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Author Topic: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor  (Read 13011 times)

GreekFire

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ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« on: 05 January 2015, 01:57:26 »
From TRO:3060 - Minotaur Z from The Wars of Reaving: Supplimental

The 9-ton ProtoMech was, without a doubt, the best weight for any ProtoMech until the Wars of Reaving and the appearance of UltraHeavies. Even then, the 9-ton weightband would still occasionally surpass those heavier ProtoMechs in certain specific niches. This would mostly stem from the calculations needed to find ProtoMech engine ratings; any engine moving a ProtoMech from 3/5 all the way up to 10/15 leave more leftover weight on a 9-ton chassis than on anything lighter. Obviously, UltraHeavies unceremoniously stole the “assault” role from the 9-tonners, but the fastest custom designs can still take advantage of the lighter 9-ton chassis to mount more weaponry or armor.

Why create a lighter Proto, then? The downsides are threefold. The first is a completely “meta” concern: Battle Value. A 9-ton design has more internal structure, and will therefore always cost more BV than a comparable but lighter design. And if you’re just looking for something like a quick spotter with no frills, then you don’t want too much equipment boosting up that BV. The second disadvantage is also something that many players will choose to ignore: cost. 9-tonners cost more C-Bills (or their local equivalent) than, once again, lighter and more streamlined designs. This might be important for certain empire-building players, but the cost difference will most likely end up being, at most, in the 250,000 C-Bill per-unit range. The final disadvantage is something that only first popped up during the Wars of Reaving, but is something that absolutely has to be mentioned in this article: MagClamps. Heavier units are harder to transport than lighter ones. More on this later.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

As for the Minotaur itself, it has an incredibly intimidating presence. Carrying double the amount of firepower as the long-revered Roc, twin ER Medium Lasers mounted in the torso give it the potential to put out 14 points of damage at quite respectable ranges. That’s right - even two Minotaurs can reliably force PSRs out of much larger ‘Mechs. Its armor is close to what I'd consider to be the lowest acceptable amount for such a dangerous unit; 36 points, with 5(head), 15(torso), 3(arms), 10(legs). These numbers are very nice, with the very important torso and leg locations having the perfect amount of armor. The Minotaur does make some heavy sacrifices to speed in order to bring all of this to the table; it moves 3/5/3, a rather sluggish speed all things-Clan considered. But it does fit in well with secondline formations, with the Rifleman IIC, Behemoth, Supernova, Hightlander IIC, Blood Kite and even the mighty UrbanMech IIC all sharing the same speed profile.

Its slow speed makes it quite difficult to field offensively, so defensive use will probably be your best bet. Stick it somewhere you want to prevent your opponent from going, and hit them with a few hits that they absolutely can’t ignore. Minotaurs also make surprisingly potent snipers; the jump jets let you position yourself well, while the ER Medium Lasers have enough range to reach out and touch a lot of targets. I would qualify the Minotaur as being one of those rare ProtoMechs that actually works well as a sort of massive Battle Armored unit. 424 BV puts it at almost the same cost as an ER Laser Elemental BA Squad, so if you’re looking for something with more of a hole-punching role than your standard Elemental, this might be an option to consider.

The Minotaur has spread an insane amount, making it easier to say who *doesn’t* have access to it rather than who does. Obviously, every one of your traditional Inner Sphere Clans don’t use it (even the Falcons, Nova Cats and Wolves-in-Exile never gave it a shot), with the Coyotes being the only Homeworld Clan that chose not to make use of it.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

The Minotaur 2 came out pretty quickly, appearing in 3062. It is dramatically different from the original, a trend that would continue with its other variants. The ER Mediums are stripped, along with the all three of the jump jets. A huge chunk of armor is removed as well, with only a meager 24 points remaining [3(head), 7(torso), 3(arms), 6(legs), 2(main gun)]. What’s left is spread out decently enough, although a point from the head to put into the legs would have been nice. So, by now you should be asking yourself what could possibly be as massive as to demand that kind of weight. And that, that is an LB 2-X AC. That’s right: a ‘Mech-scale ballistic weapon was somehow crammed onto a ProtoMech. Insane only begins to describe it.

