Author Topic: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper  (Read 18506 times)

Iron Mongoose

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Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« on: 31 March 2017, 16:15:10 »
Mech of the Week: Grasshopper

First off, let me say that it’s good to be back after about five years, and as an aside that I hope you’ll forgive any rust that may have set in, or any failure to have absorbed some of the newest trends in these articles. 

That said, I don’t hope to make this about myself, because this week’s topic is a venerable, classic mech that deserves a good look and a lot of careful thought: the Grasshopper.  Here we have one of the oldest mechs in the game, debuting in 1986 in TRO3025, and it's long been my thought that looking at such an old mech demands a look at the context; while it is absolutely critically important to be give a sense of what the Grasshopper means to day, it is also desirable to see it as it would have been seen in the late 80s to understand what the Grasshopper should and does mean to many players.

The fiction repeatedly hails the Grasshopper as being very unusual as a jumping heavy, which is a claim that many look at as dubious, not the least coming in a month that has featured articles on the Falconer and Jinggau.  TRO25 also featured the heavy Quickdraw and Catapult, and assault weight Victor on its pages, while later variants have firmly enshrined the Thunderbolt (and to a lesser degree the Crusader) as a mech with jumping variants.  The later TRO25 revised even adds the extremely similar Guillotine on the very next page!  What we must remember, however, is that assault mechs were wildly rare in the 3rd Succession War era, restricted to the Ardan Sorteks of the world, the jumping T-Bolt was used mainly by the Eridani Light Horse, the Catapult is a support mech, and the Quickdraw was terrible then as now (a topic perhaps for its own article).  So the Grasshopper can perhaps been seen as the only wide spread jumping heavy.

More over, the Grasshopper offered some other capabilities that made it somewhat unique in its day.  The first to point out is heat dissipation.  Most jumpers in the single heat sink era noticed a significant spike when jumping.  Looking at the Phoenix Hawks and Griffins of the world, they built heat firing just their main weapon on the bounce, and while the AC5 mechs can, even in the 80s AC5s were a bit short on power.  The Grasshopper earns its heavy mech reputation mainly on the basis of mounting twelve tons of heat sinks, which equals its tonnage of weapons; a Grasshopper pilot need never fear to jump lest it build up too much heat.

The other key heavy mech aspect of the Grasshopper is its armor, which is positively slab like.  In an era where mounting full armor was more of a novelty, it comes frightfully close, being just a bit light in the legs with fairly well rounded torso armor.  It is a match for the famously tough Thunder Bolt in tonnage (the rear armor is a bit higher, which is reasonable for the infighting Grasshopper) and inferior only to such mechs as the even more famously tough Orion among heavies.  It is meaningly thicker skinned than such well known mechs as the Warhammer and Marauder, and even its competitor the Victor.  Even against Clan PPCs or GRs, it should be able to survive five or six torso hits given how crit packed it is, which adds up to quite a lot against old tech PPCs and AC5s.  It even mounts its largest weapon in the center torso, enabling it to fight on in at least some capacity until it is well and truly destroyed.

Now, with most mechs you lead with the weapons.  I was hesitant to do that here, because I fears that readers would do what I did many years ago: scoff at what seems more fit for a medium mech and ignore what is in fact very worthy of being called a heavy, and what is well capable of standing up to an assault.  The Grasshopper features a large laser, four medium lasers, and a LRM5 for support.  While on most mechs you call the LL out as the ‘primary weapon,’ I don’t see it as such on the Grasshopper; because it mounts so few weapons and so many heat sinks, the intention of closing quickly with the jets and then using its full battery of lasers all the time becomes clearly ‘primary.’  Sure, against a mech like a Hunchback you can sit back and snipe with the LL and LRMs, and no doubt that is a useful tactic, but you can also use the Atlas’ LRM20 for fire support, or the Archer’s MLs for infighting.  The Grasshopper wants to be close and dirty, it wants to use those medium lasers along side the Large.  It wants to be three or fewer hexes from its enemy blasting away, because there it can lay down 28 damage a turn, every turn, while itself soaking up all the return fire a mech can offer.  A quick look at my TRO39 (more inclusive than 25) doesn’t show me any mech under 85 tons (Battle Master and Stalker) that would regularly win such a pure slugging match. 

Of course, the Grasshopper has to be a team player.  The single LRM5 is a pretty sad offering as a weapon to cover closing, and in all but the roughest terrain it simply lacks the speed to close against contemporary line mechs (before XL engines, there was a significant homogeneity of speed, a theme I once explored in great depth and just can’t let go).  While a Grasshopper that gets in close to a Marauder or Warhammer will tend to be victorious, one that tries to close and must suffer three or four turns of fire may very well still lose, despite its legendary durability.  The while actual members of the order Caelifera seem to like plains and fields, the 70 ton mech needs hills and forests and other terrain to mask its approach.  With its jets, it can enter such terrain and so long as there are no long sight lines where a Griffin can snip be confidant of being able to out fight or out maneuver any opponent.  It also craves, as all mechs do, good support from the sort of mechs that it wants to beat up.  A few Marauders or Archers would go a long way.  None of this is a huge surprise, as any mech craves support, but more than many mechs of its era it really sells out and specializes in short ranged combat. 

