Author Topic: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer  (Read 16494 times)

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11054
Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« on: 02 July 2015, 08:37:16 »
Welcome back to the Alpha Strike ‘Mech of the Week.  This week, we will tackle one the ‘mech that first drew me in to BattleTech so long ago, the Warhammer.  The Warhammer, to me, defines the Brawler role.  Just enough speed to be strategically “mobile”, but not enough to provide its own defense.  The Warhammer moves because the position it is heading to is advantageous, either in cover or range, but not because the speed makes it difficult to hit. Standing still, once it gets in to position, is often a useful tactic.
For weaponry, it carries a mix of long range and short range.  Capable of joining a longer range firing group, as it gets closer it can do even more damage.  This makes it suitable as a “line ‘mech”, where it can work well with others to dominate a position, or advance on a position.
Of course, as we get in to variants, some may diverge from this standard..

Succession Wars


The Warhammer does not have a primitive version, having evolved from the BattleAxe and Hammerhands.  So we go straight in to the WHM-6R as the original Warhammer.   For its time, the long range damage of 2 is pretty effective, and it’s slight increase (plus possible overheat) at medium and short also being an effective standard for a heavy ‘mech of the Succession Wars. 
The one drawback is its armor of 5.  Not terrible, but when you have more structure than armor, you must realize that it could be better.  The WHM-6R has no special abilities and is found in almost every House, mercenary or even pirates, especially in the Succession Wars era.  All together, it’s an effective but pretty bland Brawler that is often a strong member of Battle and Command Lances.  As a fairly effective long range combatant for this era, it's also useful in Fire Lances.


The Kuritan 6K’s differences mean nothing in Alpha Strike, it’s an exact copy of the 6R’s Alpha Strike card. 


The Capellan Warhammer 6L switches to some flamers.  They are not enough to qualify for the Heat special ability, but instead the 6L ends up with a higher overheat value (2) and lower medium range damage (the 6R’s 3 drops to a 2 for the 6L).  This results in one less PV for the 6L.  This variant generally earns a reputation of just being an inferior 6R that only a Capellan would love.



The last Succession Wars variant is the WHM-6D.  Remember that one weakness of the 6R, its armor?  The 6D trades some extra weapons (losing the OV1) to carry more armor.  Three more armor, for a total of 7.  This will become a standard for later Warhammers, but it definitely stands out among Succession Wars Warhammers.  It also happens to drop the explosive ammo, meaning it gains the ENE special ability.  This makes the 6D significantly tougher, and you pay an extra 4 PV (36 total) for the toughness.  The real drawback is its availability, only the Federated Suns has access to this variant.   This remains an excellent variant even in to later eras.

Lost Star League Variants
Lost with the fall of the Star League, were two “Royal” variants that were intended for the Star League’s Royal regiments, and a Kuritan variant that only saw service at fall of the Star League.  These are generally extinct post Star League era, though the Taurian Concordant refits older 6Rs to 6Rbs post 3075 and some of those make their way to mercenaries, pirates and the rest of the Periphery.


The Warhammer 6Rb is the oldest of these.  Improving on the 6R, it switched to double heat sinks, allowing the Warhammer to utilize all its weaponry without overheating.  It drops the OV1, and increases its medium range damage to 4 and its short range to 5.  It also manages to carry one more armor.  This variant is noticeably more expensive at 38 PV.  While still labeled as a Brawler, you’re paying 6 extra PV primarily for the higher medium and short range damage.  If you’re going to sit at long range (Fire Lance), you’re still paying for that medium and short range damage.  But perhaps as a “bodyguard” for the rest of the Fire Lance members it’s still worth it to you.



The Warhammer 7A is a more extensive upgrade.  Even more armor, CASE special ability and increased medium and short range damage, 4 of each, while keeping the OV1.  But it’s also 40 PV.  It’s better at everything the Warhammer does, except long range damage.  Keep in mind that one exception when deciding which Warhammer to choose from.


The Warhammer 6Rk is our first big break from the “standard” Warhammer. Not that this unit was only available to Kurita, and only in the late Star League era.  Perhaps it survived into the First Succession War, but was long gone by the Late Succession Wars.  Featuring an XL engine, it is fast enough to change its role from Brawler to Skirmisher.  Its weaponry remains fairly typical for Warhammers, but that XL engine halves its structure value.  The 6Rk does manage to carry more armor (7 Armor) to cover that delicate structure.  For 37 PV, you’re getting a much more mobile unit.  When moving, the increased difficulty to hit and improved armor is definitely worth the decreased structure.  But standing still is not going to be as useful an option with this model, one of the reasons for the change in role.