But as insane as it is, it’s not a terrible idea. The LB-X is fed by a huge 20 rounds, so keep the Minotaur 2 as far away from combat to use as much of that firepower as you can. There’s no real reason for you not to exclusively choose cluster shots, so what you end up having is a unit with a 10-hex short range and a -1 to hit for all of its “plinks”. Its best feature? It comes in at a staggeringly cheap 168 BV. That’s cheaper than some of the 4-ton ProtoMechs, and most of the 5-tonners. Still, it deals 1-2 points of damage per shot. Why bother with it? Well, a point of them can easily ground vehicles from across the map. Any sort of aerospace or VTOL unit will be in serious danger - from a unit that most likely costs a fraction of its BV cost. And hey, we just had a VotW on the Aesir. An Aesir that costs 768 BV. You can bring four Minotaur 2s to the table for 672 BV and still have BV left over for some other crunchy stuff.

As nice as all of that sounds, the Minotaur 2 is MUCH less popular. Only the Scorpions, Hellions and Star Adders use it. I’m not sure what to make of this, but I can say that Hellion fans will most likely enjoy being able to field an LB 2-X without having to use their Bandits, Ice Ferrets, Arctic Cheetahs and Huntsmen for their LB-X configs.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

The Minotaur 3, which showed up in 3064, kept the long-ranged groove going. But OH man, does it ever improve in nearly every aspect. Armor goes back up to 34 points, but is rearranged quite a bit: 2(head), 12(torso), 4(arms), 9(legs), 3(MG). I would have liked it if the legs were brought down to 7 while the torso was brought up to 14, but the decision up up-armor the arms was a smart one. Movement is brought all the way up to 5/8/5, letting it keep pace with many other ProtoMech troopers. It’s a touch too slow to work well with most Secondline Medium BattleMechs, and honestly, this time works better with a lot of Frontline stuff. There’s a nice synergy to be made between it and the Nova, Summoner, Stooping Hawk, Huntsman, etc. The ‘Mechs can focus on brawling, while the Minotaur 3 offers fire support. How? With an LRM-12, armed with 10 shots. Yep, no typo, the Minotaur 3 has even more ranged firepower than the Gorgon does.

Why am I less impressed, though? The Gorgon is streamlined, incredibly so. While the Gorgon a mechanical avatar of Clan efficiency, while the Minotaur invests a lot into its movement. A bit too much, in my eyes. And that brings up its cost. A lot. At 443 BV, it’s no longer cheap. It really suffers from the same limitations as the Hydra 3 - if you aren’t going to jump around at max speed, don’t invest in one. And if you are gonna jump, I’d suggest boosting the Minotaur 3's gunnery to get the most out of those 10 rounds of fire.

The Minotaur 3 doesn’t actually have any “canon” appearances in any RAT, MUL, or piece of fiction. I can’t really suggest any factions as a home for it more than any others, but your typical users of the Minotaur 2 and 4 seem like good bets.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Speaking of the Minotaur 4, it’s one of those Reaving designs that came out in 3073 - after the Society went off the deep end. Armor is identical to the old Minotaur 2, and that’s not where the parallels stop. The old LB-X was replaced by a ProtoMech AC/2, but the heavier ammo drops the number of shots down to 16. Still, switching from the LB-X to the PAC/2 saves 1500 kgs, and all of that goes straight to its speed: instead of moving 3/5, the Minotaur 4 now apes the Minotaur 3 by moving 5/8/5.

I’m unsure about what to make of this ProtoMech. The PAC/2's range is terrible for a long-ranged gun, since it shares the same brackets as the ERPPC, Gauss Rifle, LRMs, etc. But at the same time, you suddenly have access to a huge array of special munitions that are normal inaccessible to Clanners. There’s no way I can suggest using AP rounds, but fielding Flak ammo can give you the same AA punch as before, while Flechette, Precision and Tracer rounds can give it some additional flexibility that might be attractive to some. The speed boost does increase BV, up to 188, but that’s hardly “expensive”.

