Author Topic: MotW: Sirocco  (Read 17066 times)

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21810
  • Third time this week!
MotW: Sirocco
« on: 11 February 2017, 01:26:38 »




(The author first begs the apology for being a bit late getting this posted- illness is a poor excuse but does happen now and then.)

Four-legged Mechs didn't have a great start in this universe. The Goliath was respected but had major flaws, and the Scorpion was... less said the better, in-general. It remained such for many years, with only those two oddballs as options, before we started to see other designs, with TRO: 3055 finally bringing us something new to see with the Tarantula. Corean took a huge gamble on that design, creating a fast, jump-capable scout that could sting targets, but having to literally give them away at first to try to cover for the four-legged stigma. The risk was huge- if it had failed, Corean would have lost an enormous amount. Instead, the gamble paid off over time, with the design becoming very popular (and it's not hard to see why, if you've used them!). The stigma began to be erased, with even the Clans getting in on four-legged designs, and by the 3150s it's not uncommon to see a four-legged Mech on the battlefield. The Tarantula though really was the first time we saw a quad have real success in terms of production and use, and with that success in mind Corean moved forward on coming up with something a little heftier for their second effort.

Registering in at a beef 95 tons, the Sirocco is one of the largest Mechs built in the Free Worlds League. Built at Corean's Stewart facility in the aftermath of GUERRERO, the Mech has the usual limitations a quad has- lack of ability to hit targets outside its forward arc, primarily. It also has the bonuses, such as incredible armor and stability. The original-style Goliath's unique gait is clearly an influence here, with its tall, almost graceful appearance. As an assault Mech, the machine's performance is less than impressive- a 285-rated standard engine moves the Sirocco at a stately 3/5. The heavy engine is an unfortunate necessity- with far fewer crit spaces to use than a biped, designers had to keep the space used to a minimum. As we'll see though, the Mech makes the most of what it has regardless. Suffice to say, if you're using an assault Mech- quad or not- for speedy operations, you're doing it wrong anyway.

Quads lack the internal space of their two-legged brethren, but where they lack space they make up for it in armor. We again see heavier, space-saving standard plate used (same with the internal structure, no endo to be found here, but to be fair we have 19.5 tons of the stuff. The layout is thick in all locations (head aside, of course), but it's worth pointing out that the beast has enough to withstand two AC-20 hits to any leg without going internal, and even the rear center torso can take it once. That's impressive stuff- and important when you can't engage targets in your flank. Throw in the standard engine, and it takes a remarkable amount of work to put a Sirocco down- particularly if it takes partial cover behind a low hill or in Lv.1 water. However, the lack of CASE to protect against ammunition explosions is surprising for a Mech coming out ten years after the Clan invasion.

"Speed, armor, firepower, pick two. We didn't pick speed. So... hello guns. We saved all those crits by not using endo, ferro, or XL- what did we do with them, then? We put in a couple of big ballistic weapons, of course. And here , on the 3C model, we see the first real shortcoming in the design, as the Ultra AC-10 is the gun chosen for the work. While a ten point hit is nothing to sneeze at, and the potential is there to throw four of them per turn at decent ranges, they feel very underwhelming on a 95-ton machine, particularly with the Awesome 9Q able to throw the same amount of heavy firepower per turn on fifteen tons less weight with no ammunition concerns. Speaking of ammunition, twenty rounds per gun is adequate for most operations, with two tons in each rear leg- something to consider in case your legs start getting a bit thin on armor. It's not the worst choice a Mech could make, but one does wonder about the utility of switching to LB-10Xs for the scattershot effect, or something along those lines.

Backing the cannons are a whole mess of ER medium lasers. Each front leg has one in the kneecap, while two more sit in the side torsos next to the cockpit assembly. Two more sit in a similar position aft to guard the rear, never a bad thing on a quad design. A medium pulse laser under the cockpit rounds out the offensive firepower. An A-pod (purchased from House Liao) provides a bit of anti-infantry protection, parked in the front legs. Thirteen double-strength heat sinks keep the design fairly cool so long as you don't push too hard. Overall, at mid-to-short ranges a Sirocco can be a terrifying sight to have approaching you, and should not be underestimated!