Early Clan Invasion

With access to rediscovered Star League technology, the Warhammer received several new variants, the WHM-7M, WHM-7S, WHM-7K.  These are relatively “safe” upgrades, leaving the base 6R mostly intact. Unfortunately, this means most still have the armor weakness of the 6R..  The Early Clan Invasion Warhammers also suffer from the PPC to ER PPC Alpha Strike conversion.  The PPC is already long range in Alpha Strike, so the ER PPC's greater range means nothing.  Ironically, the ER PPC is actually an improved at short range, since it drops the minimum range of the PPC...  But the important note for the Early Clan Invasion Warhammers, and even later eras, is that the Warhammer rarely improves on the 2 long range damage of the Succession Wars models. This makes the Warhammer a less capable "primary fire" unit, and more a pure Brawler.  If only it had more armor...


The 7M is available to (almost?) everybody.  Marik gave these away as door prizes.  Double heat sinks moved the OV1 to the base short and medium damage (leaving it with OV0 and 4s for S and M).  It also got the AMS special ability.  And there’s a minor PV cost to pay for those improvements.
Unfortunately, it did nothing for the 6R’s armor, nor the long range damage.  So while it’s still a Brawler, the 7M is definitely starting to skew more towards short/medium range, and within Fire Lances is looking more like a bodyguard that pitches in, rather than a primary Fire Lance member.



The 7S comes from Steiner and is available to its friends in the Federated Suns as well (and their mercs).  It manages to increase S and M damage (5 and 4), and keep the OV1.  Yay, weapons!  No special abilities, and we still have that lackluster armor.   And we pay several PV points for those damage upgrades (4).  As with the 7M, we’re skewing toward closer ranges.



The 7K took a couple more years to reach production, and it was worth it.  A Draconis Combine exclusive variant, the 7K increases the damage by converting OV to S and M, but it also adds armor (7).  It also adds the TAG special ability, because why not?  You pay for that damage and armor (39 PV), but it’s definitely an improvement on the old 6R. 


Project Phoenix
With the Civil War era, we hit another wave of Warhammer variants.  Part of the Project Phoenix “movement”, we finally leave the Unseens behind.  The Warhammer 8D, 4L, 9D and 9S show the popularity of the Warhammer among many different armies.  And we finally get better armor as a standard for Warhammers in this era.


The 8D took many of the Clan Invasion variants and put them together as a “best case”.  We have the 4s for S and M range damage, and OV1 to show as improvements.  Same old speed and long range damage.  But we also get the improved armor (7), CASE, and new to the Warhammer, a C3 slave.  Of course, since we’ve improved the Warhammer significantly, we also have a significant cost increase, with a PV of 42.  Compared to the WHM-6D, we have 1 more damage at S and M, and the C3 slave and CASE.  Is that worth the 6 extra PV?  If you have C3 in the lance, I think most definitely.  If you don’t have C3, which may be a tough sell.  But not enough that I would avoid the 8D.   And since Starcorps is selling the 8D to practically everybody, you can have it any time you want it.  For many factions, this may be their only Project Phoenix Warhammer available.



The Steiner Warhammer 9S uses their new light fusion engines.  This keeps 4 of the 6 Structure of older Warhammers, and increases the armor to the new standard of 7.  It also reaches the new standard for S and M damage (4), and keeps the OV1.  It protects against ammo explosions with CASE.  Though that is slightly less useful with less structure. Overall, this is a pretty standard improved Warhammer.  Without the 8D’s C3, it keeps its cost down to 38 PV, and that alone might be reason to choose the 9S over the 8D.  Note that, in addition to Steiner’s associated mercenaries, the Word of Blake and Circinus Federation also have access to the 9S..



Leave it to the Capellans to make a different Warhammer.  First, though they did upgrade the S and M damage to 4, like many upgraded Warhammers, they had to have OV2.  They love it hot.  But that heat is also coming from its Stealth special ability.  Along with CASE and ECM, this Warhammer is loaded with fun special abilities.  And they got the armor right, with the now common 7 armor. But it had to pay to mount all those upgrades, and did so with an XL engine, halving its structure to 3.  And it matches the 8D’s PV of 42.   The 4L is a bit of a mismatch.  The Stealth works great at long range, and does nothing at short.  The 4L is merely OK at long range damage though, making me wonder if STL is really a good fit for it.  But Stealth does help at medium range and it gets its full damage potential at medium range, so it’s not bad.  Just makes you wondering if it could be done better..