TRO50U does offer us one old tech variant, which we’re told is a field variant that only came into being in 3040, despite being an intro tech mech that could have existed for hundreds of years.  Quite simply, the 5N removes the LRM5, which is largely an after thought anyway, and adds an extra medium laser and a PPC.  On the one hand, removing the ammo from the mech makes it that much harder to kill while upping the LL to a PPC adds power at range and makes the infighting mech that much more of a threat beyond ML range.  On the other, the old laser array had a bit of elegance since it had no medium range and was almost perfectly heat matched.  The new battery takes the Grasshopper out of its ice box, while the PPC’s minimum range makes it slightly less powerful at knife fighting range.  The lost of the LRM is to me enough of a positive that I’ve taken this mech many times, but I can’t help thinking its not what I would have done.  A good field refit, perhaps, but just a bit sloppy.

TRO3050’s showroom model and the key modern era upgrade is the 5J, and it is really a shining example of TRO50’s love of new tech and terrible designs.  I dare say the 5J may be one of the worst, as it does almost nothing positive.  The LRM5 is gone, replaced by a SSRM2, which just might have been good since the Grasshopper is historicly a brawler, but they mounted two tons of ammo.  Now, quick historical note, in the 90s Streak SRM2s could infact use infernos, so it’s superficaly plausible that the second ton could have been for that, but buy and large (and definatly in the modern era) two tones in about 1.8 tons too many.  Because of the streak nature of the system, it will take probably 200 shots to fire 100 rounds, which should take five or ten battles, and even a behind the lines raider in a guerilla war will take weeks and weeks to expend all that ammo.  The 5J also mounts an anti missile system, with only one ton of ammo, which might have also made sense given that the Grasshopper does need extra protection to close with its enemies.  Of course, back in the day that one tone of ammo would have gone by in about two turns, so that wouldn’t have been such a bad place to sink that extra ton of ammo.

Or, they could have just not spent that tonnage at all, because they found that weight by sacrificing lasers.  The Grasshopper mounts just two MLs, not four, and an ER LL.  If there were still four lasers, the ER large would be a mistake for ruining the heat curve, but the loss of the lasers makes it a non issue, while also having a devastating impact on the mech’s power that the addition of the SSRM2 just can’t make up.  The ER LL’s range might have paired nicely with the old LRMs, but they’re gone.  And since the mech now carries three tones of ammo, two of which will take a month to use, its more vulnerable than before (since CASE was not added).  Importantly, the 5J does not use double heatsinks, advanced armor or internal structure, an XL engine, or anything else. 

I simply don’t have the words to say how bad this mech is, even if the censortron were turned off.  There are quite a few mechs that became worse from 3025 to 3050, but this is one of the few that became nearly unusable.  There is a variant that drops a ton of streak ammo for C3, which the vastly more self aware TRO50U notes has absolutely no impact on performance, and I suppose if it’s all you have and you need a C3 spotter is workable (I’d dump the SSRM ammo and count on the Grasshopper’s rejuvenated survivability to keep it alive until its lance mates can win the battle) but its still not a genuinely good mech, but rather a poor mech that has a role it can play; many other mechs could do that job better, unless the role is to be sacrificial, in which case the mech is no huge loss.  Even the (also more self aware) TRO39 notes that old Grasshopper 5Hs outnumber 5Js three to one everywhere except the C3 using Combine.  The only surprise is that it isn’t 100-1. 

But, over the next few years, the question quickly became: was the greater threat to the Grasshopper TRO50, or TRO55 and 58?

Back in the day, the Grasshopper was every bit as mobile as most medium mechs.  It could expect to be matched with mechs like the Enforcer or Vindicator or Panther in its 4/6/4 movement category.  Starting with the fast 5/8 XL heavies in 55, it can expect to be left behind by mechs with greater power and range that it ever had.  While in the 20s few mechs had really overwhelming ranged power and few of them had great range, in the modern era there was a great expansion of ranged power.  ER PPCs and ER LLs (like the one mounted on the 5J) and Gauss rifles pushed range and power further, and DHS enabled mechs to mount more of them.  The Grasshopper always made its living as a specialist, but its ability to employ is specialization feel just as its ability to employ its specialization was crippled.  Sure, an old 5H can still make its living in the same way as the Hunchback, in extremely tight terrain striking from ambush against mechs with thrice the range but not more power.  If it can get close to a good modern mech like a Mad Dog or Jinggau it can make a brave go of it (its got less power than either, yes, but if it can keep the battle at very close range it has just enough toughness to just maybe pull it out), but where as it once took a really frightening mech like a Stalker to drive one off, that’s now coming down to mechs in what was once the Grasshopper’s own class, to mechs that are faster than the Grasshopper and can set the terms of engagement.

