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Author Topic: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)  (Read 6278 times)

GreekFire

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ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« on: 18 February 2015, 13:17:20 »
From TRO:3075

The destruction of Clan Smoke Jaguars lead to the quick dissemination of ProtoMech technology. Certain Toumans were unsurprisingly quick to adapt - the Cloud Cobras and Blood Spirits, for example, both badly needed a surge of new units to bolster up their ground forces. Unexpectedly, though, the Coyotes leaped onto the technology, taking only three years before producing their first unique design. Outside observers interpreted this move as being a desperate Coyote gambit to reclaim their former “innovator” title. It wouldn’t be until the Society uprising that this doctrinal shift would be fully understood as having been influenced by key scientist cabal members.

The Procyon would initially be deployed as a part of both Alpha and Epsilon Galaxies. This, if anything, proves how dedicated the Coyote Khans were towards making the ProtoMech work for their Clan (and in extension, the Society). Khan Sifas Kufahl lead Alpha personally - alongside the Coyote Loremaster - while saKhan Raven Clearwater lead Epsilon. They were taking matters into their own hands to gain reliable, firsthand accounts of the effectiveness of the ProtoMech.

Brace yourselves, this ProtoMech has *a lot* of variants.

Code: [Select]
PROCYON
INTRO: 3063
FACTIONS: Blood Spirits, Coyotes, Hell's Horses
WEAPONS: 2 ER Small Lasers

         ARMOR                 INTERNAL   
          (2)                    (1)      Arms -> Cored: 16 pts
          / \                    / \      Legs -> Cored: 22 pts
      (2 / 8 \ 2)            (1 / 5 \ 1)  Torso -> Cored: 13 pts
         | | |                  | | |     Legs -> Destroyed: 9 pts
        (  6  )                (  3  )

Coyote players, there’s one thing I have to tell you from the get-go: the Procyon is a fine example of inefficiency. The design, weighing 5 tons, could have easily used a slightly more powerful engine to move at increased speeds - all for the same weight costs. A 6/9 movement profile would have been very welcome on this unit, *especially* since this additional speed would have come at no additional BV.

Ignoring this, the Procyon excels at its given task. Supposedly made to support both Elemental and heavy BattleMech formations, its dual ER Small Lasers lets it do both well. These give Battle Armored troops some holes to exploit against lighter troops (eg: other BA points, lighter vehicles, etc), while providing critseeking/sandblasting for heavy holepunching ‘Mechs. That the Procyon was typically fielded in homogenous Points was somewhat advantageous; 10 ER Small Lasers would give your force a heavy amount of firepower one way or another. The inherent nature of the ProtoMech also lets the Procyon encircle and entrap targets to keep slower allied BA and ‘Mechs within shooting range.

Its 5/8 movement lets it easily keep up with the heavy cavalry units that absolutely infest Clan space. This makes it very Omni friendly; Timber Wolves, Hellbringers, Ebon Jaguars, Mad Dogs, the list goes on. The same speed profile makes it a bit harder to fit into secondline formations; they’ll either run faster than the heavy ‘Mechs they are to support (not necessarily a bad thing, if you plan for it) or they’ll be alongside weaker mediums. I really feel like the ‘Yotes wanted to use the Procyon aggressively as part of their Frontline Touman.

The Procyon will also typically be a higher-priority target than its compatriots. Forced to close in order to use its weapons effectively, they should allow your heavier ‘Mechs to stand and deliver more often. Even Elementals will benefit from a larger, easier-hit target operating at the same ranges as them. This can be both a blessing and a curse; at 5 tons, the Procyon doesn’t yet have the sturdier chassis or higher frenzy damage of Protos 6-tons and up, and should be treated carefully. This is especially true due to the “glass cannon” nature of the Procyon - its armor is not especially high, and it will crumble under any focused attention.

178 BV is surprisingly cheap for what you can get out of it. You can get two 3-gunnery Procyons at roughly the same cost as a single Elemental point. Things match up pretty decently: those Procyons will have a bit more of a punch, while each Procyon has (theoretically) the same amount of armor as two Elementals. They complement each other well.


