From TRO: 3067
Note: Once again, I did not write this article; instead, this was written by an anonymous contributor with a love of Warships and naval combat.
The original WSotW article can be found over here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,42549.0.html
This is not meant to replace the older article, but instead offer a complimentary perspective on a popular Warship design.
OVERVIEWIntended as a carrier escort for the original, combat-capable version of the
Leviathan-Class, the
Conqueror is a great mid-range carrier. With two-thirds of an AeroSpace Cluster embarked on the ship and the other third of the Cluster most likely carried by a pair of
Miraborg or
Titan-Class DropShips, it has enough innate fighter support to threaten any WarShip short of a
Leviathan II or
III without needing to engage in combat by itself. If it does happen to wade in, it is 780 kilotons of bad news for the enemy.
MOVEMENT PROFILEAs indicated in the previous article on the
Aegis, AeroSpace games handle movement slightly differently to the ground-based game. 3/5 in space is a bit like 5/8 on the ground; a relatively common speed that will let you get where you want to be most of the time without sacrificing so much to get that speed that the unit isn’t able to carry a decent array of weapons. 3/5 is enough for the
Conqueror to do this job easily, turning to keep its nose and/or Broadside arcs pointed at the enemy, rolling to present less-damaged side armour if it needs to.
A 3/5 thrust profile is enough to allow the
Conqueror to position itself in the middle of the map (if playing a 1-on-one game or if that’s what a fleet game has come down to) or to range 10-15 hexes ahead of another big, nasty ship like a
Texas (the
Ark Royal, second ship in the class originally accompanied the
Texas-Class
Mountbatten) or
Aegis/
Potemkin (the original
Conqueror was placed in a Naval Star with one of each in a show of massive overkill). After the Jihad the
Conqueror-Class becomes the centrepiece of its Naval Stars, the ship others are arranged around.
ARMOUR AND POINT DEFENCEOne of the few vessels to have anything approaching maximum armour for its SI, the
Conqueror is just 92 tons and one armour class shy of what it could have had. Its armour is biased towards the Nose and Fore-Side arcs, a sensible choice given those are the arcs it will expose to enemy ships most often while using the firing arcs that deliver the most damage. With anywhere between 215 and 142 armour per facing, the ship needs to be hit with reasonably large bays to cause Threshold crits, and any enemy that’s managing a full -3 Bracketing capability is unlikely to be able to Threshold with that bay. Even a
McKenna will fall short of the damage required to Threshold a
Conqueror if she’s Bracketing for high to-hit modifiers.
The only area its innate defences are truly lacking is the point-defence front; with no dedicated AMS systems on the ship, its Small Laser/Small Pulse Laser arrays are all it can rely on. 4 damage per bay seems good at first glance, but since they are not Anti-Missile Systems those are halved to 2 damage, which means the ship can only see off a single Barracuda per turn per angle of approach in the Nose, Broadside, and Aft arcs. The Fore and Aft-Sides each add another 1 point of anti-missile defence, which won’t stop any naval missile by themselves but will allow you to stop a White Shark if those bays are overlapped with one of the four cardinal arcs. Finally, being conventional weapons rather than dedicated AMS means you can use each bay only once per turn. Anything larger than a White Shark or Piranha will go through on its own, as will an attack featuring anything more than two Barracudas. This can be mitigated by deploying some ASFs defensively, but if you’re playing a game with nukes being so vulnerable to Santa Ana (White Shark) and especially Peacemaker (Killer Whale) launchers is something to be mindful of. If the enemy has those, the
Conqueror is facing a virtual death sentence and can do nothing about it. Against conventional warheads the armour will hold up for a long while though, so there’s that.
WEAPONS AND HOW TO USE THEMAs mentioned earlier, the ideal WarShip armament is NAC heavy, with ballistic batteries in the Nose, Fore-Side, and Broadside arcs and switching more towards Energy-based bays in the Aft sectors. The
Conqueror largely does this right, with only the Aft arc really falling over from a metagame perspective. What’s really interesting about the
Conqueror is that it’s the first (and only, until we had stats for the
Kimagure it was based on) glimpse of an OOC optimisation trick called “corner posting.”
