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Author Topic: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk  (Read 5376 times)

Trace Coburn

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Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« on: 11 April 2011, 02:12:36 »
Turk - 50t, TRO3055
Originally posted 8 Feb. 2006.

  All proposed fan-variants should be posted in the corresponding “FotW Workshop” thread.


  Perhaps the only war-machine of any significant repute to come out of Clan Burrock while it still existed as a distinct entity, if you believe its fluff the Turk is considered a fair attack ship, but most commanders wouldn’t put into an air-to-air conflict if they could avoid it.  I don’t know that I’d entirely agree with that assessment - Turks could be very handy against Inner Sphere opposition - but then, I’m not a genetically-engineered killing machine on a ‘Manifest Destiny!’ kick, now am I?  :P  (Well, for all that you know....  }:))  That said, I do like the Turk: it gives me the impression of a solid, steady machine quietly doing yeoman work without getting the recognition of flashier models, not much caring about being overshadowed so long as it gets the job done.  (Much the same as the Hawker Hurricane, which I always thought never quite got the press its record deserved, especially whenever there was a Spitfire around.... ::) )

  I do have to agree with one point of the fluff, though: the Turk isn’t quite all it could be in the manoeuvrability stakes.  In the era of Light and eXtra-Light fusion powerplants, you’d expect to see a 50-ton fighter turning/burning at 8/12 ... but the Turk musters only 7/11.  That’s good enough to keep up with the slightly larger Visigoth, of course, but were the Clans truly minded towards reducing waste, they would have used a common 300XLFE for both types.  That said, the Turk has the ‘full’ five tons of gas, yielding better endurance than most other Omnis, and the 250XLFE saves weight for other concerns.  Nine-point-five tons of ferro-aluminium armour is pretty close to the ‘20%-by-mass’ benchmark assessed by HM:A, and quite respectable: a 48/44/46 layout may be vulnerable to Clan medium lasers from all angles, which probably prompted the ‘shepherd them closely’ sentiment mentioned above, but against Spheroid foes, it is immune to ML TACs from any vector.  }:)  Twelve double heat-sinks are hard-wired into the spaceframe, leaving the Turk a very, very respectable twenty-four (24) tons of pod-space, nearly half of its all-up flyaway weight.  :o  Its maximum external load of ten tons slows it to a ‘mere’ 5/8, but considering that you can still pace most super-heavy fighters, that still leaves the Turk a great deal of utility as a light bomber, long-range escort, or possible fast-dash courier.

  Turk Prime mounts a simple pure-energy arsenal, and with Clan ordnance, you know that’s gonna get nasty.  #P  Backed by an additional four DHS, the Prime mounts an ER Large Laser and an ERPPC in each wing.  Though the heat forces you to choose either the particle-beams or the lasers - using both pairs of guns at once is a +22 overheat I can’t countenance for sustained engagements - the type has phenomenal power in a Strike or Strafe, Extreme-range reach in aerial combat, and staggering punch at Long range or closer - its PPCs allow it to crit even the notoriously tough Hydaspes:o  Considering that a Star of these packs no fewer than four heavy Capital bays - two of 15 points, two of 10 - I think we can safely call Turk Prime a very nice all-range, all-purpose bird for those who don’t like to spend money/resources on expendables like ammo.  ;)

  Turk A is also a utility player, though one with a markedly more diverse arsenal.  Its nose-mounted Gauss Rifle makes for an impressive opener, two tons of ammo make for a healthy endurance, and an ERLL offers a backup if it actually runs out; an MPL aft will cool the ardour of the tail-chasers :P; each wing holds an SRM-4 with a ton of ammo.  A little oversinked even if it doesn’t include added freezers - a full alpha-strike both ways is still -1 heat! - this config offers Extreme-range sniping power and increasing damage as the range-to-target falls without ever having to slack your rate-of-fire - unless (and until) your magazines are depleted.  Though lacking the Prime’s raw Strafing power, a Strike from a Turk Alpha can punch holes and seek crits with almost as much verve, and while it doesn’t have quite the same raw throw-weight for anti-shipping tasks as the Prime (1 Star of Turk A = 1 bay @ 15, 1 @ 10, 2 @ 6)), it can still make a mess of things quite handily.

  Turk Bravo is all about Medium-range attack.  Twin ER Mediums in the nose make for decent ‘going-home’ guns, but the heavy punch comes from the Ultra AC/10 in each wing, with one ton of ammo per gun; there’s neither free tonnage nor need for extra DHS.  Strikes me that the ammo-load’s a little light there, but in an alpha-baby intended for a simple “out - hammer a target - back” mission profile, it’s not too bad.  Not a fancy loadout, but it’s got a good clout to it nonetheless - a ten-bird Star generates a 14-Capital ERML bay and two 15-Capital UAC bays - and I can’t imagine too many ’Mechs would enjoy seeing it in their skies either.