Code: [Select]
PROCYON 2
INTRO: 3064
FACTIONS: Coyotes, Hell's Horses
WEAPONS: 2 LRM-4s (6 shots total)

         ARMOR                 INTERNAL   
          (4)                    (1)      Arms -> Cored: 18 pts
          / \                    / \      Legs -> Cored: 24 pts
      (2 / 10 \ 2)            (1 / 5 \ 1) Torso -> Cored: 15 pts
         | | |                  | | |     Legs -> Destroyed: 9 pts
        (  6  )                (  3  )

The first variant took barely a year to appear - and changed the role of the Procyon considerably. This comes as no surprise, seeing how dependent the Coyotes were on the chassis, but this variant is a definite failure. Armor was maxed out, a definite pro, while both guns were shifted from the arms over to the torso. This change suggests that the standard model was deemed too fragile for what the Coyotes were looking for - somewhat unsurprising considering their fascination towards assault ‘Mechs.

Their goal with this variant was very obviously fire support. Made to provide covering fire for standard Procyon (and presumably Elemental) formations, the Procyon 2 has no real durability on the field. The anemic ammo reserves prevent the Procyon 2 from shooting except in the best of situations, and you can just forget about using any sort of alternate munition for them. If fielded in a full point you can stagger-fire from one Proto to another, artificially extending the ammo reserves out to 15 turns. That does mean that you’re essentially paying 1175 BV for an LRM-8, a horrific waste of BV and material. 235 BV is and always will be too expensive for what the Procyon 2 offers. Just forget about it, whether you’re playing a BV or a fluff game.

Both of these initial Procyon variants were largely tested on Babylon. I can’t imagine that they did well. Babylon is a planet with a horrific 1.5Gs, which would slow both of these Procyons down to a sluggish 3/5. Of course, everything else would be slowed down as well, but I’d expect the Procyons to die in swarms before getting within range of their ER Small Lasers. Perhaps this is why the Procyon 2 was first created: as a way to provide proper fire support and range to the newborn Coyote ProtoMech forces.

Even with these limitations, the Coyotes would accept and use both models for 4-5 years without any new variants appearing. Clearly they were satisfied with what they had - or so it seemed. The Society wasn’t finished with the Procyon yet.


Code: [Select]
PROCYON 3
INTRO: 3068
FACTIONS: Coyotes, Hell's Horses, The Society
WEAPONS: Heavy Small Laser, LRM-3 (6 shots)

         ARMOR                 INTERNAL   
          (2)                    (1)      Arms -> Cored: 16 pts
          / \                    / \      Legs -> Cored: 22 pts
      (2 / 8 \ 2)            (1 / 5 \ 1)  Torso -> Cored: 13 pts
         | | |                  | | |     Legs -> Destroyed: 9 pts
        (  6  )                (  3  )

3068 marked the coming of the Procyon 3. This variant attempted to combine the strengths of the Procyon and Procyon 2, but unfortunately mostly hit upon their weaknesses. The arm-mounted Heavy Small Laser gives the ProtoMech more of a close-ranged punch but at a hefty cost in range and weight. This can largely be considered a back-up gun for the torso-mounted LRM-3, which gives the Procyon 3 the range that it needs.

At first glance the 6 rounds for the LRM-3 really isn’t that bad; it’s actually a near perfect amount of ammo for the gun (in my opinion). The problem is how it has to rely on it on any turn it cannot get its Heavy Small Laser into range. And that’ll be happening all the time. It would have worked so much better with the old ER Small, but alas, things were not to be. Even its armor is the same as the standard Procyon, so no gains were made there. There’s not much more to say - the Procyon 3 feels like a variant made from compromise, but ultimately, not very good ones.

163 BV makes the Procyon 3 the cheapest of them all - thanks, HSL! The use you get out of it fully depends on how reliably you’ll be able to bring that gun into play, although for 6 turns you’ll have an OK quick fire support platform to fall back on. It might be good to scatter throughout a Star of standard Procyons; a ratio of 3(standards)/2(P-3) could work well enough without going all-out in one direction or another.