The way “corner posting” works is relatively simple. The Nose, Aft, and Broadside arcs all meet but do not overlap, so if you stack those with the majority of your big guns you can cover all of the approaches to your ship and still project a lot of firepower. The Fore-Side and Aft-Side arcs are relatively neglected to keep your overall weapon mass down without really having an impact on how much you can fire at the enemy. This works well in theory until a given arc starts taking critical hits and bays start getting knocked out, which is where an all-aspects approach starts pulling ahead by concentrating the big guns in fewer places.
Still, the weapons in the Nose and Broadside arcs of a
Conqueror are frightening to say the least. The Nose arc holds 6 NAC/25s, 4 NAC/30s, three Light Naval PPCs, and a Barracuda launcher - totalling 293 damage. The Broadsides have four NAC/25s 6 NAC/30s, and four Medium Naval PPCs and a Barracuda launcher, enabling them to deal a staggering 318 damage. Realistically between Bracketing reducing your damage output and dice rolls you will probably average around a third of that per turn, but even so that’s enough to gut most ships within four turns. Anything short of a
Leviathan II will be taking Threshold crits from the NAC bays.
Anti-fighter defences are quite solid on the
Conqueror, even without considering its own ASF assets. Each arc has conventional-scale weapons in it, ranging from ER Large and Medium bays with Large Pulse Lasers in the corner post arcs to triple LB-20X and triple LB-10X bays in the fore and aft-sides, which also have mixed batteries of Extreme-range NL-45s and NL-55s for AA duties. 24 points of Capital damage on the NL batteries will Fatal Threshold most squadrons that aren’t composed of high-tonnage, 3067+ brick fighters and destroy them outright. I personally class anti-DropShip fire as AA here too; the NLs can threaten most PWSes with Threshold crits, but if all you can bring to bear on them are the Fore and Aft-side arcs the heavier and newer ships will take a while to wear down.
As is the case with all WarShips, the
Conqueror needs to be most careful with its Aft and Aft-Side arcs. Enemies that slip past the big guns can hide out in that slice of space and strike with relative impunity, forcing you to decide between trying to turn and take them or maintain your bearings and fight targets in front of you. This is where the
Conqueror’s AeroSpace Fighter contingent will earn its keep; 100 fighters is a force few PWS squadrons will want to face, while also being large enough to threaten most WarShips that try to strike from behind. Any ASF force smaller than that will simply be prey. AA fire can be handy here but thanks to the corner posting approach to weapons allocation all a
Conqueror really has in its hind third is a pair of NAC/25s. These will still threshold anything short of a
Leviathan II and present enough firepower that faster, lighter vessels will be reluctant to close and take the risk, but do what you can to prevent an enemy getting behind you.
What really lets the
Conqueror down under the standard rules set are the rules for heat by arc. With just 3,150 points of heat dissipation you risk going out of control
Suffren style if you use more than one NAC-heavy arc. This is much less of an issue if using the rules for heat by individual bay, in which case you can use the big guns in the nose and broadside safely with heat to spare for NL fire, but under the rule set at its most basic this is really the only place the
Conqueror is putting a foot wrong. With the Heat by Arc rules, the
Conqueror can fire one NAC-heavy arc and then either all of its Fore-Side and Aft-Side arcs or its Aft arc and three of the four Fore-Side and Aft-Side arcs.
If you’re trying to deal with one opponent, optimal tactics depend on whether you’re using the advanced rules for heat by bay or the basic rules for heat by arc. In the case of the latter, your objective will be to try and catch your opponent in either your Nose or Broadside arcs; if using heat per bay, turn at an angle and try to bring both the Nose and one Broadside arc onto them. In either case you’ll have enough remaining heat to use your Fore-Side and Aft arcs for AA duties.
HIGH-SPEED ENGAGEMENTSThe
Conqueror’s NAC-heavy armament is a significant advantage in Head-On and Crossing engagements when the High-Speed Damage rules are used, where the 50 and 60-point bays will have a multiplier for between 1.5 and 4 times their usual damage. A single high-speed pass can conceivably destroy even a
Leviathan II - the Nose arc alone delivers 270 damage, which will be boosted to between 405 and 1080 damage. Whether or not the
Conqueror can survive return fire under such circumstances is another question. The corner posting can come back to haunt the
Conqueror if it has manoeuvred disadvantageously or is attempting to escape in a stern chase- the Aft arc only has the paired NAC/25s to rely upon, and the Fore and Aft-Side arcs can only bring NL batteries to bear for capital fire. With advanced rules in play they may not even be able to hit at all with the NACs, making an already bad situation worse.
