Author Topic: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE  (Read 11379 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« on: 03 May 2015, 09:47:40 »


Taking requests, because the well is running a little dry- please, if you have something you want discussed, send it in to my via PM! I can't guarantee I'll cover it (a lot of recent requests have been good, but have been covered recently), but if it hasn't had a recent article I'll do my best at least.

So. Let's talk WiGE units, a unit near and dear to the author's heart. Having studied the ekranoplan concept (wing-in-ground effect) in college, the introduction of units like the Hiryo and Fensalir into Battletech was a gleeful thing for the author. The concept is a fascinating one- in effect, the wings create lift like an airplane, but by forcing air down onto the surface below it creates a sort of 'cushion' that the unit rides on- in some way similar to the effect of a hovercraft, but created and utilized in a very different way. (It's much more complex than that, but I'm trying to keep it short and simple for the purposes of not making this an enormous article- a more detailed 'what is a WiGE?' article may come later as a VotW special report). While the ekranoplan concept never really caught on in most places, they do see service in civilian roles in the former Soviet Union, and even the Soviet military explored amphibious and anti-ship strike roles for these interesting craft.

So, a thousand-odd years into the future, what do we find? The concept has returned, with a number of craft coming out during and after the Jihad. One of these, the Fensalir, was a horrifying Lyran craft that allowed a heavy Gauss rifle to zip around the battlefield with relative ease- not fun to deal with. It only made sense to create a follow-on unit, but rather than simply create new variants of the proven Fensalir, Nashan Diversified instead went with a whole new airframe because... reasons... shut up... anyway, the result was the Schwalbe, or Swallow, which ends up being as Lyran-thinking as a Zeus in lederhosen.

As with VTOLs and hovercraft, a WiGE relies on being able to move quickly- they're not particularly durable, so even an otherwise innocuous hit can have severe consequences. The 45-ton Swallow... doesn't move as fast as one might like. At 7/11, it's pretty quick still, but it's going to take hits that a faster unit might be able to avoid. Regardless, it accomplishes this still-handy movement via a 200XL engine, an expensive but necessary setup which the Swallow's design does take full advantage of. It IS worth remembering that a WiGE doesn't care about such obstacles as water or rough terrain, so that speed is faster than it looks. (Note that Total Warfare rules that a WiGE must move at least five hexes in a turn to remain airborne, and on the ground is treated as a hovercraft with an MP of 1, with all the restrictions that a hover would have in terms of terrain.) Worth noting is the flotation hull equipment, which effectively turns the Swallow into a flying boat of sorts, able to land on water safely. Handy, particularly in areas like swamps and coastlines.

If Steiner built it, it probably is tougher than old shoe leather, in general. The Swallow doesn't break the mold. Seven and a half tons of heavy ferro-fibrous armor give the craft a pretty hefty skin for its size. The old VotW cannon is stymied by this beast- fifty points up front mean that it can take two hits from the old AC-20 and not even care. The sides get another thirty-five points each, enough to withstand three Gauss hits before breaking, on a 45-ton unit mind you! Even the rear gets twenty-eight points. However you go about killing a Swallow, it won't be an easy time of it. That's a lot of protection, and combined with the unit's rules of movement (remember, have to move at least five hexes to stay airborne), the movement modifiers to hit it in the first place won't be great. So it's far tougher than even this appears. (Testing proved this out, both using it and fighting it- if you do score a hit, it takes a long time for the Swallow to start caring)

One of the knocks against this thing is that it's just a faster Hetzer. The author, having used Hetzers many times over the years, wonders where the drawback to that is exactly. A massive Defiance Disintegrator LB-20X autocannon sits in the nose, in an unusual-shaped mounting. You should be sweating the idea of a huge clustergun on a fast-moving, hard-to-kill frame right about now- and the idea of a lance of four of them should have you breaking out in hives. Three tons of ammunition allow the carriage of multiple ammo types (the author advises two cluster, one solid), and makes enemy vehicles and such simply vanish in a cloud of pain. A pair of ER medium lasers use the heat sinks from that engine nicely, and are handy backup weapons to the main gun- these are also nose-mounted, of course. That's a lot of 'oomph' for a 45-ton craft. I told you it was Steiner-flavored!