To be honest, I don’t have much experience with the Minotaur 4; I’m not sure how useful Precision rounds are in an environment where Medium and Large Pulse Lasers have impressive range, nor how desirable Flechette rounds are against foes who largely focus on Battle Armored formations. The speed does give it a much easier time at plinking targets, though. As of now, the Spirits are(were) the only users of this ProtoMech, so it is(was) up to them to decide how worthwhile the Minotaur 4 really is.


This is the first article where there’s a Wars of Reaving variant for a design I’m looking at. Unfortunately, many Wars of Reaving ProtoMechs currently suffer from certain issues, and the Minotaur Z is not an exception. As of now, it is 500 kgs underweight, a pretty huge amount for a ProtoMech. Even so, I’ll focus on how it is now and edit my article accordingly if errata is ever issued.

The Minotaur Z was, without a doubt, a game changer. It emerged in 3072 with no fewer than three pieces of incredibly powerful experimental technology on it. The first, improved jump jets, gave it a speed of 3/5/5 for 500 fewer kilograms than what the Minotaur 3 or 4 had to invest for their own movement. The second, an Improved Medium Heavy Laser, gave it the lightest possible 10-point hit for a ProtoMech. It also didn’t suffer from the inaccuracy of the standard Heavy Laser, nor did its explosive nature really matter on a ProtoMech of its size. The final modification was the inclusion of Magnetic Clamps in the torso. The Minotaur Z could hitch rides on any ‘Mech it chose, and potentially move across the battlefield at much greater speeds than ever before. Armor was even slightly boosted; now at 37 points, with 6(head), 3(arms), 15(torso), 10(legs). The additional point in the head was great; it could now take an ER Medium hit without losing it.

BV is currently at 295 points, and in all honesty, this is probably the one of the best buys you can possibly get. The 3/5/5 movement makes it just as quick as the Roc in the air for less BV, while the iHML has a good BV/damage ratio because of all the sinks needed to dissipate its weapon heat. The MagClamps also come in cheap, so you end up getting a unit that's beefer than the Roc, with a greater punch, and with more strategic mobility - all for 41 less BV. The MagClamps let you use the Minotaur in an extremely aggressive manner, getting straight into the face of your opponents via quick moving ‘Mechs.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Water, fire, air and dirt, Magnet(ic Clamp)s, how do they work? Sorry, Juggalos, I’m gonna have to get a bit technical here. See, Magnetic Clamps lets a ‘Mech (but no other unit type) carry up to two ProtoMechs/one UltraHeavy Proto. The carrying ‘Mech suffers from the standard “carrying external cargo” rules, those being that:
  • A ‘Mech may carry up to 10 percent of its weight without suffering from any MP reductions.
  • A ‘Mech may carry up to 25 percent of its weight while losing 3 walking MP (or half walking MP, whichever is lower). Round down.
  • A ‘Mech may also carry from 26 to 100 percent of its weight, but has its walking MP halved. Round down.
  • Jumping is NOT allowed.
OmniMechs are the only machines that have a special variable come into play. Due to their "Omni" nature, they’re able to subtract three tons from the tonnage of any ProtoMech it carries for weight-calculation purposes. EG: A 9-ton Minotaur is calculated as weighing 6-tons when mounted on an OmniMech.

This is why 9-ton Protos, and the Minotaur Z, are a bit of a pain. The lightest standard 'Mech that can reliably carry one without a speed reduction is an 90-tonner, while a 40-tonner can carry one at a 3 MP price. To put things a bit in contrast, a Centaur (5 tons) could easily be carried by a 50-tonner, while any 'Mech out there could carry one for that basic MP reduction. A 60-ton Omni, though, could transport a single minotaur, while a 20-ton Omni could carry one for the speed reduction.

What could work well within those boundaries? Looking at secondline ‘Mechs, there's basically nothing. You’re looking at ground-based units that are too light (anything under 40 tons), get slowed down too much (7/11 or 6/9 movers) or are already too slow (anything else). Basically, the heavy nature of the Minotaur Z demands usage within the best Society formations - alongside OmniMechs. The Mad Dog is the lightest you can go for unrestrained movement, but its the Linebacker that looks the nicest. But basically, any of the Heavy Omnis out there work well - and if custom variants are allowed on your table, putting a Supercharger onto one of them would make them even better. Some lighter stuff does work as well - the Viper and Fenris are both functional, if inefficient at the task. The Phantom, though, would certainly be the best of the Mediums.

