Other expressions of the Cobra ancient Egypt theme?

[Alan Grant]

For whatever reason Clan Cloud Cobra has a bit of an ancient Egypt thing going on. I'm not even sure why. They have a Pharoah Keshik, they have Gamma Galaxy the Pharaoh's Sentries.

Building off that, or playing off that a bit.. what other ways might that manifest in Cobra culture or society? Not just warriors, thinking all parts of Cobra society here.

Part of what inspired this train of thought, was a desire to flesh out the Cobras a bit more, perhaps for a character or game. However I also happened to be watching something on Victorian era British Empire, and it touched in their fascination with the Ancient Egyptians, and some of the things that happened as a result of that. From fashion to a reevaluation of the opinions of cats to more. Yes there was some bad stuff too, stealing of artifacts etc. I acknowledge that. The point is just it provided a great example of how culture A could pull from culture B and disseminate pieces of that culture throughout their society. It made me wonder if there might be more of that going on with the Cobras and the whole Ancient Egypt thing than I had previous considered.

I've always found Clan Cloud Cobra interesting, but it occurred to me that I've never gone any deeper on this aspect of it.

Opinions and creative thinking encouraged here. Just looking for a fun discussion.

[HappyDaze]

Well, have you considered looking to GIJoe for inspiration?

[Alan Grant]

Well, have you considered looking to GIJoe for inspiration?

I get the "Cobra!" battle cry thing, and some character costume stuff, but what's the ancient egyptian tie-in? Or is there one?

I haven't thought about G.I. Joe much in a very long time. Help me out. I feel like I'm missing something. Not opposed to broadening the topic.

[Gaiiten]

I have ever thought of religious knight orders as to Templers.

[HappyDaze]

I get the "Cobra!" battle cry thing, and some character costume stuff, but what's the ancient egyptian tie-in? Or is there one?

I haven't thought about G.I. Joe much in a very long time. Help me out. I feel like I'm missing something. Not opposed to broadening the topic.

Not really any ancient Egyptian tie, although Serpentor may have had genes from some ancient Pharoah (along with everybody else). Maybe the Cloud Cobras could have their own Serpentor with mixed genes from all of their best Bloodnames. Basically an elstar experiment taken even further. Maybe?

[tassa_kay]

I don't really think the Cobras use the pharaonic iconography beyond a superficial divine aesthetic a la their use of, say, Mount Olympus for Delta Galaxy, and nothing really indicates to me that there's anything distinctly "Egyptian" about them as a Clan, or that the aesthetic even goes too far beyond these examples. If anything, I think the use of the Egyptian aesthetic is probably a combination of 1) their status as "the religious Clan" and 2) a lazy aesthetic to slap onto a snake Clan (Egyptian cobras being a thing that exists, also the goddess Wadjet being a cobra-headed goddess). We don't even have any Cloisters that lean into this aspect of human religion, sadly, which might've helped make a better case.

Not really any ancient Egyptian tie, although Serpentor may have had genes from some ancient Pharoah (along with everybody else). Maybe the Cloud Cobras could have their own Serpentor with mixed genes from all of their best Bloodnames. Basically an elstar experiment taken even further. Maybe?

Elstars are an Inner Sphere Clan circa Dark Age thing. I highly doubt the Home Clans are going to look too kindly on genetic experimentation like that post-WoR, most especially the Cobras, who were the ones to expose the Scorpions for their genetic experiments which led to their Abjuration.

[HappyDaze]

Elstars are an Inner Sphere Clan circa Dark Age thing. I highly doubt the Home Clans are going to look too kindly on genetic experimentation like that post-WoR, most especially the Cobras, who were the ones to expose the Scorpions for their genetic experiments which led to their Abjuration.

Their issue was that Goliath Scorpion used genetic material from the tainted Inner Sphere. Using 100% non-tainted homeworld genes should be fine.

[tassa_kay]

Their issue was that Goliath Scorpion used genetic material from the tainted Inner Sphere. Using 100% non-tainted homeworld genes should be fine.

I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption. The Wars of Reaving and the Society's genetic shenanigans are going to make the Homeworld Clans very gun-shy to tinker too much with their genetics. Mixing a whole bunch of genes together in a soup to push the limits on the human genome is precisely the sort of thing that gets scientists Annihilated.

[HappyDaze]

I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption. The Wars of Reaving and the Society's genetic shenanigans are going to make the Homeworld Clans very gun-shy to tinker too much with their genetics. Mixing a whole bunch of genes together in a soup to push the limits on the human genome is precisely the sort of thing that gets scientists Annihilated.

Well, that's just like your assumption...

[tassa_kay]

Well, that's just like your assumption...

I prefer to call it an educated guess based on the events of the Wars of Reaving, the Homeworld Clans' very clear attitudes towards genetic experimentation post-Society, the few examples of it actually happening being ruthlessly stomped on, and the fact that there's absolutely nothing to suggest any of this is even on the table. It's very much a "read the room" scenario, and I feel like it misses the entire point of that aspect of the Wars of Reaving to just assume that they'd be A-OK with this sort of genetic nonsense.

[Ghaz]

For whatever reason Clan Cloud Cobra has a bit of an ancient Egypt thing going on. I'm not even sure why.

Could have been a soccer fan at FASA, possibly naming Khan Windham Khatib after soccer player Mahmoud El Khatib who is Egyptian, and with the other definition of 'Khatib' the rest of the Cloud Cobra background just fell into place...

Yeah, it's a bit of a stretch but it's the best I've got... 