Interestingly, as with the Behemoth II, the production version listed here wasn't the original model. The original was rejected by the LCAF- it didn't feel Lyran enough, so the giant-freakin'-cannon version above was the result. The original model is still produced for export though, and admittedly has a very Davion feel to it. The weapons in this version are replaced with a rotary AC-5 fed by three tons of ammunition, backed by a snub-nosed PPC. Both versions are nasty in their own way, but this version was preferred at the end of the day by the author- even when the RAC jams, the rules to the unit allow it to quickly zip away to safety to get the gun working again, and even if that's not an option the PPC is an excellent hole-puncher that enemy forces have to take seriously. The Lyrans are fools for ignoring this unit that they had access too- but, all things considered, they got a very nice unit instead,  so it isn't a total disaster for them.

Go forth, use Swallows, tell stories, recommend upgrades, send requests to the author, read more VotW articles as they come out, etc.!
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #1 on: 03 May 2015, 09:55:28 »
Wow. Liking both variants. I love me some LB-Xs, but a RAC/5 and snubby is nothing to sneeze at either. The speed is a bit lacking for a WIGE, but otherwise the thing is both offensively and defensively a brick.

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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #2 on: 03 May 2015, 10:28:26 »
How would an "old school FedCom" style small unit be with both the Davion and Steiner flavoured variants working together to inflict pain and suffering on their enemies?
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #3 on: 03 May 2015, 15:09:23 »
Many thanks for the article!  However, it is incomplete. It lacks something.....




No Swallow article would be complete without some ME262 porn... O:-) O:-)

In my opinion, it is the best WiGE of the game. Some extra speed would be welcome (a variant with a supercharger, as example) but the mix of armor, speed and weapons is vastly superior to the nixos and the fensalir. The Hiryo is also good but it has another mission profile. Also, turret mounted weapons would be welcome, but we are talking about fun units to play. For min/maxed units look for the Hellstar  ;)

  The LBX20 monster should be used carefully. It is a flanker/harasser. Avoid charging into the middle of the fray, use the flanks and cover to strike from the back of the enemy formation or lone units (it is a great way to deal with LRM boats and other support units). A nice tactic is to zip very, very fast and use the LBX20 to hit the side of a tank. And get a good escape plan because after the first immobilized tank you will get a lot of attention.  The lack of range is a problem and may force you to wait and be careful... it is a downside.

  The Davion version doesn't have that issue. You can use the same tactics at a safe range. The RAC/5 5 points and the 10 point hit of the snub are great for opening the back armor of mechs. The number of hits also works well with tanks. This version is pure gold.
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #4 on: 03 May 2015, 17:41:39 »
^Don't have anything to add to that.
A good vehicle, Steiner cliché done right.
Though as mentioned in the article (thanks for doing those articles regularly O0), not following the cliché sort of makes it better.
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #5 on: 03 May 2015, 17:45:07 »

You know...the more I look at this thing, the more it looks like it escaped from the Crimson Skies universe...


Haven't used it yet, but it does look fun. A faster, more armored flying Hetzer could certainly find some uses...  >:D

a more detailed 'what is a WiGE?' article may come later as a VotW special report).


Yes, yes please!  :) O0
Have only used WiGEs once...and didn't end well. Not even sure if I was reading the rules right.




A quick question about WiGEs in general...since they are actually aircraft, would they be grouped into pairs? So would they be organized in the Flight/Squadron/Wing style? Or still use the Platoon/Company/Battalion structure?

