Register Register

Author Topic: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal  (Read 7167 times)

Trace Coburn

  • Starfighter Analyst
  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4077
  • За родину и свободу!
Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« on: 23 April 2011, 00:00:45 »
Vandal - 30t, TRO3055
Originally posted 29 Mar. 2006.

  All proposed fan-variants should be posted in the corresponding “FotW Workshop” thread.


  I take one look at the Vandal’s stats, and I have an image of a conversation which tracks eerily well with one of the key points of the fluff:
  Commander: “You moronic frakking freebirth!  Of all the idiotic stunts you could have pulled!  Taking the Khan’s personal souped-up Visigoth on a joy-ride and wrapping it around an asteroid was so lame-brained that I could never have imagined even YOU would do it!  This calls for the strictest disciplinary action possible!  Point Commander Bonehead -”
  Pilot: - please have me shot, please have me shot, please have me shot -
  Commander: “- I am assigning you to fly a Vandal!”
  Pilot: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

  The fluff tells that even the threat of Vandal duty is what Clan commanders do to pilots who have really pissed them off but either aren’t worth the bother of killing or might yet, maybe, have a gram of utility sometime in the indeterminant future if they rectify their attitude.  Certainly the ship’s utility is very narrow - so narrow, by the fluff, that it’s usually restricted to freebirth warriors who ‘don’t deserve the honour of combat’, so that ‘more useful’ warriors (read: the vatjobs) can fly real ships.

  When you look at a Vandal’s stat-line, the first thought into your head is “Speeeeeeeeeed demon!”  A 30-ton spaceframe wrapped around a 360XLFE turns out at 14/21 - THE fastest canon fighter in the skies, bar none - Vandals can get in, take a peek, and get out before their pilots can even say “My God - I’m in the wrong airspace!”  Their three-ton standard fuel load is nothing too unusual for Clan lights, but it’s still pretty short-legged (unless you’ve got a DropShip on the other side of the objective, so the pilot can just go straight through, burn until he does dead-stick, and let the pick-up ship on the other side catch him).
  There isn’t much else you can say about the spaceframe, though, because the pinch that colossal engine puts on internal space cuts out most of the space you could use for anything else.  The armour is a bare 4.5 tons of ferro-aluminium, 29/20/17, so the best thing you can say about it is that it’s not a one-shot kill for Clan ordnance (which is, I’m well aware, very much not my most ringing endorsement ever :D).  Pod-space is even more pathetic: just three tons.  With so little space, you’re pretty much obliged to use it as a fast-recon platform - it certainly doesn’t have the oomph for much else.  ::)

  Vandal Prime is realistic enough to play to that: it adds on another ton of fuel for added recon range, then drops an Active Probe into the nose for sniffing out enemy forces and tacks on a pair of ERSLs so the pilot can at least pretend he has a self-defence capability.  Some truly desperate pilots will use these weapons for strafing, so that they can delude themselves that they’re still fighter-jocks, but anything that’s worth the notice of a Clan pilot won’t be much more than annoyed by a pair of ERSLs.  Sorry, fellas - when you fly a Vandal Prime, like it or not you’re a trash-hauler.  DEAL WITH IT!  :P
  (It was pointed out in discussion of the Tatsu that, is taken as read, Tech Manual rules preclude OmniFighters from pod-mounting fuel.  If so, one has to wonder what this does for canon loadouts like the Vandal Prime.... ???)

  Vandal Alpha has delusions of adequacy as a super-fast light bomber (and to be fair, six tons of bombs arriving at 12/18 is a stone bitch to defence).  Mounting an MPL in the nose for actually meaningful self-defence capability and single ERSLs in overwing mounts to keep the pylons free for external ordnance, Alpha is used to hit command centres and other such ‘soft’ targets in lightning treetop raids.  With its short legs, though, you’d want to use smart-bombs to make the most of the single pass you’ll get before it’s ‘bingo’ time.

