VotW: Pollux ADA Heavy Tank

[JadeHellbringer]

(Quick note: The original article intended for this week proved to be a bit tougher than expected, and wasn't ready in time. Apologies- hopefully this will suffice in its place. I've had a few requests for the Zugvogel, and we WILL cover it as soon as I can get things finished for it, hopefully next week!)

Airpower is a pain in the ass, isn't it? A squadron of aerospace fighters can make even the best plan of action come apart, and leave the field covered in ruined Mechs. Obviously the best way to deal with that problem is your own aerospace forces, but what if you don't have any handy? You may have lost control of the skies to the enemy, or no air support is available at the moment- weather might be keeping your flyboys from helping, or enemy AA. So sometimes you have to find a way to tell enemy birds where to stuff it. Such was the problem facing the SLDF (the first one) in the years leading up to that military's harshest test. A contractor already hard at work on static defense systems was asked to put their ideas on a mobile chassis, and... the Pollux was born.

Based on SDS turrets and compacted down to fit on a tank frame, the Pollux caused a bit of a stir when it released. The idea was to provide defense for worlds that felt a tad vulnerable- after all, many core worlds were defended by the SDS alone, with little to defend them if that system failed- an unthinkable problem, of course, but still- what if? The Pollux was the 'plan B' idea for these worlds' garrisons. But it turned out that few were making it where they were needed to go, and instead many Pollux units were being instead squirreled away by the massive SLDF instead. This was reversed when brought to light eventually, but the incident caused friction between planetary governments and the military for some time.

And it's not hard to see why such a tug-of-war existed, because if you're going to defend against enemy planes, you've found your crown jewel.

We start as always by opening the hood. A 225 fusion engine isn't going to move the Pollux anywhere quickly, a stately 3/5 movement curve that doesn't really inspire one to speechlessness for sure. It's enough to pace an assault unit, but more importantly as an air defense unit it allows the Pollux to move between sites it needs to guard with the bare minimum of speed to do so (well, bare realistic minimum, we DID have the Mars last week to prove that 'bare minimum' can mean worse than this). It doesn't need to be overly quick to do its job- the fusion engine is a bit surprising, but useful for sure. One can't help but wonder how many old Pollux tanks had their engines ripped out for Mech use as society collapsed, and remain abandoned in scrapyards across the Inner Sphere.

As with the engine, we see only a modest coating of armor- enough to do the job, not enough to make anyone mistake the Pollux for a real MBT. A mere six tons of armor coat the beast- granted, it's ferro-fibrous, but still, that's pretty anemic coverage for a tank half this size. If that armor is being tested, you're in trouble. The AC-20 test reveals a tank that can withstand the hit in most locations once, but can't take anything else there before going internal- 24 points cover the front, sides, and turret, while a mere (and alarming) 11 points cover the rear. Defend your Pollux, because if it has to take a few hits you're not getting it back after the battle.

The original SDS gun mount consisted of two powerful weapons to make flying foes miserable. The combo was retained on the Pollux, starting with a Sniper artillery piece. This massive weapon is supplied with 30 rounds, but most of the time it was all flak rounds carried. This provides a good ranged attack with a wide area of effect, and is just as handy at pummeling ground troops (with standard ammo) as it is at swatting planes from the skies. In closer, the Pollux can switch to that king of AA guns, the LB-10X. Also supplied with 30 rounds (almost always cluster shots), this gun needs no introduction to fans of this column- it is the premiere way to tell an enemy aircraft or vehicle 'I hate you'. Combining the two is sicka nd wrong, and you should feel bad for enemy pilots who encounter a Pollux- let alone a battery of them! A medium laser in the turret provides a little extra muscle, while a small pulse laser is mounted forward in the event infantry rear their ugly heads.

Using a Pollux is simple- and much like last week's Mars. Find a position that you don't really plan to move from for the duration of the battle, and every time enemy aircraft (or ground troops too!) make an appearance, make them regret ever challenging your army. NEVER deploy a Pollux alone- always have untis to help defend this crown jewel of your force. The author suggests a muscular short-range brawler like a Demolisher or Hunchback to keep the enemy honest, and infantry are pretty helpful as well. Park the Pollux near where the enemy needs to go- if they want control of a refinery, park the Pollux and dare enemy planes to support the ground assault... then make them bleed if they're brave enough to do it.

The Pollux is likely extinct fairly soon after the Succession Wars get under way- but any that have somehow survived to the modern era are fragile, slow, and incredibly useful to whomever might have one. Get to it- see what you think and respond here with your thoughts.

