Author Topic: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III  (Read 85720 times)

tassa_kay

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3175
  • Karianna Schmitt has no time for your headcanon.
    • My Facebook page!
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #570 on: 07 June 2023, 10:49:21 »
They aren't? From what I understood is that the Horses interact with their IS population and they even recruit IS people into their ranks (those that finish the Old Regret training camp which admittetly aren't many)

No, they really aren't, not in any appreciable way. It's noted that while some natives have gone through Old Regret, there's a lack of real integration between the Horses and the natives and thus the Horses question their loyalty. The Horses are also dealing with a dual economy: their own, and a robust black market (which the Horses unofficially look the other way on) for all the things the natives can't get from the Horses. There's a pretty clear divide between the Horses and the native inhabitants of their OZ, and of all the Clans, the Horses are the most separated by far from the Spheroids in their realm.
"Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it." - Mike Tyson

My Personal Units: Thuggee Warrior House Nagah (Capellan Confederation), 29th Blood Drinkers (Clan Blood Spirit), Nightmare Galaxy (Clan Hell's Horses), 1st Raven Rook Cluster (Raven Alliance)
Favorite Factions: Capellan Confederation • Clan Blood Spirit • Clan Smoke Jaguar • Clan Hell's Horses • Raven Alliance • Fronc Reaches • Rim Worlds Republic • Magistracy of Canopus
Favorite Characters: Malvina Hazen • Kali Liao • Katherine Steiner-Davion • Anastasia Kerensky • Danai Liao-Centrella • Karianna Schmitt • Lady Death • Tara Campbell • Katana Tormark
Favorite Units: The Golden Ordun • Wolf Hunters • 1st Horde Cluster • 1st Rasalhague Bears • Thuggee Warrior Houses • Hikage • Raptor Keshik • Kara's Scorchers • 1st Star Sentinels

Metallgewitter

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1504
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #571 on: 07 June 2023, 14:14:06 »
Tamar Rising describes it best.  Under Jade Falcon rule most places did okay when Malvina and her Golden Ordun expanded they basically enslaved anyone worth taking and smashed everything in their path.  For some of her warriors if you breathed wrong you got the snot kicked out of you.

The people in the original Falcon OZ did ok maybe even better. they had even chances to get up in the society if they had managed to join the military. But the newly conquered people. They got the boot especially if they dared to resist. Probably a difference between living for decades under Falcon thumb or just recently. Remember Operation Audacity? Adam Steiner attacked Malibu and the Malibu goverment led by Lyrans denied them landing wanting to keep living under Falcon rule
« Last Edit: 07 June 2023, 14:15:49 by Metallgewitter »

HobbesHurlbut

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3089
  • Live Free or Die Hard
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #572 on: 07 June 2023, 17:37:26 »
Hello Hell's Horses! I see HH doesn't have an amphibious ProtoMech. I was wondering how you folks want to do it.
Quad? Medium, heavy, or super-heavy? Obviously, it got to have UMUs. There's the multi-purpose missile ammo for missile launchers, the same stuff that the Undine BA has for its launcher. And of course, give it the name Hippocampus.
Clan Blood Spirit - So Bad Ass as to require Orbital Bombardments to wipe us out....it is the only way to be sure!

Sjhernan3060

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1774
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #573 on: 07 June 2023, 18:31:47 »
I have picked up my first batch of gnome battle armor have you used it and if so how did it fare?

ArkRoyalRavager

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3666
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #574 on: 08 June 2023, 03:11:05 »
Hello Hell's Horses! I see HH doesn't have an amphibious ProtoMech. I was wondering how you folks want to do it.
Quad? Medium, heavy, or super-heavy? Obviously, it got to have UMUs. There's the multi-purpose missile ammo for missile launchers, the same stuff that the Undine BA has for its launcher. And of course, give it the name Hippocampus.