Code: [Select]
PROCYON 4
INTRO: 3068
FACTIONS: Coyotes
WEAPONS: Machine Gun (20 shots), Streak SRM-3 (5 shots)

         ARMOR                 INTERNAL   
          (2)                    (1)      Arms -> Cored: 16 pts
          / \                    / \      Legs -> Cored: 22 pts
      (2 / 8 \ 2)            (1 / 5 \ 1)  Torso -> Cored: 13 pts
         | | |                  | | |     Legs -> Destroyed: 9 pts
        (  6  )                (  3  )

The 4 is much more focused than the three that came out before it. Following the same sort of layout as the Procyon 3, the arm-mounted Machine Gun has a healthy 20 shots while the torso-mounted SSRM-3 has 5 shots for it. The efficiency of the SSRM makes the lower ammo count passable in my eyes, while the Machine Gun will be able to fire on any number, no matter the number.

This version of the Procyon is, without a doubt, a blight for conventional forces. The SSRM-3 is very good against vehicles and for critseeking, while the machine gun has its obvious strengths against infantry. It filled a hole in the Coyote ProtoMech roster that was as of then unfilled, giving them a few more options than they had before. The Procyon 4 can (up to a certain point) replace Elemental Stars and offer their own brand of accurate and longer-ranged missile fire. Working alongside the standard Procyon is a good deal for the Procyon 4, although it can also function well with the Procyon 3. Combining the three works as well, doubling down on whatever is most needed at the time.

BV here jumps up to 182; not too bad for something carrying Streaks. It's mostly due to the standard speed, meager back-up weaponry, and unimpressive armor bringing cost down. That’s not a bad thing, though - the Procyon 4 is probably one of the better ways to bring ProtoStreaks to the table.


Code: [Select]
PROCYON 5
INTRO: 3070
FACTIONS: Coyotes
WEAPONS: ER Small Laser, SRM-2 (5 shots)

         ARMOR                 INTERNAL   
          (3)                    (1)      Arms -> Cored: 18 pts
          / \                    / \      Legs -> Cored: 24 pts
      (2 / 10 \ 2)            (1 / 5 \ 1) Torso -> Cored: 15 pts
         | | |                  | | |     Legs -> Destroyed: 9 pts
        (  6  )                (  3  )

The last “normal” variant, the Procyon 5 is a nice model. One can’t help but wonder if this was an example of a misunderstood or misidentified unit à la Pariah/Septicemia. It’s a very good take on the Procyon - jump jets give it some added mobility for the first time, and the ER Small Laser makes a booming return alongside the SRM-2 with 5 shots of ammo. This plays like a less extreme Procyon 3; shoot the SRM-2 when out of ER Small range (or alongside it, if you can), and shoot the ER Small for all other occasions. If there's one ProtoMech that screams superelemental, this would be it. Twin SRM tubes? Back up laser? Jump jets?

The added armor is quite nice as well. Things are made just tough enough to last through a few important threshold checks, so I would have put the Procyon 5 forward as the new trooper Proto for the Coyotes (had things not taken a turn towards the worse for them). It works just as well as a teammate as before, but now has an extra bit of durability and flexibility to make it truly interesting. BV is a bit higher, but that’s the price you have to pay for jump jets.


Code: [Select]
PROCYON Z
INTRO: 3072
FACTIONS: The Society
WEAPONS: ER Small Laser, SRM-1 (10 shots)

         ARMOR                 INTERNAL   
          (3)                    (1)      Arms -> Cored: 16 pts
          / \                    / \      Legs -> Cored: 22 pts
      (2 / 8 \ 2)            (1 / 5 \ 1)  Torso -> Cored: 13 pts
         | | |                  | | |     Legs -> Destroyed: 9 pts
        (  6  )                (  3  )

Now what I said before about the possibly misidentified nature of the Procyon 5 is entirely due to the existence of the Procyon Z. This is everything the standard Procyon should have been. It’s easily the best of the entire series in my eyes (a bold claim, I know). The basic set-up of the thing remains extremely similar to the Procyon 5, but with a few important changes. The SRM-2 is brought down to an SRM-1 (now with 10 shots), which honestly comes as a good thing in my eyes. SRM-1s are very useful guns on ProtoMechs, and the added ammo is fantastic if you want to use alternate munitions. Armor is also slightly lower, bringing the center torso back down to traditional levels. This is unfortunate, but makes space for the magclamps that got added on.