[TigerShark]

I've used it extensively. By far, it is the best artillery vehicle until you get to the dual-Arrow-IV monsters fielded by the Clans, as well as the 3050-era stuff from the Inner Sphere. The LB-X gun really helps in Anti-Aircraft duty and makes a cluster of troops nigh-invincible to penetration by VTOLs and fast movers. The only problem is when you attack it from multiple angles, since the Sniper and LB-10X are on the same turret. You CAN blind it, if it's left without an escort, and that's its biggest flaw.

[Wrangler]

I like this thing, if your in campaign it would be handy handle air strikes your defending unit.  Too bad there no reproduction or similar vehicle that could do it.   I suppose the Paladin Defense System aka the Dark Age superheavy Davion themed Combat vehicle with double Long Toms could play a role in it.   I'd imagine that Pollux would be wee more affordable to merc units or easier produce to for House.

I could easily see a Dark Age version with Harden Armor, to help it weather incoming fire from airborne threats.

Thanks for being able write this up for us, Jadehellbringer.  Been while waiting for this come and be reviewed it was worth it.  O0

[Colt Ward]

Its already slow, is Hardened really a benefit or would it be better with HFF?  If during the 3140s it was to be put back into production who might do it?  Which faction might benefit from it the most?  Also, unless I missed it I did not see the weight of the design?

So, with the talk of ones sitting in scrapyards with engines and likely armor removed . . . where might we find it?  Would any have survived to the SLDF liberation of Terra?  Gone on the Exodus?

Sitting out on Niops?

[TigerShark]

I'd assume the Clans either had copies or the knowledge of how to make them. So "extinct" isn't really the right word for SLDF designs. "Sitting on a hard drive somplace" probably.

[Fallen_Raven]

I could see one of these parked in the middle of an infantry Field Gun battery for dedicated AA. Neither one has the speed to move, and both work well guarding strategic locations like choke points and installations. As a bonus, the infantry can get reloads from the same truck that re-supplys the Pollux!

[UnLimiTeD]

A neat vehicle, and one I've admittedly never seen on a battlefield.
If it was to defend core worlds, and they were indeed scrapped for their engines, I would expect the Republic to have a few stores nowadays, or whoever owns those worlds right now.
If you replace the engine anyways, might as well for for a 300XL.

How does the Sniper compare to ADA missiles?

[Redshirt]

How does the Sniper compare to ADA missiles?

I have not really messed around with aerospace (and by extension flak ammo) that much, but my impression is that while flak rounds don't do that much damage against armor, they are absolute murder against the flight control surfaces of fighters or dropships (I believe that if a fighter or dropship his hit by a weapon in atmosphere, it has to make a control surface [piloting skill] roll. If the roll fails, the fighter or dropship loses control and could potentially crash - but I will cede to the aerospace experts on the specifics).

Needless to say I would hate to be the Division/Brigade/Regiment Commander that would have to land in an LZ covered by Polluxes...

[glitterboy2098]

how much speed would you lose switching to an ICE engine to replace those 225's?  Assuming they'd pull the lasers at the same time.

Could there have been an early succession wars retrofit with an ICE and maybe a standard AC10?

[TigerShark]

I have not really messed around with aerospace (and by extension flak ammo) that much, but my impression is that while flak rounds don't do that much damage against armor, they are absolute murder against the flight control surfaces of fighters or dropships (I believe that if a fighter or dropship his hit by a weapon in atmosphere, it has to make a control surface [piloting skill] roll. If the roll fails, the fighter or dropship loses control and could potentially crash - but I will cede to the aerospace experts on the specifics).

Needless to say I would hate to be the Division/Brigade/Regiment Commander that would have to land in an LZ covered by Polluxes...

Sort of, but no Aero player I know prefers the Total Warfare "pink & die" rules. StratOps is much more robust and makes sense for the tremendous amount of BV you spend on a single fighter. i.e.: You have a 4,000 BV Clan fighter where 1 LB-X pellet could kill it..? Not much of a game.

[Colt Ward]

You could probably find a SW Pollux or early SW anyway . . . I would say the instead of a AC/10 gets yanked as well for LRM5 banks with flak ammo or maybe a pair of AC/2s which could be close.  Either way I would have the turret 'overweight' due to it being a field mod.

[Weirdo]

Minor note: There is no such thing as flak ammo for the Sniper. When that gun is used as a flyswatter, it uses regular HE rounds to do so.

That being said, I'd love to play a 'kill/preserve the AA' scenario centered on these things. Three Polluxes, one Von Luckner or somesuch, and a few infantry platoons as forward pickets/spotters. Not an invincible group by any means, but it seems like whatever the other side brings, the fight would be fun and challenging. O0

[Redshirt]

Minor note: There is no such thing as flak ammo for the Sniper. When that gun is used as a flyswatter, it uses regular HE rounds to do so.