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UnLimiTeD

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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #6 on: 03 May 2015, 17:48:02 »
I think just like Hovercraft, they use the Ground organizational structure.
Of course, that depends on the individual force commander, but they aren't planes.
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #7 on: 03 May 2015, 18:12:52 »
No Swallow article would be complete without some ME262 porn... O:-) O:-)

The name says Swallow, but the looks say late-model Stuka ...

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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #8 on: 03 May 2015, 21:00:15 »
I'm still experimenting with WIGEs myself, there nice machines when you want more out of a hovercraft like design.
Lyran's like big guns, frankly I can't say RAC/5 is as appealing as the Snubby version which in campaign setting, i rather have.

I love the art that Matt Plogg created for the Swallow.  He really captured the spirit of the ME262 and the Stuka in the Swallow after looking at those vintage pictures.

Thanks again for coming up with neat article of the week, Jadehellbringer


I'd like ask the author of this article a question...What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?  ;)
« Last Edit: 04 May 2015, 09:26:46 by Wrangler »
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #9 on: 04 May 2015, 04:06:44 »
The name says Swallow, but the looks say late-model Stuka ...



I don't know. To me it looks much more like the Me 262 and Hs 129 (anti-tank gun version) had a love-child. In fact, even the position of the lasers harkens back to the position of machine guns from the latter.

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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #10 on: 04 May 2015, 08:10:59 »
Nice review of a nasty piece of kit!  I've not used WiGE's and I know i'd not like to face this tough bird.  An LB-20 moving that fast..*shudders*
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #11 on: 04 May 2015, 08:39:44 »
Nice review of a nasty piece of kit!  I've not used WiGE's and I know i'd not like to face this tough bird.  An LB-20 moving that fast..*shudders*

Same boat.  I read the rules but still not quite sure on these.

Hellbie that "what's a WiGE" article would be cool


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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #12 on: 04 May 2015, 08:43:24 »
I'm fond of the Swallow's execution.  WiGEs are still a largely unproven concept in the circles of players i've encountered.  More designs, especially ones with impressive stats like the Swallow help to legitimize them as a category of combat vehicle.  People who might have snubbed the Hiryo as unnecessary (the fools!) or the Fenaslir as a Lyran Spruce Goose might find the Swallow's speed, heavy armament and excessive armor profile more appealing.

On the other hand, i'm surprised no one has mentioned the similarity to the role filled by the Saladin.  Yes, the Swallow is a WiGE, and therefore has slightly different applications.  But, it is still a swift moving unit with a front mounted LB-20-X AC.  The Saladin covers largely the same role, albeit without the complications that come from the WiGE being an airborne unit.  The armor profile of the Swallow is impressive.  But, similar to a hovercraft, the best armor a WiGE has is speed.  Once the WiGE is hit the chasis type will sap MP from it faster than any other combat vehicle.  And, we're all familiar with how long an immobilized vehicle lasts: just long enough put a check in a box.  Since the LB-20-X AC is front mounted, that last turn the Swallow spends in existence is going to be limited to firing arc and range restrictions that the enemy can exploit.  The armor is nice, but largely pointless.  The MP will go much faster.

Which is really the Swallow in general.  It does a job that no one really needs covered, in the most expensive way possible, with mediocre results.  A true Lyran inspiration.  It can be effective.  But, effective and efficient are different things.

SNPPCs on hovercraft and WiGEs are a good idea.  The front mount means you won't be able to claim the full movement to-hit penalty most of the time.  But, a +4 isn't bad when combined with the short range of a SNPPC.  That is, unless there are flak guns on the field.  The overall damage output is higher, which lends itself better to backstabbing through the minimal armor of a mech's rear torso.  The LB-20-X version can hack it with a slug round, followed by cluster fire in follow up turns.  But, the SNPPC/RAC5 combination can go right for the gyro without delay.
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #13 on: 04 May 2015, 09:15:10 »
To me, the thing that makes the WiGE possibly more valuable than other conventional vehicles is that it can be launched/dropped from a dropship, which can be huge for planetary assaults or raids.

