoS.
And you missed a model: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1861/laser-carrier-standard

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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #15 on: 31 August 2014, 06:40:14 »
I think the use of these will depend on your doctrine. To use an analogy that I think fits, look at tank destroyers/assault guns in WW2: the US Army made them part of Tank Destroyer Battalions and then split those up and attached them to armoured units who thought they were tanks because they looked like tanks and failed to realise they were armoured like sardine or spam cans and so they died; the British Army made them part of the Royal Artillery and used them more conservatively but with far better survival rates.
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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #16 on: 31 August 2014, 07:43:38 »
actually meant side by side compare, not head to head. if i want to bring AC2 tanks for long range plinking support, which would be the better choice?

I can help with that. Pike.

Few things outrange an AC-2 carrier, so it can plink away without any reply- briefly. As soon as something does close to LRM range or so though, one good salvo takes down the carrier. A Pike, however, fires only 60% as much lead per turn, but can take a pretty solid beating once the enemy does start firing back- and can at least make a passing attempt at dealing with targets in-close with the SRMs (hey, infernos at fast hovers, flechettes at infantry?), something the carrier can't do at all. Finally, the carrier's guns are forward mounted- the Pike has that nice turret to keep the guns firing no matter what direction the enemy is located.

If you're picking one or the other for your merc unit, buy Pikes. Every time. Preferably in bulk.

(NOTE: I'm a self-admitted diehard Pike fan and would recommend buying them over a whole mess of other vehicles for a merc force anyway. I've had nothing but good fortune with them over the years.)

That's not to say the AC Carrier is a lemon- but it's not going to last long once it starts taking return fire, and the extra two guns don't really make up for that here, at least in my experience.
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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #17 on: 31 August 2014, 10:40:05 »
I adore the Primitive models. Aside from the hilariously large crews, they're almost comparable to the standard models. And turning a corner into three dozen SRMs is a great way to remind those puffed up mackie pilots that they aren't invincible.

The fundamental design concept behind the Carriers makes them age much better than most units.  More balanced units tend to be left behind because a higher tech enemy will have more of everything than they do, but a highly lopsided design like the Carriers holds on well because they always have an impressive punch.  Sure their armor and mobility gets even worse in comparison to other units, but the difference is kind of negligible when both were more hypothetical than practical.  Meanwhile, the old guns still pack plenty of kick and allow the Carriers to make a meaningful contribution to the fight even when deployed alongside the best the Clans have to offer because the various 60-ton carriers can generally put out more damage than the 60-ton Mad Dog.  Incidentally, this is exactly why I usually pass up nominally better IS vehicles for the carriers when designing Clan vehicle forces.

I can help with that. Pike.

Few things outrange an AC-2 carrier, so it can plink away without any reply- briefly. As soon as something does close to LRM range or so though, one good salvo takes down the carrier. A Pike, however, fires only 60% as much lead per turn, but can take a pretty solid beating once the enemy does start firing back- and can at least make a passing attempt at dealing with targets in-close with the SRMs (hey, infernos at fast hovers, flechettes at infantry?), something the carrier can't do at all. Finally, the carrier's guns are forward mounted- the Pike has that nice turret to keep the guns firing no matter what direction the enemy is located.

If you're picking one or the other for your merc unit, buy Pikes. Every time. Preferably in bulk.

(NOTE: I'm a self-admitted diehard Pike fan and would recommend buying them over a whole mess of other vehicles for a merc force anyway. I've had nothing but good fortune with them over the years.)

That's not to say the AC Carrier is a lemon- but it's not going to last long once it starts taking return fire, and the extra two guns don't really make up for that here, at least in my experience.

The question in my mind is how likely is it that the Carrier will actually take return fire?  Sure the enemy can try to tag it with LRMs, but the to hit numbers will be bad due to range and it will probably take several hits to get rid of even with its pitiful armor so I kind of doubt they will go for it when it is only dealing a maximum of 10 damage a round with similarly bad TNs.

The Pike is definitely safer, but I am not entirely convinced you actually need that extra safety net.


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Wrangler

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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #18 on: 31 August 2014, 17:31:10 »
Also, now that I think about it, I'm somewhat surprised that there was never a MML Carrier. Would be a lot less useful than a pure LRM/SRM, but the flexibility could be nice

Actually, there was a MML equipped Weapon Carrier, but it was variant of the Heavy LRM Carrier called the Heavy MML Carrier.