Ah. Ok, Thank You!  And I would still hate to be the Dropship that has to land in an LZ covered by one of more of those...

[worktroll]

Units of three Partisans (either style) around a Pollux would be sweet.

[TigerShark]

Minor note: There is no such thing as flak ammo for the Sniper. When that gun is used as a flyswatter, it uses regular HE rounds to do so.

That being said, I'd love to play a 'kill/preserve the AA' scenario centered on these things. Three Polluxes, one Von Luckner or somesuch, and a few infantry platoons as forward pickets/spotters. Not an invincible group by any means, but it seems like whatever the other side brings, the fight would be fun and challenging. O0

I had to ask a question for clarification on the boards. Unsure of how to calculate the Arty Flak. I was doing it as:

[Gunnery] + 4 [Direct Fire] + 3 [Flak] + X [Altitude Modifier]

...But the text is ambiguous as to whether that Direct Fire +4 is only for ground attacks or if it is added to Flak / Air attacks as well. If not, then the Pollux is even more nasty.

[sillybrit]

You appear to have missed some errata:

Flak (p. 185)
Replace the first paragraph with the following:
“Players can use an artillery unit located on the playing area (any ordnance on the Artillery Ordnance Table with an “F” Damage Type) to fire directly at airborne ground units (VTOL Vehicles, WiGEs and units expending VTOL MPs such as infantry) as well as airborne aerospace units. The player must declare that he is firing at the unit, and must have a valid line of sight to the target unit. Resolve the attack as normal for an artillery direct-fire attack, per the rules in Direct-Fire Artillery, at left (if the target is an airborne aerospace unit, the minimum number of hexes does not apply).
Apply a +3 to-hit modifier. Ignore the regular modifiers for using Type “F” weapons or making a direct-fire attack; the only other modifiers applied are for the firing unit’s movement and current damage, as well as woods/jungle, if any are intervening. Additionally, if firing at an airborne aerospace unit on a Low-Altitude Map, apply a +1 modifier for each 3 altitudes above the first 3; i.e. 1-3 altitudes provide no modifier, 4-6 altitudes provide a +1 modifier, 7-9 altitudes provide a +2 modifier and Altitude 10 provides a +3 modifier. Flak shots from artillery cannot be made into any hex row beyond Ground on the High-Altitude Map.”

So it's Gunnery +3 + Altitude Modifier + Attacker Movement Modifier + Attacker Damage Modifier + Intervening Terrain (Jungle/Woods).

[beachhead1985]

I think the Pollux is really cool! I'd love to see a mini of it!

[SCC]

You appear to have missed some errata:

Flak (p. 185)
Replace the first paragraph with the following:
“Players can use an artillery unit located on the playing area (any ordnance on the Artillery Ordnance Table with an “F” Damage Type) to fire directly at airborne ground units (VTOL Vehicles, WiGEs and units expending VTOL MPs such as infantry) as well as airborne aerospace units. The player must declare that he is firing at the unit, and must have a valid line of sight to the target unit. Resolve the attack as normal for an artillery direct-fire attack, per the rules in Direct-Fire Artillery, at left (if the target is an airborne aerospace unit, the minimum number of hexes does not apply).
Apply a +3 to-hit modifier. Ignore the regular modifiers for using Type “F” weapons or making a direct-fire attack; the only other modifiers applied are for the firing unit’s movement and current damage, as well as woods/jungle, if any are intervening. Additionally, if firing at an airborne aerospace unit on a Low-Altitude Map, apply a +1 modifier for each 3 altitudes above the first 3; i.e. 1-3 altitudes provide no modifier, 4-6 altitudes provide a +1 modifier, 7-9 altitudes provide a +2 modifier and Altitude 10 provides a +3 modifier. Flak shots from artillery cannot be made into any hex row beyond Ground on the High-Altitude Map.”

So it's Gunnery +3 + Altitude Modifier + Attacker Movement Modifier + Attacker Damage Modifier + Intervening Terrain (Jungle/Woods).

The Attacker Damage Modifier, that's not something special to arty, right? It's actuator damage or whatever? Because I can't find it in TacOps.

And do DFA'ing 'Mechs count as airborne for Flak attacks?

[Weirdo]

In order:

Correct

While I'm not 100%, I highly doubt it.

[glitterboy2098]

WIGE's and airmech mode LAM's do though, i beleive.

[Weirdo]

That is correct.

