Author Topic: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle  (Read 9771 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« on: 21 December 2014, 15:13:31 »


Welcome to another edition of VotW, where we again will be covering a unit by request- if you want something covered, why not take a minute to send me a note saying so? Your request could be next week! (I mean, probably not, because I do have a list to go through, but at least you'll make the list, right?)

A lot has changed in the Dark Age era compared to the horrors of the Jihad before it. But somet hings haven't- for example, aerospace fighters are just as big of a pain in the ass as they have been for centuries- maybe even more, really. An army, whether on attack or defense, needs a way to keep the skies clear in case their own airpower can't do the job. That's nothing new- after all, a look at the modern world will show you vehicles like the ZSU-23-4 Shilka (most famously) are a vital part of any armored force. In the post-Jihad era, the Wolf Clan looked at their forces and realized that they lacked the kind of AA firepower that a Clan traditionally would give to units like the Glass Spider or Rifleman IIC- neither unit was available for production anymore to the reeling Wolves, so what to do? A replacement had to be cheap, rugged, and able to keep the skies clear. The result is a unit that feels utilitarian and spartan, but viciously effective at its intended role- so, basically the opposite of what most older Clan vehicles are like. Let's look at the Aesir.

With the end of the threat of the Word of Blake, and the loss of contact with the Homeworlds, the Clans in the Inner Sphere were left with only their IS holdings for production. While the Bears shrugged this off and the Falcons were able to easily soldier through, the Wolf Clan had relied heavily on Homeworld production- combined with the scouring of Tamar, this left the Wolves in bad shape. A new AA unit had to be low cost and simple to build with what they had left, and the Aesir fits the bill nicely. In fact, it worked too well- it attracted the attention of the Exiled Wolves, who took the design in a Trial of Posession (I'm sure THAT wasn't a bitter fight at all), became available to the Sea Foxes, and soon was a staple in the Republic and beyond.

Aesirs aren't fast units. Despite being only 55 tons, the wheeled tank can only get to a 3/5 movement curve, struggling to keep up with even the most lumbering assault force. That's not good, if you're trying to advance quickly- your AA bubble might get left behind. What little movement there is comes from a fusion engine, leading the author to wonder about the pros and cons of using a fuel cell motor instead, but that's just idle second-guessing. For defense, this means Aesirs can move between defensive positions when needed, but if forced to withdraw these units likely won't be able to defend themselves against ground forces advancing on them. Treat these like the king in chess- defend them, because they can't move quickly but are vital to your forces.

If it can't move, it can at least keep from BEING moved. The surprisingly tough Aesir skipped out on engine size to gain some armor- nine and a half tons of ferro-fibrous armor on a 55-ton tank is nothing to sneeze at. This armor is arrayed very evenly, conceding that an air attack is likely to be able to come from any direction to strike an Aesir. The front and rear each have 37 points, with the turret and sides having 36. Dropping an Aesir isn't overly difficult compared to something larger, but that's still solid protection for its size- and there's no weak points to exploit, which can make it very difficult to find a good way to get your aircraft in to knock out the defensive tank. CASE is included (this being Clan technology) to keep the vehicle and its crew from being wiped out in the event of an ammunition explosion. To make matters worse, immobilizing it wont' be easy either thanks to the armored motive system- so while an Aesir won't be going anywhere fast, it WILL keep going there unless you outright kill it.

Now, let's talk AA firepower. (I can already hear Weirdo giggling) Light autocannons have long been considered good AA weapons, going all the way back to TRO:3025 days with the Jagermech. But... are they? The long range is nice, but the pinprick attacks can prove to be annoying more than anything oftentimes, particularly to larger craft. A long-ago game showed the author that the chattering of four Ultra AC-2s from a Rifleman IIC-2 would probably look impressive on the battlefield, but did little more than annoy the pair of Jagatai fighters it was tasked with helping to put down- they literally ignored the Rifleman most of the day because even if it scored hits, who cared? But, golden BBs happen, and long-range guns can make a fighter very miserable with a lucky shot or two.