These magclamps, though, they aren’t as useful as they could have been. The Procyon Z is the only model that takes full advantage of the chassis and *finally* brings its speed up to 6/9/6, giving it unprecedented mobility. This is excellent news when put in context with the Society uprising; in situations where the ProtoMech would have to work with Secondline troops, it would now be able to keep up with the IIC trinity (the Griffin IIC, Shadow Hawk IIC, Hellhound - amongst others).

Through wanton use of black magic and civilian sacrifices, the Procyon Z manages to come in at 180 BV - cheaper than the Procyon 5 that came before it. Remember, the speed upgrade comes entirely free, while the magclamps cost one BV (lol); at that point we’re looking at BV reductions from the SRM-2 to SRM-1 and the two points of lost armor. And all of that means that the Procyon Z costs a grand spanking 2 BV more than the original model, making a straight swap more than easy for any Coyote players wanting to give something a bit more Scientist-flavored a try.

Since it shares the same weight as the Centaur Z, transportation options remain the same  - this is cool, and very useful. Anything goes - the Cephalus, the Viper, the Dasher, etc. etc. They'll be able to drop your Procyon Zs into knife-fighting range, and your targets will find themselves unable to disengage because of the Procyon Z's speed. Beautiful.

Code: [Select]
PROCYON QUAD
INTRO: 3081
FACTIONS: Hell's Horses
WEAPONS: AP Gauss Rifle (x2) (32 shots total), SRM-2 (5 shots)

         ARMOR                 INTERNAL   
          (4)                    (2)     
          / \                    / \      Legs -> Cored: 40 pts
         / 12 \                 / 6 \     Torso -> Cored: 18 pts
         | | |                  | | |     Legs -> Destroyed: 22 pts
        (  14  )               (  8  )

Currently, the last variant of the Procyon is a Hell’s Horses take on the affair - uninspiring called the “Procyon Quad”. Finally bringing Quad ProtoMechs to the Inner Sphere, the P-Q fulfills the hopes of the original Procyon designers by turning it into a quadruped. There are some things to note here. Firstly, the Procyon-Q comes in at 6 tons, vastly reinforcing its chassis and increasing the amount of frenzy damage it can put out. Speed is also kept at 6/9, taking advantage of the Quad chassis to keep weight costs low.

The end result is a ProtoMech that vastly differs in role when compared to the standard model. The AP Gauss Rifles give it improved range and AI ability, but at the cost of the holepunching that made the Procyon useful in supporting Battle Armor. The SRM-2 gives it even more damage output at the same ranges, so it’d be accurate to say that the P-Q effectively goes all-in towards supporting heavier forces.

The range of its weapons, combined with its speed, make it significantly dangerous to any infantry units of all kinds. As the TRO suggests, it also works quite well against vehicles. The only true downside of the P-Q is how all of its weapons are mounted in the torso; the P-Q does not fare well at point-blank ranges, where its enemies will be able to flank it to take advantage of its blind spots. They also lack the ability to torso twist, so I’d highly suggest using them at medium or long ranges.

One thing to pay attention to is how similar the Procyon (Quad) is to two other Horse ProtoMechs: the Orc and the Centaur. The P-Q is a definite improvement over the Orc 1/3/4, with firepower, durability, and speed all being matched or surpassed. I would not be surprised if the Horses were slowly phasing out their Orcs with P-Qs; the only place where the Orcs are better is at brawling ranges, where the Orc has more flexibility with its angles of engagement. The Centaur is also outclassed in many ways, only keeping a slight advantage in range (for the standard) or holepunching (for the 2/3). With Objectives: The Clans stating that the Horses consider the Centaur to be obsolete, the P-Q might be a modern replacement for it as well. The P-Q is a bit pricier than the older Procyons (or the Orc/Centaur) at 237 BV, but it’s not a bad deal in the slightest.