Quite simply, the Grasshopper was left behind by the progress of technology. 

In TRO50U, the Grasshopper made some attempts to evolve, with varying success, and attempts to shake off new toy syndrome, also with mixed success.

The first, and the one I like better, makes the Grasshopper more of what it already was.  Most importantly, DHS are used, which frees up weight even while increasing overall dissipation.  Seemingly an evolution of the C3 carrying “C” model, the 6K still mounts an ER LL and C3, but also five medium pulse lasers and an SSRM4 with CASE.  This corrects most of the key deficiencies of the 5J/C and makes the Grasshopper more of what it always was.  Inner Sphere MPLs have terrible range, but their accuracy is perfect for a mech indented to jump into range against some unsuspecting fool and unleash.  With a heat curve akin to the golden original, it can lay down as much as 46 damage, which is quite a modern number, even if you really do want to be right up next to your opponent to do it.  I really like this upgrade, since I think it keeps very much in the spirit of what the Grasshopper once was, even if the march of time as made it even more of a specialist than it once was.  Where the old Grasshopper could really work on any battlefield, given the right support, this new one just lacks the speed to close against most modern mechs, and there’s enough power on the modern battlefield to make trying very painful.  It has to fight from ambush, or in extremely built up terrain, or in cities.

The second offering is the jihad era 7K (somehow, the Grasshopper has really become something of a Combine mech, perhaps because they found a use for the accursed modern variants through C3) and it is in some ways the successor to the new toy aspect of the 5J.  Trying to reinvent itself, it uses two light PPCs and two snub nosed PPCs, along with a relic ML (and ER model, replacing the old missiles in the head) along with C3 and ECM, a concession no doubt to the Jihad era’s electronic battlefield.  Now, if you like the SNPPC, you may like this mech, but I must say no to both.  The Grasshopper lacks the mobility to get the snubbies into their sweet spot consistently, and they lack the overwhelming power not to need to be in that sweet spot.  Sure, the PPCs are all at short range at 6 hexes and it can hit for 35 damage, but that’s no more than most modern heavies, but the damage falls off quickly into mid range which is unlike many modern heavies.  The PPCs just can’t cut it at long/long-mid range, and it isn’t enough of a pure brawler to do what the older Grasshoppers do.  I’m not really sure exactly what this mech wants to do with its life.  It can be an ok mech for fighting other brawlers, using its PPCs against Hunchbacks and King Crabs, perhaps, but that’s a pretty narrow role to me.  I’m sure folks will tell me how they use this and that I’ve just misunderestimated it, but I don’t care for it.

TRO: Prototypes (which I don’t have, so please correct me of any errors I may make) gives us the set of the 7X/P.  The genesis X model really tries to modernize the mech and bring it into the ranks of the modern cavalry mechs.  First, you’ve got a light engine, which I do think works on the Grasshopper, since the Grasshopper has long been a mech that has relied on durability, but that now exists in an era when a mech that wants to have mobility needs something more than a standard engine.  The saved weight permits not an increase in running speed, which is unchanged, but rather improved jump jets.  I’ve long had mixed emotions about IJJs, but on the Grasshopper its hard to argue.  The X also uses a bloodhound AP, very fitting on a modern Grasshopper given their new infighting and ambush mission, to find enemies to shoot with its two Bombast lasers.  Now, Bombast lasers are terrible, objectively and subjectively.  This is simply a truth of the universe.  That means that this mech is terrible.  Yes, its mobile.  Yes, it can find enemies. Yes, its got a single MPL just to have one real gun.  Yes, its not a 5J (I may have thrown up a little in my mouth thinking about the two mechs side by side).  So what is good about the X?  That it gave us the P.

The 7P takes the X, strips off the stupid bombasts, and puts on X-Pulse lasers.  This is a good choice.  The Grasshopper, especially with the IJJs, is a mech that jumps, and that is a great pulse laser application.  There’s not that much power, sadly, even with three bonus ER MLs added, but for the first time since the Succession Wars the Grasshopper can actually out maneuver enemies.  This mech is a fantastic bully, running down Phoenix Hawks and such, a competent scout in rough terrain with its probe, or even an acceptable skirmisher even against larger mechs, since it retains solid armor (I think?) and combines an ability to hit with an ability to avoid being hit.   This mech is a good mech.  Its not the same as the old Grasshopper, it has evolved and become more modern, and I’d love to see an IJJ veriant with a bunch of old tech MLs for just blasting things, but time moves on and for perhaps the first time the Grasshopper has moved with it.

The Grasshopper also has two individual variants used by specific Mech Warriors.  I’m always hesitant to dwell on such variants, since they really shouldn’t be used too often, but they’re also often some of the most interesting, and they speak to the implied depth of the game, in that there are no doubt hundreds and thousand of such individual variants across the Inner Sphere, and these are just emblematic of that. 