The Aesir accomplishes its role by using a quartet of light ACs, much like the Rifleman IIC-2 does- in this case however, it's LB-2X guns, all in the small turret on the rear end of the tank. Fed by two tons of ammo- and this should almost always be cluster rounds, considering the job at hand- an Aesir can make VTOLs vanish in a heartbeat, and light aerospace fighters are best advised to beware as well. While heavier craft like large fighters or dropships are unlikely to care about four LB-2X guns pinging away, Aesirs are rarely deployed alone, and those hits can start adding up quickly. However, against ground forces- particularly Battlemechs- these guns are little more than a nuisance, and a fast medium Mech like a Legionnaire or Ryoken will make short work of even a small group of Aesirs unless they're properly supported.

The Hells Horses' version is the only official variant, stripping the ACs in favor of a single turret-mounted HAG-40. Well, so much for the light firepower problem. While the HAG loses some range, and the ammo load bears watching, few units of any kind want to be caught by a barrage from this weapon- keeping a couple of these with your standard Aesirs is a great way to keep enemy forces honest, and if needed it makes for a pretty handy 'Hetzer IIC' assault gun style unit, though still abysmally slow for the job. I'm a fan of this, but I can't help but feel like going with a HAG-30 still gives it a massive punch while allowing for a bit more ammo and maybe some defensive lasers.

Using Aesirs is simple- park it somewhere with a good field of fire but away from the front line a bit, and if it flies, kill it. If you start to get overrun, you're better off standing your ground and trying to support the tank than fleeing- it's not going to make it, between the wheeled chassis and slow speed. Get aggressive, you're Clan, for Kerensky's sake! Deploying them with a bodyguard unit is a must- the author in particular found that the Ishtar made a good companion for a group of Aesirs.

Killing Aesirs is, as I said before, a matter of rushing up on them with quick ground forces and making life miserable. Since LB-2X fire is pretty fatal to hovercraft and VTOLs, try using Mechs instead- while many fast moving Mechs like Spiders will struggle to get through all that armor in a quick fashion, fast units with a heavy punch like the Pack Hunter or Wraith will be excellent for the job. Do NOT attempt that with the HAG version, however- getting near a HAG-40 is almsot always unpleasant, try to take that one down from a distance if you can. Hit them hard and quick- you won't immobilize them, so just try to get through that armor in one or two turns if you can.

Any changes you'd make to this thing? Maybe CRACs? It looks like the old BTR-series of vehicles from the old Soviet Union, maybe an APC model is in order? Mortars? Streak LRMs? Let me know what you want to see here.

VotW will be taking next weekend off for the holidays and will return on Jan. 3- have a happy holiday, thank you for your continued reading, and keep the requests coming in!
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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #1 on: 21 December 2014, 15:34:40 »
Okay, I'm biased, but if they really wanted a cheap AA unit, they should have either imported or ersatzed the Partisan AA truck ;)

THe chassis is definitely visually appealing. In mini terms it's actually big enough to be a believable APC for battle armour, and I often use it as such.

Philosophically, if they'll replace the quartet of BB guns with the biggest cluster **** - oops, gun - in the West, then in theory they could put anything on the chassis. Mech Mortars keep with the feel, but I'd try and keep with the AA connection. Imagine popping a Clan LPL and lots of LRMs in instead - you'll get lots of chances to hit (I don't often recommend LRM-5 spamming, but here it makes sense) with the cheese power and range of the LPL to keep people honest.

The gent who designed the stats got kinda stuck on this one with DA pre-determining four Clan cannons. The armoured motive system was a great addition.

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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #2 on: 21 December 2014, 16:10:58 »
Thanks for the article!


The gent who designed the stats got kinda stuck on this one with DA pre-determining four Clan cannons. The armoured motive system was a great addition.


I disagree... the armored motive system weights too much and the bonus it gets barely compensates the wheeled system lack of toughness. For the same weight it could have been a 4/6 wheeled, a 3/5 tracked or a 3/5 wheeled with ICE. However, it is a good AA tank, with a lot of armor and nice LBX2 clustero cloud of doom. It is like a Pike IIC but with more Dakka. Useful against anything that flies, long range plinker (ideal for getting motive system rolls at long range) and tough. 
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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #3 on: 21 December 2014, 16:37:23 »
Does this have a turret or not? The art indicates it has, the article makes no mention of it (except for the HAG40 variant).