  Turk Charlie is the obligatory missile-heavy/fire-support loadout, and it’s pretty good at what it does: the nose mounts an LRM-20 with two tons of ammo; each wing houses an ERLL and a Streak-6 with a ton of ammo; a single ERML guards the rear sector.  Now, using all of the long-range weaponry gets a tad warm - 2 ERLL + LRM-20 = 30 heat, with 24 sinked - but that aside, it’s more or less a reimagining of the Alpha: snipe and/or hammer ’em at long range, then crit-seek when you get close.  The lack of Artemis for the LRMs is about the only let-down, and I guess it was a choice between the Artemis module and a gun to guard your back in a knife-fight; nonetheless, given Clan attitudes it’s a curious choice to go with a defensive weapon mount rather than increasing offensive throw-weight.

  ’55U showed us a string of Clan Delta configurations that usually showcased either Heavy Lasers or Advanced Tactical Missiles, and in the Turk it’s the latter.  A nose-mounted ERLL is a pretty good place to start, providing wicked all-range punch, but after that things go... well, not outright wrong, but certainly less right than they could.  An ATM-12 is socketed into each wing, with three tons of ammo per launcher - just enough for five centreline salvos of each type of warhead.  As I noted during the 2006 run, I’ve never really been a fan of ATMs on Omnis of any stripe, since the system has always felt like a ‘jack of all trades, master of none’ (particularly when you’re talking about the smaller sizes); Omnis can change between LRM and SRM racks in the space of an hour or so, so why not use those on the front-line Omnis and refit second-line machines with the ATMs, since they’re generally the platforms that need the boost in flexibility?  But then, the Clans wouldn’t want my advice, much less when I offer it free and they think they’d get what they paid for.  ::)  Certainly the amount of damage HE ATMs can do is hard to argue with, nor is the reach of ER rounds, and being able to switch between the three munitions mid-fight is a cute trick....  :-\  Maybe if the Turk-Delta had a little more ammo, so it could load more of one warhead type to customise its ability to fight in a favoured set of circumstances, I might like it more, but as it is, the ‘bare minimum’ ammo-load leaves me less than completely enthused.  :-\

  Operating Turk units?  Use it much like a Visigoth - or better yet, in conjunction with a few.  The two types can keep up with each other, but the Visigoths will be regarded as the more pressing threat, allowing the Turks to do their damage ‘by stealth’.  Feel free to hold the other guy’s attention with heavier assets while you slip Turks around his flanks into his vulnerable arcs, while you’re at it; Turks have enough thrust and clout to make excellent heavy-fighter killers.  Y’know, the usual basic tactical stuff.

  Gunning for Turks?  Send in something as fast or faster (waves to the Visigoths again!), preferably while laying down a good base of fire from supporting fire-support platforms.  For my own mind, I’d be interested to see how these fare against Daggers, which match their speed and offset some of their firepower with preposterous degrees of armour protection, though the Cluster Damage rules mean you might want to reach for the A Configuration’s twin Larges, not the Prime’s RAC.  Any of the Clan interceptors would also likely do well, and the modernised SYD-Z4 Seydlitz could likely chew nice pieces off of ’em.  ;)


  [VARIANT PROPOSAL(S) REDACTED] All proposed fan-variants - including my own - belong in the corresponding “FotW Workshop” thread: http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,4416.0.html


  Be advised: the attached .txt transcript(s) of previous run(s) of this thread may contain numerous reader-proposals for variants.  I’ll try to change those out for ‘sanitised’ versions of those threads when I can, but I can’t promise it’ll be soon - that’s a lot of ground to cover.  ;)

Neufeld

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #1 on: 11 April 2011, 03:04:59 »
The Turk is like the Defiance, a good design damned by better alternatives. In this case, the Visigoth.

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Moonsword

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #2 on: 11 April 2011, 09:27:50 »
The Turk is like the Defiance, a good design damned by better alternatives. In this case, the Visigoth.

More or less, although the Defiance's problems have less to do with its own failings.  It just doesn't stand out much by being a very solid 6/9 medium dogfighter with the Dagger on one side, the Eisensturm on the other, and going neck-and-neck with the Troika.  The Turk's armor is a larger problem in an environment that obliges you to deal with Clantech.

On the C I would note that the choice may also have something to do with the fact that they'd need to mount three Artemis IV modules.  Whether that's a rules change or not (I seem to recall Herb's statement that it was a common misinterpretation, not an actual error in the rules themselves) is something I'm not going to argue over.  That's certainly how it is now.

A. Lurker

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #3 on: 11 April 2011, 10:27:39 »
On the C I would note that the choice may also have something to do with the fact that they'd need to mount three Artemis IV modules.  Whether that's a rules change or not (I seem to recall Herb's statement that it was a common misinterpretation, not an actual error in the rules themselves) is something I'm not going to argue over.  That's certainly how it is now.

Wait, three? *counts* One LRM 20 and two Streak-6 racks. That's one Artemis IV since Streak launchers explicitly don't work with the system and don't count towards its "one FCS per eligible launcher" requirements either (TechManual page 207).