From TRO: Prototypes - Minotaur XP from XTRO: The Clans

We already know that the Horses salvaged multiple instances of Society ProtoMechs during the scientist uprising; their experimental Minotaur XP that came out in 3078 is just another example of this. Apparently the result of a crash program started in the Homeworlds, the Horses were forced to make certain sacrifices - although they aren’t necessarily bad ones. The first thing to get the axe was the improved jump jets; this saved on a lot of weight, some of which was put towards maximizing the armor to an incredible degree. 45 points are arrayed 6(head), 18(torso), 4(arms), 10(legs), 3(MG), which is basically as armored as it can get, so there’s no point overanalyzing it. The Society MagClamps and iHML were switched to dual iHSLs, giving it a larger punch at the cost of a much reduced range. Finally, an SRM-5 with 12 shots was placed into the Main Gun mount.

The Minotaur XP can bring up to 22 points of damage against a single target in one go. This is, quite literally, unmatched by any other ProtoMech save the two-hit wonder Sprite 3. The idea of an entire Point of them bringing their firepower to bear is a terrifying thought. The unfortunate side effect of this jaw-dropping damage potential is that the Minotaur XP has trouble ever getting into range to use its guns; iHSLs have abysmal range, and a 3/5 moving machine is hardly the best platform for them. This relegates the XP to only the densest defensive urban combat, where it will undoubtedly excel, or ambushes in very favorable terrain. 276 BV makes it cheaper than the Z, but at incredible cost in versatility.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

The production variant (the P2) would come out in 3080 with some quite significant changes. The first is the inclusion of Magnetic Clamps (looks like the Horses were finally able to reverse-engineer them by then), with the weight coming from a small reduction of the SRM-5 to an SRM-4 with 8 shots of ammo. This forces a certain rearranging of the firepower, with both iHSLs being put in the arms.

The P2 is in some ways better - and in some ways worse - than the XP. The MagClamps finally give it some mobility, but the slow speed still shoves it into a sort of “ultraheavy BA, mobile minefield” role. What really sucks is how both lasers are in the arms. The P2 forces you to choose between either firing the SRM-4 or the iHSLs. With the SRM having better to-hit numbers except at point-blank ranges, the iHSLs seem like a poor choice in most scenarios - unless the Minotaurs are somehow dropped off as part of a very tight encircling formation. I would have greatly preferred having something like an LRM-5 in the Main Gun mount instead (if we're looking at minimal changes to the design), but I think the biggest problem is the use of iHSLs on the Minotaur in the first place. BV is a touch cheaper at 267, which is still pretty affordable. It’s just a difficult ProtoMech to use.

Thankfully, there are a few additional options come 3080 for the Horses to use as Proto transports. The Dasher II, a terrible unit that every Clan is saddled with, works surprisingly well. The Balius is another option, even if I'm hesitant to bring a quad into potentially short range to drop off its payload.

I think that sums it up, folks. Oof! Talk about a lot of variants. But believe it or not, we've gone through all of 3059's ProtoMechs! Now we have two left for 3060, the Satyr and the Centaur, before we move on to attack the second-gen Protos that other Clans would design.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

MUL - Minotaur: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2186/minotaur-standard
MUL - Minotaur P2: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4643/minotaur-p2
Camospecs: http://camospecs.com/MiniList.asp?Action=Detail&ID=101
IWM: http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=4807
« Last Edit: 02 April 2015, 20:02:05 by GreekFire »
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Fallen_Raven

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #1 on: 05 January 2015, 03:21:05 »
The Minotaur is an impressive Proto, though there are two very different designs trends. The original model and its cutting edge decedents are close quarters muggers. On the other hand, the older variants serve as long range fire platforms that trade armor for range (and in one case speed). Either way, the Minotaur always rides an extreme.
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Fletch

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #2 on: 05 January 2015, 03:35:56 »
This article gets 5/5 fist pumps



The Minotaur 3 is a fun one to put on the table and watch people fall over when they realise it is not a 3/5.  Agree, you could forgo the jump jets and still have an impressive unit.