Seyla! A fun idea, but realistically too niche to make it into mass production

wantec

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3873
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #575 on: 08 June 2023, 07:17:06 »
Undewater units are a bit tricky for ProtoMechs. They can use regular walking movement, but there are none that mount UMUs. The missiles can easily swap out missile ammo for torpedoes, but jump jets can't be easily swapped for UMUs. However, if you wanted to make it work for your own games, you could fluff that with a day or two of prep, the techs modify some existing Protos by swapping the JJ for UMUs.
BEN ROME YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD, I READ YOUR BOOK!


jklantern

  • LAM of Shame
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3408
  • Designated Snack Officer of the Diamond Khanate
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #576 on: 08 June 2023, 09:20:04 »
No, they really aren't, not in any appreciable way. It's noted that while some natives have gone through Old Regret, there's a lack of real integration between the Horses and the natives and thus the Horses question their loyalty. The Horses are also dealing with a dual economy: their own, and a robust black market (which the Horses unofficially look the other way on) for all the things the natives can't get from the Horses. There's a pretty clear divide between the Horses and the native inhabitants of their OZ, and of all the Clans, the Horses are the most separated by far from the Spheroids in their realm.

This is strange to me, because I swear I remember the Horses being generally good to their lower castes in FM CC.  But then, Lower Castes isn't exactly the same as "Inner Sphere Population."
I'm not sure how long you've been around on the forums, though you have a thousand posts. Never take anything JKlantern says seriously unless it's about food.

CJC070

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1079
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #577 on: 08 June 2023, 10:04:15 »
This is strange to me, because I swear I remember the Horses being generally good to their lower castes in FM CC.  But then, Lower Castes isn't exactly the same as "Inner Sphere Population."

A thought has occurred to me is the CHH left their forces separate so they could quickly leave (with all their dependants) and shoot for Terra.  Of course that did not happen and what we are seeing is a habit created from an idea that never happened.
 

tassa_kay

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3175
  • Karianna Schmitt has no time for your headcanon.
    • My Facebook page!
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #578 on: 08 June 2023, 11:16:25 »
A thought has occurred to me is the CHH left their forces separate so they could quickly leave (with all their dependants) and shoot for Terra.  Of course that did not happen and what we are seeing is a habit created from an idea that never happened.

I don't think this is or was ever the case. The Horses had been set up like that since their initial permanent move to the Inner Sphere, and they were pretty solidly Warden at that time (the rank-and-file always were, and they'd just finished cleaning out their Crusader leadership). In fact, the first time we see the Crusader fire being awakened in them again was when Malvina got her hooks into them.

The reason the Horses kept themselves separate initially was because their "DropShip" cities sprung up around their semi-permanent camps that they set up during the initial invasion of the OZs, and the Horses consciously stayed in those enclaves and took a hands-off policy because 1) the Wolves and Falcons had done the opposite, 2) they were still recovering from the circumstances that brought them there in the first place and 3) the Horses were already naturally inclined to treat them better because of their own inter-caste relations.

It all circles back to the point Craig was making in the new book: the Horses don't have a purpose, haven't had a purpose for a long time now, and now that they've rejected the ilClan, they're even more directionless.
« Last Edit: 08 June 2023, 12:04:49 by tassa_kay »
"Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it." - Mike Tyson

My Personal Units: Thuggee Warrior House Nagah (Capellan Confederation), 29th Blood Drinkers (Clan Blood Spirit), Nightmare Galaxy (Clan Hell's Horses), 1st Raven Rook Cluster (Raven Alliance)
Favorite Factions: Capellan Confederation • Clan Blood Spirit • Clan Smoke Jaguar • Clan Hell's Horses • Raven Alliance • Fronc Reaches • Rim Worlds Republic • Magistracy of Canopus
Favorite Characters: Malvina Hazen • Kali Liao • Katherine Steiner-Davion • Anastasia Kerensky • Danai Liao-Centrella • Karianna Schmitt • Lady Death • Tara Campbell • Katana Tormark
Favorite Units: The Golden Ordun • Wolf Hunters • 1st Horde Cluster • 1st Rasalhague Bears • Thuggee Warrior Houses • Hikage • Raptor Keshik • Kara's Scorchers • 1st Star Sentinels