A variant, the 5C, strips out the autocannons for a pair of light Gauss rifles because have you met the Free Worlds League in this era before? The setup is similar- side torsos with ammo in the legs (though far less volatile this time, and only one ton in each). Other smaller changes include losing the 'cheek' lasers for SRM-4 launchers (a questionable upgrade), adding CASE (why only NOW?), and doubling the amount of A-pods because reasons of some kind or other. One wants to like the 5C's added range, but the odd changes elsewhere and the fact that at 95 tons it only spits a pair of eight-point hits per turn at its intended range makes this a hard Mech to really love- one of those rides that you don't mind if you get handed one for your operation, but won't really want to go out of your way to acquire.

The Jihad brought about new variants for just about every Mech in service- some were basic changes that didn't do much to alter a machine's role, others were near totally new designs. Perhaps no Mech saw more changes than the Sirocco though, as the 6C went into service. Light ferro-fibrous armor keeps the protection much the same, but loses a couple of tons to be used for the new weapon suite. One of the light Gauss weapons remains from the 5C, in the left side, with the ammo moved in with it (and bumped to two tons). The other side has an array of lasers, an ER large backed by four ER mediums. No silly A-pods this time, but we DO have a C3 slave (odd for a Marik design) and a Guardian ECM. Heat is kept manageable by tend double heat sinks, but firing it all will spike you dangerously. If this all feels underwhelming, it is- but there's one more thing to be noted- the improved jump jet in each rear leg and the center torso. Seeing a Sirocco leap five hexes at a time must be quite the sight- take a moment to look at the artwork and then imagine that thing leaping thanks to jets in the belly and rear legs. Go on. I'll wait.

So how to use a Sirocco? This is Marik- advance under a cloud of LRM fire and LGR slugs, and make life miserable when you get into laser range. The 6C provides an ability to clear large obstacles and get behind targets, as well- and all versions are shockingly hard to put on the ground due to their elephant hide armor, so they can afford to advance slowly and take a few hits along the way. Marik doesn't have many 'oh god it won't die' assault designs- usually their assaults are a bit fragile, like the Albatross and Cerberus. This thing though is in the vein of the old Atlas in that it takes a very lucky hit or a whole lot of pummeling to make it go away.

Fighting one is equally simple though- because as with most quads, there's no ability to target in its flanks, and only a couple of lasers on the first two variants can hit rearward (and none on the 6C!). Flank a Sirocco and you can pummel it at will. Smart commanders will pair a Sirocco with units to act as bodyguards (the author is fond of using the Ontos in this role, because no one likes to see one of those blasted things around). Since A-pods aren't exactly the most terrifying anti-infantry weapon out there, the tried and true Vulcan is another good thing to have around, keeping a Sirocco's legs safe from satchel charges. It's a powerful beast, but has very easily-exploited limitations, as with so many Marik units-and like most of them, a well-built Marik force will support and cover each other's deficiencies. Fail to do that, and your Sirocco will go down hard in no time.

The author was surprised to see that at no point did a C3i version come along, and has tinkered with such an idea off and on for some time. Apollo's Law also is one to throw to the wolves here, and see if a little Clan weaponry makes the Sirocco's foul wind even deadlier (in particular, the 5C lends itself nicely to Clan Gauss rifles). Any ideas for what you'd do? Stories of use? Dive in!
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Tai Dai Cultist

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7127
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #1 on: 11 February 2017, 01:57:02 »
I know it's only beta, but the torso directional mounts in BMM will probably stick around.  And help provide this guy with some flexibility in its shoulderguns.

garhkal

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6684
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #2 on: 11 February 2017, 02:02:37 »
I've always loved the Sirocco, but never liked the initial version with the win UAC-10s.  If anything i would have prefered a regular or LB-10x version.  That said, i loved the idea behind the 6c and its jumping capacity.  Though the 2 times i used it, i lost BOTH to rather piddly LRM-5 and 10 packs TAC'ing my center torso and nakking out my gyro.. >:( >:(

My favored mod i have seen was strip out the weapons for a pair of full on gauss rifles, a pair of ER-mediums, a trio of ER smalls and a pair of a-pods..  All 3 smalls are rearward, while the ER mediums are foward with the two gausses..
It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26122
  • Need a hand?
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #3 on: 11 February 2017, 03:00:00 »
The thing that really bugs me about the 3C model is that by 3060, 18 hexes is really not that great of range, especially on something so slow.  The one time I've seen a Sirocco on the battlefield it got peppered at long range before some speedy flankers got around and blasted it with concentrated fire to its rear and sides.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Sharpnel

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13414
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #4 on: 11 February 2017, 03:38:30 »
This Mech re-invigorated my love affair with Quads, though I prefer the 5C variant and a missile variant I've designed.
Consigliere Trygg Bender, CRD-3BL Crusader, The Blazer Mafia
Takehiro 'Taco' Uchimiya, SHD-2H Shadow Hawk 'Taco', Crimson Oasis Trading Company