[Alan Grant]

**LIGHT SPOILER WARNING** Going to reference a couple specific items from Star Wars Andor Season 2. really just setting/set design spoilers but still, being polite here.


Let me frame it a different way. I (and I'm sure a lot of people right now) are watching Star Wars Andor Season 2. The behind-the-scenes Features on Disney+ have shown they put a lot of thought into designing the sets, the fashion, and even cultures for some of the things depicted. Depicting a Chandrila setting/wedding. There's a how and a why to the set design, use of circles and influences from nature (in contrast to the Imperial use of squares, triangles, a very artificial and sterile vibe) and even the fashion. The show has also been depicting the culture and asthetic of the planet Ghorman. They apparently went for a different vibe pulling from ancient greece for a few architectural concepts and some other European influences for other things. With the language being very "almost french" but with new words. They even heavily used French actors to depict Ghormans, they just gave them a new vocabulary to speak.

So even if you haven't seen the show, think about that for a moment. The way influences are pulled in to help flesh out a fictional culture.

I am wondering if something like that were to exist within the Cobras and the ancient egyptian thing, what forms it might take. This could be very specific ideas. It could be furniture design...<shrug>


Personally, I've had a couple thoughts contemplating this overnight. We know some of the Bloodname House Temples look like pyramids (as depicted in Wars of Reaving). The Kerensky Bloodname Chapel at least did.

We also know the Anasaz Cloister's Supreme Being is a triumvirate of the two Kerenskys' and The Way.

I don't think the Anasaz Cloister built or designed the Kerensky Bloodname Chapel. But could these things be related? Could the new Anasaz Cloister at one point have looked around for iconography for their cloister to adopt and went "It's a pyramid... we're pyramid people now." <LAUGH sign blinks at you>

ALSO... Tanite Worlds... Tanis... <scans the room with a smirk, wondering what parts of peoples' brains will be triggered by this>

Tassa, I get your point about the possibility that they just threw around a few loose references, and you may be right. But I had an additional reference to tack on. Maybe it's still just superficial and loose, or maybe this makes it go deeper, I'm not sure. I know you don't like headcanon. You like canon facts, so maybe this is a great question for you specifically. Just how Egyptian-themed do you think the Tanite Worlds were/are? I don't think the answer is zero percent, personally. Even if some planet names just moves the needle to 1%.

[Alan Grant]

Could have been a soccer fan at FASA, possibly naming Khan Windham Khatib after soccer player Mahmoud El Khatib who is Egyptian, and with the other definition of 'Khatib' the rest of the Cloud Cobra background just fell into place...

Yeah, it's a bit of a stretch but it's the best I've got... 

Ok, I like where your head is at. I wasn't aware of either of those things. When I have time I'll have to mull these over more. Thank you!

[tassa_kay]

Tassa, I get your point about the possibility that they just threw around a few loose references, and you may be right. But I had an additional reference to tack on. Maybe it's still just superficial and loose, or maybe this makes it go deeper, I'm not sure. I know you don't like headcanon. You like canon facts, so maybe this is a great question for you specifically. Just how Egyptian-themed do you think the Tanite Worlds were/are? I don't think the answer is zero percent, personally.

I don't think they're particularly Egyptian-themed at all, honestly. Tanis was named for Kylie Tanis, a vocal opponent of the Pollux Proclamation, and there isn't anything in the Tanite Worlds that suggests Egypt in any way. My brain first went "What about Khartoum?", the second colony founded in the Tanite Worlds, but the real-world Khartoum's connection to Egypt is a pretty tenuous one at best. So while it might not be zero percent, I'm not going to say it's any more than one percent.

[Alan Grant]

Thanks for looking into that Tassa. It was worth exploring at least.

Off-forum on this topic, someone suggested that maybe the Cloud Cobra is descended from the Egyptian Cobra, and that Clan Cloud Cobra in turn just became enamored with the Egyptian Cobra's place in Egyptian culture and mythology. He noted that the Cobra was a symbol of the Pharaoh's power and right to rule.

Regardless of whether the species has a direct heritage link or not, he also noted that maybe this is a case of the Clan, a Clan that likes to examine religions, religious beliefs, belief systems etc. Perhaps just embracing something that is a symbol akin to their totem animal. That doesn't happen to be one of the Cloisters.

By embracing something that exists only in history, (if) it is not the belief system of any one Cloister, they don't put one cloister on a pedestal. They focused on the Cobra's place in mythology. Rather than the species directly (the physical animal and it's traits) like some Clans do.

He compared it to the Steel Vipers, which seem to embrace the snake. Or types of snakes, and venom and things literal snake-related. The Cobras went more for the Cobra and what it represents as a symbol.

It's an interesting thought, so I thought I'd share. I haven't made up my mind on anything.


The same person then went "OR..." and also suggested that maybe the person who did the writeup on Clan Cloud Cobra just made it one big nod to the movie Raiders of the Lost Ark. The city of Tanis, Indy being afraid of snakes, facing what his Egyptian friend called "Asps" (Egyptian Cobras) in that place where the Ark was hidden. Which had big statues of Egyptian gods or mythological figures.

It was a big joke, the conversation had degenerated into silliness, I laughed, but now I'm like "huh..." <taps chin with exagerated contemplative face>

[tassa_kay]

That’s not an unreasonable thought re: the cobra as a symbol. Both the steel viper and the star adder are pretty prominently spoken of by their eponymous Clans for their traits, the viper for its venom and for its constriction, the adder for being an implacable hunter… not really so the cloud cobra.