With its relatively low fuel stores, the
Conqueror-Class probably does not want to get into too many High-Speed Engagements, but given its weapons load-out it should be able to make the most of any it does undertake.
SUPPORT UNITS, CARGO, AND ENDURANCEThe
Conqueror has 100 ASF bays and two DropShip collars. The ASF complement is notably heavy, but the DropShip count is low; most ships the
Conqueror’s size will have two or three times as many collars. I personally prefer to carry the remaining 50 ASFs needed to form a full Cluster in the attached DropShips, but the
Miraborg and
Titan put you at 10 over that count while a modified
Union or
Carrier leave you under the necessary number. In later periods I’d suggest biting the bullet and having the
Conqueror carry a pair of
Nagasawa-Class DropShips which stay in close proximity; although that will drop your ASF count, a
Conqueror by itself will give you a reasonable shot at having more ASFs than your opponent, with the
Nagasawa’s Laser AMS bays compensating for the
Conqueror’s inherent weakness on that front. Before then I would try to find some Fighters with point defence weapons, either canon (rare but not unavailable to the Ravens) or custom OmniFighters toting Anti-Missile Systems. Having half tof he
Conqueror’s ASFs equipped and protecting it in this way will provide decent coverage and still leave a considerable amount of fighters free for offensive uses.
This does assume the
Conqueror is either out for a short jaunt or has a large cargo vessel to resupply from - errata was not kind to the ship. Originally presented with over 40 kilotons of cargo in its Field Manual: Warden Clans incarnation and in early printings of TR: 3067, later versions of the Tech Readout correct this to just over 22 kilotons. After supplying the ship with 7,800 tons of spare parts for the minimum required and 1,250 tons of consumables to account for a three-month cruise, this leaves just 12,950 with which to supply the fighter group - or approximately 130 tons per fighter. Splitting it between fuel and replacement parts should easily see the fighters through a 90-day cruise or one major engagement, after which the ship should be looking to head home. Supporting a pair of
Miraborgs or
Titans will stretch this capacity, but ideally the
Conqueror won’t be operating far from her fleet base for long, at least not without resupply tenders of some kind accompanying her.
The
Conqueror’s 3,000 tons of fuel bunkerage reinforces the point; it has just over 75 burn-days of fuel. With the grav decks it needs not always be under thrust to maintain the health of the crew, but a 90-day deployment window is about all it can undertake on its own. Only having two DropShip collars compounds the problem; for a longer cruise you will need at least one
Mammoth, though under such circumstances you can probably get away with slotting a
Vengeance-Class carrier in the other collar and still bringing almost a full ASF Cluster along for the ride. As long as the
Vengeance’s fighters are only deployed for combat and not used for CAP duties, a
Conqueror with those two ships and no additional support should make it through a six month cruise with some supplies to spare.
The Lithium-Fusion Battery and HPG are both definite strategic advantages, especially since it allows a
Conqueror with a charged drive and battery to cross most of the Raven Alliance or launch a deep raid into the Suns or Draconis Combine with less than half an hour’s notice. Coverage in the Kerensky Cluster when the Ravens lived there was similarly good.
HOW TO USE IT SOLOEven a lone
Conqueror is a formidable threat. Given its arc setup, the ideal move is to boost for the centre of the map to take advantage of the 40-hex Long (Capital) range offered by the NAC batteries. Turn to keep either your Nose or one Broadside arc on a high-priority target (under Heat by Arc rules) or the Nose and one Broadside (under the advanced Heat by Bay rules) on whatever enemy targets you have prioritised. Use any combat-capable DropShips and at least half of your ASF force to cover your rear arcs against enemy ships or squadrons that try to slip past the frontal weapons array.
With only a 3/5 thrust profile, the
Conqueror cannot do much about fast-moving opponents - even when factoring in ECHO manoeuvres, advanced rules allowing you to turn at the end of the movement phase to alter your facing by 1 hex side. I cannot stress the vulnerability of the rear of the ship enough, and since it’s the only vulnerability a
Conqueror has other than a lack of point defence it is the obvious weak spot to try and gun for.