"Of what use is a dream, if not a blueprint for courageous action" -Adam West
As I get older, I realize that I'm not as good as I once was.
"Life is too short to be living someone else's dream" - Hugh Hefner

marauder648

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8158
    • Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #5 on: 11 February 2017, 07:44:57 »
Great write up on the AT-AT :) Always liked the Sirocco, sure the art could do with a bit of work but its a good solid workhorse.  Sure its got quad drawbacks and the standard versions range is worrying, but if you're a FWL force them you can blacken the sky with LRM's whilst the Sirocco plods forwards.
Ghost Bears: Cute and cuddly. Until you remember its a BLOODY BEAR!

Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs - https://thezhukovau.wordpress.com/

Getz

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 753
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #6 on: 11 February 2017, 07:59:04 »
I find the Sirocco nicely sums up the problems with assault weight quads.  If you try and save space by using low tech structural equipment, you end up with a limited war load.  If you try to save weight by going high tech you don't have the internal space to carry any weapons of note.

In that context, the double Ultra-10 armament makes reasonable sense.  Four ten point hits is acceptable, if not outstanding, fire power for a mech this size and the heat load can be covered by your base heatsinks.  Certainly you could probably do more damage by having an energy heavy main armament, but where exactly are all the required heat sinks going to fit?

As it happens I sort of like the LGR variant because it makes sense as  long ranged fire support platform that will not go away and I don't even hate the missile packs, but wasting two whole tons on A-pods that could have gone into much needed guns or ammo is hard to swallow.

I fell out of favour with heaven somewhere, so I'm here for the hell of it now...

UnLimiTeD

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #7 on: 11 February 2017, 09:31:56 »
This must be quite the sight when jumping indeed.
Even makes sense given the rest of it's capabilities.
Though if you build a jumping assault quad, I think they should have gone for a better gyro.  ... It must make a fearsome spotter, though, if you have the lance for it. C3, ECCM, and a 95 ton package that jumps around constantly. You don't need to do your job gracefully to be a nuisance.   O:-)
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

Ghostbear_Gurdel

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1598
  • Live by the Sword...
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #8 on: 11 February 2017, 09:50:23 »
Ive always like the IDEA of the Sirocco, but have never used one personally.

The only time I have seen one on the field, it was in the OpFor during my Wife's first game. I warned her about the scary 95 ton Assault mech. So of course she charged it with her Hatchetman. During the turn 3 weapons phase she fired her medium laser..... and marked an X across the cockpit. For the physical phase she survived the kick, then she swung her hatchet.... and sheared the cockpit right off the front of the Sirocco.....  :o

An impressive story, but it probably doesn't highlight the pros or cons of the mech in any way....  #P
"The real question is, just how badly do you want to pound your opponent?  You can do things to your opponent with an ASF that are illegal in 39 states and 14 countries, and that's without even trying hard." - Paladin1
Member No. 3 of the JM6 haters club

Arkansas Warrior

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9237
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #9 on: 11 February 2017, 12:33:04 »
For some reason I've always had a soft spot for this quirky, elephantine beast.  The 5C seems like a good command mech.  Decent long-range armament let's the CO hang back, tough hide keeps him alive if the headhunters come to play.  Throw in a couple of Longbow-12Cs and a Grand Titan and you've got a nice Lance.  Alternatively, a lance full of AWS-9Ms and let the CO do the bodyguarding himself from a 3C.  Until the action gets close he can sit back and issue orders, if somebody closes he opens up with the Ultras.

Also, this mech has me wanting to run a post-Jihad merc battalion composed entirely of quads.  Siroccos and Goliaths for the heavy duty, Barghests, Ursas, maybe a few Scorpions for the main line combat, and some Tarantulas for scout duty.
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9122
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #10 on: 11 February 2017, 14:08:42 »
Seems to me the AT-AT - i mean the Sirocco (3C) is an anchor and a "breacher". It just walks forward. You can't ignore it, it has enough firepower for that, but it can also absorb massive amount of damage.