To sum things up, I wouldn't tout the Procyon as the best ProtoMech out there. Certain variants do their job well, but most of them have flaws (large or small) that make them less interesting than their competitors. The Procyon (Quad), however, is a dramatic improvement over the older generations of ProtoMechs, and truly deserves to belong in the fourth generation of ProtoMech designs. If you're a Horse or a Coyote, I'd at least suggest giving them a role. Maybe they'll work out for you!


MASTERUNITLIST: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=procyon
IRON WIND METALS (Procyon): http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=9005
IRON WIND METALS (Procyon Quad): http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8861
« Last Edit: 02 April 2015, 20:14:54 by GreekFire »
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Dragon Cat

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #1 on: 18 February 2015, 13:42:26 »
The quad variant is one of my fav Protos its looks and capabilities are awesome the picture in the TRO of them walking over civilian cars looking for targets is very cool

The biped model not so much

Nice article

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #2 on: 18 February 2015, 13:46:08 »
it's interesting to look at Coyote production when the Procyon was created.  By that point they'd switched over all their mech production lines to building the Savage Coyote, Canis, and Rabid Coyote (maybe some hidden Septicemia lines coming online as well?).  The Rabid Coyote pilots were balking at being assigned as support for the bigger, slower mechs.  The Procyon provides an answer to that dilemma.  Early protomechwarriors were just happy to get to be warriors, and the Procyon is well-suited to support the Savage Coyote and Canis.  The assault mechs take out the big targets, the Procyons sweep up the detritus.  The fact that it's the exact same movement profile as the Rabid Coyote makes me think that was the plan for it all along, that it was purposefully designed to do the job the mechwarriors didn't want.

Oh, and by the way; the Procyon Quad looks totally badass.  I don't think there's a better-looking proto out there.
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #3 on: 18 February 2015, 14:13:32 »
I pointed out the speed difference during play testing.  The early notes had it at 6/9, which let it keep up with the numerous Stormcrows that appear in the Coyote ranks.  I tried it a few times and it was a neat little blend of speed and short range firepower.  It changed in the final drafts and I pointed it out, but no reason was ever really given (this happens in play testing sometimes as the authors/writers/creators have their reasons and there isn't always a reason to justify to me)  So it stuck that way.

Good little trooper that does it's job well and complements the other Coyote choices (Satyr and Roc)

GreekFire

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #4 on: 18 February 2015, 15:25:10 »
it's interesting to look at Coyote production when the Procyon was created.  By that point they'd switched over all their mech production lines to building the Savage Coyote, Canis, and Rabid Coyote (maybe some hidden Septicemia lines coming online as well?)...the Procyon is well-suited to support the Savage Coyote and Canis.  The assault mechs take out the big targets, the Procyons sweep up the detritus.

Interesting and very good points here. In my limited testing, the Procyon worked great with both the Savage Coyote and the Canis. Things went exactly as you said - the Protos finished off highly damaged targets while the assault 'Mechs concentrated their heavier firepower elsewhere.

Quote
The Rabid Coyote pilots were balking at being assigned as support for the bigger, slower mechs.  The Procyon provides an answer to that dilemma...The fact that it's the exact same movement profile as the Rabid Coyote makes me think that was the plan for it all along, that it was purposefully designed to do the job the mechwarriors didn't want.

The comparison with the Rabid Coyote also bears some mentioning. The Rabid and the Procyon are extremely similar - like you noted, their speed profiles are identical, but they also work by dishing out as many 5-point hits as possible. Of course, a single Rabid Coyote outperforms a Point of Procyons, but once you start looking at tonnage (11 Procyons for one Rabid Coyote), cost (close to 9 Procyons for one Rabid) or BV (11 Procyons for a Rabid) the Procyon starts looking more appealing for point-blank combat. And that's where the Rabid Coyote should mostly be, anyway - it wants to be able to land those HE ATM rounds whenever possible.

Personally, I'd go for the Procyons in most (but not all) situations. Their range might be shorter, but their individual threat profiles are lower and you have a lot more flexibility in choosing targets and using tactical maneuvers.