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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #4 on: 21 December 2014, 17:22:00 »
Does this have a turret or not? The art indicates it has, the article makes no mention of it (except for the HAG40 variant).

The LBX2 are in the turret. The art is very nice, it looks like a cold war AA tank.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #5 on: 21 December 2014, 17:51:23 »
Does this have a turret or not? The art indicates it has, the article makes no mention of it (except for the HAG40 variant).

Quote
This armor is arrayed very evenly, conceding that an air attack is likely to be able to come from any direction to strike an Aesir. The front and rear each have 37 points, with the turret and sides having 36.



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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #6 on: 21 December 2014, 17:56:55 »
For some reason, i didn't see that note about the turret. The side armor i did notice.

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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #7 on: 21 December 2014, 22:27:32 »
If you use these to ambush a CGB Aesir dropship on landing, do you reach Aesirception?

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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #8 on: 21 December 2014, 22:41:10 »
The gent who designed the stats got kinda stuck on this one with DA pre-determining four Clan cannons. The armoured motive system was a great addition.

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Armour type, engine, guns. I forget about armour placement. So limited options and TCs don't work with LBx.

On placement and the armored motive system remember that most bombs are area effect weapons.

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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #9 on: 22 December 2014, 00:34:27 »
Thanks for the article!

I disagree... the armored motive system weights too much and the bonus it gets barely compensates the wheeled system lack of toughness. For the same weight it could have been a 4/6 wheeled, a 3/5 tracked or a 3/5 wheeled with ICE. However, it is a good AA tank, with a lot of armor and nice LBX2 clustero cloud of doom. It is like a Pike IIC but with more Dakka. Useful against anything that flies, long range plinker (ideal for getting motive system rolls at long range) and tough.

It's a matter of dice math... The Armored Motive System means the Aesir AA is not like a Tracked unit for motivie crits. Now instead of your lowest possible roll being a 4, your lowest possible roll is a 2. You've greatly increased your chance of not losing any MP.

A 4/6 would likely be down to 3/5 very quickly.

Granted, on a Tracked tank Armored Motive System is best and on a hover you almost want it just so you can survive the battlefield. Still -2 on your motive crit roll is pretty good odds to me.
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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #10 on: 22 December 2014, 01:27:50 »
The Aesir is such a quintessential AA unit, it's hard to actually find specific comments about this tank in particular. Between the range, range, range, and to-hit bonuses, you're gonna hit what you aim at. You won't do much actual damage to anything but the lightest fighters, though you'll utterly murder VTOLs and WiGEs. The low speed is worrisome, but that just means that you run Partisans with your cav units, and this thing follows your assaults around. You can also park one or two at any temporary firebases, field HQs, or ammo dumps, any place you might find yourself having to defend, but can't take the time to build a Castle Brian AA tower for it.
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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #11 on: 22 December 2014, 01:41:32 »
This is definitely not your offense AA. This is what your unload and park around your DropShips, and your HQ. If it's not moving, this is the tool.


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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #12 on: 22 December 2014, 09:33:34 »
Reminds me a lot of ye ol' Clan Pike. I think I prefer this guy, though, it's a nice tank to have around.
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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #13 on: 22 December 2014, 10:01:16 »
I liked this one from the minute I saw it if I'm honest

I'm with JadeHellbringer a fuel cell variant would have been really cool

The HAG variant is so much fun as well especially when you have a few of them handy  O0
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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #14 on: 22 December 2014, 11:19:04 »
A nice design that would have been better with a 5 ton diet.  A 55 ton vehicle is waste, to light for being with the heavies but taking a heavy storage bay.

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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #15 on: 22 December 2014, 12:02:32 »
I for one am glad this tank exists alongside the Partisan AAA to illustrate the different approaches to countering this big broad category we call airborne.

JHB talks about golden BBs.  To me, the strength of the Aesir is multiple attempts to hit.  That translates into more opportunities to inflict a lawn dart check.  The longer range of the LB2Xs means it is better suited for going after ASFs, whereas the quicker movement of the Partisan allows it to play around with threat ranges of WiGEs and VTOLs to a higher degree, especially since VTOLs and WiGEs share standard ground initiative with the Partisans.