Metallgewitter

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1504
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #579 on: 08 June 2023, 12:31:02 »
There is the point that the Horses were often looked at as a "follower Clan". They followed the stronger Clans without much own initiative or direction. James Cobb somehow broke them out of that after he had realized that they were played by the Wolves. And what then followed is known: they revenged themselves on the Wolves by carving out a nice OZ. And then they somehow fell into complacency. You might think that rejecting Alaric would be a very clear direction but it seems they struggle with their current leadership. Though what might happen if another Cobb takes over? Revenge oin the Wolves 2 Electric boogaloo?

tassa_kay

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3175
  • Karianna Schmitt has no time for your headcanon.
    • My Facebook page!
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #580 on: 08 June 2023, 12:34:47 »
Though what might happen if another Cobb takes over? Revenge oin the Wolves 2 Electric boogaloo?

I certainly hope BattleTech can do better than to just repeat James Cobb's storyline with Peter Cobb... but so far, that appears to be exactly what's coming.
"Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it." - Mike Tyson

My Personal Units: Thuggee Warrior House Nagah (Capellan Confederation), 29th Blood Drinkers (Clan Blood Spirit), Nightmare Galaxy (Clan Hell's Horses), 1st Raven Rook Cluster (Raven Alliance)
Favorite Factions: Capellan Confederation • Clan Blood Spirit • Clan Smoke Jaguar • Clan Hell's Horses • Raven Alliance • Fronc Reaches • Rim Worlds Republic • Magistracy of Canopus
Favorite Characters: Malvina Hazen • Kali Liao • Katherine Steiner-Davion • Anastasia Kerensky • Danai Liao-Centrella • Karianna Schmitt • Lady Death • Tara Campbell • Katana Tormark
Favorite Units: The Golden Ordun • Wolf Hunters • 1st Horde Cluster • 1st Rasalhague Bears • Thuggee Warrior Houses • Hikage • Raptor Keshik • Kara's Scorchers • 1st Star Sentinels

Angrii

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 166
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #581 on: 08 June 2023, 14:25:16 »
It would still be better than the current state of affairs.
Welcome to interesting times

tassa_kay

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3175
  • Karianna Schmitt has no time for your headcanon.
    • My Facebook page!
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #582 on: 08 June 2023, 14:28:50 »
Meh. I'll take not-medicore, not-repetitive storytelling over "my faction is 'winning'" any day of the week. Right now, I can't even tell James Cobb and Peter Cobb apart as characters, and that's not a good thing.
« Last Edit: 08 June 2023, 14:32:58 by tassa_kay »
"Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it." - Mike Tyson

My Personal Units: Thuggee Warrior House Nagah (Capellan Confederation), 29th Blood Drinkers (Clan Blood Spirit), Nightmare Galaxy (Clan Hell's Horses), 1st Raven Rook Cluster (Raven Alliance)
Favorite Factions: Capellan Confederation • Clan Blood Spirit • Clan Smoke Jaguar • Clan Hell's Horses • Raven Alliance • Fronc Reaches • Rim Worlds Republic • Magistracy of Canopus
Favorite Characters: Malvina Hazen • Kali Liao • Katherine Steiner-Davion • Anastasia Kerensky • Danai Liao-Centrella • Karianna Schmitt • Lady Death • Tara Campbell • Katana Tormark
Favorite Units: The Golden Ordun • Wolf Hunters • 1st Horde Cluster • 1st Rasalhague Bears • Thuggee Warrior Houses • Hikage • Raptor Keshik • Kara's Scorchers • 1st Star Sentinels

Metallgewitter

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1504
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #583 on: 09 June 2023, 02:26:42 »
Meh. I'll take not-medicore, not-repetitive storytelling over "my faction is 'winning'" any day of the week. Right now, I can't even tell James Cobb and Peter Cobb apart as characters, and that's not a good thing.

Ok then we get another great Ghost Bear hero loosing his personal duel against a 4 legged Mech (this time a Balius) and then becoming new Khan of the Horses? Or perhaps with a bit different flavor creating a new state out of the Horses and part of the Dominion calling it the Hell Bear Dominion?