I'm not sure if  JadeHellbringer would cover it separate from them since its technically its own animal.   On top of the Heavy MML Carrier variant, there a Heavy NLRM Carrier which carriers Extended Range LRM 15s.  This thing can survive to with its Harden Armor covering the thing.

Thanks for the great write up,  JadeHellbringer!
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SteelRaven

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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #19 on: 31 August 2014, 20:18:39 »
It's a staple of the BTU for a reason. With a good spotter, a couple of LRM carries are always a nice surprise.
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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #20 on: 31 August 2014, 20:21:44 »
The LRM carrier makes a lot of sense - indirect fire makes it possible to keep them alive long enough to use some of their ammo. The SRM carrier seems to require special circumstances to get value out of them - OTOH, urban warfare provides that sort of special circumstance, I suppose.
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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #21 on: 31 August 2014, 21:03:15 »
The SRM carrier is an ambusher, urban thug, and a nice fourth member to a three LRM carrier lance. If the lance is doing their job right, the SRM carrier goes home with full ammo bins.

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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #22 on: 31 August 2014, 21:15:16 »
The SRM carrier is an ambusher, urban thug, and a nice fourth member to a three LRM carrier lance. If the lance is doing their job right, the SRM carrier goes home with full ammo bins.
SRM Carriers under hidden units have the potential to be very nasty, just load them with a ton of Tear Gas and hope something like a Destrier goes past

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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #23 on: 31 August 2014, 21:17:40 »
You know thinking about it, I'm surprised that the Republic never adapted the versions of the WoB's weapon carriers for their use.  Won't downgraded version of the c3 system be possible for them?  The Republic adapted a lot of the more conventional units for their use, some times renaming them.
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YingJanshi

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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #24 on: 31 August 2014, 21:21:17 »
As SCC brought up...what are your guy's thoughts on the Laser Carrier?
I've never used, always used the Ontos instead.

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JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #25 on: 31 August 2014, 22:00:47 »
Actually, there was a MML equipped Weapon Carrier, but it was variant of the Heavy LRM Carrier called the Heavy MML Carrier.

I'm not sure if  JadeHellbringer would cover it separate from them since its technically its own animal.   On top of the Heavy MML Carrier variant, there a Heavy NLRM Carrier which carriers Extended Range LRM 15s.  This thing can survive to with its Harden Armor covering the thing.

Thanks for the great write up,  JadeHellbringer!

Yeah, there was enough to talk about here that I figured I'd leave the light SRM and heavy LRM versions for another time. I'm a big fan of both, personally, and want them to get the separate credit they deserve... another time.

(As a side note, three people have independently requested the exact same tank for next week, which amuses the hell out of me- because before any of the requests came in I had that tank in mind for an upcoming article.
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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #26 on: 31 August 2014, 22:55:35 »
SRM Carriers under hidden units have the potential to be very nasty, just load them with a ton of Tear Gas and hope something like a Destrier goes past

Considering that for a vehicle to be affected with tear gas, it has to end the subsequent turn in the cloud (first turn doesn't do anything, and moving through does even less), you'd better be able to immobilize it first.  And then expect to lose the entire lance of them.
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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #27 on: 31 August 2014, 23:05:19 »
(As a side note, three people have independently requested the exact same tank for next week, which amuses the hell out of me- because before any of the requests came in I had that tank in mind for an upcoming article.

Really, two other people requested the same one as me? Heh, that's pretty funny. I'm really looking forward to the article now, I'm curious to see what you think once you've put it through its paces.


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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #28 on: 01 September 2014, 04:03:59 »
The LRM carrier makes a lot of sense - indirect fire makes it possible to keep them alive long enough to use some of their ammo. The SRM carrier seems to require special circumstances to get value out of them - OTOH, urban warfare provides that sort of special circumstance, I suppose.

Or having more high-value targets accompany the SRM carriers as they advance.  Who do you fire at first--the trio of SRM carriers coming towards you, or the Archer and the Crusader providing covering fire?

I was on the receiving end of SRM carriers vs. King Crab--watching my KC get turned into Swiss cheese in 1 phase of fire is an experience I will NEVER forget.  (True, I gutted one of the SRM carriers with an AC/20, but that was the only turn I ever got to fire them...)

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Re: VotW: Weapons Carriers
« Reply #29 on: 01 September 2014, 07:11:37 »
Yeah, there was enough to talk about here that I figured I'd leave the light SRM and heavy LRM versions for another time. I'm a big fan of both, personally, and want them to get the separate credit they deserve... another time.
Fyi, there is an Article on the heavy lurm by moonsword already, so that's covered. ;)
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