The Gravedigger is mentioned in 50U, and is a modified 7K.  The C3 and ER laser are gone, two MPLs are added, and most importantly it has TSM.  I don’t really like the 7K, but at least Gravedigger knows what it wants to do: get close, and get physical.  A TSMed punch can cave in a head, and the only arm weapons are the minimum ranged light PPCs, making punching a good option.  The only key problem is that it hasn’t got a great suite a weapons for modulating the TSM, so you have to use heat sink shut down and careful planning, and as with many ad hoc field refits its not perfect, but it promises to be a lot of fun. 

The other is a mixed tech, behind the lines mech from Turning Points Luzerne (which I also don’t have).  It has three Clan ER LLs (all mounted centerline) and seemingly four Clan ER MLs. Though it does have DHS, it can’t act like a normal Grasshopper and fire all the lasers all time.  That said, with three Clan ER LLs it is seemingly the only Grasshopper with legitimate long ranged power, which is perfect for its role as a mech to harass Clan mechs. 

So, at the end of the day, what is the Grasshopper?  Or is it even one thing?

I think not.  Some mechs, the Archer, or perhaps the Marauder, have retained mostly the same character for more than three decades.  But what the Grasshopper once was is not what it now is.  Where it was once a genuinely mobile mech, it is now relatively average or even below average.  Where it was once a bit short ranged, it is now an extremely specialized in fighter.

Mainly, though, the Grasshopper was once a mech that one watched out for.  It was a mech that inspired genuine fear and respect.  You had to watch out, lest one get too close.  Now, that fear is gone.  One respects what it can do, sure, and one takes care not to let it do that, but where the Grasshopper was once a mech with unique power to do what it did, it’s now constantly over showed by newer mechs that have been designed to fight in the modern era with modern tactics.  Even the best, newest models, while still perfectly workable, don’t recapture the magic that the mech had in its prime.
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Karimancer

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #1 on: 31 March 2017, 16:29:31 »
Personally, I love the Grasshopper. It's long been one of my favorite Mechs. If not my favorite. Typically, in a SW game, I strip the LRM for a ML and two more heat sinks. I never use the dumb LRMs anyway.

Even in my Dark Age campaign I'm still using one. An old -5H. I swapped the lasers for ERs (including a 5th ERML for the LRM), added a targeting computer, ECM and DHS. Works pretty well actually. Thing can take a beating.

sadlerbw

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #2 on: 31 March 2017, 16:51:39 »
I have to get this off my chest: I prefer the Guillotine. That said, since most folks aren't ComStar and can't easily get one of those, the Grasshopper is a good substitute. I think the original is still my favorite, especially in the 3SW context. It is durable as heck, just mobile enough for a higher-end heavy, and it doesn't have crazy heat problems or dangerously un-crit-padded ammo. True, we could all have probably found something better to do with the tonnage than that LRM5, but even without making field mods, you can load it up with Smoke ammo and help create some cover on the way in. The 5J is the worst of the lot and I avoid it if possible, but really I don't mind any of the others. The 6K is a bit slow for its era, but still damn tough and a terror in city fights.

Since I do happen to have RS:Prototypes at hand, I can confirm that the 7P is, indeed, well armored. It is one single point shy of max armor on the CT, but everything else is fully loaded with armor. In fact, the 7P is a pretty decent variant. I'm not 100% sold on it's torso-mounted cockpit, but the improved jump jets and large X-Pulse lasers make for a useful, if hot, combo.
« Last Edit: 03 April 2017, 10:41:28 by sadlerbw »

Karimancer

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #3 on: 31 March 2017, 16:59:20 »
The 5J is an abomination that should be dumped in the same mass grave as the 3M Goliath and the WTH-2 Whitworth.

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #4 on: 31 March 2017, 17:01:09 »
First of all, IM, it's great to see you back at it!

I've always recognized the intro-Tech Grasshopper as a good -- even borderline great -- 'Mech for its era.  I'm wary when I encounter one because, well-employed, they can be a doozy to handle.  That being said, I've never been a fan.  The aesthetics of the 'Mech don't impress me, and I've always found the similar Guilotine much easier to handle; the swap of the meh LRM-5 for a crit-seeking SRM4 just made too much sense to me.

Outside of the original, I can't actually say I've ever played with or against a post-Helm Core variant.  As you say, they are all fairly lackluster compared to the pure, distilled knife-fighter-y-ness of the original.  It's one of those 'Mechs I think could have benefited from being re-engined; going up to 5/8/5 will give it the agility to play with the Invasion-era cavalry heavies, even if it would have to lose some of its durability by accepting an XL engine.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #5 on: 31 March 2017, 17:57:12 »
I like using the original in Introtech games, but by the time the 3050s roll around I usually switch out to using the Penetrator.
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Empyrus

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #6 on: 31 March 2017, 18:14:08 »
The original (or, well, the "original", more about this below) Grasshopper is good. Good enough it works even during the Dark Age... at least as long as one is aware of the single heat sinks and average mobility and damage and uses it appropriately. Comparatively low maintenance, good endurance. The LRM launcher offers utility options since the damage probably isn't worth it: Load it with Thunders, Smokes or Incendiary ammo as needed.