The 9D, unlike the 8D, is the Davion only Warhammer.  And they saved a rather different Warhammer for themselves.  We’ve no longer got a Brawler, but a Sniper (and it could well have been a Skirmisher).  We have the improved armor (7), and improved S and M range damage that has become the new standard for the Warhammer.  It even gets the ENE special ability to sneak in there. Where this model stands out, is the increased movement (10”/6”j) and the improved long range damage (finally getting a 3).  This is fire support for the “armored cavalry” of the AFFS.  How did it get that speed and long range damage?  Another XL engine to leave it with only 3 structure.  Not quite as costly as the 4L or 8D, but in the same ballpark (40 PV).  With the ability to choose a standard Brawler Warhammer (8D) or a mobile fire support (9D), Davion has some good Warhammer choices.


Jihad and Beyond
The Jihad brought another wave of new technology, and a new wave of Warhammers came with it.  The 8M, 10T, 8K, 5L, 11T, 8D2 and the offbeat “Lich” and WHD-10CT show that the Warhammer remains popular throughout the Inner Sphere. By this era, Warhammers have really started to branch out, and we really don't have a standard to compare all these variants with.  In particular, movement options and even having a mix of long and short range weaponry are now something that varies dramatically in different Warhammer variants. The good news?  They've all got more armor than the 6R.


The Marik 8M moves to a Sniper.  One look at the damage values show the improved long range damage of 3, with no increase of damage at short and medium range (also 3s).  It does have an OV1 that it can add to short and medium range, but it’s not something to rely on.  No change in speed, but it manages to have the improved armor (7), while keeping the full structure (6) and adding CASE.  So it’s pretty tough for a Warhammer.  That long range damage lets it fill out a number of spots as long range support, either in a full lance of long range (Fire Lance), or as part of a Command, Assault or Battle Lance.




The Taurian Concordant manages its own new variant in the Jihad, and it was worth the wait.  We have another change in role, with the 10T becoming a Skirmisher.  And yep, that means more movement.  10” and….14”j?  That’s something you expect from a medium/light Striker!  And if has improved armor (7).  This thing will be a pain in your rear.  But it’s only got 2s for S, M and L range damage.  It does have OV1, in case you really need that extra damage this turn.  And it needed an XL engine to reach that speed, with the resulting decrease in structure (3).  The ENE isn’t of much use as protection with only 3 structure, but you can save on campaign costs.  And it’s a relatively cheap 35 PV.



The 8K is one of my favorites, and unfortunately the MUL says only available to Kurita.  This is a better 8D.  The C3, improved armor, and tough structure (and CASE) are paired with an increase in long range damage (3).  Your opponent will hate how often the 8K’s paired heavy ppcs are hitting him at long range.  It does have a high cost to go with it, 42 PV, but that matches the 8D.  Because of that long range damage, the 8K got tagged as a Sniper.  But the 8K still works well in the standard Brawler role as well.  It's tough and hits hard at any range. 



With our Warhammers not diverging from the common ancestor, Capellans had to go and show they really are crazier than anybody else, and introduced the 5L.  Drop the long range completely (to 0!), and this one waddles like a penguin (6” MV?).  That’s a horrible combination.  But what is this?  10”j?  And 4 damage at S and M.  Ok, we’re starting to have a plan here.  We get up close, buzz around the opponent and make his life miserable.  Yeah, we need a change of role, and we’ve got one.  Skirmisher.  The Capellans went halfway on improving the armor (6), but then managed to keep a standard engine and the full 6 structure, also adding CASE.  But the real fun is the Heat special ability of 1/1/-.  Not many units have HT beyond short range, and the 5L is the first Warhammer to get a HT ability at all.  Did I mention this 5L is really annoying to fight against?  The 40 PV reflects the high TMM with the 10”j movement and good medium range damage.