The P2 doesn't quite cut it, so a LRM variant is a good idea.  What could the iHSLs be easily replaced with?

GreekFire

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #3 on: 05 January 2015, 11:54:28 »
Oh yeah, I forgot to post in your thread! Very nice Protos, Fletch!!

I'll post my suggestions for improvements in another thread, since IIRC we're not supposed to do that here.
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Col.Hengist

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #4 on: 05 January 2015, 13:00:28 »
This is one of my favorite proto mechs. I haven't used any of the later ones...yet, but if I'm playing clan you'll always see them in my CBS force.
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #5 on: 05 January 2015, 19:02:42 »
Again, thanks for the article.  O0 O0 The LBX2 variant screams flak!!! all the time. It is like your cheesy cheap AAA afterthought. The original variant is very good, and the LRM, and the iHML one... great. The others are like an assault mech but more fragile, some smart thinking and they are done.
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #6 on: 05 January 2015, 19:09:01 »
I'd be interested in a Streak SRM version, for the short range crit seeking potential.  How many tubes with... say, 8 or 10 reloads could you fit on this frame with the 1's armor?
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #7 on: 05 January 2015, 21:54:23 »
Why am I less impressed, though? The Gorgon is streamlined, incredibly so. While the Gorgon a mechanical avatar of Clan efficiency, while the Minotaur invests a lot into its movement. A bit too much, in my eyes. And that brings up its cost. A lot. At 443 BV, it’s no longer cheap. It really suffers from the same limitations as the Hydra 3 - if you aren’t going to jump around at max speed, don’t invest in one. And if you are gonna jump, I’d suggest boosting the Minotaur 3's gunnery to get the most out of those 10 rounds of fire.

To me, the key to the Minotaur 3's utility isn't the range, but the minimum ranges, or complete lack thereof. I still remember the first time I ever encountered Mino-3s. Expecting a slow-moving PokéAssault and instead being beset by cavalry-fast buggers swarming among my forces that could plonk their missiles anywhere they wanted was a rude shock, to say the least. :o

While they have the range to perform fire support duties, in my experience Minotaur 3s are best used as cavalry brawlers. They can keep up with your heavy 'mechs, and fight at the same ranges they can as well. The ammo flexibility and clustering nature of the missile rack also makes them potent assets to use against conventional units as well.

Thanks for the article! It's given me a lot to think about, especially since I've got a spare pair of them I want to use as the core of a Society Trey.

Hmm...2 Minotaurs, 4 Hobgoblins, and a mighty Urbanmech IIC... ^-^
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #8 on: 05 January 2015, 22:18:49 »
Me likey! 

Good article too

The 3 works so well with heavy cav units.  Send a point of 3's along with a Summoner and Huntsman and enjoy the mayhem you cause running up to and then bouncing through enemy lines.


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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #9 on: 05 January 2015, 22:30:33 »
My first thought when I saw the 2?  Weirdo's going to love this. :)



The XP and P2 seem like they could be instantly improved by switching the iHSLs the ERSLs.  Doubles the range for minimal decrease in damage, and I think saves some weight too (I don't mess with protos much, but isn't there's some savings in heat sink weight?).  An SRM/LRM swap is a good idea too.
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #10 on: 06 January 2015, 00:53:11 »
Great review of the Mini-minotaur-taur (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVTfszppJl8) always loved the designs, as someone said above its a case of extremes and I must admit that I love the look of the XP over the classic.
« Last Edit: 06 January 2015, 00:55:10 by marauder648 »
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Maelwys

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #11 on: 06 January 2015, 05:16:58 »
This does make me wonder a few things....

I wonder if the Minotaur 2 was simply an attempt to overcome its slow speed by giving it a very long-range gun, or if maybe it was an attempt to expand the role of ProtoMechs. We have AA `Mechs, why not AA ProtoMechs?

I also wonder about the viability of Improved Jump Jets over standard Jump Jets and increased engine weight. On the Minotaur, it looks like its 500kg lighter to make give the design 3/5/5 than it is to make it 5/8/5. Is it worth it? Does it scale to all weights?