Of the upgrades, the only one i think is worthwhile is the 6K. It is a no-nonsense upgrade, considerable amount of extra firepower at close range. It may not be a line fighter thanks to lacking firepower at distance but i'm sure there's always use for a close combat specialist somewhere.

The 7P is almost good. The issue? The X-pulse lasers. Oddly enough, i think standard LPLs would have been better choice here. Like the good Grasshoppers, it is a close combat specialist so the addition of extra range for the pulse lasers is somewhat pointless, especially since it lacks adequate cooling capacity.
If it had standard LPLs, it could fire both of them and one ERML without heating up, or more if one is willing to risk extra heat. Or it could fire one LPL and three ERMLs without issues. With the X-pulses, its firing options are more severely limited or overheating happens faster. Or just slap the Snubbies from the 7K to replace the X-pulses, better damage and excellent short range.
Of course, even if it were more like how i wish it were, i wouldn't really bother with it. The 6K does its job. The IJJs do add range nicely but i don't think they're worth the added (logistical) complexity of torso cockpit and light fusion engine, the 6K is nicely though and cheap as it is.



So, now to the original, or more accurately, the prototype Grasshopper, which Iron Mongoose doesn't mention. Indeed, there is little to say, since officially the GHR-4R lacks stats and is only mentioned at passing in TRO3039. But apparently there is a BattleCorps story that features it and allows its reconstruction, unofficially. Thread here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=7624.msg173520#msg173520. Also, i have a custom thread for it somewhere, as i assume it would be.
Basically, it is like the GHR-5H but mounted ECM suite (the "stealth features" TRO39 mentions), ERLL, 4xMPL, LRM-5, CASE, ferro-fibrous armor, double heat sinks.
Pretty neat upgrade to the 5H, similar to what the GHR-6K is.
Note availability: The Cappies have it during the First Succession War, something neat to incorporate into 1st SW games.

YingJanshi

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #7 on: 31 March 2017, 18:19:27 »
Maybe I'm just crazy...But ever since I first saw it, I've thought the 5N better than the 5H. Yes, you lose the full point-blank damage potential; but I've found the PPC/ML a really good combo, use the PPC while making your way to the target or for harassing shots and the ML for the upclose knife fighting. Plus that split range bracketing makes heat management even easier.

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Empyrus

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #8 on: 31 March 2017, 18:41:33 »
Plus that split range bracketing makes heat management even easier.
Except the original doesn't even need to bracket. I mean, you're not going to waste time and heat firing that LRM at close combat. You generate from net zero to net +2 heat depending on whether you ran or jumped while firing all the lasers (the LRM averages 3 damage so losing it is irrelevant for most part).

The 5N doesn't have sufficient heat capacity to fire all weapons at close combat. Had it retained the large laser and simply replaced the LRM and its ammo with extra medium laser and added heat sinks, it would have really good damage output and no real heat buildup. As it is, you lose 5 to 10 damage unless you're willing to push the heat.
To be honest, i am willing to push the heat but i just don't see trading the 5H for 5N to be worth it. Costs more BV too, i'd rather spend the BV elsewhere probably.

The PPC does give it actual striking capability at long range (>15 hexes) unlike the LRM of the 5H but given the nature of the 'Mech, this is not particularly useful. But i also figure the LRM isn't there for damage really but utility: it can be loaded with special ammo like smoke to cover approach or retreat, or incendiaries for torching buildings during raids.

Iron Mongoose

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #9 on: 31 March 2017, 19:38:54 »
I'll address a few points real quick.

First of all, IM, it's great to see you back at it!

It's good to be back, though I think the rust does show.  Just got back from a walk, and realized several lines I'd wanted to add, and things that I wanted to say.  Really sorry I didn't work in the term "apotheosis" about the 6K.

As for the Guillotine, I got a throwaway line in early on, but there's two reasons I left it out.  One is that it is really extremely similar, and so most anything you'd say to address it would be pretty minor stuff.  Truth be told, I've gone back and forth over the years.  The weapons are clearly better, since the SRMs have a lot more use than the LRMs, but the extra armor has come in handy a few times, and being able to plink as you close is morally satisfying, if nothing else, so its mostly six of one, a half dozen of the other.  But, the other reason is that it is something of an anachronism to speak too much of the Guillotine as a legitimate competitor in the 80s, since the 4L doesn't see print until ten years after the Grasshopper, and TRO2750's 3N from 1989 wasn't really fluffed as something you'd see everyday (as those who mention it do of course clearly note).

Now that said, if the commentators want to debate which of the two is superior, or got superior upgrades (the once very similar mechs do diverge very greatly in the 3060s) then I think the world would be a richer place for it.

