Hypothetical try again..(design challenge)

[Cannonshop]

Design a family of battlearmor, that is, using a chassis that is essentially the same size, design as many different 'packages' to be used on a single tech base.

Conditions:  The company in question is designing a mass-production basic BA chassis that is as yet unequipped, with customers requesting a number of packages that are mutually exclusive.

Customer A wants a fairly swift suit optimized for reconaissance and counter-insurgency work.

Custerm B wants a battlefield spotter with strong anti-infantry firepower

Customer C wants a general-purpose weapons platform with good mobility  to work with 'mech forces

Customer D wants a suit for space boarding operations and null-gee combat.

Customer E wants a suit capable of underwater operations.

Customer F wants a suit that will work with his conventional armored vehicle formations as a panzergrenadier-style unit.

you have a basic chassis (armor package, strength augmentation, and power supplies) in the 500-750 kilogram range.

Your firm is not quite large enough to lose any of these contracts, and if you nail them all, your firm can be profitable in two years (it's not currently profitable).  Each customer you lose, makes it take longer to get profitable.

so good luck guys in the engineering department, the boss wants a set of series designs ready for production by the end of the fiscal quarter.

[Ruger]

To clarify, the base chassis does not include motive systems nor weapons or other equipment, correct? (In other words, medium suits are acceptable?)

Ruger

[Cannonshop]

To clarify, the base chassis does not include motive systems nor weapons or other equipment, correct? (In other words, medium suits are acceptable?)

Ruger

yes.

[Ruger]

Let’s see. Not sure this is what you really meant but:

Code: [Select]

Forlorn Hope Medium Battle Armor
Chassis: 175 kg
Motive Systems:
Ground MP: 3-80 kg
Jump MP: 3-150 kg
Manipulators: Basic (both arms)-0 kg
Armor Value: 6 - 300 kg
Equipment:
Modular Weapon Mount-RA-10 kg-1 slot
Modular Weapon Mount-LA-10 kg-1 slot
AP Weapon Mount-LA-5 kg-1 slot
Magnetic Clamps-Body-30 kg-2 slots
Mission Equipment-Body-?? kg-1 slot

Weapon/Equipment Mass-240 kg

Recon/Counter-insurgency model:
Light Machine Gun-RA-75 kg-1 slot
Improved Sensors-LA-65 kg-1 slot
Mission Equipment-Body-100 kg-1 slot

Battlefield Spotter/Anti-Infantry model:
Flamer-RA-150 kg-1 slot
Light TAG-LA-35 kg-1 slot
Mission Equipment-Body-55 kg-1 slot

General Purpose model:
Light Recoilless Rifle-RA-175 kg-2 slots
Firedrake Assault Needler-LA-50 kg-1 slot
Mission Equipment-Body-15 kg-1 slot

Panzergrenadier model:
SRM-1-RA-60 kg-1 slot
Ammo(SRM)4-RA-40 kg-1 slot
Machine Gun-LA-100 kg-1 slot
Mission Equipment-Body-40 kg-1 slot

Space Ops model:
Light Machine Gun-RA-75 kg-1 slot
Firedrake Assault Needler-LA-50 kg-1 slot
Space Operations Adaptation-Body-100 kg-1 slot (uses mission equipment space)

Underwater Ops model:
Replaced Jump Jets with UMU
SRT-1(OS)-RA-50 kg-1 slot
Light Machine Gun-LA-75 kg-1 slot
Mission Equipment-Body-10 kg-1 slot

Ruger

[maxcarrion]

The Soldier Suit
 - Basic Chassis weighing in at 540KG - 460KG space available
Medium Biped IS Tech BA - 175
Basic Stealth Armour (6) - 330
Magnetic Battle Claw (RA) - 35

a) recon/counter insurgency.  Also b) Spotter/anti infantry
Soldier - "Scout" fitted with resepctable jump capability, enhanced sensor/spotter suite and superior anti infantry capability.
3 Jump MP - 150
2x LMG (RA) - 150
AP Weapon Mount & SSW Light Tag (LA) - 19
Improved Sensors & Searchlight (Body) - 70
Mission Equipment - 71

c) general purpose "Trooper" & f) panzergrenadier
Soldier - "Trooper", carrying the much heavier Medium Recoiless Rifle the "Trooper" is more than capable of dealing with armoured targets.  Keeping the Jump Jets, Left Arm and Magnetic Claw from the "Scout" the "Trooper" is able to ride along with mech or vehicle forces and provide a solid punch of additional firepower against a variety of targets.
3 Jump MP - 150
MRR (RA) - 250
SSW Light Tag & APWM (LA) - 14
Mission Equipment - 36