  Vandal Bravo wants to strafe the hell out of things, mounting twin ERSLs in the nose and each wing.  Best used for crit-seeking strafes or harrassment strikes, hitting the other guy from all angles and choosing different routes for each pass to keep him guessing, this is a loadout that offers mostly a great way to test your opponent’s ability to endure small yet constant annoyances.  :P

  Vandal Charlie is about the only config with firepower worth mentioning: a triple-mount of ERMLs in the nose.  Useable for interception and ground-support missions, but certainly not any commander’s first choice for either, Charlie does at least have decent Medium-range clout going for him.  In fact, this is about the only Vandal loadout with anti-’Ship firepower worth mentioning: a five-ship flight of the things (per StratOps squadron rules) packs a single bay that can yield up to 11 Capital damage in a pass, making it almost something of a ten-man T-missile system with good reattack capability.  (Remember that 14/21 speed?  How the frak do you stop something that fast?)

  Vandal Delta employs the new CSA-spawned ‘heavy’ lasers to give itself some real cojones: three HMLs, one in the nose and one in each wing.  Shorter-reaching but possessed of far more raw firepower than the Charlie, the Vandal-D flirts with actual usefulness as a weapons platform.  ::)  In the air-to-mud role, use this one to Strafe and tear holes in things, then bring in the Bravo loadouts to exploit the breaches.  ;)

  “How the frak do you stop this thing?” is a good question, really, leading us into our ‘defensive tactics’ heading.  The idea of catching or turning with a Vandal in anything but another Vandal is almost ludicrous - and pitting two Vandals head to head reminds me of the first WWI ‘dogfights’, where two opposing biplane pilots would bang away at each other with their sidearms... only the Vandal jocks would be doing it at 7g accelerations or better.  ::)
  So forget speed or agility: don’t even try to go out after them.  Wait for them to come to you - and wait with scads of heavy firepower at your disposal, so you can blow ’em away in one salvo and forget about ’em.  They’re not really worth the investment of full-blown OmniFighters, unless that’s all you brought along: use the Omnis for the meaningful stuff and smack down these pests with escorting (cheaper) stuff, like the venerable yet fearsome Xerxes, which can crush them with a single hit from just one of those godawful UAC/20s and/or snipe them down with their twin-mount ERLLs.


  [VARIANT PROPOSAL(S) REDACTED] All proposed fan-variants - including my own - belong in the corresponding “FotW Workshop” thread: http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,4942.0.html


  Be advised: the attached .txt transcript(s) of previous run(s) of this thread may contain numerous reader-proposals for variants.  I’ll try to change those out for ‘sanitised’ versions of those threads when I can, but I can’t promise it’ll be soon - that’s a lot of ground to cover.  ;)

Fallen_Raven

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3579
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #1 on: 23 April 2011, 00:17:33 »
The biggest thing going for this fighter is the joke. "They went to Plaid!"
Subtlety is for those who lack a bigger gun.

The Battletech Forums: The best friends you'll ever fire high-powered weaponry at.-JadeHellbringer


Jellico

  • Spatium Magister
  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4445
  • BattleMechs are the lords of the battlefield
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #2 on: 23 April 2011, 01:27:00 »
The Prime represents one of the extremes of electronic warfare. An active probe on a totally throw away platfrom. That said, it can Evade and still have the thrust points to set up sideways movement (more to-hits) no matter what the target does. With shootie allies around it can force difficult targeting decisions on the target.

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4516
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #3 on: 23 April 2011, 03:12:40 »
I'm not sure if the fuel comment was from your original post, or if its a modern one, but the mounting fuel using pod space was cleared up a while ago...though I don't know if it ever made it into errata.

Neufeld

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2539
  • Raven, Lyran, Horse, Capellan, Canopian, Bear
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #4 on: 23 April 2011, 03:25:45 »
I can get more Bashkirs than Vandals for my money, and the difference in stats is not all that great, so that makes the Vandal a bit of redundant.

"Real men and women do not need Terra"
-- Grendel Roberts
"
We will be used to subdue the Capellan Confederation. We will be used to bring the Free Worlds League to heel. We will be used to
hunt bandits and support corrupt rulers and to reinforce the evils of the Inner Sphere that drove our ancestors from it so long ago."
-- Elias Crichell

Trace Coburn

  • Starfighter Analyst
  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4077
  • За родину и свободу!
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #5 on: 23 April 2011, 05:23:19 »
I'm not sure if the fuel comment was from your original post, or if its a modern one,
  I added that during posting this afternoon, in mind of what was said Wednesday/Thursday after the Tatsu repost went up.