And don't we get a similar retelling of other storylines as well? Like the Dragoons getting spurned by their paymasters and then swearing bloody revenge? Sure this times it's the Wolves and the Dragoons but it has a similarity betwen that and the Dragoons and the Combine. Though this time no shouting match between their leaders

ArkRoyalRavager

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3666
  • Ravaging the enemies of House Davion
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #584 on: 09 June 2023, 08:23:34 »
Exactly. The Suns and Combine are just reliving the 1st SW too

Church14

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1097
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #585 on: 09 June 2023, 08:37:42 »
Exactly. The Suns and Combine are just reliving the 1st SW too

I do realize that when the same enemies are fighting at the same border, it’s gonna start to feel repetitive, but the FS/DC border really, really feels like I’ve seen this before. It’s not inherently bad as it kind of channels some old 4SW vibes and that may be the goal.

Big thing for me with the Horses is I want to see a couple things:
A) I want to see them do something, anything, of their own initiative. Most of their lore feels like it’s either “here’s another awesome thing they made that proliferated and other groups use more than they do,” or “and then the horses were another clan’s willing minions”
B) I want to see them evolve. EoT: Honor is right that they’ve been pretty stagnant.

If Peter Cobb is a bit of a repeat character, but he enables those two things, I’ll take it.

Metallgewitter

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1504
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #586 on: 09 June 2023, 08:54:28 »
Lore wise the only thing the Horses have done out of thewir own initiative are the Elemental phenotype and in the current timeline the tankwarrior and the Quadvee. Something that is still theirs only (and perhaps the Mongol doctrine at least in it's "cleansed" form) Which isn't even new they probably looked at House Steiner's wall of steel and thought "Hey can we make this wall mobile?". At least that's the vibe I got from the source books when they fought against the Bears and used their version of the Mongol doctrine. The interesting part would be what can they do differently? Rejecting the IlClan is one thing. But how do you go from there? Leave the Council of Six next? Crazy idea: leave the IS and go back toi the Homeworlds  :D

Church14

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1097
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #587 on: 09 June 2023, 09:21:26 »
Lore wise the only thing the Horses have done out of thewir own initiative are the Elemental phenotype and in the current timeline the tankwarrior and the Quadvee. Something that is still theirs only (and perhaps the Mongol doctrine at least in it's "cleansed" form) Which isn't even new they probably looked at House Steiner's wall of steel and thought "Hey can we make this wall mobile?". At least that's the vibe I got from the source books when they fought against the Bears and used their version of the Mongol doctrine. The interesting part would be what can they do differently? Rejecting the IlClan is one thing. But how do you go from there? Leave the Council of Six next? Crazy idea: leave the IS and go back toi the Homeworlds  :D
Horse actually do invent and create. It’s just since they are in the narrative B team, you usually see their inventions more prominently basically anywhere else.

Elemental phenotype
Tankwarriors
Chem lasers
HAG
Quadvees
Elemental III
Clan interface cockpit.

Hell, they even got robbed of the Stormcrow Omni at the finish line.



As to where they evolve too? I’m not sure I have a good answer. I’m rooting for them to be part of whatever coalition stands against Alaric’s inevitable reunification wars. But that isn’t really evolving. Possibly splitting the difference between ravens and bears? Start integrating local populations and skipping the “we suppressed your culture and forced you all into castes” step the bears took.

HobbesHurlbut

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3089
  • Live Free or Die Hard
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #588 on: 09 June 2023, 09:42:28 »
Horse actually do invent and create. It’s just since they are in the narrative B team, you usually see their inventions more prominently basically anywhere else.

Elemental phenotype
Tankwarriors
Chem lasers
HAG
Quadvees
Elemental III
Clan interface cockpit.

Hell, they even got robbed of the Stormcrow Omni at the finish line.



As to where they evolve too? I’m not sure I have a good answer. I’m rooting for them to be part of whatever coalition stands against Alaric’s inevitable reunification wars. But that isn’t really evolving. Possibly splitting the difference between ravens and bears? Start integrating local populations and skipping the “we suppressed your culture and forced you all into castes” step the bears took.
Didn't they also invented the Hellbringer?
Clan Blood Spirit - So Bad Ass as to require Orbital Bombardments to wipe us out....it is the only way to be sure!

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3427
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #589 on: 09 June 2023, 09:56:29 »
Horse actually do invent and create. It’s just since they are in the narrative B team, you usually see their inventions more prominently basically anywhere else.