The only issue here is the introduction date of the Rabid Coyote. The Procyon first came out in 3063, while the Rabid Coyote emerged in 3066.  There's a strong chance that - although unintuitive - the Procyons were deployed throughout Frontline clusters while the Rabid Coyote was mostly concentrated in Secondline ones.
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #5 on: 18 February 2015, 15:27:50 »
I pointed out the speed difference during play testing.  The early notes had it at 6/9, which let it keep up with the numerous Stormcrows that appear in the Coyote ranks.  I tried it a few times and it was a neat little blend of speed and short range firepower.  It changed in the final drafts and I pointed it out, but no reason was ever really given (this happens in play testing sometimes as the authors/writers/creators have their reasons and there isn't always a reason to justify to me)  So it stuck that way.

Good little trooper that does it's job well and complements the other Coyote choices (Satyr and Roc)

Ahh, that's intriguing. I know that the first version of the Procyon in Combat Equipment has it listed at 5/8, with TRO:3075 bringing it up to 6/9 before errata knocked it back down to 5/8. The lower speed was undoubtedly intentional, although only TPTB know why. Another hint at Society shenanigans?

Did you get to test out any other ProtoMechs?
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #6 on: 18 February 2015, 19:53:44 »
I saw all of the Combat Equipment protos before the book was published, though as a Coyote player the Procyon stood out the most and about all I remember.  The 6/9 vs 5/8 was before CE was published.  I'm not sure why it came out as 6/9 in 3075 though.  Sometimes it's to have a unit at X speed at X weight, or it ties into a factions combat doctrines (5/8 is "good enough" for Coyotes) or who knows.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #7 on: 18 February 2015, 23:37:15 »
Interesting and very good points here. In my limited testing, the Procyon worked great with both the Savage Coyote and the Canis. Things went exactly as you said - the Protos finished off highly damaged targets while the assault 'Mechs concentrated their heavier firepower elsewhere.

The comparison with the Rabid Coyote also bears some mentioning. The Rabid and the Procyon are extremely similar - like you noted, their speed profiles are identical, but they also work by dishing out as many 5-point hits as possible. Of course, a single Rabid Coyote outperforms a Point of Procyons, but once you start looking at tonnage (11 Procyons for one Rabid Coyote), cost (close to 9 Procyons for one Rabid) or BV (11 Procyons for a Rabid) the Procyon starts looking more appealing for point-blank combat. And that's where the Rabid Coyote should mostly be, anyway - it wants to be able to land those HE ATM rounds whenever possible.

Personally, I'd go for the Procyons in most (but not all) situations. Their range might be shorter, but their individual threat profiles are lower and you have a lot more flexibility in choosing targets and using tactical maneuvers.

The only issue here is the introduction date of the Rabid Coyote. The Procyon first came out in 3063, while the Rabid Coyote emerged in 3066.  There's a strong chance that - although unintuitive - the Procyons were deployed throughout Frontline clusters while the Rabid Coyote was mostly concentrated in Secondline ones.
Drat, I was thinking the Rabid came first, probably because it was in '67 and the Procyon wasn't in a TRO until '75.  Of course, it actually debuted in Combat Equipment.
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Fallen_Raven

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #8 on: 19 February 2015, 00:54:45 »
I've always enjoyed the Procyon. It serves well padding out my otherwise outnumbered Hell's Horses stars.

PROCYON 2
Just forget about it, whether you’re playing a BV or a fluff game.

They work well as part of an ambush/raiding force where you only need a few turns. Those 40 LRMs can make a big difference for a short span of time, and you can break LoS behind any Level 1 hill to use indirect fire. You just have to make sure that you can turn the tide in 3 turns or your in trouble. One of those all or nothing tactic that the Clans love.


PROCYON QUAD

The unit that tipped me firmly into the Proto lovers camp. There's just something about a pack of giant robot dogs rushing 'mechs while firing missiles and Gauss machineguns that inspires me. The fact that they're good at tearing into conventional forces just makes it better.  The speed is enough that you can avoid some incoming fire, and the range increase over the ER lasers lets you stay out of retaliation range of lethal kicks.