[TigerShark]

You appear to have missed some errata:

Flak (p. 185)
Replace the first paragraph with the following:
“Players can use an artillery unit located on the playing area (any ordnance on the Artillery Ordnance Table with an “F” Damage Type) to fire directly at airborne ground units (VTOL Vehicles, WiGEs and units expending VTOL MPs such as infantry) as well as airborne aerospace units. The player must declare that he is firing at the unit, and must have a valid line of sight to the target unit. Resolve the attack as normal for an artillery direct-fire attack, per the rules in Direct-Fire Artillery, at left (if the target is an airborne aerospace unit, the minimum number of hexes does not apply).
Apply a +3 to-hit modifier. Ignore the regular modifiers for using Type “F” weapons or making a direct-fire attack; the only other modifiers applied are for the firing unit’s movement and current damage, as well as woods/jungle, if any are intervening. Additionally, if firing at an airborne aerospace unit on a Low-Altitude Map, apply a +1 modifier for each 3 altitudes above the first 3; i.e. 1-3 altitudes provide no modifier, 4-6 altitudes provide a +1 modifier, 7-9 altitudes provide a +2 modifier and Altitude 10 provides a +3 modifier. Flak shots from artillery cannot be made into any hex row beyond Ground on the High-Altitude Map.”

So it's Gunnery +3 + Altitude Modifier + Attacker Movement Modifier + Attacker Damage Modifier + Intervening Terrain (Jungle/Woods).

Yes, I did and YOU'RE AWESOME for posting it. :) Coded and fixed.

[Nebfer]

So for Artillery unit in a airbase firing at Aerospace fighters at Row 10 (~5,000 to ~18,000m) with a velocity of 12

One only needed the "attack modifier" of +3, Firing units gunnery skill, Altitude modifier of target, Firing units movement modifiers, modifiers for any of said units components that could be damaged at the time (I.e. weapons, sensors, ect), and terrain effects (such as intervening trees).

In this case assuming a regular gunner and a undamaged stationary unit the to hit would be 10+ (gunnery +4, attack mod +3 & altitude of target +3 = 10 )?
 

[Weirdo]

Your math is correct. The only niggle is that ground units do not have LOS to aeros flying at Altitude 10, so that particular direct-fire shot may not be possible.

[TigerShark]

Your math is correct. The only niggle is that ground units do not have LOS to aeros flying at Altitude 10, so that particular direct-fire shot may not be possible.

I believe the ceiling is 8, no?

[mbear]

What about using the Pollux as an artillery vehicle? I realize it's probably going to be less effective in the role, but it seems to me that a Pollux could be used where I'd use a Rommel Howitzer, Aithon, or Phalanx Support Tank.

If I'm a merc, having a Pollux that can fill dual roles (or at least provide backup to other dedicated elements) would be a no-brainer.

[Weirdo]

It'd make a good SPG(and your battery would easily have AA defense covered), but it's a bit thin-skinned for my tastes to serve as an assault gun. I'd want such a unit to either be tougher(Rommel or Aithon), or smaller/cheaper(Phalanx) so it can survive heavy fire, or live by dint of looking less important than everyone else. The Pollux is neither tough, nor 'weak' enough to justify ignoring.

[JadeHellbringer]

Worth remembering as well is that when it comes to artillery, Snipers are discouragingly short-ranged. So if you're going to be this thin-skinned, you don't want to be near the front lines. A small group of harassing hovercraft or light headhunter Mechs sneaking into your backfield will giggle maniacally at finding your Pollux battery, even with the LB-10X.

(Not that there's a lot of really well-protected artillery units out there- this is hardly a situation unique to the Pollux. But it's still worth remembering.)

[Weirdo]

What about an even mix of Polluxes and Marksmen? The lighter tank's armor is just as bad overall, but it at least has that front it can point at the enemy, and the large laser can make light strikers hang back a bit, hopefully giving the Pollux's clustergun time to find something juicy.

[Paul]

While I can't say so with much authority, I'd presume the weak armor is a major problem. It seems likely you'll need to survive at least 1 pass from the fighters you're shooting at, presuming equivalent numbers. IE 6 fighters vs 6 Pollux', I have to wonder if it's probable if the Pollux can kill the fighters fast enough on sheer damage alone.

How I visualize it:
Pass 1: fighters pair up and kill 3 Pollux. The ground battery wastes one fighter convincingly, and gets lucky on a second.
Pass 2: Pairing up again, 2 Pollux die. Another batch of luck brings a third fighter down.
Pass 3: The last Pollux dies.

And that's an the assumption that they'll only hit with a couple of their guns each turn; they can't really afford those misses, while most fighters can afford to miss with a couple of large lasers or PPCs, and still get the kill.


On the above assumption, I'd say drop the LBX to get the armor you need.

I'd be happy to hear someone else's thoughts on that: am I looking at this wrong?

Paul