Author Topic: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC  (Read 7110 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« on: 26 April 2015, 16:47:56 »


Been away a while, haven't I? I'll level with you all. A few weeks ago I suffered a head injury while helping load boxes into a car while moving someone. With previous head injuries on the record, I struggled for a while with being able to do something like... having the lights on, for example. I want to thank Moonsword for covering for me a couple of weeks back, and apologize to him and to you all for missing last week- I thought he was going to do another one last week, and by the time we realized the mistake it was late enough in the week that I just left it alone and figured I'd let it wait until the weekend. So, here we are, I'm back, let's get a brief show on the road.

Moving infantry around via armored vehicle has been a key part of warfare since World War II. From early attempts like the German and American half-tracks to the modern Bradley IFV and Russian BTR, units like this are just the thing for getting troops from point A to point B quickly, without them being at risk of getting killed along the way in a vulnerable truck bed. If you're lucky, your APC might even be able to shoot back in support of the troops. Things haven't changed in a thousand years- in Battletech's universe, APCS are still vital elements of warfare. The advent of battle armor didn't change this much- while the Elemental suit, for example, offered better protection and mobility to the infantry, it still wasn't fast enough to keep up with a rapid advance- and sometimes there's not an Omnimech handy to ride around on. This is particularly true in the case of the Federated Suns- while they enjoy battle armor as much as anyone else, and have a number of Omnimech designs to have them ride, sometimes that's not an option, and a more conventional way to move them around is the way to go. The result here is the JI2A1 APC- a unit that sadly lacks a real name, but can provide a serious impact on the modern battlefield.

Built by Johnston Industries (thus the 'JI' portion of the name), the twin-nosed APC starts with focusing on the 'mobile' part of the job. It accomplishes this with a 120-rated fuel cell engine, scooting the 25-ton craft to 10/15- the kind of speed a VTOL usually reaches. What more can be said beyond that? If your infantry moves a hex a turn, or a couple of hexes for battle armor, this will get it moving a hell of a lot quicker. Hard to argue with that, right?

Another key element to an APC is the whole 'armor' portion. If the vehicle is no better protected than a regular truck, then why build this thing anyway? The JI2A1 (I hate that name) has the advantage of moving fast enough to dodge a lot of incoming fire, but not all of it- for that, it relies on. Four tons of heavy ferro fibrous armor give the plucky little hovercraft the ability to protect itself against a few hits here and there, anyway. With the design being intended to quickly move infantry into harms way, danger is all around- so the armor here is in a very even coating. Twenty points up front, fifteen everywhere else (one less on the rear). Of note, the artwork shows an open-topped infantry bay, which is rather unusual for an APC- Battletech doesn't care, but infantry would probably rather not see what is above  on a battlefield full of shrapnel, aircraft, and Mechs towering over them. Molotovs are a bitch. ;)

The four-ton infantry bay, open topped as it is, is plenty to hold a squad of whatever battle armor you decided to bring along. The author found that while the Davion-built stuff like the Grenadier are obviously well-suited, other units like the Fenrir, Void, or even Purifier are pretty handy as well- depends on what you have in mind for the job of the day (Hauberks seem fun too, but all three attempts to test this theory resulted in Megamek crashes). To keep the infantry safe, a pair of SRM-4s sit in the turret, with a ton of ammo to share. It's simple but effective weaponry- what more could one want, really?

A variant exists, which keeps everything as it was before, but drops the SRM racks for a pair of MML-3s. Since nothing else really changes, this version obviously does slightly less damage per salvo, but can engage at much longer ranges- so that's good news, and makes the variant a much better proposition overall if you can get it.

And you can, because the JI2A1 is one of the most widely utilized APCs in the Inner Sphere. From its early start in the Victoria War, it's spread like wildfire to almost every military in the Inner Sphere, even Clans. So whatever flag you fight under, give some thought to using these nameless but certainly not toothless little monsters to move your troops to the front.
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Scotty

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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #1 on: 26 April 2015, 17:17:42 »
I'm disappointed there's not more SRM ammo.  Being able to load up on alternates would be a godsend for any APC, but this one could really use it.  Setting fires or laying smoke in distant, out of the way places with that very nice speed would be a nice bonus after dropping the infantry.
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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #2 on: 26 April 2015, 17:33:20 »
This tank always strikes me as the go-to standard BA transport for the militias of the 32nd century. Frontline forces just have so many better options, so I assume these largely get dumped on the miliz folks.