The Warhammer 8D2 is a minor variant of the 8D, dropping an SRM launcher for a thunderbolt-5 and boosting the C3 slave.  The boosted c3 slave is pretty simple, it makes it harder to jam (immune to standard ECM).  The swap of the SRM for a thunderbolt-5 has a very interesting effect on the damage values though.  Suddenly we have the 3 for long range, and we drop to 3 for short range.  This is the only (first?) Warhammer to have a damage reduction at short range.  This could very well be a Sniper, rather than a Brawler (though it officially retains the Brawler role of the 8D).  That long range of 3 and the c3 slave are a great combination for any c3 network.  The 8D2 also gets IF1, but giving up on 3/4 damage in order to deal IF1 doesn't seem of much use to me.  Keep the 8D2 at range, use the c3 to make this thing hit at will, and watch the enemy curse in rage.
The MUL does not have availability for the 8D2 yet, but the 8D was sold to everybody.  And the 8D2 is a pretty simple refit.  Access to boosted c3 networks is the major hinderance to who might be fielding the 8D2.  If you've got no other boosted c3 variants available (and a boosted c3 master in particular), then the 8D2 isn't much good to you.


The Taurian Concordant came out with the WHM-11T.  The weapons load was completely changed (from the old WHM-6* series the Taurians had been building), and yet the Alpha Strike conversion came out...almost exactly the same.   The rather common 3/3/2, with OV1.  It does have IF0*, but we don't really care. The armor of 6 is pretty normal, not good, but not the worse for a Warhammer.
But then it's weird.  Only 3 structure behind that mediocre armor, and makes the CASE less than useful (you're going to die soon anyway if you didn't already).  So why would you want this?   Presumably because of the 8"/10"j.  The 10"j gives it a +3 TMM when jumping, pretty sweet.  You do have to pay that +2 jumping to-hit modifier on your own attacks though, or not use the jumping movement.  That steep jumping modifier means you're likely going to want to use this in close, hopping around making yourself hard to pin down or hit.  If you don't want to jump, this variant isn't for you.
It is only 34 PV.  But if you're not going to jump, or you want it to contribute at long range, take an old fashioned WHM-6* variant.  If you want something to be in a furball, take a look at the 11T.
But only if you've got a Taurian (or Canopian) force.  Nobody else gets them.

Finally, we have the original “Lich” and it’s production variant, the WHD-10CT.


The Lich is a unique Solaris variant.  It’s got a pretty boring speed of 8”, and mediocre damage at S and M (3s).  No long range damage is reflective of its use in usually confined arenas.  It’s armor is improved to 7, but it’s structure shows the effects of a light engine (4).  It does have both CASE and ARM (armored components to ignore first critical effect), but with only 4 structure they aren’t as useful as they could be.  The real oddball is the OV of 3.  Wait for a good to-hit roll before unleashing that alpha strike though!  With all the drawbacks of this model (relatively slow, low structure and no long range), the Lich is cheap at 34 PV.  If you really wanted a Warhammer to get up close, this is a cheap option.  I’m not so sure it fits as a good Brawler though, with no long range at all.  Not by this time period at least.



he production WHD-10CT is pretty similar to its forebearer.  It moves 1 from OV to S and M (always a good move), and it switches the rarely useful ARM special ability for a C3 slave.  Which, if you are building a C3 lance, it always useful.  If you’re not, then you know this isn’t likely to be an optimum choice.  Unfortunately, the 10CT is no longer as cheap, costing 39 PV. 


So there we have it.  A bunch of good brawlers/snipers, followed by better brawlers, before descending into anarchy :).  We also have the Clan Warhammers (the C and the IICs), which I have decided to save for a separate article. 
Good luck, and don’t get caught in the plasma!
« Last Edit: 13 July 2015, 12:24:31 by nckestrel »
Alpha Strike Introduction resources
Left of Center blog - Tukayyid Expanded Random Unit Tables, Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25163
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #1 on: 02 July 2015, 09:12:42 »
Thank you for doing this article, nckestrel!

Warhammer still favorite of mine, in the midst of new designs piling up around it out shining it.
I'm baby new to Alpha Strike, some details of the game are going over my head. 

I'm surprised how low unimpressive the 8K's guns are in this.  Heavy PPCs don't do as much damage i guess in this than others.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11054
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #2 on: 02 July 2015, 09:38:35 »
Missed the 8D2, so I've added it in the article.