but the mounting fuel using pod space was cleared up a while ago...though I don't know if it ever made it into errata.
  I hope it has and someone can cite it unambiguously, but the commentary the other day suggests that it's still a little hazy for some folk (myself among them, given that I'd originally overlooked that particular passage in TM).  :-\

Maelwys

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4516
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #6 on: 23 April 2011, 18:32:51 »
Well, I don't know about unambiguously...Welshman's turn of phrase is quite..odd.

http://www.classicbattletech.com/forumarchive/index.php/topic,44526.msg1088139.html#msg1088139

Its later clarified by others in the thread.

http://www.classicbattletech.com/forumarchive/index.php/topic,36009.msg867048.html#msg867048

And that thread should just reinforce it.

I have to say, looking at the way its worded in TechManual, I'm not quite sure how whoever wrote it thought they were only talking about an Omni's minimum fuel load.

A. Lurker

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4641
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #7 on: 24 April 2011, 03:03:54 »
Hmmm, interesting. I'm not going to retract my related question on the Rules Q board (if only as a gentle reminder that those threads were in 2008 and any errata to that paragraph on TechManual p. 186 that may or may not have been intended still doesn't seem to have materialized), but I'm happy to consider those answers official barring anything suddenly saying otherwise coming along.

Of course...that does kind of mean that OmniFighters that simply don't carry any 'fixed' fuel at all are suddenly feasible, doesn't it? ;)

Moonsword

  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14633
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #8 on: 24 April 2011, 10:49:38 »
The speed demon's speed demon.  Frankly, this thing is past the point where being an OmniFighter gets you all that much other than easier replacement of the weapons package... which, given the fact that Vandal-swatting is probably a sport among some Clan pilots, may not be much of an issue.

iamfanboy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1978
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #9 on: 24 April 2011, 23:24:05 »
Well, this thing CAN carry what, 6 tons of fuel external while still moving at 12/18? Using a few Points of the C-config as long-range pickets could be interesting... you could intercept at huge ranges, have the speed to seriously mess them up, and THEN hit them with more serious firepower in the form of stronger omnifighters.

Just a thought. I dunno.

DragonKhan55

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 119
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #10 on: 24 April 2011, 23:38:43 »
Gentleman, I believe that we are looking at this thing the wrong way. The Vandal is simply the latest weapon in the Clan arsenal- it is really meant to be something akin to a teleoperated missile, except with better guidance, a little more armor, and a higher per-unit cost. Put the stats of the bugger into the context of a huge kamikaze drone....  ;)

Paladin1

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1437
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #11 on: 25 April 2011, 08:44:12 »
I'll say the same thing about the Vandal that I said about the Swift.  Pack it with Air-to-Air Missiles and let it act as a quick reaction stand-off platform.  You can't do much once the AAMs are gone, but you should be almost out of fuel anyway and needing to head back to base.

sandstorm

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1064
  • Slayers Clear the Way
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #12 on: 26 April 2011, 03:24:53 »
How much damage would a Vandal ramming at full speed do to a Dropship or Warship?

I suddenly 'see' a cluster or larger unit of Vandals going Robe-hunting en-massé during the Jihad. Might be brown robe week at WoB Navy when it starts...
Ex Dubio, Obscura
--------------------
"Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it."

Neufeld

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2539
  • Raven, Lyran, Horse, Capellan, Canopian, Bear
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #13 on: 26 April 2011, 07:02:16 »
How much damage would a Vandal ramming at full speed do to a Dropship or Warship?

Well, a Vandal has 240 fuel points, so assuming it spends them all accelerating it can reach a velocity of 240 hexes/tun on its own. That makes the collision occur under slow high speed rules. This gives a collision damage of 30 / 10 * 240 * 1.5 = 1080 damage

Still more damage can be done if launched from a dropship that is already on a high-speed interception course. If, for example, we manages to propel the Vandal on a relative velocity that reach the limit of fast high-speed engagement we get: 30 / 10 * 5001 * 4 = 60012 damage


"Real men and women do not need Terra"
-- Grendel Roberts
"
We will be used to subdue the Capellan Confederation. We will be used to bring the Free Worlds League to heel. We will be used to
hunt bandits and support corrupt rulers and to reinforce the evils of the Inner Sphere that drove our ancestors from it so long ago."
-- Elias Crichell

Liam's Ghost

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5533
  • Miss Chitty scoffs at your clan overlords
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #14 on: 26 April 2011, 16:52:54 »
Considering my favorite bird is the Sabre, I have a real problem criticizing the Vandal.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Terrace

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1039
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #15 on: 26 April 2011, 17:29:12 »
I believe the phrase "suicide sled" is the most accurate description of the Vandal. If you try to upgrade it, forget it; that thing is beyond help.