As for the quad chassis limiting fire arcs, I've found it best to rush them at a target that's already moved then fall back the next turn. This tactic not only allows you to swing hard one turn, but can goad your opponent into chasing Protos that you were never planning on attacking with for a turn. Its a high mobility tactic that doesn't mesh well with grinding fights or focused assaults, and things can go south quickly if you get cornered.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #9 on: 19 February 2015, 01:14:46 »
when i first learned of the Procyon i was of two minds. the Coyote player in me was grinning ear to ear.
the analytical part of me was thinking "why 2 ER smalls, instead of one ER medium"? (i never noticed the speed thing)
i mean, an ER medium has better range, with similar firepower.  and an ER medium worked pretty well on the Roc.

then i realized the twin smalls actually put out less heat than one ER medium. so mounting a ERmedium means you'd need more heatsinks. which would cut into something else. plus, since the medium is too heavy for arm mounting,. you'd have to either sacrifice arc of fire.. or cut into mass somewhere else in order to use a maingun mount.

so basically, in order to build a ER medium version, you'd have to seriously cut into it's armor.. then spread what is left over an extra location.

so yeah, two smalls was a good compromise.

GreekFire

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #10 on: 19 February 2015, 01:33:19 »
They work well as part of an ambush/raiding force where you only need a few turns. Those 40 LRMs can make a big difference for a short span of time, and you can break LoS behind any Level 1 hill to use indirect fire. You just have to make sure that you can turn the tide in 3 turns or your in trouble. One of those all or nothing tactic that the Clans love.

Sure, for those few turns you'll pack one heck of a whallop. But that whallop could be increased even more by cutting into (unnecessary, IMO) range and doubling-down on firepower. I feel like the increased critseeking and damage of SRMs would be a lot more useful in an ambush situation than the better range of the LRMs.

ER Medium?

If you want to see what a possible Procyon with an ER Medium would look like, you don't have to look anywhere farther than the Centaur 3. It's not particularly good in most situations, but it does have its use in urban warfare. The decreased speed of the baseline Procyon, though, would make it less effective that the Centaur.
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GreekFire

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #11 on: 19 February 2015, 01:38:49 »
Note: I forgot the errata (that I submitted, guh..) on the Procyon (Quad). BV is increased from 205 to 237, which still isn't that bad with all that it can do.
Anyway, fixed that in the article. My bad.
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marauder648

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #12 on: 19 February 2015, 03:12:46 »
Magnificent reviews as always :) Although i've never used Proto's i've always liked the look and feel of them and the Procyon quad is without a doubt the finest looking Proto out there.
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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #13 on: 19 February 2015, 23:50:32 »
Hot stuff, Greekfire.  This was well formed article.

I've not been able find people play with the ProtoMechs, with only sometime using MegaMek. 

The Procyon is interesting design, i have to agree the Z is nice and the best, while the Procyon Quad is nice anti-vehicle/trooper unit.  Looking at the RATs for the WOR companion, it  the Stone Lions are one ones using the Procyon (i know the RATs aren't end all of things) but Z model isn't included.   Would the Z be considered tainted too much from the Society usage, despite it not having any tainted equipment in it?
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GreekFire

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #14 on: 20 February 2015, 00:48:55 »
Looking at the RATs for the WOR companion, it  the Stone Lions are one ones using the Procyon (i know the RATs aren't end all of things) but Z model isn't included.   Would the Z be considered tainted too much from the Society usage, despite it not having any tainted equipment in it?

Hmm, that's actually an interesting question. For most Society ProtoMechs I'd say sure, go for it, but for the Procyon Z I'd argue that there's a bit more stigma involved. It's a trademark Coyote Proto, and the Coyotes were the ones that allowed the whole Society thing to get so out of hand. Take it a step farther and add Society 'tech, and I could see a lot of Clan Warriors refusing to pilot the thing. It just screams Coyote/Society collusion, and that adds a layer of political taint on top of the standard Society variety.

I think the question is probably moot. The single Procyon slot probably represents salvage or captured production runs. I'd be surprised if the Procyon plant still functioned after the Reavings; the Coyotes probably dismantled it to prove how unwilling they were to ever touch ProtoMechs again.
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Maelwys

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #15 on: 20 February 2015, 01:24:31 »
Is the Z really that tainted though? Its only odd tech seems to be that it uses MagClamps, which I thought were a Mandrill invention. Sure, okay, it was used by them, but Its not that out there. Though production loss and limited salvage could explain the lack of use by other factions more than it being tainted. Of course, for all we know, everyone is using it, and the RATs just aren't detailed enough.