Don't underestimate the advantage of that 3 at long range for the 8K.  There's a reason Scotty uses 3 damage as a "beat stick" to measure armor.  For the Succession Wars, 2 is acceptable sniper/Fire Lance damage.  By the Civil War/Jihad, you're competing with Clan ER PPCs, paired Guass Rifles, ER PPC and Gauss combinations, etc that are all 3s at long range.  Twin IS ER PPCs are pretty lackluster at that point.  You're not winning a long range battle against most opponents with 2 damage at long range in those eras.
Alpha Strike Introduction resources
Left of Center blog - Tukayyid Expanded Random Unit Tables, Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4884
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #3 on: 02 July 2015, 09:48:32 »
Interesting look at a design that has way too many variants at this point :)

I did notice something, which I'm surprised didn't register in the earlier articles.

So even if you don't have other c3 units on the field (such as from rolling on a RT or something), you still pay for the c3 cost?

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11054
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #4 on: 02 July 2015, 09:54:45 »
In Alpha Strike, yes.  The c3 cost is in the base PV of the unit, so you'll pay for it no matter what.
Same with TAG, NARC and an other special.
C3 isn't as expensive in Alpha Strike, as it is in Total Warfare.  But it's 2 PV on the 8D.  TAG's 0.5 PV, and NARC's 0.5-1 are really easy to ignore.
« Last Edit: 02 July 2015, 10:27:02 by nckestrel »
Alpha Strike Introduction resources
Left of Center blog - Tukayyid Expanded Random Unit Tables, Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40909
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #5 on: 02 July 2015, 10:07:24 »
Damn, going straight for the 'Hammer on your first of these articles? Talk about jumping into the deep end! O0

I'm surprised how low unimpressive the 8K's guns are in this.  Heavy PPCs don't do as much damage i guess in this than others.

A lot of units gained when converted to AS, and a lot lost. Mechs like the WHM-6K didn't lose per se, but they have been bumped down the relative ladder a few rungs.It's prized because while doing 30 damage at range is actually kinda average for a modern heavy bruiser, a mech that concentrates that damage into a couple big wallops is to be feared -  most heavies must use numbers of smaller weapons or cluster weapons to achieve this, so individual armor locations are likely to last longer than under the heavy peepers of a -6K. Then there's the ever-present threat(real and psychological) of headshots.

The simplification of Alpha Strike removes those advantages. Because everyone does their damage in one lump, guns like gauss rifles, heavy PPCs, and large ACs lose much of their secondary luster. The Warhammer-6K didn't lose any damage when converted to Alpha Strike, it's just that all the Archers and Bandersnatches of the game were brought up to the same level.

So even if you don't have other c3 units on the field (such as from rolling on a RT or something), you still pay for the c3 cost?

Yes. BV and PV take opposite approaches to C3. BV assumes no network, and so doesn't charge you anything on the individual units, but you must pay during force creation to put the network together. PV assumes there will always be a network, so charges you at the individual unit level, but you don't pay anything extra when assembling the force into actual nets. The upside to this approach is that force creation is much easier(among others, my group avoided C3 like the plague until PV came along), but you can find yourself slightly overcharged if you take a C3-capable unit without a network. In the case of the Warhammer-8D, it's costing you two points to have that C3 module with no network. It's up to individual player's tastes if they can accept that cost, or if it's too much. Me, I'm fine with it for a couple units, but probably not a whole force of empty slaves.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11054
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #6 on: 02 July 2015, 10:14:07 »
Hmm.  The C3S and MHQ1 together are only 2 PV, on the 8K.  I definetely don't mind that. 
Alpha Strike Introduction resources
Left of Center blog - Tukayyid Expanded Random Unit Tables, Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets

Tai Dai Cultist

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7127
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #7 on: 02 July 2015, 10:23:56 »
I've always thought C3 giving collateral MHQ was a brilliant move.  If you end up with an unused network piece, you still get a booby prize for having it.

I agree that Alpha Strike is definitely ahead of CBT in making C3 usable.

For that matter it's ahead of CBT in all sorts of manners of playability... but that's a discussion for other threads.

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40909
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #8 on: 02 July 2015, 10:36:40 »
Yeah, I do love that you can take advantage of the crazy-advanced data collection suite that is a C3 slave, even without a network. Definitely mitigates the sting of the points cost in all but the most extreme circumstances.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

iamfanboy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1980
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #9 on: 02 July 2015, 14:16:05 »
The sheer variety of good WHM's is why I am honestly not sure if I'm going to buy an Alpha Strike Lance or the Robotech boxed set with Excaliburs with my game money this month. While I do have two WHMs already, one is a lousy repro that I got as a birthday present and would be GLAD to replace. On the other hand, my merc force needs some units to fill its Recon lance... and I really freaking hate the sprues of the Robotech game.