d) space trooper "Astro"
Soldier - "Astro" carries everything it needs to lead a boarding operation with the Firedrake making short work of lightly armoured opposition, an MG for heavier opposition and a cutting torch for and magnetic battle claw for hulls and doors.
3 jump MP - 150
Extended Life Support & Space Operation Adaptation - 125
MG & Cutting Torch (RA) - 105
Firedrake Support Needler (LA) 50
Mission Equipment - 30

e) "Frogman"
Soldier - "Frogman" Carries the premier underwater weapon, the LRT.  Being able to deploy this long range weapon allows it to strike and flood enemy units beyond their ability to strike back.
2 UMU - 170
Extended Life Support - 25
LRM2 (6 reloads) - 220
APWM - 5
Mission Equipment - 40

[truetanker]

Curious :

If the Magnetic Battle Claw is on the Right Arm, what's being used on the Left one?

TT

[maxcarrion]

Curious :

If the Magnetic Battle Claw is on the Right Arm, what's being used on the Left one?

TT

Basic manipulator for doing more fine motor work, weight 0

[Ruger]

Basic manipulator for doing more fine motor work, weight 0

Maybe I’m misremembering, but I thought magnetic battle claws had to be used in pairs? (Away from books right now to check)

Ruger

[Dragon Cat]

 Here you go my attempt with the low armour the Clans would murder them but these aren't designed to go Mech hunting alone

 

Code: [Select]

Scirorro Recon
 3050 IS Battle Armor

Original:  https://battletech.rpg.hu/mechfactory_frame.php?call=displaymech&id=141516

Source: My Own Custom /
Type/Model: Scirorro Recon
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3050
Config: Biped Power Armor
Rules: Level 4, Experimental design

Mass: 1 tons (rounded up)
Chassis: Medium
Walking Speed: 10.8 km/h
Jump Jets: 3 Jump Jet
Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Jump Jet Manufacturer:
Armor Type:  Advanced
Armament:
 1 Active Probe (BA)
 1 Camouflage BADC
 1 Mission Equipment
Manufacturer:
 Location:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

   
---------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:  Scirorro Recon
Mass: 1 tons (rounded up)

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:   1 pts Standard               0      0.18
   Walking MP:   1
   Jumping MP:   3
Armor Factor:    5 Advanced                  5      0.20
 
Weapons and Equipment    Loc        Ammo   Crits     Mass
---------------------------------------------------------
1 Active Probe (BA)      CT                   2      0.25
1 Camouflage BADC        CT                          0.20
1 Armored Glove          LA                             
1 Armored Glove          RA                             
1 Jump Jet               CT                          0.15
1 Mission Equipment      CT                   1      0.03
---------------------------------------------------------   
 
Calculated Factors
Battle Value (BV1):16
64 for IS squads(4) or 96 for CS/WoB units(6)
Battle Value (BV2):22
 114 for IS squads(4) or 154 for CS/WoB units(6) 

Code: [Select]

   
 Scirorro  Anti-Armour
 3050 IS Battle Armor

Original:  https://battletech.rpg.hu/mechfactory_frame.php?call=displaymech&id=10000009

Source: My Own Custom /
Type/Model: Scirorro  Anti-Armour
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3050
Config: Biped Power Armor
Rules: Level 4, Experimental design

Mass: 1 tons (rounded up)
Chassis: Medium
Walking Speed: 10.8 km/h
Jump Jets: 3 Jump Jet
Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Jump Jet Manufacturer:
Armor Type:  Advanced
Armament:
 1 Magshot Gauss Rifle
 1 SRM 2 (OS)
Manufacturer:
 Location:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

   
---------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:  Scirorro  Anti-Armour
Mass: 1 tons (rounded up)

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:   1 pts Standard               0      0.18
   Walking MP:   1
   Jumping MP:   3
Armor Factor:    5 Advanced                  5      0.20
 
Weapons and Equipment    Loc        Ammo   Crits     Mass
---------------------------------------------------------
1 Magshot Gauss Rifle    RA           10      3      0.18
1 SRM 2 (OS)             CT                   2      0.08
1 Battle Claw            LA                          0.02
1 Jump Jet               CT                          0.15
---------------------------------------------------------   
 
Calculated Factors
Battle Value (BV1):40
160 for IS squads(4) or 240 for CS/WoB units(6)
Battle Value (BV2):44
 229 for IS squads(4) or 308 for CS/WoB units(6) 