Elemental phenotype
Tankwarriors
Chem lasers
HAG
Quadvees
Elemental III
Clan interface cockpit.

Hell, they even got robbed of the Stormcrow Omni at the finish line.

I think the Horses also either developed the Nova (Black Hawk) or at least modified it to create the first mechanized BA.

I’ve also noticed the Horse penchant for invention and figured they would have a unit dedicated to testing weapons, tactics, and phenotypes.  It’s out of date, but this is what I was noodling on at one time:

Omicron Keshik —> https://bg.battletech.com/forums/non-canon-units/chh-omicron-keshik/msg1453228/#msg1453228
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Gaiiten

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1931
  • Can not get enough of BattleTech!
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #590 on: 09 June 2023, 10:09:11 »
The Hell`s Horses are among the most innovative Clans given how much new technology they have invented and new Mech deigns (Standard and Omni) created.
Crush yah enumhees, see dem drivun befor you, and hear de lamuntatuns of de veemon!

Visit my Deviantart: http://gaiiten.deviantart.com/

CJC070

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1079
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #591 on: 09 June 2023, 10:29:48 »

If Peter Cobb is a bit of a repeat character, but he enables those two things, I’ll take it.

I maybe a minority but seeing how Peter Cobb was written I would rather see him as loremaster than Khan.  Personally any similarities between James and Peter seem to be superficial at best.

Someone does seem to want to shake up the Hells Horses especially since they seem to be building up the Oberon Confederation and we still don’t know what the IS population reaction will be.

I know Protomechs will probably be an exclusive creation but I hope we see Quadvees outside the CHH.

tassa_kay

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3175
  • Karianna Schmitt has no time for your headcanon.
    • My Facebook page!
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #592 on: 09 June 2023, 11:11:15 »
Maybe Peter Cobb will evolve in time to be an actual character, as opposed to being a plot advice to voice all of the problems the Horses have going on. Most of the ideas he presented in the book weren't really all that innovative for the Horses (but were still somehow treated as revolutionary and "dezgra"), and I never once got a sense that he (or anyone in the book, really) had an actual vision for what they wanted the Horses to be/do. But right now, I could swap out Peter with (to use more current examples) Noritomo Helmer or Knives Out Chistu and I honestly wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Just the same ol' "our leadership sucks, we need to find ourselves again" cookie-cutter Clan archetype. It astounds me that with such an alien culture, rife with potential, the same played-out tropes continue to bob to the surface.

Ok then we get another great Ghost Bear hero loosing his personal duel against a 4 legged Mech (this time a Balius) and then becoming new Khan of the Horses? Or perhaps with a bit different flavor creating a new state out of the Horses and part of the Dominion calling it the Hell Bear Dominion?

Not this, though. BattleTech writing is already hit-or-miss on a good day without bringing legitimate cringe into the equation. :D
« Last Edit: 09 June 2023, 11:14:52 by tassa_kay »
"Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it." - Mike Tyson

My Personal Units: Thuggee Warrior House Nagah (Capellan Confederation), 29th Blood Drinkers (Clan Blood Spirit), Nightmare Galaxy (Clan Hell's Horses), 1st Raven Rook Cluster (Raven Alliance)
Favorite Factions: Capellan Confederation • Clan Blood Spirit • Clan Smoke Jaguar • Clan Hell's Horses • Raven Alliance • Fronc Reaches • Rim Worlds Republic • Magistracy of Canopus
Favorite Characters: Malvina Hazen • Kali Liao • Katherine Steiner-Davion • Anastasia Kerensky • Danai Liao-Centrella • Karianna Schmitt • Lady Death • Tara Campbell • Katana Tormark
Favorite Units: The Golden Ordun • Wolf Hunters • 1st Horde Cluster • 1st Rasalhague Bears • Thuggee Warrior Houses • Hikage • Raptor Keshik • Kara's Scorchers • 1st Star Sentinels

wantec

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3873
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #593 on: 09 June 2023, 12:20:50 »
Horse actually do invent and create. It’s just since they are in the narrative B team, you usually see their inventions more prominently basically anywhere else.