(I remember reading a  fan short story on the forums about a merc unit equipped with WiGEs being launched directly from a dropship. It came up in the discussion afterward that apparently you can do this under the WiGE rules...)
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #14 on: 04 May 2015, 11:12:51 »
Yep, pgs 22 & 23 of StratOps have the rules for in-atmosphere combat drops (and the WiGE units are specifically listed as valid units).
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #15 on: 04 May 2015, 11:30:48 »
Yep, pgs 22 & 23 of StratOps have the rules for in-atmosphere combat drops (and the WiGE units are specifically listed as valid units).

Which, based on a WiGE's unique properties, probably shouldn't be the case, but we'll go over that in the upcoming VotW special.
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #16 on: 04 May 2015, 12:26:21 »
I found it to be a great 5th unit in a Hovertank century.

Use some Gladiuses as can openers then have the Swallow sweep in to fill the holes with pellets.

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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #17 on: 04 May 2015, 12:53:45 »
Which, based on a WiGE's unique properties, probably shouldn't be the case, but we'll go over that in the upcoming VotW special.
i don't know.. the russians actually played around with the idea of launching smaller ekranoplans off the back of cargo jets for rescue/fast deployment purposes. apparently while they can't fly, they do manage a powered glide if launched from above ground effect.

though i imagine the ride wouldn't be all that smooth or safe..

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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #18 on: 04 May 2015, 13:00:05 »
I have to admit that my WiGE-Fu is bad, but are WiGE's (at a certain altitude/level) allowed to strafe? I was thinking of how much of an annoyance the Swallow would be on the heavy forest map, popping up over the trees and hitting targets who thought they were safe from enemy fire deep in the woods.
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #19 on: 04 May 2015, 13:19:38 »
I have to admit that my WiGE-Fu is bad, but are WiGE's (at a certain altitude/level) allowed to strafe? I was thinking of how much of an annoyance the Swallow would be on the heavy forest map, popping up over the trees and hitting targets who thought they were safe from enemy fire deep in the woods.

Not that I've been able to find, at least. Its rules are based more on hovercraft (which can't) rather than on aircraft (which can), so I don't see anything about strafing rules.
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #20 on: 04 May 2015, 14:04:25 »
I can't wait to read the article about the WIGEs.  I've followed the developments, found bloggers showing off pictures of rotting russian Lun Class Ekranoplan boats in a shipyard forgotten.  I read also Iranians playing with small one man ones for swarm attacks.   

Personally, while I'm not engineer of any sort.  I don't get how these ground-effect craft can fly over land, or forests.  I just assume it a Battletech physics thing and not real work thing. I'm sure I'm wrong in some glaring angle.
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #21 on: 04 May 2015, 14:07:30 »
All will be revealed, guys- please, let's keep this about the Swallow in particular, and save the general-WiGE questions for the VotW special.
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #22 on: 04 May 2015, 20:21:49 »
I have become very fond of be RAC5.  Granted I prefer the clan version because the range is exceptional.  But something moving 7/11 with a RAC5 and Snubbie and that much armor is scary.

Worst case whoever you go after with it gets real distracted and forgets about your Zeus or whatnot.
Best case they focus on the Zeus and you get this thing in their rear arc.

It's one of this units that forces an opponent to make a lesser of two evils decision.  You put enough of those situations in front of someone and they start to add up.


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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #23 on: 04 May 2015, 21:12:38 »
Personally, while I'm not engineer of any sort.  I don't get how these ground-effect craft can fly over land, or forests.  I just assume it a Battletech physics thing and not real work thing. I'm sure I'm wrong in some glaring angle.

Why shouldn't they work on land? Ground effect vehicles work similiar to hovercrafts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_vehicle#Design
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #24 on: 04 May 2015, 23:45:36 »
Something about the artwork, maybe the cockpit?  It reminds me of the Sturmovik.