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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #3 on: 26 April 2015, 18:30:25 »
I thought this concussion story was going to involve a missed boarding call. Speedy recoveries, JHB!

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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #4 on: 26 April 2015, 19:30:01 »
I agree speedy recoveries I also agree really don't like this thing

Don't like the name or the open top cargo bay it's asking as you rightly said for something to go over the top or for fragmentation missiles to be fired over the twin cockpit is SM1 territory as in done before on this I think not so much
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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #5 on: 26 April 2015, 21:44:25 »
You should just call it the tooth. Kinda looks like one anyways. (x-ray pic)

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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #6 on: 26 April 2015, 22:49:59 »
Alas, the DA mini is too huge to even consider using on hexes; the turret makes a great turret for TAG Scimitars in BT scale, should you be interested.

Going slightly metagame, but I really think they should have made this as an omni. As a 25-ton fuel cell vee, it's not going to be too expensive; not only can you then customise your weapons fit, you would double your carrying load by tacking a squad of BA on the outside. It's not like there isn't precedence - from the venerable Badger & Bandit, to the more recent Capellan Gùn.

So let's hope for a JI2O1 at some stage!
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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #7 on: 27 April 2015, 00:29:47 »

The JI2A1 is a solid combination of speed/armor/firepower for an APC, in both the SRM and MML variants.  The closest competitor is the Saxon, which has the same speed and BV2 (approximately) and over twice the armor (arguably unnecessary), but a lot less firepower (one MG) and is considerably more expensive with a fusion engine.  The Winterhawk is also in the same speed category, has the JI2A1's fuel cell engine cost advantage, and is half the BV2.  But it also carries half the armor (arguably too little) and limited weaponry (MG and SRM-2).  I'd probably take the JI2A1 over the Saxon and Winterhawk most of the time.

What is frustrating among these and most other canon infantry/BA transport designs is the repetitive 4- and 5-ton infantry bays.  The lack of larger bays makes it tough to run heavy and assault BA using the TacOps weight rules, which, being an easy rule, is adopted in a lot of games.  More 6-, 8-, and 10-ton infantry bays, especially on superfast platforms, would be a welcome change/addition.

One way to do that would be WT's Omni suggestion.  A config that drops the SRMs for an 8-ton infantry bay would provide flexibility for heavy and assault BA squads.

I like the art, and actually wish there were "top-attack" rules to better mimic reality and that headhunter missiles didn't get written off as fluff.  Maybe someday that could be addressed with quirks.

It's funny that mechs get both alphanumerical designators and names while vehicles only get the former (JI2A1) or latter (Saxon, Winterhawk).

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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #8 on: 27 April 2015, 00:46:27 »
We actually do have some alpha-numerically designated and named tanks in BattleTech.  The Moltke MBT M1/2/3 comes to mind.

...and not a lot else. 
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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #9 on: 27 April 2015, 00:50:14 »
We actually do have some alpha-numerically designated and named tanks in BattleTech.  The Moltke MBT M1/2/3 comes to mind.

...and not a lot else.

The Marksman M1, BE701 Joust and Ranger VV1 are the only others I can think of offhand.


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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #10 on: 27 April 2015, 05:14:04 »
First off Helbie, hope you're alright
Second, anyone else think we should all chip in to get Helbie a helmet?  Hockey, football doent matter want kind.  Though I do propose it have a pair of dice showing snake eyes on the side. ;)
We need to keep the flow of articles coming here!

This seems like a handy little APC.   I always wondered if Omnimechs were viable solution to carry IS battle armor.  It seems like the house have way more troopers than Omnis to move them.  Inexpensive little monsters like this are just what the doctor ordered.


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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #11 on: 27 April 2015, 07:00:32 »
First off Helbie, hope you're alright
Second, anyone else think we should all chip in to get Helbie a helmet?  Hockey, football doent matter want kind.  Though I do propose it have a pair of dice showing snake eyes on the side. ;)
Perhaps a neurohelmet?
Would be appropriate, wouldn't it? Him being a Battletech forum moderator and Battletech article writer.