The -5L is probably my favorite for its off-beatness, but probably isn't overall the best. Still, there's like 6 gems in the WHM family, with only a couple of truly terrible designs (-6L, why??).

EDIT: I'm also revamping my Shadowhawk post to emulate this one's style. I like it, a lot.


As a side note, I've come up with a good, in-universe explanation for new players as to why the Introductory Boxed Set, the Alpha Strike lances, and my own OpFors include so many repeated designs (Cyclopses, Stingers, etcetera), that someone might find useful when introducing new players: namely, that when the Star League fell, all of the 'common' designs were produced at SL factories which were seized in the pre SW1 binge and spread across all five Houses because of that. I mean, yes, it's no great flash of insight, but it gives another glimpse into the in-universe history that people love to hear.

Or maybe people like hearing me talk. I dunno.

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 12078
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #10 on: 02 July 2015, 14:47:54 »
one thing to keep in mind with the Capellan stealth models is that, in both AS and BT, the Cappies don't seem to have long range duels in mind doctrine wise when they designed most of their mechs. instead, that stealth armor seems to exist to make the mech harder to hit as it closes to medium/short range to unleash hell. this seems to carry through most of their stealth designs.

does this make the best use of the tech? probably not. but it does give them a fairly interesting dynamic.

Karasu

  • Mecharcheologist by appointment
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 837
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #11 on: 02 July 2015, 15:20:00 »
You also seem to have missed the 11T.
The most interesting thing which it does is to add half a point of IF and some jumping.  Other than that it's pretty close to the original.

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11054
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #12 on: 02 July 2015, 15:20:39 »
True, and there are strategic reasons as well. 

Thoughts on house rule for Stealth.  Toggle on/off at the end of the Emd phase (choice doesn't affect heat this turn).
If you start the end phase with STL off, you build up one less heat using OV?
Alpha Strike Introduction resources
Left of Center blog - Tukayyid Expanded Random Unit Tables, Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets

Scotty

  • Alpha Strike Guru by appointment to the FWLM
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13724
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #13 on: 02 July 2015, 15:29:49 »
I was about to charge in here and say definitely not, but the PV costs would essentially be the same (STL special adds 3.4 PV to the defensive PV, having an extra free damage at short and medium with one less OV would be 2.5 PV.  After rounding, the difference is exactly 0.5 PV).  I'd still say no, because it introduces a flexibility not accounted for in the PV system, but it's an interesting idea.
Catalyst Demo Agent #679

Kansas City players, or people who are just passing through the area, come join us at the Geekery just off Shawnee Mission Parkway for BattleTech!  Current days are Tuesdays in the afternoon and evening.  I can't make every single week, but odds are pretty good that somebody will be there.

Dohon

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • Beware the bear!
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #14 on: 04 July 2015, 05:13:04 »
Thanks for the write-up, nckestrel! Very informative and with the crazy number of Whammie loadouts ... A daunting task, it must have been. :)

Any chance you could also post your thoughts on the Warhammer WHM-11T and the Warhammer WHM-6K (Yorinaga)?

Trailblazer

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 648
    • Excaliburs Saga Campaign for MegaMek
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #15 on: 12 July 2015, 13:48:22 »
On the one hand, this is a really great, detailed article about the capabilities of each Warhammer variant in AS.

On the other hand, it largely avoids the question that will probably be at the top of every AS player's mind: which variants are good deals given their PV?

Do people have thoughts about that question?

Scotty

  • Alpha Strike Guru by appointment to the FWLM
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13724
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #16 on: 12 July 2015, 13:55:07 »
In large part, PV tells you what a good deal is.  You pay for capability and nothing else in Alpha Strike.  The game does not care in the slightest whatsoever whether you have five large lasers or eight medium lasers, it only cares that you do five points of short and medium range damage.  This lets it cost units based on what they deliver, not what they promise.  Whether something is a good deal hinges largely on your play style.
Catalyst Demo Agent #679

Kansas City players, or people who are just passing through the area, come join us at the Geekery just off Shawnee Mission Parkway for BattleTech!  Current days are Tuesdays in the afternoon and evening.  I can't make every single week, but odds are pretty good that somebody will be there.