Its a shame about the P2 not being able to deliver all its firepower at the same time. With a design that's only 3/5, when you get in range of everything (especially with the iHSLs), you want to be able to fire everything instead of having to choose between your Main gun or the guns on your hands.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #12 on: 08 January 2015, 02:32:28 »
To me, the key to the Minotaur 3's utility isn't the range, but the minimum ranges, or complete lack thereof. I still remember the first time I ever encountered Mino-3s. Expecting a slow-moving PokéAssault and instead being beset by cavalry-fast buggers swarming among my forces that could plonk their missiles anywhere they wanted was a rude shock, to say the least. :o
Pulling out my dick-move card here, one point of Mino 3s and one point of Svartbetas.  Let one Minotaur spot while the others do their thing and draw fire, and meanwhile your Svarts went four score and seventy missiles ago...

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #13 on: 08 January 2015, 02:49:44 »
out of game, i think the 2 was to show that you can mount ballistics other than MG's on a proto.. the rules allowed it, but obviously in the time before proto-AC's, fitting one would be tricky.

in universe, i'd argue they wanted a sniper and AA platform.. a point of 5 Minotaur 2's gives better AA performance than a single Rifleman IIC 2 at 80% of the cost (and only 2/3rds the BV).. and it can provide a much better area defense since it's 5 guns in 5 spots, instead of 4 guns in one spot.


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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #14 on: 08 January 2015, 08:17:20 »
Thank you for the write up, Greekfire. 

I've not gotten to play with a lot of Protomechs, but Minotaur is one of few I've used.  The original version's  fire power with entire point of 5 of these things bring the pain is effect as long as you can get them into range.  Star's worth of them is devastating.

Does the Minotaur Z have the taint of other Society designs? It doesn't have the Nova CEWS that a lot of Society Mechs have making them cursed not show up again until tech is detainted.

Of the newer ones, I like Z and P2.  Though to be honest, I can't see other than pickup game these units suddenly being of use in regular campaign.
« Last Edit: 08 January 2015, 15:15:09 by Wrangler »
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #15 on: 08 January 2015, 13:04:02 »
The Minotaur Z is one I can see myself using with my Society stuff.  The 3/5/5 speed matches the some of the other super heavies they have and the firepower is respectable!

GreekFire

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #16 on: 08 January 2015, 22:34:25 »
I'd be interested in a Streak SRM version, for the short range crit seeking potential.  How many tubes with... say, 8 or 10 reloads could you fit on this frame with the 1's armor?

Taking a quick glance at things, the base Minotaur has 4500 kgs to spend on weaponry. That's more than enough for a SSRM-6 (3600 kgs w/10 shots of ammo) along with a swap to Improved Jump Jets (700 kgs) and four extra points of armor (three to place on the now-required main gun, one to put wherever).

The XP and P2 seem like they could be instantly improved by switching the iHSLs the ERSLs.  Doubles the range for minimal decrease in damage, and I think saves some weight too (I don't mess with protos much, but isn't there's some savings in heat sink weight?).  An SRM/LRM swap is a good idea too.

Oh, there's a ton of ways to improve the newer Minotaurs, and a lot of them come down to ditching the iHSLs. I'm betting new-toy syndrome plays a large role of why they found their way onto the Minotaur XP/P2. There's really only one advantage to the (i)HSL on a Proto: BV. It makes the Minotaurs crazy cheap for the damage they can put out, but damn are they hard to use. Those HSLs would be great on a quick-moving platform that has the tonnage to spare.

Does the Minotaur Z have the taint of other Society designs? It doesn't have the Nova CEWS that a lot of Society Mechs have making them cursed not show up again until tech is detainted.

Probably not. There's a lot of references in the Wars of Reaving to other Clans picking up and using new Society ProtoMechs. The Sprite and Hobgoblin remain in standard Homeworld Clan RATs even come 3085, but I'm somewhat doubtful that quad Protos are accepted in the "new" Clan society.

While we're on the subject, a quick Nova CEWS ProtoMech would be fantastic but most definitely not halal.
« Last Edit: 08 January 2015, 22:36:48 by GreekFire »
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Prince of Darkness

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #17 on: 08 January 2015, 23:20:38 »
Well all Boggarts have been destroyed, so I doubt you'll ever see similar quads again.