Code: [Select]

   
 Scirorro  GP
 3050 IS Battle Armor

Original:  https://battletech.rpg.hu/mechfactory_frame.php?call=displaymech&id=10000007

Source: My Own Custom /
Type/Model: Scirorro  GP
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3050
Config: Biped Power Armor
Rules: Level 4, Experimental design

Mass: 1 tons (rounded up)
Chassis: Medium
Walking Speed: 10.8 km/h
Jump Jets: 3 Jump Jet
Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Jump Jet Manufacturer:
Armor Type:  Advanced
Armament:
 1 Support PPC
 1 Light Machine Gun
 1 Light Machine Gun
 1 Mission Equipment
Manufacturer:
 Location:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

   
---------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:  Scirorro  GP
Mass: 1 tons (rounded up)

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:   1 pts Standard               0      0.18
   Walking MP:   1
   Jumping MP:   3
Armor Factor:    5 Advanced                  5      0.20
 
Weapons and Equipment    Loc        Ammo   Crits     Mass
---------------------------------------------------------
1 Support PPC            RA           15      2      0.25
1 Light Machine Gun      CT           50      1      0.08
1 Light Machine Gun      CT           50      1      0.08
1 Battle Claw            LA                          0.02
1 Jump Jet               CT                          0.15
1 Mission Equipment      CT                   1      0.06
---------------------------------------------------------   
 
Calculated Factors
Battle Value (BV1):51
204 for IS squads(4) or 306 for CS/WoB units(6)
Battle Value (BV2):55
 286 for IS squads(4) or 385 for CS/WoB units(6) 

Code: [Select]

   
 Scirorro  Infantry
 3050 IS Battle Armor

Original:  https://battletech.rpg.hu/mechfactory_frame.php?call=displaymech&id=10000006

Source: My Own Custom /
Type/Model: Scirorro  Infantry
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3050
Config: Biped Power Armor
Rules: Level 4, Experimental design

Mass: 1 tons (rounded up)
Chassis: Medium
Walking Speed: 10.8 km/h
Jump Jets: 3 Jump Jet
Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Jump Jet Manufacturer:
Armor Type:  Advanced
Armament:
 1 Light TAG
 1 Firedrake Support Needler
 1 Machine Gun
 1 Standard BADC
 1 Mission Equipment
Manufacturer:
 Location:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

   
---------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:  Scirorro  Infantry
Mass: 1 tons (rounded up)

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:   1 pts Standard               0      0.18
   Walking MP:   1
   Jumping MP:   3
Armor Factor:    5 Advanced                  5      0.20
 
Weapons and Equipment    Loc        Ammo   Crits     Mass
---------------------------------------------------------
1 Light TAG              LA           60      1      0.04
1 Firedrake Support NeedlerCT           30      1      0.05
1 Machine Gun            RA(M)        50      1      0.10
1 Standard BADC          CT                          0.20
1 Standard Mount         RA(M)                1      0.01
1 Battle Claw            LA                          0.02
1 Armored Glove          RA                             
1 Jump Jet               CT                          0.15
1 Mission Equipment      CT                   1      0.06
---------------------------------------------------------   
 
Calculated Factors
Battle Value (BV1):25
100 for IS squads(4) or 150 for CS/WoB units(6)
Battle Value (BV2):28
 146 for IS squads(4) or 196 for CS/WoB units(6) 

Code: [Select]

   
 Scirorro  Space
 3050 IS Battle Armor

Original:  https://battletech.rpg.hu/mechfactory_frame.php?call=displaymech&id=10000008

Source: My Own Custom /
Type/Model: Scirorro  Space
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3050
Config: Biped Power Armor
Rules: Level 2, Standard design

Mass: 1 tons (rounded up)
Chassis: Medium
Walking Speed: 10.8 km/h
Jump Jets: 3 Jump Jet
Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Jump Jet Manufacturer:
Armor Type:  Advanced
Armament:
 1 Space Operations Adapt.
 1 Small Laser
 1 Cutting Torch
 1 Extended Life Support
 1 Shotgun (Combat) (C)
Manufacturer:
 Location:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

   
---------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:  Scirorro  Space
Mass: 1 tons (rounded up)

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:   1 pts Standard               0      0.18
   Walking MP:   1
   Jumping MP:   3
Armor Factor:    5 Advanced                  5      0.20
 