As for the 4R, I did notice that on the MUL (though I didn't connect the text in 39 with it) but being without stats, I didn't chose to dwell on it.  Honestly, I probably should have caught it to at least say something about it, but as I say, rust takes some getting off.  Looking at the text, it seems like they'd be about as common as the 6X model, mind (though vastly better).
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #10 on: 01 April 2017, 00:34:39 »
I've been playing the Grasshopper from the box set and I love it. Can't hit anything but it's as cool as an icebox, good armor, and mobile-ish. Trying to build a lance around two a Gallowglas and a Guillotine, to see how it runs.


Haven't gotten to play any of the variants but the only one I'd try would be the 7K or the Luzerne.

Solid write up

Frabby

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #11 on: 01 April 2017, 00:42:49 »
The Grasshopper is an odd duck that I've always found hard to classify. It is a superior duelist, but at the same time I found it lacking as a line heavy 'Mech. Its weapon suite lacks a true can opener (the single large laser doesn't cut it as a primary gun for a 70-tonner), and doesn't have proper critseekers either.

It's maybe best described as an oversized medium 'Mech. It reminds me of what I call "wannabe heavies", medium 'Mechs with relatively heavy firepower but only a heavy's 4/6/4 movement profile, and not quite a heavy's staying power (Vindicator, Enforcer, Whitworth, even the Panther; and the Centurion can't even jump). The Grasshopper makes the concept work better by actually being a heavy, with the armor to show. The Victor suggests the Grasshopper is even in the sweet spot here.
Its well-sinked weapon suite will overwhelm light and medium 'Mechs easily, but lacking critseekers the Grasshopper just needs too much time to grind down heavily-armed opponents.
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Empyrus

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #12 on: 01 April 2017, 00:46:58 »
Frankly, even during the late Star League and First Succession War eras, i think the Guillotine is a generalist/team player at least when it comes to style. The SRM is a crit-seeker and anti-vehicle weapon but the 'Mech lacks hole punchers (8 pts large laser doesn't quite cut it IMO). The Grasshopper is designed to be a long-endurance raider and guerrilla 'Mech, with focus on steady damage over time or hit and run attacks.

This is assuming Grasshopper 4R is ignored (which it should be, due to its limited production/prototype status), as it is arguably better than either the original Guillotine or downgraded one, or the GHR-5H. The double heat sinks, in case someone wonders, they just change the equation so much. EDIT Actually, not, after thinking a bit. It is good but it doesn't change the Grasshopper fundamentally.

EDIT Frabby made a good note above how the Grasshopper is not really suited for line combat. Low damage output. Makes me think that it is made to bully 'Mechs that are smaller than it, and maybe vehicles. It is a guerrilla and raider after all. It attacks outposts and occupying forces who probably are second-line forces with lower quality and weight equipment (eg 50 ton or less vehicles since transporting those is easier than transporting heavy and assault vehicles).
The Guillotine has always a tad more firepower but at the same time its lower armor and greater dependency on ammo make it more of a line combatant and generalist.

Post-Clan Invasion... The GHR-6K is, like i said, a no nonsense upgrade, makes the Grasshopper better at what it is good at already. Funny enough, the 6K arguably replaces all older model Guillotines offering similar capabilities but heavier armor. (BTW, the C3 module is something i regard as an option rather than "must use".) Limited availability though, unless you're FedSuns or Kurita or Rasalhague, you're outta luck. Personally i wouldn't bother with the other "upgrades", and for other factions i'm inclined to relegate the Grasshoppers to militias etc. and get some more modern equipment that is easily available. 6Ks find use in frontline units that need jump jets or close combat specialists.

The Guillotine 8D is good for sure. Again, one trades armor for firepower but thanks to the targeting computer, it is pretty good trade. For FedSuns, i'd say this is better option than the Grasshopper BUT the tarcomp makes it a premium unit arguably, at least early on in the Civil War. Also premium when it comes to BV...
The other Guillotines are questionable. The older ones are old and it shows. And the Word of Blake ones are, well, WoB 'Mechs, so they're odd. The WB/WB3 is not bad (WB2 is IMO) but i figure it is pretty obvious they're retrofits for older Guillotines to make them somewhat useful. Turns the 'Mech into a real generalist while at it.
Frankly i'd relegate the Guillotine (8D aside) to militias and second-line units mostly just like the Grasshoppers. They're still plenty useful for a long time but not really front-line material.

Don't get me wrong, i think both 'Mechs are pretty good even in their introductory level versions but they feel old. Contrast to the classics and their modern Project Phoenix variants. YMMV on their quality but for most part they feel like something you'd be using at front-lines. The Guillotines and Grasshoppers just lack that.
« Last Edit: 01 April 2017, 00:55:13 by Empyrus »

Frabby

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #13 on: 01 April 2017, 01:03:57 »
Oh, and one more note about availability: From what I understood, the GHR was always a pretty rare 'Mech, only found in Marik space in noteworthy numbers (and perhaps Liao). Small production run, factory destroyed. I believe it's not until the Civil War era that new Grasshoppsers came off an assembly line.
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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #14 on: 01 April 2017, 01:33:19 »
Great write up, I always loved the Grasshopper, its a close in knife fighter and a tough one at that, the 3050 upgrade though was a disaster and left it woefully undergunned.  The 6K though is superb, but unlike yaself I like the one with the snubbies.  With the Grasshoppers mobility the snubbies let it dance around and abuse their lovely short range. 