Has that been errataed while I wasn't looking?

(Now, if we were talking standard SRM launchers, that'd be different. Of course, that would also give the Turk C three tons back to play with compared to Streaks, and so installing Artemis IV on all launchers would be no problem either.)

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #4 on: 11 April 2011, 12:24:40 »
There's not any errata.  I misread the launcher type as regular SRM 6s and was posting in a hurry.

A. Lurker

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #5 on: 11 April 2011, 12:35:07 »
There's not any errata.  I misread the launcher type as regular SRM 6s and was posting in a hurry.

Okay, that's kind of what I figured might have happened. Just making sure. :)

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #6 on: 11 April 2011, 15:29:34 »
I am curious about the props the Prime often gets. Okay, twin PPCs is scary, but not excessive by any means. The wing mounts mean that fire is limited, even if half the tonnage of weapons wasn't wasted due to heat. To put it in perspective, a Dagger will match it at useful combat ranges, though it will lack the critting power.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #7 on: 11 April 2011, 16:03:06 »
It makes Really Scary Pew-Pew Noises!  More seriously, my guess is that it has to do with the fact that a single wing mount is capable of throwing two very large clusters downrange.  The overall damage isn't that impressive but the clusters force fighters to take notice.  Definitely not terribly efficient, though.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #8 on: 17 December 2011, 02:09:30 »
And now, int the E model, we have … ?
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #9 on: 17 December 2011, 03:09:47 »
A fighter that's paranoid about Plasma weapons while also undergoing aversion therapy to confront its paranoia.

How many fighters can alpha fore and aft for -14 heat?

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #10 on: 17 December 2011, 04:18:58 »
The E model is odd, and the first of the new ones I really dislike. What are they trying to do with it? If it is supposed to be an anti-infantry striker, then why spend a lot of weight on a Gauss Rifle as backup? Or if it is supposed to be used against ASFs, why waste tonnage on MG arrays instead of lasers?

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #11 on: 17 December 2011, 05:23:25 »
Dont machine guns get to destroy incoming missiles in aerospace combat? Those arrays make it a good Warship escort whil the Gauss+plasma allows it to sting and up the heat on opposing attack birds.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #12 on: 17 December 2011, 05:50:19 »
In this case I'd take advantage of that heat dissipation and go with a UAC20 instead of the Gauss.  Geez, -14 on an ALPHA?

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #13 on: 18 December 2011, 10:49:47 »
In this case I'd take advantage of that heat dissipation and go with a UAC20 instead of the Gauss.  Geez, -14 on an ALPHA?

Though a Gauss Rifle is better for fighter-to-fighter engagements, given its range and much better ammo endurance.  And with an ECM suite in back, I'd say this Turk was intended to operate as part of a squadron as well.  Use the Gauss to defend itself (it works for the Royal Hammerhead) and the plasma cannon and ECM it keep enemy fighters from stopping the squadron's anti-shipping strike.  Or am I overthinking? :D
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #14 on: 18 December 2011, 12:18:26 »
Yes you are, because with those HMG arrays it wont do any good in antishipping with better choices available.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #15 on: 18 December 2011, 13:19:19 »
Actually, in Strat Ops squadron rules the Turk E can be very helpful in anti-shipping strikes. The huge heat reserve helps the remainder of the squadron due to the peculiarities of how heat is tracked for squadrons, allowing heat inefficient designs to use more of their armament.

For example, the Kirghiz B 's 26 DHS are incapable of handling the entire heat load of 3 ERPPCs and 5 LRM20s that form the majority of its forward firepower, but if a Turk E only used its Gauss Rifle & HMGs, under the squadron rules it could "lend" its 11.5 unused DHS to the Kirghiz B to enable it to fire all 8 weapons.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #16 on: 18 December 2011, 13:40:46 »
That's something i havent encountered, as i usually play TW/Tac Ops rules. Wow...that means this rule can be really abused. from what you're saying there.

sillybrit

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #17 on: 18 December 2011, 16:34:00 »
Yeah, it's one of the wackier rules, but it makes things a lot simpler for game play, which is the whole point of the squadron rules.

The same effect could be sort of obtained by effectively merging the two designs into one common design: using a mass halfway between the two, using the lower speed, dividing the weapons as equally as possible, making sure the design is heat balance, etc.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #18 on: 18 December 2011, 20:31:00 »
That's something i havent encountered, as i usually play TW/Tac Ops rules. Wow...that means this rule can be really abused. from what you're saying there.
Does the squadron gain enough firepower from the extra HS to compensate for the loss of firepower from the missing Kirghiz? Its not easily abused. There is a fair bit of maths there.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #056 (repost) - Turk
« Reply #19 on: 19 December 2011, 08:06:42 »
Also, doesn't the squadron slow down to Kirghiz speed? That makes the Turk waste even more tons on engine. It's still an interesting point, though, and you could do the same sort of thing with stuff closer to its thrust.

 

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