Enemy missiles are the other thing to watch out for, since multiple missiles or any single missile larger than a White Shark will get through the
Conqueror’s point defence array. In later eras, bring a pair of
Nagasawas for AMS duty, or make sure your ASF defence force has Point-Defence capabilities. The
Conqueror really can’t do much against them by itself, so it will be up to its supporting elements to make up for that deficiency.
HOW TO USE IT IN A FLEET ENGAGEMENTThe Snow Ravens are one of the three factions (the others being the FWL and ComStar prior to the Jihad) to have a modern navy with enough ships to build a fleet doctrine around, and that larger context deserves some investigation.
The Ravens have two Naval Stars featuring a
Conqueror prior to the Republic era and two after it. Between the
Conqueror’s launch in 3052 and going into the Jihad, the Ravens deployed the Storm Crow and Brim Naval stars. Storm Crow Naval Pursuit Star is centred on a
Texas, and includes a
Cameron,
Sovetskii Soyuz, and
Carrack. The
Ark Royal, the second
Conqueror to launch, is the final component of the Star. The Brim Naval Assault Star was centred on a
Potemkin, with
Aegis,
Congress, and
Carrack-class ships. The
Conqueror herself, the namesake and first ship of the class, round the Star out.
The
Carracks are definitely not viable combat assets, and I won’t waste my time writing or your time reading on their role in the Stars beyond that. They have some strategic utility as fleet tenders, but as tactical elements they are simply non-entities. They should flee the engagement and stay out of the way.
The rest of the Star will deploy as a mutually supporting group, with the centrepiece of the Star (the
Texas in the Storm Crow Star and the
Potemkin in the Brim Star) sitting 10-15 hexes behind a screen composed of the
Conqueror and a similar ship (
Aegis or
Cameron). The final ship in the Star can sit behind the Star’s centrepiece and make sure it stays safe, burning in if it needs to. Under such an arrangement, your
Texas or
Potemkin is Bracketing for a -2 at its Extreme range with inexhaustible capital weapons, and anything it can hit is under heavier fire from the NAC batteries on the
Conqueror,
Aegis, or
Cameron. Nothing wants to close and face the heavier fire and ASF coverage of the
Conqueror and its compatriot, but staying at range is also a losing game for the enemy. Even fast-moving assault vessels will need to spend three or more turns under fire to get to the
Potemkin or
Texas, and they will regret trying given the defence perimeter laid down by the advance ships.
In later eras, the Ravens deploy the Ice Storm Naval Star (
Cameron,
Congress,
Conqueror,
Vincent, and
Whirlwind) and Conqueror Naval Star (
Aegis,
Cameron,
Conqueror,
Sovetskii Soyuz, and
Thera). Neither Star has a long-range bracketing centrepiece any more, and the presence of the
Thera makes the Conqueror Naval Star slightly different to the Ice Storm Naval Star.
Ice Storm Star as a unit is best served by placing the
Conqueror and
Cameron on either side of the
Congress with the
Vincent and
Whirlwind bringing up the rear. In a reverse of their pre-Jihad strategy, the idea here is to allow the
Congress’ NAC batteries to protect the
Conqueror and
Cameron from PWSes that might try to approach, since nothing in the Star has enough of an Extreme (Capital) range battery to base your deployment around. The ASFs of the
Conqueror can buzz around in the same area, breaking off to go after wounded prey or DropShips as necessary and preventing enemy ASF from targeting any one ship in the Star.
Conqueror Naval Star is just ridiculous. Even without bringing carrier DropShips to the party, Conqueror Star has 360 fighters - nearly seven full Inner Sphere Fleet Regiments. That force alone basically renders the group immune to PWS squadrons, with about seventy fighters buzzing around each ship like angry hornets. The
Conqueror and
Cameron form the front line of the Star, with the
Aegis watching over the
Thera with its defensive batteries. The
Sovetskii Soyuz is barely more than an afterthought here, with the least firepower to contribute to the battle and the worst armour. Sitting it between and behind the
Aegis/
Thera pairing is probably its best use, since it’s got some Naval PPCs with reach and can ward off attempts from enemy vessels to slip into the rear of those two if they somehow make it past the
Cameron/
Conqueror front line.