While the UACs don't really offer an upgrade over the old Awesome and its PPCs, the secondary armament is significant. Pushing the heat a bit, it is not nice being in front of the Sirocco. An extra ton of ammo over the A-pods would've been nice.
I'm not sure a LB-10X would have been a good fit here. Ultras do offer up to 20 points of damage at 18 hexes, while perhaps not "long" anymore in an era of ERPPCs and Gauss Rifles, it is nothing to laugh at. An LB-10X would have turned the 'Mech into something of a generalist, something it is not. It is a literal assault 'Mech, clearly meant to fight other 'Mechs and fixed defenses, so extra firepower is more important than utility. And it is a Marik 'Mech, they use combined arms heavily and have a lot of generalist 'Mechs to escort the Sirocco.

The rear armor is a bit excessive perhaps, but it is a Quad so maybe it is justifiable. At least the side torsos don't have anything explosive in them. Leg ammo is pretty difficult to crit (without floating criticals or MASC, the armor needs to be stripped and 40 points is a lot) so ammo explosions aren't really a concern.

The Sirocco 3C is one of the few Quads i like. It is solid and uncomplicated. And comparisons to AT-ATs are appropriate, not just due to their looks but their function.

5C is... OK, i guess. A tad unfocused. The LGRs are OK but don't quite have enough ammo. Not sure what they were thinking with the secondary armament... Drop the A-pods for extra SRM and LGR ammo to capitalize on SRM flexibility (smokes, infernos, or Narcs to go with the FWL's Narc carriers) and allow the LGRs take poor to-hit shots.
Definitively prefer the 3C.

6C is just meh. I don't like Improved Jump Jets in almost any 'Mech and i especially dislike them in 'Mechs that aren't originally jumpers.

EDIT With some modifications, the 5C would make a good base for a FWL C3 Master carrier. Workshop: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56359.0
« Last Edit: 11 February 2017, 14:21:13 by Empyrus »

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40909
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #11 on: 11 February 2017, 14:39:11 »
I want to use one of these to anchor a defensive formation. Can you imagine having to close with a -3C that's dug in behind partial cover?

Similarly, I also want to build 'quad-squad' linebacker lance of a Sirocco with a pair of Goliath-6Ms to cover the flanks, and a Scorpion-10M as a scout/skirmisher.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13317
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #12 on: 11 February 2017, 16:30:44 »
I want a version that doesn't match the guns.

Give me a Gauss Rifle & LB10X combo to hammer the enemy from behind a hill, better yet, add in an ERLL in the CT for a trifecta of shootiness.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Arkansas Warrior

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9237
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #13 on: 11 February 2017, 17:15:27 »
Good point.  The classic ERPPC/Gauss or HPPC/LBX10 combos could be pretty nice here.
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

garhkal

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6684
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #14 on: 11 February 2017, 23:19:55 »
The thing that really bugs me about the 3C model is that by 3060, 18 hexes is really not that great of range, especially on something so slow.  The one time I've seen a Sirocco on the battlefield it got peppered at long range before some speedy flankers got around and blasted it with concentrated fire to its rear and sides.

I agree.  Paired Gauss rifles at least give 23 hexes of range...

Quote
Also, this mech has me wanting to run a post-Jihad merc battalion composed entirely of quads.  Siroccos and Goliaths for the heavy duty, Barghests, Ursas, maybe a few Scorpions for the main line combat, and some Tarantulas for scout duty.

I've had fun with an entire 13 mech company of C3 linked quads..  IIRC in that company, two lances link together with the Co commander, while the 3rd lance is on it's own.

I want a version that doesn't match the guns.

Give me a Gauss Rifle & LB10X combo to hammer the enemy from behind a hill, better yet, add in an ERLL in the CT for a trifecta of shootiness.

That could work.  OR having one that's JUST a close in brawler for city fighting, with TWIN AC-20s!!
It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21810
  • Third time this week!
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #15 on: 12 February 2017, 00:00:35 »
For some reason, I keep wanting to put mortars on one. I don't know why. Help me.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 29056
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #16 on: 12 February 2017, 00:33:47 »
For 3145 it needs to become a assault Carronade.

IMO the -5C needs to have a C3slave to be like the Vanquisher in C3i networks . . . and as others have said, more ammo.  A-Pods are the place to change here.

I would have also liked to see some VSPLs just for the extra defensive nature a Jihad variant could have provided.