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11054
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #17 on: 12 July 2015, 14:04:36 »
Warhammers in general are pretty standard.  So they are going to be a fairly typical PV cost.  There's no big surprises.  There's just whether or not they can do what what you are asking the to do (formation type).
Alpha Strike Introduction resources
Left of Center blog - Tukayyid Expanded Random Unit Tables, Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25163
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #18 on: 12 July 2015, 14:33:52 »
Not to nick pick, but i just notices that Warhammer 6Rk is missing it's image.   Is that errant?
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Auren

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 892
  • Well.
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #19 on: 12 July 2015, 14:36:01 »
No. Its a special Alpha Strike mech, so no images allowed, I believe.

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11054
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #20 on: 12 July 2015, 15:14:06 »
It should have the Unseen silhouette.
Alpha Strike Introduction resources
Left of Center blog - Tukayyid Expanded Random Unit Tables, Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets

Trailblazer

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 648
    • Excaliburs Saga Campaign for MegaMek
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #21 on: 13 July 2015, 11:22:31 »
In large part, PV tells you what a good deal is.  You pay for capability and nothing else in Alpha Strike.  The game does not care in the slightest whatsoever whether you have five large lasers or eight medium lasers, it only cares that you do five points of short and medium range damage.  This lets it cost units based on what they deliver, not what they promise.  Whether something is a good deal hinges largely on your play style.

I see the point, but overall I disagree. PV is a very imperfect measure of overall unit quality, because certain combinations of abilities synchronize better than others.

For example, let's suppose a unit's damage profile is 8/1/0.  If it has move 20", this damage profile is much more valuable than if it has move 6".  It's also much more valuable if the unit has more armor/structure, so that it can actually survive hits and get into attack range.

To give an exaggerated example, a unit with M 6", Damage 8/1/0, Arm/Str 1/1 will have a reasonably high PV despite being totally worthless except in very weird terrain situations.

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11054
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #22 on: 13 July 2015, 11:39:15 »
Well, there's no Warhammer remotely like that..
Alpha Strike Introduction resources
Left of Center blog - Tukayyid Expanded Random Unit Tables, Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets

Scotty

  • Alpha Strike Guru by appointment to the FWLM
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13724
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #23 on: 13 July 2015, 11:53:24 »
I see the point, but overall I disagree. PV is a very imperfect measure of overall unit quality, because certain combinations of abilities synchronize better than others.

For example, let's suppose a unit's damage profile is 8/1/0.  If it has move 20", this damage profile is much more valuable than if it has move 6".  It's also much more valuable if the unit has more armor/structure, so that it can actually survive hits and get into attack range.

To give an exaggerated example, a unit with M 6", Damage 8/1/0, Arm/Str 1/1 will have a reasonably high PV despite being totally worthless except in very weird terrain situations.

Actually, you'd be wrong in most of those cases!  Armor and Structure may not take attack damage into account, but they do take movement modifiers into account (the DIR step in PV calculation).  Damage is similarly weighted toward medium range specifically because that's where it's arguably most useful, rather than weighted heavily at short or long range where damage is less frequently in a position to be applied or less frequently able to hit, respectively.  A unit with MV 6", damage 8/1/0, and Armor/Structure 1/1 (assuming it's a Medium 'Mech, because you can reasonably do that with small lasers or machine guns) will have a PV of 15.  Unsurprisingly, that makes it the cheapest unit of any that have been shown around on these articles, and actually cheaper than some infantry units.  I'd not call 15 PV reasonably high at all.  It'd also make a damn fine Ambusher for a hidden units scenario.

EDIT: I'm not trying to be mean here, but you can try to search for examples of that one edge case where the PV is noticeably too high to justify a certain collection of deliberately contrasting and contradicting playstyles, but you'll spend far too much effort doing it, and you'll only prove that you found one bad example.  PV is a fantastic way to gauge a unit's effectiveness.  It is not like BV or BV2.

EDIT II: Rounding does not work that way.  It's actually lower than I initially said.  Fixed.
« Last Edit: 13 July 2015, 12:04:24 by Scotty »
Catalyst Demo Agent #679

Kansas City players, or people who are just passing through the area, come join us at the Geekery just off Shawnee Mission Parkway for BattleTech!  Current days are Tuesdays in the afternoon and evening.  I can't make every single week, but odds are pretty good that somebody will be there.

iamfanboy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1980
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #24 on: 13 July 2015, 12:05:58 »
I see the point, but overall I disagree. PV is a very imperfect measure of overall unit quality, because certain combinations of abilities synchronize better than others.
Or to give an example from this very list, the WHM-4L. Yes, it has M4, but that L2 means that it can't utilize its STL to the fullest by keeping at Long range. Especially when you take into consideration the Skill upgrade brackets, some variants spring out as a better deal than others.