HOW TO FIGHT IT SOLOOne-on-one, you need something like either an original-build
Kimagure (the Clans apparently had another three somewhere, but they may have been badly damaged enough to not be economically restored) or a vessel like the
Potemkin and ships heavier than it. Essentially what you’re looking for is a ship with equal or better thrust but primarily armed with energy-based capital weapons capable of Bracket-firing to Extreme (Capital) range.
Stay out of the
Conqueror’s NAC bubble of doom by drifting backwards as fast as they can close, hope the map is big enough for this tactic to work, and wear the
Conqueror down. If you can eliminate most or all of the Nose arc’s NAC bays, this gives you a reasonable slice of space to work in, and if you are careful enough to avoid the Broadside arrays you might be able to work through the Fore and Nose armour more quickly by moving in.
There are very few designs active in its era that could reliably take on a lone
Conqueror and win. A
Thera’s ASFs and heavy armour would give it the advantage over a
Conqueror, though those are rare and a long way from the Ravens; in the Dark Age, only one remains outside the Ravens’ own fleet and it’s no longer able to Jump. A Thera has enough ASF to negate the
Conqueror’s own and with Fighters left over to go on and attack the enemy vessel.
The
Mjolnir and
Fang Huang both have the advantage of speed over the
Conqueror, enabling them to stay in the Extreme (Capital) bracket and still fire on it. Neither will kill one quickly at that range, and both (at least if the
Feng Huang isn’t a Block II carrier upgrade) will still be under threat from the
Conqueror’s air wing. An
Avalon will require a lot of luck to beat a
Conqueror, but it can be done; the 4/6 thrust profile will let it stay out of NAC range while it tries to generate disabling critical hits from its AR-10s. A single Peacemaker hit will end the argument very quickly, but if it’s not carrying nukes the
Avalon’s chances will run out when the AR-10 bins are empty - if it can hold off the
Conqueror’s ASF for that long. If its missiles have expired, so has all hope for victory since the bulk of its weapons are NACs and the
Conqueror would just love to play that game.
For the Clans, one of the best answers is to use a
Potemkin,
Texas, or
McKenna with carrier DropShips. Drift back as the
Conqueror moves forward, and spend an hour or two of in-game (and possibly real-world) time cutting it apart with bracketed Heavy Naval PPC or NL volleys at Extreme (Capital) range where the
Conqueror has a minimal ability to reply. Anything lighter, even a
Nightlord, has to enter the range of the
Conqueror’s NAC batteries to fight effectively on its own, but they lack the armour and sustained firepower to reliably bring one down.
The
Leviathan II and
III have an incredible amount of armour and firepower in addition to their ASF and DropShip escorts, which would allow them to soak the
Conqueror’s fire while giving back as good as they’re getting and swarming it with their own ASF contingent. Of course, since nothing we’ve seen (or are likely to ever see) in canon can take a
Leviathan II or
III by itself this is hardly surprising.
If you can’t bring something that large your hopes rest with a
Black Lion and hoping the rolls go in your favour; one
Black Lion has little chance against a
Conqueror. Ideally you want more. Much more.
HOW TO FIGHT IT IN A FLEET ENGAGEMENTWhile other Clans certainly had Naval Stars, the Ravens had the best and the most of them. Winning against the Storm Crows requires you to show up with a
McKenna, three
Black Lions, and an
Aegis of your own - at minimum. Some Clans can do that, but it indicates the sort of lengths you need to go to against a Star like that. The only way to beat the Ravens in space is to play their game but better.
A pity, then, that the Ravens also have the Brim Naval Assault Star that require similar assets to take on. Oh, and another five Naval Stars with similar power. This neatly highlights the problem with trying to take on the Ravens in space; no matter how poor their ground forces might be, they can afford to escalate any engagement to a naval battle, where they have the advantage.
Most Clan fleets will have something like a single
McKenna,
Nightlord, or
Texas as their flag vessel and be composed mostly of
Sovetskii Soyuz,
Aegis, or
Lola IIIs with a
Potemkin or two for transport duties. Any situation where your best answer to either the Brim or Storm Crow stars is “send at least half of your fleet” is one you really don’t want to be in, given the choice. Thankfully the Trial system usually prevents things coming to that point.