Wanted to mess with one, but never got one on the L2 MM servers.  Rarely saw them either, but I do think they fit the assault stereotype.  Hey diddle diddle, right up the middle!
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

SCC

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8392
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #17 on: 12 February 2017, 04:03:21 »
I hear you're complaints about having to use a SFE and the slow speed, which is why I think that quad 'Mechs need to get bonus MP like quad BA and Proto's, if they did this design would be have a move of 5/8, which is unheard of for a 'Mech in it's weight class, especially with a SFE

UnLimiTeD

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #18 on: 12 February 2017, 06:30:49 »
It would also make quads blatantly overpowered, because turrets do exist. This mech just doesn't have one. +1 running mp, maybe.
Yes, they are a bit weak at times, and starved for crits, and probably more of a flavour piece than a genuine good choice more often than not.
But we've all seen mechs that way outclass this one in the "lemon" category.
I see no real problem with an SFE, it makes the mech durable. What irks me more is that losing a sidetorso basically immobilizes the mech which a biped design doesn't suffer from.
As for C3i, wouldn't the C3+ECm be the normal replacement for that? I could imagine one was planned IC and then just didn't happen one way or the other.
Also, when it comes to new variants, this mech is durable. It needs a compact gyro.
For some reason, I keep wanting to put mortars on one. I don't know why. Help me.

Here. Have a Mortar.
« Last Edit: 12 February 2017, 06:40:03 by UnLimiTeD »
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

I am Belch II

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10240
  • It's a gator with a nuke, whats the problem.
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #19 on: 12 February 2017, 07:12:21 »
Nice write up on a good quad.
Walking the fine line between sarcasm and being a smart-ass

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 12078
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #20 on: 12 February 2017, 14:29:15 »
For some reason, I keep wanting to put mortars on one. I don't know why. Help me.

you can easily fit quad 4's or paired 8's on it plus a crap-load of ammo. you run out of crits faster than tonnage.

i've considered dual Thunderbolt-10's, not sure if they'd actually be worth using.

to be honest though, i'm surprised we never got an LRM version. long range fire support (especially if C3 equipped or using semi-guided missiles for accuracy) would offset some of the issues with the lack of firearcs for a quad.
« Last Edit: 12 February 2017, 14:54:49 by glitterboy2098 »

garhkal

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6684
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #21 on: 12 February 2017, 16:35:52 »
What irks me more is that losing a sidetorso basically immobilizes the mech which a biped design doesn't suffer from.

True, blowing off a side torso loses the accompanying forward leg which imposes a -5 penalty to all PSR checks... AND cuts movement down by 5..  so unless you are higher than a 5/8 from the start, you are pretty much immobilized.

It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13317
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #22 on: 12 February 2017, 16:53:56 »
That could work.  OR having one that's JUST a close in brawler for city fighting, with TWIN AC-20s!!
Eww, no.   I don't like my quad-Assaults getting in close w/ the enemy.
Lack of Arms & Torso-Twist is a major hindrance there.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

worktroll

  • Ombudsman
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25730
  • 504th "Gateway" Division
    • There are Monsters in my Sky!
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #23 on: 12 February 2017, 17:00:08 »
... the Ultra AC-10 is the gun chosen for the work. While a ten point hit is nothing to sneeze at, and the potential is there to throw four of them per turn at decent ranges, they feel very underwhelming on a 95-ton machine

Ah, the UAC-10. Sometimes we Leaguers seem addicted to flavour, above effectiveness.

But.

I ask you to reconsider this often maligned weapon. Don't think of it as second-rate. Think of it as the only weapon available to the IS at the time that can at times inflict more damage than the Gauss Rifle, at comparable ranges.

Yes, 40% of the time it does 20 points of damage. Yes, it's at slightly shorter ranges. Yes, there's always the chance of the gun blowing its fuses when double-shotting. But to the people who came up with the LGR, such flaws features are more than compensated for each time the double-tap works.

(Were I giving quirks, I'd have made the UACs jettisonable, and allowed the Sirroco +1 walking speed thus unburdenes. But ... yes. Silly.

But is it silly enough for Marik?  ??? )

W.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Iron Mongoose

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1473
  • Don't you know, you're all my very best friends
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #24 on: 12 February 2017, 23:01:23 »
I think the Sirocco is exactly silly enough for Marik. 

I fell in love with this mech way back in the FGC days.  I once used a whole lance of the crazy things to anchor a combined arms company, two of each old variant.  They just soaked up fire, seemingly forever, while the remainder of the company went to work. 