Elemental phenotype
Tankwarriors
Chem lasers
HAG
Quadvees
Elemental III
Clan interface cockpit.
And the Hellbringer as HobbesHurlbut mentioned.
And the Nova as Natasha Kerensky mentioned.

In addition, the Nova was the first Omni to feature mechanized Elemental hardpoints, add that to the Horses's list. The Horses didn't invent OmniTech, but they were the first to apply it to vehicles. In Era Digest Golden Century the Horses were credited with the creation of Clan-spec Narc (it also mentions TAG, but I don't remember any difference between Clan and IS TAG).


Maybe Peter Cobb will evolve in time to be an actual character, as opposed to being a plot advice to voice all of the problems the Horses have going on. Most of the ideas he presented in the book weren't really all that innovative for the Horses (but were still somehow treated as revolutionary and "dezgra"), and I never once got a sense that he (or anyone in the book, really) had an actual vision for what they wanted the Horses to be/do. But right now, I could swap out Peter with (to use more current examples) Noritomo Helmer or Knives Out Chistu and I honestly wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Just the same ol' "our leadership sucks, we need to find ourselves again" cookie-cutter Clan archetype. It astounds me that with such an alien culture, rife with potential, the same played-out tropes continue to bob to the surface.
I don't see these as play-out tropes. Characters like Cobb, Helmer, and Chistu are the consequence characters that show up when the "alien culture, rife with potential" characters try something new, but don't succeed. The "return to the old ways" types are seem so boringly obvious, but you only see them when something new fails. Whenever we see a character do something new and succeed, there's no need for the "return to the old ways" types. The few exceptions are the Prinz Eugen mutineers, those who stayed behind in the Pentagon worlds during the 2nd Exodus, and in a way the Word of Blake. Each of those type of old-ways types fought to return to the old ways, but were put down.

Take a look at some of the new ways characters that succeeded. Vlad Ward negated a Trial of Absorption against his Clan, essentially formed a new Clan, and together with Marthe Pryde created the harvest trials where units from one Clan initiate a trial of absorption trying to get captured into another Clan. I can't remember the name of the Khan, but whichever Sea Fox Khan made the switch from Clan with enclaves, clusters, and galaxies into the roving band of armed merchants, Khanates, and aimags. Similarly is the Ghost Bear Khans who instead of merely claiming IS worlds ended up merging with the IS worlds to the point the Clan became only a part of the whole Rasalhague Dominion and not the rulers over their people.

Cobb has surfaced because Amirault and Lassenera failed the Clan through their plotting instead of acting and obsession over hurt feelings. In many ways they both made things worse in their stubbornness. At least Malvina's supporters can point to a long string of battlefield victories & territorial expansion. It didn't work in the end goal for the Falcons, but it got them far closer than the Horses.
BEN ROME YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD, I READ YOUR BOOK!


tassa_kay

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3175
  • Karianna Schmitt has no time for your headcanon.
    • My Facebook page!
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #594 on: 09 June 2023, 13:11:56 »
I don't see these as play-out tropes.

Well, I do. We've literally already seen this plotline play out for the Horses in the 3060s/3070s. The details aren't exactly the same but the same story is being told regardless.
"Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it." - Mike Tyson

My Personal Units: Thuggee Warrior House Nagah (Capellan Confederation), 29th Blood Drinkers (Clan Blood Spirit), Nightmare Galaxy (Clan Hell's Horses), 1st Raven Rook Cluster (Raven Alliance)
Favorite Factions: Capellan Confederation • Clan Blood Spirit • Clan Smoke Jaguar • Clan Hell's Horses • Raven Alliance • Fronc Reaches • Rim Worlds Republic • Magistracy of Canopus
Favorite Characters: Malvina Hazen • Kali Liao • Katherine Steiner-Davion • Anastasia Kerensky • Danai Liao-Centrella • Karianna Schmitt • Lady Death • Tara Campbell • Katana Tormark
Favorite Units: The Golden Ordun • Wolf Hunters • 1st Horde Cluster • 1st Rasalhague Bears • Thuggee Warrior Houses • Hikage • Raptor Keshik • Kara's Scorchers • 1st Star Sentinels

Tyler Jorgensson

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2821
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #595 on: 09 June 2023, 18:14:25 »
I like the mini interlude in the Land of Dreams Trilogy that has the Hell Horses Khans explaining their methods. I like that Khan Fletcher is like ‘armor corps rule!’ And then later admits ‘okay maybe this MechJock has a point and combined arms rules’.