The Ravens were briefly neighbours of the Federated Suns and Draconis Combine while both still had fleets worth talking about. For the Suns, the core of a fleet sent to take on force with a
Conqueror in it would probably feature three
Avalon-Class Cruisers and at least six
Foxes, though that means putting all of the
Avalons in one basket and sending a half of their other ships. This generates a relatively even battle without nukes, but the surviving FSN forces aren’t going to be worth much if they do win. The remaining 6
Foxes have no hope of dealing with the other Raven star featuring a
Conqueror. The Draconis Combine Navy is in a similar position, built around
Kyushus spearheaded by a
Kirishima or
Tatsumaki. It would require most of the DCN’s warships to bring down either the Storm Crow or Brim Naval Stars; taking both out is essentially impossible.
As a result, neither the Federated Suns or Draconis Combine can credibly threaten the Ravens in space; in a purely defensive campaign that suits the Clan just fine. For a counter-attack, the Brim and Storm Crow stars could penetrate enemy territory as far as Luthien or New Avalon and hold those capital worlds hostage. Offensively, they can simply escalate a ground engagement to a fleet engagement over multiple planets. Such a task force would also be badly outmatched by the Brim or Storm Crow stars.
This does change after the Jihad, where the Ravens’ most powerful ships were all killed and the next-best things after the
Conqueror in a fight are
Camerons and
Aegises. 15 ships is still a considerable force, but the likelihood of running into a
Conqueror by itself or with minimal support is somewhat higher. That’s the good news. The bad news is that neither the Suns or Combine have a large or powerful enough fleet to make an attempt on the with WarShips. The FSN has a single
Fox while the DCN can boast just one
Kyushu and one
Inazuma. Any such attack would be heavily reliant on massed Pocket WarShip Squadrons.
DropShip-wise, at least the Republic and Dark Age eras feature large groups of PWS. The down side is that most will need to enter the NAC range of a
Conqueror to do anything significant to it. Gather enough
Taihous (at least 18, preferably 24 or more) if you’re playing the DCN or
Conquistador Blockade Runners (6-12) for the Suns and you’re in business. Expect up to 50% casualties crossing the NAC-equipped arcs, and stick close to ship’s Aft row. It has relatively little armour and weaponry, making it the easiest to work on. Even an ECHO shift will still allow you to target an Aft-Side arc. Given the
Conqueror’s relative vulnerability to nukes, old PWSes like a
Union,
Overlord-A3, or
Nekohono’o might even be able to bring it down alone, but you’d probably want at least a Squadron of those to get through a WarShip’s ECM and the ASF that can screen a Conqueror.
Trying to take one down with a force primarily based around ASF fighters can be a somewhat difficult proposition. With 100-160 (or more, they might be using
Vengeance-Class DropShips) you need to bring a significant number just to break even. Given the
Conqueror’s NAC batteries, NL defences, and Barracudas along with its heavy armour you probably need at least another 100 to make a decent fist of it.
THE SECRET TO BEATING A CONQUERORUltimately the easiest way to take on a
Conqueror is to try and game the system. If you know, or at least suspect, that your opponent is going to bring one to the fight then try to have the game played with normal Heat Per Arc rules rather than Heat Per Bay rules. If you present the
Conqueror with enough targets in enough arcs, it will be quite limited for firing given the corner posted arc heat requirements.
If it is at all possible, bring nukes. With little in organic point defence, anything with enough White Shark or Barracuda launchers has a decent chance of killing it quickly via contact crits. Anything with even one Killer Whale launcher is in a commanding position, and can destroy it outright with damage from a single Peacemaker hit; the
Conqueror doesn’t have enough armour and SI to survive 1,000 points of Capital-scale damage.
OVERALLThe
Conqueror is one of the three classes of canon ships (the others being the
Leviathan II and
Leviathan III) that come closest to what a custom vessel of that mass might look like. As such, it’s a ferocious combatant, easily capable of taking on anything else in canon and winning as long as circumstances it can get into Long (Capital) range with the NACs. Given these factors it’s hard to rate the
Conqueror at anything less than 9/10 as a canon ship. The lack of point defence and heat problems are worth being mindful of, but the raw power of a
Conqueror amongst canon ships is incredible.
~ ~ ~
Master Unit List:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3991/conqueror-battlecruisercarrier-standardCamoSpecs:
https://camospecs.com/Miniature/Details/6657Iron Wind Metals:
http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8832