I'm not sure if its the best though. It seems...I dunno. Counterproductive to boost it to the fastest speed seen in a Procyon, and at the same time adding MagClamps for additional movement. Add that to it being 50kg underweight and it just seems...eh. Of course, if you use the spare weight to bump the SRM back up to 2 tubes, you just get a faster Procyon 5, so that idea is sort of eh as well :)

I like the Quad version. It seems a nice addition to the Horses' forces. I can't help but wonder if Procyon pilots and Buraq pilots get into it over overlapping areas of responsibility.

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #16 on: 20 February 2015, 08:34:33 »
Is the Z really that tainted though? Its only odd tech seems to be that it uses MagClamps, which I thought were a Mandrill invention. Sure, okay, it was used by them, but Its not that out there. Though production loss and limited salvage could explain the lack of use by other factions more than it being tainted. Of course, for all we know, everyone is using it, and the RATs just aren't detailed enough.

I'm not sure if its the best though. It seems...I dunno. Counterproductive to boost it to the fastest speed seen in a Procyon, and at the same time adding MagClamps for additional movement. Add that to it being 50kg underweight and it just seems...eh. Of course, if you use the spare weight to bump the SRM back up to 2 tubes, you just get a faster Procyon 5, so that idea is sort of eh as well :)

I like the Quad version. It seems a nice addition to the Horses' forces. I can't help but wonder if Procyon pilots and Buraq pilots get into it over overlapping areas of responsibility.

Well, one use of a Proto with Magclamps is extra armor for the CT of your 'Mech. After all, everyone jokes about that for BA, it should work the same for Protos.
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GreekFire

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #17 on: 20 February 2015, 11:39:15 »
Is the Z really that tainted though? Its only odd tech seems to be that it uses MagClamps, which I thought were a Mandrill invention. Sure, okay, it was used by them, but Its not that out there. Though production loss and limited salvage could explain the lack of use by other factions more than it being tainted. Of course, for all we know, everyone is using it, and the RATs just aren't detailed enough.

I'd put the Society taint more on the fact that it was designed by them, rather than the actual equipment it uses. But like I said, I think politics would get in the way of other Clans fielding the Procyon (Z) a lot more than it would any other design - even pure Society designs like the Sprite or Hobgoblin.

I'm not sure if its the best though. It seems...I dunno. Counterproductive to boost it to the fastest speed seen in a Procyon, and at the same time adding MagClamps for additional movement. Add that to it being 50kg underweight and it just seems...eh. Of course, if you use the spare weight to bump the SRM back up to 2 tubes, you just get a faster Procyon 5, so that idea is sort of eh as well :)

Yeah...to quote what I said in the Centaur PotW:
Quote
Once again, OmniMechs are the most attractive choice. The Fire Moth, Viper, and Cephalus all look pretty good. Additionally, An ancient Icestorm could be used to carry a single Centaur Z, while jumping Royals are as always a good choice (Ostscouts, anyone?).
...except in this case, the Procyon has a jump 6 speed. It makes the Viper and jumping Royals less interesting, so the number of platforms that can effectively carry the Procyon Z can pretty much be counted on a single hand.

Well, one use of a Proto with Magclamps is extra armor for the CT of your 'Mech. After all, everyone jokes about that for BA, it should work the same for Protos.

Welp, that's certainly a way to make the Hobgoblin useful.
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peter crowley

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Re: ProtoMech of the Week: Procyon and Procyon (Quad)
« Reply #18 on: 20 February 2015, 11:49:20 »
The Procyon quad is what finally made me get some protomechs for my horses. No matter how effective protomechs are or how much the Horses used them I just couldn't bring myself to get any as I found them extremely visually unappealing especially the Orc unfortunately. However the Quad and to a slightly lesser extent the  Svartalfa are attractive enough that I'm willing to give them a go.
I have found that these two protos compliment each other reasonably well with the Quads using their speed to corner an opponent allowing the Svartalfas to get in close and blast away with their heavy firepower.