Moonsword

  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14633
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #16 on: 26 April 2011, 21:29:42 »
Considering my favorite bird is the Sabre, I have a real problem criticizing the Vandal.

I rather like the Sabre and have no problem criticizing the Vandal.  The fact that most of what I'd do with Vandals I can do almost as well with my preferred Sabres for less money has a lot to do with that.

Jellico

  • Spatium Magister
  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4445
  • BattleMechs are the lords of the battlefield
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #17 on: 26 April 2011, 22:21:33 »
I believe the phrase "suicide sled" is the most accurate description of the Vandal. If you try to upgrade it, forget it; that thing is beyond help.

Not really. Like most of this universe's suicide sleds, its about appropriate use.

Terrace

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1039
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #18 on: 26 April 2011, 22:48:36 »
Not really. Like most of this universe's suicide sleds, its about appropriate use.

Well, according to the fluff, the Clans treat the Vandal more like "the Hunchback IIC of the skies" than they do the Xerxes. "I want you dead, but simply executing you out of hand is a waste. Let your death serve the Clan."
« Last Edit: 26 April 2011, 23:14:56 by Terrace »

Liam's Ghost

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5533
  • Miss Chitty scoffs at your clan overlords
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #19 on: 26 April 2011, 23:38:45 »
I rather like the Sabre and have no problem criticizing the Vandal.  The fact that most of what I'd do with Vandals I can do almost as well with my preferred Sabres for less money has a lot to do with that.

I'd be curious to see a Sabre outrun a Swift and pack around the firepower and range of three Seydlitz while also packing on an extra 30% of armor plate...

It's a light interceptor. I don't comprehend exactly what people are expecting the Vandal to do that it earns such derision. Light interceptors have been happy for years with around three tons of warload, and that wasn't even clan weaponry! Not to mention less thrust and armor protection.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Moonsword

  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14633
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #20 on: 27 April 2011, 08:49:53 »
A Sabre with DHS and Clan ERMLs or ERSLs would match it for firepower, so that's a function of being built with Clantech, not introductory gear - on an apples to apples level, the real difference is the thrust, and it doesn't do much for me.  That was my point: It's an exercise in cranking speed to the max that goes past the point I think you're getting a really worthwhile return on the investment.

Paladin1

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1437
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #21 on: 27 April 2011, 09:47:06 »
A Sabre with DHS and Clan ERMLs or ERSLs would match it for firepower, so that's a function of being built with Clantech, not introductory gear - on an apples to apples level, the real difference is the thrust, and it doesn't do much for me.  That was my point: It's an exercise in cranking speed to the max that goes past the point I think you're getting a really worthwhile return on the investment.
While I want to agree with you Moonsword, the very mission profile of the Vandal is something that requires as much speed as possible.  It's an interceptor, not a dogfighter.  It's mission is to get there, wherever there actually is, before anyone else and grab an opponent's attention.  If you start to turn and burn with a Vandal, even if you kill it, it's done it's job because you were occupied with it while heavier forces were able to catch up.

Moonsword

  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14633
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #22 on: 27 April 2011, 10:01:32 »
Except that really doing that over an extended distance (out to the edge of your detection range, say) requires fuel, not just speed, which is something the Vandal's short on, like several of the other interceptors.  That may not matter if you're not tracking fuel consumption, but for those of us who do, it's a very significant concern.  That's part of the reason I'm really not impressed here.

To match the Sabre's internal fuel fraction, a Vandal has to carry 4 points of tanks or reduce its weapons load by 2 tons.  It can, in theory, carry more gas (9 tons) than a fully-loaded Sabre (7.5 tons) but it won't have any weapons doing it and will be pulling 12/18 to the Sabre's 10/15 curve.  Assuming no use of podspace, a Vandal can pull a 12/18 curve with 6 tons of gas against a clean Sabre with 5 tons at 11/17 or a fully loaded one with 7.5 tons at 10/15, but considering the expense and vastly higher tech level involved, it simply doesn't impress me all that much.