VTOLs shouldn't feel overly threatened by an Aesir.  The low movement profile and minimum range of the LB2Xs means it has room to attack the Aesir without much response.
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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #16 on: 22 December 2014, 13:18:48 »
A nice design that would have been better with a 5 ton diet.  A 55 ton vehicle is waste, to light for being with the heavies but taking a heavy storage bay.

Aesirs are not the kinds of tanks you bring in a vehicle bay.  Partisan AA vehicles fit in a light, and those are what you should be using for your initial LZ air defense.  Aesirs are the kinds of tanks you bring in the cargo hold, and get set up 30 to 60 minutes after landing to give your LZs an overlapping net of heavy AAA.  With that in mind, the weight of the vehicle is ultimately irrelevant.  If anything, at that point 55 tons is then the sweet spot because you're spending a minimum of extra cargo space for something that you don't want in a vehicle bay anyway.
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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #17 on: 22 December 2014, 15:09:02 »
I for one am glad this tank exists alongside the Partisan AAA to illustrate the different approaches to countering this big broad category we call airborne.

JHB talks about golden BBs.  To me, the strength of the Aesir is multiple attempts to hit.  That translates into more opportunities to inflict a lawn dart check.  The longer range of the LB2Xs means it is better suited for going after ASFs, whereas the quicker movement of the Partisan allows it to play around with threat ranges of WiGEs and VTOLs to a higher degree, especially since VTOLs and WiGEs share standard ground initiative with the Partisans.

VTOLs shouldn't feel overly threatened by an Aesir.  The low movement profile and minimum range of the LB2Xs means it has room to attack the Aesir without much response.

While you're right on that last part, that comes with a caveat- a SINGLE Aesir will struggle against a VTOL. And if you brought a single Aesir for your AA needs, you're what the Clans like to call '****** in the head'. Two Aesirs is the BARE minimum for real AA defense of an LZ or facility, and really a Star should be the way it's done. This thing is cheap for a reason- so you can afford to spam the battlefield with little pellets. One can't do that. Two, now one can cover the minimum range of the other one. Better with three, or four, or whatever.

So yes, in a bubble one-on-one, a typical attack VTOL like the Warrior will probably be able to make an Aesir's life difficult. In a real battlefield scenario, you'd be trading that VTOL for one Aesir at best- because while you might drop that Aesir (unlikely given its armor and motive protection) with the VTOL's weapons, you're likely getting pelted by the other AA units around, and unlikely to survive for a second attack. Leave the helo at home, and get a Phoenix Hawk or Fenris to do the job.
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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #18 on: 22 December 2014, 19:00:37 »
Heheheh. The LBxs and HAG can quite happily play the Warrior's usual standoff game

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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #19 on: 22 December 2014, 19:44:24 »
Maybe it's just me, but for the life of me I can't see a good reason not to take the Hell's Horses version over the original. It seems like it does the same job, except basically better in every way (other than max range, I guess?).


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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #20 on: 22 December 2014, 22:36:17 »
Maybe it's just me, but for the life of me I can't see a good reason not to take the Hell's Horses version over the original. It seems like it does the same job, except basically better in every way (other than max range, I guess?).

Which in the AA role is a big thing, really. But yeah, a HAG-40 with armored wheels is never a bad thing to have around.
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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #21 on: 22 December 2014, 22:40:04 »
Maybe it's just me, but for the life of me I can't see a good reason not to take the Hell's Horses version over the original. It seems like it does the same job, except basically better in every way (other than max range, I guess?).

Like False Son said, it's all about multiple attempts to hit. The Aesir (HAG) has a single fairly accurate gun that does high damage. Decent odds to-hit and if you hit, you'll do good damage. The standard Aesir won't do heavy damage ever, but with four accurate guns, you can reasonably assume that you will hit whatever you're going to shoot at. There's something to be said about guaranteeing that any aero that enters your coverage zone has a near-100% chance of having to make a control roll. Even if you don't actually down anyone that often, it can still be a powerful psychological tool.