Not sure about the one with the X-pulses, they are too much of a heat hog for my liking.  Thank you for the write up :) It was a great article :)
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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #15 on: 01 April 2017, 01:56:35 »
Oh, and one more note about availability: From what I understood, the GHR was always a pretty rare 'Mech, only found in Marik space in noteworthy numbers (and perhaps Liao). Small production run, factory destroyed. I believe it's not until the Civil War era that new Grasshoppsers came off an assembly line.

According the the MUL, the early variants of the 'Hopper are all IS General mechs.  It isn't until the 6K and 7K that you actually see them become more restricted in availability, and that's to the DC (and the FRR and FedCom in the case of the 6K).
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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #16 on: 01 April 2017, 02:15:14 »
It's a shame there wasn't a Royal Grasshopper.
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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #17 on: 01 April 2017, 02:35:13 »
As for availability, it was definitely a lostech mech, with the factory destroyed. Yes, its on the general list and no-one seems to me to have more than anyone else, but that's to to say anyone has more than a few hundred. Though they're also noted to be commonly deployed by lances and popular with mercenaries, which hints it's not entirely uncommon.

As for line combat, it has higher average damage in its element than a Marauder or even an Awesome (28/turn). The key difference is that its optimum range is very close, while the Awesome and Marauder want to be 18 hexes out.  No, there is no one key gun, but taken in its totality the laser array is as potent as anything any other heavy can boast on a sustainable basis.
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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #18 on: 01 April 2017, 02:48:15 »
I fell in love with the GHR-5H Grasshopper when I was assigned one on the old Battletech MUSEs back around 1992 to 1994 range (can't remember the exact year anymore, or which MUSE.  Wasn't Luthien 3058, 'cause I drove a BLR-1G there), when my character was part of the 3rd Proserpina.  Man, that thing was a blast, and you use it exactly like Iron Mongoose said: get close, keep firing the lasers for everything you're worth, and kick the other guys to death.

I've tried the GHR-5N, and it's not bad, and it's probably a more well-rounded 'Mech, though the tradeoff up-close of a medium laser in place of the large laser does reduce your close-in firepower.  That said, you're now a full-on zombie, so that's nice.  It's rapidly become my favorite Grasshopper.

The GHR-5J....man, if they'd removed the arm-mounted lasers, I may have been able to forgive them, because it would open up your arms to allow you to alpha strike and punch.  As it stood before, you were usually better off using the lasers in the arms and kicking instead.

It's kind of funny, because it strikes me that the TDR-5SE was probably an effort to create a 'Mech like the Grasshopper, but on a more common platform.  I would've figured the larger LRM rack would've been more useful than the LRM-5, but I've found that neither is actually all that useful for long.
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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #19 on: 01 April 2017, 05:43:45 »
Always like the Grasshopper, but when I understood that it makes it mark over time not in one turn that's when it I started using it well.  Some mechs are all about putting you down now, but a Grasshopper kills more slowly by sticking to you. 

Now I have never understood why there was never a LPL and other big Gun Grasshopper variant.  The Grasshopper is one of the few oginal Mechs that could make effective use of a LPL.

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #20 on: 01 April 2017, 05:46:18 »
No, there is no one key gun, but taken in its totality the laser array is as potent as anything any other heavy can boast on a sustainable basis.
But them Bubble-of-Death alley mugger designs usually rely on an AC/20 that can deliver with a vengeance (UrbanMech-60L, Hunchback, Victor) - and the idea isn't to wear down the opponent in a stand-up duel, but to kill them in one fell swoop. Preferrably by putting an AC/20 shot through their head or rear CT armor.

The Grasshopper is kinda unique in that it delivers more evenly spread-out damage, and has the armor to sustain such a knife-fighting range battle and outlast its opponent. It will usually overwhelm any light or medium 'Mech within 3 to 5 turns.
But the Grasshopper is utterly incapable of killing its prey with one single round of ambush fire, it has to wear them down. That means its own armor will suffer in the process, and it won't outfight more than two opponents in this fashion before it seriously needs to replenish its own armor. It's a different kind of thinking really.
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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #21 on: 01 April 2017, 07:45:07 »
The advantage to the Grasshoppers dispersed damage is that if you're in a Hunchback and you go BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!! and then miss, you're basically up a foul smelling creek without a paddle.