I can't think of this... Jital? Jisal? as an APC, because it sure doesn't look like one. It is kind of a like a simple truck that's used to move troops behind your own lines, not a combat unit.
Heck, it doesn't even look like it could work as a transport for ammunition and spare parts near front-lines, too risky with open cargo bay.
Get some armor plates to cover the infantry/cargo compartment and it is good.

Stats-wise, no doubt it is a nice transport.
Does the MML-variant have two tons of ammo?

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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #12 on: 27 April 2015, 07:43:39 »
The well-wishes are welcome. Poking fun at my history of concussion problems... could we not do that? Not to be a tool, but I'm not laughing when it comes to something that affects me every day the way it does. Thanks for understanding.  :-\

Now, as for the Tank That Shall Not Be Named (we need a name- ideas?), someone mentioned the double-nose thing as being similar to the SM1. No justification is given here for the two cockpits- I assume one is for driving and one is for the gunner, but that's just a shallow guess. Certainly no one in the modern world has done something like that for a vehicle outside of oddballs like the F-82 Twin Mustang, and it's safe to say that the JI2A1 isn't in need to dual cockpits for the reason that thing did. It's an odd setup that appears to just be 'because it looks cool'- one can assume the open-top cargo bay is much the same setup. (Of note, there appears to be no seating at all in the back. That'll be fun on long-distance or bad terrain operations.)

One more note- during tests on Thursday evening one of these scored two kills itself on enemy Mechs without any assistance from the infantry (it had already dumped its load of Puma suits)- first with a lucky SRM hit that touched off the ammo bin on a Commando (look Ma, no CASE!), and then with a charging attack that took the leg off a Panther- which then augered its head into the ground. This amused Hellbie.
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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #13 on: 27 April 2015, 09:09:37 »
I'm disappointed there's not more SRM ammo.  Being able to load up on alternates would be a godsend for any APC, but this one could really use it.  Setting fires or laying smoke in distant, out of the way places with that very nice speed would be a nice bonus after dropping the infantry.
At least with the MML version you can get a two ton ammo bay. You're still limited in what you can carry, but its better than one ton.
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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #14 on: 27 April 2015, 10:29:52 »
The Jitter looks to me like a by the numbers fast hover APC, if a little lighter than most. Where the Saxon was kind of revolutionary though the Jitter is kind of meh. Still, at close range tandem charge or inferno SRMs makes great support for the PBI cargo.

I always thought the dual cockpit is because the middle panel is actually a forward hatch, the turret being a remote controlled unmanned one. Other than that, the open top rear is kind of reminiscent of the first BTRs and the ww2 half track Sdkfz 251.

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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #15 on: 27 April 2015, 12:52:37 »
Here's a thought - given that the Infantry Bay in the illustration is open air, does anything thing that it almost asks for a vehicle quirk to written up that would enable the infantry in the bay to add their fire power to the APC's firepower? There are several vehicles that are now available that have gone with the open bay concept (the Eldingar comes to mind) that could make use of this perk...
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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #16 on: 27 April 2015, 13:50:55 »
Here's a thought - given that the Infantry Bay in the illustration is open air, does anything thing that it almost asks for a vehicle quirk to written up that would enable the infantry in the bay to add their fire power to the APC's firepower? There are several vehicles that are now available that have gone with the open bay concept (the Eldingar comes to mind) that could make use of this perk...

It's a fun idea, but think about what that could mean in terms of battle armor on board. For example, think what a squad of Grenadiers could do from that cargo bed- or Hauberks. Hell, Centaurs would be even funnier.

I really like the idea, but I'd have to see some major nerfing to keep it from turning into a mess.  ;D
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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #17 on: 27 April 2015, 14:08:54 »
It's a fun idea, but think about what that could mean in terms of battle armor on board. For example, think what a squad of Grenadiers could do from that cargo bed- or Hauberks. Hell, Centaurs would be even funnier.

I really like the idea, but I'd have to see some major nerfing to keep it from turning into a mess.  ;D

Allocate damage to the infantry before the vehicle  ;)

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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #18 on: 27 April 2015, 14:09:40 »
Honestly, if one allows the use of such quirks, they should most definitely also allow the at least equally common rule that BA use their actual weight.
So you might at best cram two grenadiers into the vehicle, and then why not pack more SRM launchers?
What really makes it smell is BTs inclination to judge everything by weight only, so you could cram a full platoon of heavy Infantry inside.
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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #19 on: 27 April 2015, 14:13:39 »
That's a nice idea for a quirk. Would have to remember to add in the vehicle's movement mod. Maybe with an additional +1?