The Horses have always been innovative and have produced a lot of things, but then have lost them for one reason or another and have been eclipsed. I hope they continue their innovations in the future.

CJC070

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1079
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #596 on: 09 June 2023, 21:02:07 »
Well, I do. We've literally already seen this plotline play out for the Horses in the 3060s/3070s. The details aren't exactly the same but the same story is being told regardless.

The same could be said with every major faction “one step forward then you succeed, one step back you fail” rinse and repeat.  The Draconis Combine has changed from “we like mercenaries, to death to mercenary scum” every ten years.  The “Capellan madness” has gone up and down more often than the European Monarchs.  Every faction has some trope where we say “again” as if we are talking about the weather.

WONC

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 761
  • Don't Stop Believin'
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #597 on: 09 June 2023, 23:42:04 »
Didn't they also invented the Hellbringer?

They also created the Gnome battle armor, which is worth celebrating just for the sheer stubborn goodness of it.
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

"Being tactful in audacity is knowing how far one can go too far."
Jean Cocteau

The Once & Future WiseOldNovaCat

tassa_kay

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3175
  • Karianna Schmitt has no time for your headcanon.
    • My Facebook page!
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #598 on: 09 June 2023, 23:56:29 »
The same could be said with every major faction “one step forward then you succeed, one step back you fail” rinse and repeat.  The Draconis Combine has changed from “we like mercenaries, to death to mercenary scum” every ten years.  The “Capellan madness” has gone up and down more often than the European Monarchs.  Every faction has some trope where we say “again” as if we are talking about the weather.

I'm not talking about a factional trope. Those I get, and most of the time I'm okay with them (just not a fan of straight-up stupid pills being taken). I'm talking about pretty much (it's not a carbon-copy, I get that) retelling the story of one Cobb with another. Besides that, we've seen this kind of "the Clan's lost its way and needs someone to lead them back to their roots" thing play out more recently with characters like Noritomo Helmer and Stephanie Chistu, so it gets a little redundant and same-y.

I want to see more for the Horses than retelling a story. I think that's the only thing besides the weird lower caste thing that I ultimately didn't enjoy: the Horses do desperately need a new path, and this book tells me over and over again that it's gonna be Peter and his writings and his influence that leads the way, but we aren't seeing what that path is going to be. That's the missing ingredient for me, and I'm saying this as someone who despite this nitpicking REALLY enjoyed the book.
« Last Edit: 09 June 2023, 23:59:09 by tassa_kay »
"Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it." - Mike Tyson

My Personal Units: Thuggee Warrior House Nagah (Capellan Confederation), 29th Blood Drinkers (Clan Blood Spirit), Nightmare Galaxy (Clan Hell's Horses), 1st Raven Rook Cluster (Raven Alliance)
Favorite Factions: Capellan Confederation • Clan Blood Spirit • Clan Smoke Jaguar • Clan Hell's Horses • Raven Alliance • Fronc Reaches • Rim Worlds Republic • Magistracy of Canopus
Favorite Characters: Malvina Hazen • Kali Liao • Katherine Steiner-Davion • Anastasia Kerensky • Danai Liao-Centrella • Karianna Schmitt • Lady Death • Tara Campbell • Katana Tormark
Favorite Units: The Golden Ordun • Wolf Hunters • 1st Horde Cluster • 1st Rasalhague Bears • Thuggee Warrior Houses • Hikage • Raptor Keshik • Kara's Scorchers • 1st Star Sentinels

wantec

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3873
Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #599 on: 10 June 2023, 07:46:07 »
They also created the Gnome battle armor, which is worth celebrating just for the sheer stubborn goodness of it.
And the Rhino Battle Armor that proceeded the Gnome.
BEN ROME YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD, I READ YOUR BOOK!