The Grasshopper thanks to its multiple weapon mounts can blaze away and if you miss with a laser, who cares, there's 3 - 4 more blazing away at the same time.
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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #22 on: 01 April 2017, 08:10:21 »
The O.G. Grasshopper and probably a couple of variants screams 'safety', and indeed you can give it to a scrub and it's perhaps more likely to come back home than a lot of other Introductory Mechs out there. That's not a bad thing at all.

Compared with the widely-worshipped TDR-5S Thunderbolt, a GHR-5H does pretty similar damage up close - the only place it misses out really is the LRM-15 and MGs. Likewise the WHM-6R Warhammer might juuust edge it out on firepower if those SRMs roll well, and that's a pretty big IF... and both Mechs need time to cool down after.

If I had a pristine GHR-5H, I'd drop the LRM5 for another medium laser and 2 more heat sinks for a total of 24. You can now jump and fire all lasers twice, shed the large laser to cool off and repeat nearly indefinitely, or push the heat curve however you like. (Or I could take a stock 5N really...)

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #23 on: 01 April 2017, 08:26:59 »
It's a shame there wasn't a Royal Grasshopper.
The 4R would have been that effectively, though not limited to Royals per MUL (but then not all Royals were exclusive).

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #24 on: 01 April 2017, 08:31:21 »

Physical attacks have not been brought up much, but I think they are a key element of Hopper's attractiveness, along  and in combination with its thick armor, laser battery, and jump capability.  Lighter mechs can carry an equivalent laser array, but the Hopper's weight allows it to add a 14-point kick.  That kick, in combination with a leg hit or two from the laser array, can gimp many mechs in a single turn.  And with its armor and jump capability, the Hopper can bring that crippling kick/laser salvo combination to bear faster and more reliably than most 3025-era mechs.

My favorite Grasshopper modification is to move the medium lasers in the arms to the torso, freeing up the battlefists for punch attacks.  The kick is more reliable, but if two punches land on an opponent's head, it's gone -- a potent threat.

It's too bad that upgrades have not been kind to what was once the perfect "point position" mech for heavier lances, and especially that they have not well-leveraged the Hopper's infighting and physical attack capabilities.  The Hopper is a natural for the Battlefists quirk, a production TSM variant in combination with its laser array (including that gawd-awful Bombast Laser variant), superchargers, a 5/8/5 light fusion upgrade, claws or talons, or AES.
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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #25 on: 01 April 2017, 09:08:53 »
The Grasshopper is one of the few 'Mechs that could benefit from small lasers: It would get yet better in its role if the arm-mounted medium lasers and/or the LRM were exchanged for a battery of torso-mounted small lasers, while keeping totally in line with its core identity.

But that's perhaps better discussed in the workshop thread.
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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #26 on: 01 April 2017, 09:30:27 »

As for line combat, it has higher average damage in its element than a Marauder or even an Awesome (28/turn). The key difference is that its optimum range is very close, while the Awesome and Marauder want to be 18 hexes out.  No, there is no one key gun, but taken in its totality the laser array is as potent as anything any other heavy can boast on a sustainable basis.
Personally I never liked the GHR "No big guns like MAD or CRD or WHM, it's a bigger, slower PHX" until I realized that fact regarding damage / turn. I ran an ATB campaign and had one shoved into a heavy line lance, it reliably dealt more damage than any of its compatriots. I shoved smoke rounds into the LRM to give the lance cover into position. Dastardly and deadly.
I really want to run two TBT with a GHR and either a WHM or MAD next.

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #27 on: 01 April 2017, 13:32:28 »
I may be a heretic here, but I have gotten a lot of entertainment in an AtB campaign by pulling the LRM-5 and a couple of heat sinks, moving an arm ML to the head, and adding a hatchet...
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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #28 on: 01 April 2017, 19:14:27 »
The original Grasshopper was good close up machine, i think is perfect for city fighting and wooded areas.
I've used 5J, just used it as a sniper when i got stuck with it.  The 6K and 7K are decent machines.  6K is  close-in attack machine as well, but it's has more fire power bring to bare.

7K I've only used once, which feels more like a generalist to me, it can bring the hurt train if if gets into 6 range with all it's weapons (mostly in short range). I do like Subbies.  I think it's decent but i think it maybe too slow for a Jihad-Dark Age era.

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Re: Mech of the Week: The Grasshopper
« Reply #29 on: 01 April 2017, 19:41:10 »
The O.G. Grasshopper and probably a couple of variants screams 'safety', and indeed you can give it to a scrub and it's perhaps more likely to come back home than a lot of other Introductory Mechs out there. That's not a bad thing at all.

It's so easy to manage, it's great for newbies. You can't overheat unless you really try, and you have enough armor and mobility to bail you out of a mistake. The only argument against it is that it's too easy: you won't get any practice managing your heat.

It took me decades to warm up to the Grasshopper. "What is that weird thing, why does it have so few weapons? I'll just turn the page and look at the Warhammer again." But now I think it might be the best 3025 heavy. BV2 endorses the 5N as such, for what that's worth.

 

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