On the upside, while slower than most hovercraft, a WIGE doesn't have to spend MP for elevation changes, and can drop as many levels as it likes safely.  And being one level above the terrain means besides moving you only use MPs to turn or keep from dropping altitude when the terrain drops.  So you have more MP than it looks compared to VTOLs and hovercraft which do have to pay for those level changes.

OTOH you are going to need it, because:
Once the WiGE is hit the chasis type will sap MP from it faster than any other combat vehicle.  And, we're all familiar with how long an immobilized vehicle lasts: just long enough put a check in a box.

It's worse than that.  Do not get hit from the side, that is a bit better than a one in four chance (a bit over one-third of needing a motive crit roll, and just under three-quarters a chance of a complete blow out if you do) of catastrophically blowing out your motive system forcing an automatic crash, worse case up to fifty point of damage.  I suspect that loses from auguring into the ground from motive damage will take out more than being disabled exclusively by enemy fire.

In light of that the heavy armor looks more like crash protection to let you recover the machine and crew later.

And Swallow that manages to survive a motive hit should immediate return to base, because a second is sure to force it down.

The Sally is a good comparison, if you can avoid motive damage it can take a few hits, and has the speed to come around a flank for a strike.  Force the enemy to choose which threat he has to honor, and pound him with the other.  For the strike, get in, hit your exposed target, then extend out to set up the next pass.  Minimize his shots at your sides to protect from unplanned intersection with the terrain, and for the same reason avoid a turning fight.  Just because you can turn tighter than a fighter doesn't mean it is wise to.

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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #25 on: 05 May 2015, 00:01:16 »
One thing I'd add to the article is to mention the implication of the +4 modifier that WIGEs get on the motive system damage table, which is worse than any other combat vehicle type (even hover).  Anytime the Swallow takes damage, it has slightly more than a 1-in-3 chance of having to roll on the motive system damage table.  And when it does have to roll on the motive system damage table, the Swallow will get its cruising MP cut in half (or worse) nearly 3/4ths of the time thanks to that +4 modifier.

Based on that, it would be interesting to see some future WIGEs spend more tonnage on armored motive systems or advanced armors (stealth, hardened, ferro-lamellor), and less on just lots of raw armor like the Swallow, to reduce the higher likelihood that they get rapidly turned into unflyable pillboxes.

In the same vein, it would also be interesting to see some future WIGEs with longer-ranged weapons than what we've seen on the Swallow and its ilk so far.  It's tempting to make these fast units into close-range zoom-and-slash attackers, but WIGEs are so vulnerable to motive hits that they may be better off as fast snipers in the backfield.  It would be pretty straightforward to trade the Swallow's LB 20-X for a Gauss, for example.
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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #26 on: 05 May 2015, 03:35:35 »
Good writeup  8) WiGEs don't get the attention they deserve.

About the Swallow: Like the Fensalir, it fits the Lyran trope to a t. Heavy armor for its size, and slow for its size, and carrying a BFG. Like others have already pointed out, this is a rich man's Saladin. It will have a hard time surviving the enemy attention it inevitably attracts  :-\
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chanman

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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #27 on: 14 May 2015, 18:38:49 »
Could be worse. Opponents should be happy they didn't just crank out an even split of vanilla head-capper gauss and ferrous-nickel Shreddies SB gauss versions  O0

UnLimiTeD

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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #28 on: 14 May 2015, 20:12:42 »
I think that's left for a WiGE regulator with Stealth Armour, much as I know the Capellans don't have a homegrown WiGE yet.  }:)
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FedSunsBorn

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Re: VotW: Swallow Attack WiGE
« Reply #29 on: 14 May 2015, 23:16:23 »
No one can go wrong with an LB-20X and the armor and speed to use it but that Snubbie/RAC-5 combo seems awesome imo. I haven't really used WiGE's but the variant interests me a lot.
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