EDIT: To expand on that, there's a tradeoff made between thrust and speed.  I'd cut it with a little less thrust to get more fuel on the basic chassis to respond more aggressively to intrusions, personally.  The Vandal simply doesn't make a bargain I feel is a good one.  Note that I haven't been one of the ones calling it useless for anything but suicide or bomb delivery.
« Last Edit: 27 April 2011, 10:32:21 by Moonsword »

Paladin1

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1437
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #23 on: 27 April 2011, 10:47:26 »
I can agree that the on board fuel is a serious problem, especially considering that I don't like the idea of trading weapon hard-points for fuel since I'd rather use those hard-points for ordnance such as Air-to-Air Missiles.  I would, however, be willing to trade a ton or so of pod space for extra fuel.  At this level though, I have to admit that you have a valid point about the tradeoff between thrust and speed if you're looking at larger than normal playing areas.  I'm not really convinced though that the thrust/speed issue becomes critical on the average playing area.

Moonsword

  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14633
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #24 on: 27 April 2011, 11:33:58 »
On a smaller playing area, I expect fuel isn't that big a concern to begin with, which may be one of the reasons it's not tracked in pure Total Warfare play.  I would note that AAMs aren't available in TW play either, so the question becomes which set of optional rules, if any, are in use by a particular player or group.  On the other hand, depending on your playing area size (I usually play MegaMek and don't get that many opportunities to play aerospace games, so I don't have a lot of experience judging this), I wonder whether or not the Vandal is pushing the point where the acceleration is more than really gets used readily.  For my two cents, it just doesn't seem to strike a good bargain, but there are times that acceleration (and, for that matter, the very slight edge in SI it provides) are going to prove to be decisive.
« Last Edit: 27 April 2011, 11:36:06 by Moonsword »

Kottos

  • Guest
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #25 on: 27 April 2011, 17:25:05 »
The Vandal is an omnifighter in much the same way that the Naga is an omnimech.  It's a salve to the pilot's ego for piloting a support, rather than combat platform. 

It's a suicide sled because of the thrust, not the weapons or armor.  A lot of light fighters can kill their pilots with thrust related G-forces, the Vandal can kill it's pilot without even using the over-thrusters. 

Goose

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 798
  • … the Laws on his tail, burning for home …
    • Home of HeavyMetal Pro
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #26 on: 06 December 2011, 05:04:13 »
[wonders how important that "of the week" thing is] :P

[notes the fuel in a pod issue has been addressed in errata]
GooseAnd Yorinaga Kurita threw his daishō out of the cockpit of his Warhammer in disgust.
The Egyptian God of Frustration
Surprisingly Enlightening©"I am always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught."
- Winston Churchill
Not Write: Post Good!

RedDevilCG

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 168
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #27 on: 06 December 2011, 05:35:43 »
The Delta varient is so cheap BV wise it's silly, and with 3 HMLs shooting at short range, they will be hitting and hurting things.  Take it with your star of mechs, and the thing will be backstabbing all game long, and doing it at speeds that make the target numbers just silly to calculate.

Neufeld

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2539
  • Raven, Lyran, Horse, Capellan, Canopian, Bear
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #28 on: 06 December 2011, 06:02:57 »
Well, we might as well discuss the E variant now that the thread has been bumped.

The E is a dedicated platform for deploying remote sensors, and is as such useful to have. It is worth noting that remote sensors lacks the range to work in space, so they are for planetary deployment only.

"Real men and women do not need Terra"
-- Grendel Roberts
"
We will be used to subdue the Capellan Confederation. We will be used to bring the Free Worlds League to heel. We will be used to
hunt bandits and support corrupt rulers and to reinforce the evils of the Inner Sphere that drove our ancestors from it so long ago."
-- Elias Crichell

Dark_Falcon

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 446
  • Over, under, or through.
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #062 (repost) - Vandal
« Reply #29 on: 06 December 2011, 09:18:34 »
Aff, Neufeld. The E, like the Prime, is purely a recon bird (with even less real firepower).
To the utmost!

 

Register