I do prefer the LGR model.  Granted, I'm an LGR man (and crazy) but the nearly unmatched range is so lovely.  Sure, its not so much damage, but nothing that can hit back can really quickly kill the massively armored Sirocco (which at the time was the most heavily armored mech yet made) and every ER PPC and GR they throw at you isn't going at your Hunchbacks and Trebuchets and Apollos and Wraiths and so on.  Like Hellbie points out, the FWL isn't long on tank like mechs, so this is something of a go to there.  And, its a great partner for the FWL's glass jawed assaults.  It can soak up fire, and dissuade enemies from closing, since better to live with the LGR hits (probably at medium range, mind you) than face all the ER MLs (plus whatever the Albatross you're partnering with can add).

I've never used the IJJ model.  It seems to have a very different role than its brothers, and I'm not quite sure what I'd do with it.  As has been said, quads do best at range, since they're so ill prepared to respond to flankers, but a mech with five hexes jump range and 300+ points of armor cries out to get in peoples faces.  I'll probably have to find a chance to try one, but I think the LGR will still be my go to.
"For my military knowledge, though I'm plucky and adventury,
Has only been brought down to the beginning of the century..."

worktroll

  • Ombudsman
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25730
  • 504th "Gateway" Division
    • There are Monsters in my Sky!
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #25 on: 12 February 2017, 23:05:33 »
Oh, and the proper nickname for Siroccos, as Iron Mongoose recognises: "Claymore". Front toward enemy.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25163
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #26 on: 12 February 2017, 23:13:32 »
Nice Write up, Jade.  Its not a design often think about. 

Sirocco is pretty nice, thou I've never figured it what good role it would play if i had to play it.  It has good fire power and frankly cover's its back better than most Quads. 

It was kinda funny that the Sirocco's lightness was used for the image of the Assault Transport in the "The Star Empire" section of the Welcome to Nebula California.  That thing was used industrialMech construction rules to build a technically superheavy 120-ton "AT-AT".

"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21810
  • Third time this week!
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #27 on: 12 February 2017, 23:38:36 »
How to use the IJJ version?

Simple. if the 3C and 5C are claymores- front towards enemy- the 6C is more of a mallet. "Smash down on enemy's head and shoulders" ;)

Nah, I mean if you get a chance to drop a 95-ton quad on someone's shoulders, do it because that's awesome. But it's a sniper- you only have two eight-point hits per turn, but you have plenty of ammo for the LGR and the ability to hop to firing points far better than most similar designs could (including the 5C). It can also escape danger easier, quickly retreating from a compromised position if needed. It can also fall back to hold the range for its main weapons longer- moving back five hexes a turn, even in open terrain, means it can hold the range against heavy and assault designs for a long time, and even mediums will take a beating by the time they get close enough to use their main weapons- and still have to chew through that armor.

This is a chess-player's Mech. Use it wisely, and it's a lightly-armed but nigh-invulnerable harasser that will take a pounding to put down. Use it like a typical assault, and you're going to be disappointed.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Iron Mongoose

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1473
  • Don't you know, you're all my very best friends
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #28 on: 13 February 2017, 01:08:43 »
Problem with the 6M is, for me the Sirocco has long been a mech to be lauded because it can soak up hundreds of points of damage, but no one is going to fling tons of ammo from their most intimidating weapons on a mech that just jumped five hexes.  If I'm to have a lightly armed but invulnerable harasser, I'd like it to be a Phoenix Hawk like 45 tons, or a Vapor Eagle like 55 at most. 

I wouldn't mind a 3/5/3 Sirocco, and I do love my jumping slow assaults like the Pilliger or some Dire Wolf veriants, but if I'm poreing 20 tons into jets, I'd like a mech that can make use of them all the time; a brutal infighter that can jump into an enemy's face and dare her to take a shot with a +3 TMM into impenetrable armor while facing down something scary. The 6M wants to use its heaviest and most valuable asset to run away and open up space for its single LGR to operate.  If it had three I'd be game (I use the LGR Ontos more than any other assault tank, after all) but the 6M goes from a mech to soak up fire to a mech that seems like it would simply be ignored until the end phase of the game.

Now, mind, I've yet to try it (I only learned of it when I read your article, after all) so I can't say if I won't find it to be just as you say.  But, I do think it lacks a really great niche to fill, which makes me perhaps a little sad.
"For my military knowledge, though I'm plucky and adventury,
Has only been brought down to the beginning of the century..."

garhkal

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6684
Re: MotW: Sirocco
« Reply #29 on: 13 February 2017, 02:02:28 »
Eww, no.   I don't like my quad-Assaults getting in close w/ the enemy.
Lack of Arms & Torso-Twist is a major hindrance there.

That is true, IF it's left tanding after being smacked by the twin 20s!
And if they are UAC-20s, OUCH!!

It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

 

Register