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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #20 on: 27 April 2015, 16:52:49 »
We actually do have some alpha-numerically designated and named tanks in BattleTech.  The Moltke MBT M1/2/3 comes to mind.

...and not a lot else.
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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #21 on: 27 April 2015, 17:35:03 »
FWIW, I think "Jitter" is what I'll be calling it from now on - credit to Kidd, IIRC.

I assumed the gap between the cockpits was the intake for air for the plenum chamber, while the scoops on the side were for the propulsion jets. Makes sense that it's a remote-controlled turret from one of the cockpits. And the bare carrying compartment makes sense for battle armour - you wouldn't bother with seats, just either brackets or tie-down points.

I like the idea of being able to fire out of open compartments ... but something tells me we should consult some Soviet-era infantrymen wuth BTR experience before taking that too far. Has all the hallmarks of a paper-warrior idea somehow, says this paper warrior ...
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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #22 on: 27 April 2015, 17:37:46 »
Actually, I must apologise, Kidd - I think I just recalled the perfect nickname for the JI2A1 - the Jitney. Ex Wiki, one definition:

Quote
A dollar van (also known as a jitney) is a privately owned type of bus service used to carry passengers in the United States of America. Dollar vans typically operate in neighborhoods within urban areas that are under-served by public mass transit or taxis. Some of the dollar vans are licensed and regulated, while others operate illegally

Seems to fit perfectly, no? :)

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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #23 on: 27 April 2015, 19:00:13 »
If we have Battle Armour riding on vehicles, I don't they'd very much mind an open top.
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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #24 on: 28 April 2015, 00:12:00 »
Jitter, Jitney, it works.  O0 I believe the latter also refers to a kind of trailer used to carry luggage at airports, while the former is what the infantry get when told they're assigned to the JI2A1  :D

Gun ports are no longer built on modern IFVs due to the difficulty of the personnel inside actually hitting the target, and open tops are most vulnerable to plunging fire. Given the relative height of vehicles and most everything else in BT this is of course a Bad Idea (tm). So a good Open Top quirk I think might go: mounted infantry may make attacks at +3 to hit, treat as Omni mounted battle armour when resolving damage, unable to go underwater or in space and treat carried unit as in the open for Toxic atmospheres.

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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #25 on: 28 April 2015, 01:22:05 »
 O0

and

 O0

(although I'd allow special environment infantry to function in that environment (assuming the vehicle can work in that environment. Hovers suffer underwater, or in space, so no point in loading your Jitney up with scuba troopers, for example :) )
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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #26 on: 28 April 2015, 01:33:24 »
JI2A1 Hair-dryer

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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #27 on: 28 April 2015, 08:38:17 »
Jitter, Jitney, it works.  O0 I believe the latter also refers to a kind of trailer used to carry luggage at airports, while the former is what the infantry get when told they're assigned to the JI2A1  :D

Gun ports are no longer built on modern IFVs due to the difficulty of the personnel inside actually hitting the target, and open tops are most vulnerable to plunging fire. Given the relative height of vehicles and most everything else in BT this is of course a Bad Idea (tm). So a good Open Top quirk I think might go: mounted infantry may make attacks at +3 to hit, treat as Omni mounted battle armour when resolving damage, unable to go underwater or in space and treat carried unit as in the open for Toxic atmospheres.

I like it! As far as modifiers go, I probably would have gone with the attacker movement modifier along with an additional +1 to account for the fact that the infantry and the vehicle drive would probably not be on the same page...

I was also thinking that this suggested perk might open up a potential can of worms with Battle Armor mounted on Omni-mechs, too, or does one just write it off that Battle Armor are too busy hanging on for dear life to be concerned about firing at enemies. And before I inadvertently hijack this thread, Worktroll or Jadehellbringer, is there an appropriate board on the forums where this topic can be discussed further?
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Maelwys

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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #28 on: 28 April 2015, 08:53:58 »
Just a small note, in ATOW, there's a personal vehicle called a Jitney, which is a minibus :)

JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: JI2A1 Attack APC
« Reply #29 on: 28 April 2015, 09:15:13 »
*took to calling it a Jitterbug in my head...*
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