I disagree with your assertion that PV isn't a good measure of quality, though, because you do get exactly what you pay for, and the units which have wildly mismatched statlines as in your example are extremely rare. It's not absolutely perfect, but perfection isn't even an attribute of the Divine, and it works better for Alpha Strike than BV2.0 does for CBT. 

My (personal) judgement is that the WHM-7A is the best 'traditional' Warhammer, with high armor/structure, CASE to capitalize on that structure, and high damage with OV1 to peak it up. The WHM-6R/6K is an okay budget unit because it sits in the 6 PV/+1 Skill bracket with a reasonable statline. The WHM-6Rk is the best skirmisher because it keeps that WHM damage line and just barely squeaks into the 7PV/+1 Skill, though the -5L is not bad either for that HT 1/1. The -8D2 is the best C3 unit as it has a peak 5 damage at Medium range, though none of them are BAD and the -8K is what's sitting in my C3 company atm.

But really, none of the WHMs are outright bad, and even the really quirky ones, like the -8T, I could see using in specialized situations. Okay, probably not the -8T as it only breaks the 3 damage limit with OV, but still, none of 'em are outright bad.


And as an aside, in CBT the Boosted Slaves/Boosted Masters can network with non-Boosted, so in theory the AS versions will work the same. Still waiting for a direct ruling on that, though.

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11054
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #25 on: 13 July 2015, 12:07:55 »
And as an aside, in CBT the Boosted Slaves/Boosted Masters can network with non-Boosted, so in theory the AS versions will work the same. Still waiting for a direct ruling on that, though.

sorry, working on some questions on how it works for CBT, we seem to have some disagreement.
Alpha Strike Introduction resources
Left of Center blog - Tukayyid Expanded Random Unit Tables, Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets

iamfanboy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1980
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #26 on: 13 July 2015, 12:26:20 »
sorry, working on some questions on how it works for CBT, we seem to have some disagreement.
Which is one reason I've held off on adding a section on Boosted System to my Alpha Strike C3 guide, because I haven't had a firm answer yet.

That, and I'm not sure if the guide itself should be moved here to the Fan Articles forum, so I haven't wanted to add more posts til that move happens.

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11054
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #27 on: 13 July 2015, 12:28:00 »
WHM-11T added to article.

the WHM-6K (Yorinaga) is just a wHM-6K.  it's stock, there's nothing custom on it.
Alpha Strike Introduction resources
Left of Center blog - Tukayyid Expanded Random Unit Tables, Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 12078
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #28 on: 13 July 2015, 12:32:57 »
WHM-11T added to article.

the WHM-6K (Yorinaga) is just a wHM-6K.  it's stock, there's nothing custom on it.
Irony is that when yorinaga recounts the battle in the stack pole novel, the weapons he describes firing at Morgan kill match the load out of the -6R and not the -6K...

Scotty

  • Alpha Strike Guru by appointment to the FWLM
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13724
Re: Alpha Strike 'Mech of the Week - WHM-** Warhammer
« Reply #29 on: 13 July 2015, 12:44:05 »
Or to give an example from this very list, the WHM-4L. Yes, it has M4, but that L2 means that it can't utilize its STL to the fullest by keeping at Long range. Especially when you take into consideration the Skill upgrade brackets, some variants spring out as a better deal than others.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned it before in this thread, but you pay exactly 3.4 points for that STL special on the -4L.  Not sure how that factors into the rounding without determining PV from the ground up, but at maximum you're paying 4 points for the ability to near guarantee a miss as you close to Medium Range.  If you dodge a single 3 damage attack with the added bonus, you have paid for your STL special in the PV calculus as it pertains to armor valuation in the DIR (including adjustment for TMM).  You don't have to use STL to the fullest in order to get your points back on it.  Due to the generally smaller number of modifiers to TNs and the standardized range bands in general, STL is arguably a 'better deal' in Alpha Strike regardless of utilization than it ever was in standard BT.
Catalyst Demo Agent #679

Kansas City players, or people who are just passing through the area, come join us at the Geekery just off Shawnee Mission Parkway for BattleTech!  Current days are Tuesdays in the afternoon and evening.  I can't make every single week, but odds are pretty good that somebody will be there.

 

Register