I was thinking of a Nova-carrier Protomech a few days ago, likely either a spotter or as a long-ranged supporter like the Sprite.
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #18 on: 09 January 2015, 01:24:05 »
Ok, this is a bit random, but just occurred to me, thinking about the versions with magclamps: can protos carry battle armor, by hook or by crook?
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #19 on: 09 January 2015, 04:22:26 »
Well all Boggarts have been destroyed, so I doubt you'll ever see similar quads again.

Do we actually know this to be the case? I don't recall seeing that specified anywhere in the text.
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #20 on: 09 January 2015, 08:17:24 »
Do we actually know this to be the case? I don't recall seeing that specified anywhere in the text.
Maybe not all destroyed, but according to the Wars of Reaving Supplemental, they're not in use.

Quote from: WoRS, Pg 18
ProtoMechs, considered a tactical weapon of choice by some and abhorred by others, remain a disputed issue. While all four Clan have unilaterally shunned the Boggart, most of the ProtoMech technology and designs that came from Society labs have been somewhat accepted.
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #21 on: 09 January 2015, 10:04:14 »
In the Homeworlds, sure. Do we know for certain that's true of the Inner Sphere Clans, though?
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Prince of Darkness

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #22 on: 09 January 2015, 11:06:15 »
In the Homeworlds, sure. Do we know for certain that's true of the Inner Sphere Clans, though?



'Sup?

The Horses and Ravens are the only ones to have protomechs- the Horses also have the bloodnames Johnston and Grimheald, though Johnston is on a limited basis.

EDIT: I've scoured my books for the RATs for the Ravens and Horses for protomechs, but I cannot find them. I CAN say however, that the Horses have and use Hobgoblins and Sprites in the 3100+ era, and that the Wors of Reaving and other books are full of mentions that the Horses were the only clan to continue research on Society technology that the Diamond Sharks brought when they fled to the Inner Sphere.
« Last Edit: 09 January 2015, 12:13:07 by Prince of Darkness »
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #23 on: 09 January 2015, 13:51:13 »
Pg 232 of FM:3145 has RATs for CHH and the Raven Alliance.
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Prince of Darkness

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #24 on: 09 January 2015, 15:00:53 »
Found it, thanks. The Procyon Quad shows up with in the middle of the 22-digit list and on two other spots- and two other spots are taken up by the Svartalfa. I'd wager that quads aren't all that uncommon-and neither is the fearlize that they have to use to pilot them. They also have Harpies! For some reason!
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #25 on: 09 January 2015, 15:22:41 »
Found it, thanks. The Procyon Quad shows up with in the middle of the 22-digit list and on two other spots- and two other spots are taken up by the Svartalfa. I'd wager that quads aren't all that uncommon-and neither is the fearlize that they have to use to pilot them. They also have Harpies! For some reason!
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #26 on: 09 January 2015, 15:27:13 »
Found it, thanks. The Procyon Quad shows up with in the middle of the 22-digit list and on two other spots- and two other spots are taken up by the Svartalfa. I'd wager that quads aren't all that uncommon-and neither is the fearlize that they have to use to pilot them. They also have Harpies! For some reason!

Horses are the number one fan of Harpies, for some reason. They field every variant of the damned thing.
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #27 on: 02 April 2015, 20:04:05 »
Updated the MagClamp rules - unfortunately I missed the errata the first time around. This changes things considerably, although all questions about it should be saved: an upcoming article (written by one of the best) will be covering them in greater detail.
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #28 on: 02 April 2015, 21:34:29 »
Feralize is a training shortcut, the Hell Horses just use extra training for them.

Lyran Battle Suit operators initially according to the fluff makes a bit of sense too

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Minotaurs of Every Flavor
« Reply #29 on: 02 April 2015, 22:18:04 »
In light of the errata, I'd suggest using Mag Clamp Minotaurs with the Hellbringer. The combination of long range guns in the arms and thin armor begs for some back up, and the Minotaur's hefty armor and close range weapons provide and excellent compliment. The speed might not be ideal for a fast drop off, but it still shaves a couple of turns off walking. And since the initial deployment has a Minotaur in close range makes back stabbing the Hellbringer a far less attractive proposition.
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