Looking at the Aeisr(HAG)...I wonder how useful it would be as an IFV? You don't need speed in that role, and the Aesir is highly resistant to the kinds of crippling damage enemy infantry and BA regularly put out. Couple that with a gun that easily covers the main weaknesses of infantry(range and crunch power), and you have a tank that makes a non-APC-mobile infantry/BA force...difficult to wear down from range.
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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #22 on: 22 December 2014, 23:14:27 »
Looking at the Aeisr(HAG)...I wonder how useful it would be as an IFV? You don't need speed in that role, and the Aesir is highly resistant to the kinds of crippling damage enemy infantry and BA regularly put out. Couple that with a gun that easily covers the main weaknesses of infantry(range and crunch power), and you have a tank that makes a non-APC-mobile infantry/BA force...difficult to wear down from range.

Hmmm...mixed Points of Aithons and HAG Aesirs, with suits or heavy infantry riding in the former? I could get behind that.


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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #23 on: 23 December 2014, 12:44:45 »
While you're right on that last part, that comes with a caveat- a SINGLE Aesir will struggle against a VTOL. And if you brought a single Aesir for your AA needs, you're what the Clans like to call '****** in the head'. Two Aesirs is the BARE minimum for real AA defense of an LZ or facility, and really a Star should be the way it's done. This thing is cheap for a reason- so you can afford to spam the battlefield with little pellets. One can't do that. Two, now one can cover the minimum range of the other one. Better with three, or four, or whatever.
And lest we forget, the smallest Clan vehicle formation is two vehicles. I highly suspect that a pair of them is going to be the norm, as this will let them cover each other's blind spots.

The AC's have a range of 30. HAG has a range of 24. That's a big 6 hexes of range difference. The LB cannons also have an additional -1 to hit bonus on top of the Flak bonus. The AC Aesir is a better option for a pure AA unit (IMO) because of this. As is, between the Flak bonus, and the AA Targeting quirk, either version is going to ruin someone's day if they get to close.
« Last Edit: 23 December 2014, 13:00:01 by Istal_Devalis »

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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #24 on: 23 December 2014, 22:28:46 »
I don't see the brilliance of Armored Motive System on something meant to park and shoot. Really.

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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #25 on: 23 December 2014, 22:31:58 »
The difference is between parking and getting parked. A parked Aesir is meat. A parking Aesir is highly accurate, and can relocate whenever it pleases, to keep things like artillery guessing.
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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #26 on: 23 December 2014, 22:58:24 »
As discussed its speed means that about the only forces it could escort in an attack would be the 3/5 assault mechs and tanks . . . the ArMS means that it will be able to keep grinding forwards when the opposition might have taken a few long range pot shots trying to halt the movement of the AA umbrella.  It also means that any mech that has a shotgun will be using it against mechs with open locations or heavy/assault vehicles defending a target.

Might have to take a couple of Conventional Fighters against a point of Aesir MAAVs to see how well they can stand up to some Wild Weasel action.
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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #27 on: 24 December 2014, 21:57:33 »
a pair of Asiers in the Clickwarrior game were fundamental fire support platforms for me.  I was particularly fond of the Stormhammers variant.  these puppies in addition to anti air duties can also make for fantastic anti vehicle platforms thanks to the sick range and golden BB effect.  the only things that come close to matching are ERLRMs and those can be way to heavy past the 10 racks.

best bodyguard for cost I have found while still being "Clan Like" is the Black Wolf.  keeps with the Clan Wolf theme, and the Battle Armor LBX  permits the point to swat at aerospace targeting the hex (god bless stacking rules) the asier is in.  Thunderbirds, Fenrir IIs and Cuchulainn's would work as well, albeit in different capacities.
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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #28 on: 25 December 2014, 00:44:46 »
best bodyguard for cost I have found while still being "Clan Like" is the Black Wolf.  keeps with the Clan Wolf theme, and the Battle Armor LBX  permits the point to swat at aerospace targeting the hex (god bless stacking rules) the asier is in.

That's not a bad combo! While I wouldn't count on getting many hits from the BA, it never hurts to make a long shot. Even better though,  Aesir stays focused on the fighters while the Black Wolf can deal with hovers and VTOLs trying to distract it. After all, the first rule of specialist units is "Focus on the job you were built for".
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Re: VotW: Aesir Medium AA Vehicle
« Reply #29 on: 25 December 2014, 01:01:10 »
...the Battle Armor LBX  permits the point to swat at aerospace targeting the hex

No. Black Wolves are still infantry, so unless they mount one of the AA support infantry weapons, they can never target flying aeros.
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