Weapons and Equipment    Loc        Ammo   Crits     Mass
---------------------------------------------------------
1 Space Operations Adapt.CT                   1      0.10
1 Small Laser            RA           30      1      0.20
1 Cutting Torch          LA                   1      0.01
1 Extended Life Support  CT                   1      0.03
1 Shotgun (Combat) (C)   LA(M)         8                 
1 AP Mount               LA(M)                1      0.01
1 Battle Claw            LA                          0.02
1 Jump Jet               CT                          0.15
---------------------------------------------------------   
 
Calculated Factors
Battle Value (BV1):28
112 for IS squads(4) or 168 for CS/WoB units(6)
Battle Value (BV2):32
 166 for IS squads(4) or 224 for CS/WoB units(6) 

[Dragon Cat]

Forgot the Subsea

Code: [Select]

   
 Scirorro  Subsea
 3050 IS Battle Armor

Original:  https://battletech.rpg.hu/mechfactory_frame.php?call=displaymech&id=10000010

Source: My Own Custom /
Type/Model: Scirorro  Subsea
Tech: Mixed Tech / 3050
Config: Biped Power Armor
Rules: Level 4, Experimental design

Mass: 1 tons (rounded up)
Chassis: Medium
Walking Speed: 10.8 km/h
Jump Jets: 3 UMU System
Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Jump Jet Manufacturer:
Armor Type: (IS) Advanced
Armament:
 1 Remote Sensor Disp. (IS)
 1 Small Laser (IS)
 1 Cutting Torch (IS)
 1 Extended Life Support (IS)
 1 Mission Equipment
Manufacturer:
 Location:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

   
---------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:  Scirorro  Subsea
Mass: 1 tons (rounded up)

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:   1 pts Standard               0      0.18
   Walking MP:   1
   UMU MP:   3
Armor Factor:    5 Advanced                  5      0.20
 
Weapons and Equipment    Loc        Ammo   Crits     Mass
---------------------------------------------------------
1 Remote Sensor Disp. (IS)CT                   1      0.04
1 Small Laser (IS)       RA           30      1      0.20
1 Cutting Torch (IS)     LA                   1      0.01
1 Extended Life Support (IS)CT                   1      0.03
1 Battle Claw            LA                          0.02
1 Basic Manipulator      RA                             
1 UMU System             CT                          0.26
1 Mission Equipment      CT                   1      0.08
---------------------------------------------------------   
 
Calculated Factors
Battle Value (BV1):27
108 for IS squads(4) or 162 for CS/WoB units(6)
Battle Value (BV2):30
 156 for IS squads(4) or 210 for CS/WoB units(6) 

[maxcarrion]

Maybe I’m misremembering, but I thought magnetic battle claws had to be used in pairs? (Away from books right now to check)

Ruger

Balls, you're not wrong. 

[Daryk]

I'm late to this party, but despite being slightly underweight, I think the Light design below checks all the blocks.
The basic frame is a Light BA chassis (150 kg) with 6 points of Basic Stealth armor (330 kg) that totals 480 kg.  I was going to install modular manipulators, but they were too heavy for some of the variants.  Each package is 270 kg, has 5 slots to work with, and all of them rely on at least one Armored Glove to carry infantry weapons (which is to say, any Standard or Support weapon that has no more than 1E for crew: Sniper Rifles for range, Grenade Launchers for damage, Lasers for space).

Code: [Select]

A- Fast Scout
2 Armored Gloves 0 0 Carries infantry weapons
Jump Booster 125 2
3 Jump 75 0
Improved Sensors 65 1
Mission Equipment 5 2

B- Spotter
2 Armored Gloves 0 0 Carries infantry weapons
3 Jump 75 0
Light Tag 35 1
2 Light MGs 150 2
Mission Equipment 10 2 Or Ammo

C- 'Mech Mobile
1 Armored Glove 0 0 Carries infantry weapons
1 Basic Manipulator 0 0 Mechanized BA
3 Jump 75 0
David Light Gauss 100 1
Light Machine Gun 75 1
Mission Equipment 20 3 Or Ammo

D- Space Ops
2 Armored Gloves 0 0 Carries infantry weapons
Space Ops Adaptation 100 1
Extended Life Support 25 1
3 Jump 75 0
Fuel Tank 50 1
Mission Equipment 20 2

E- Undewater
2 Armored Gloves 0 0 Carries infantry weapons
5 UMU 225 0
OS LRM-1 (Torp) 40 3
Mission Equipment 15 2

F- Panzergrenadier
2 Armored Gloves 0 0 Carries infantry weapons
Magnetic Clamps 30 2 Mechanized BA
3 Jump 75 0
2 Light MGs 150 2
Mission Equipment 15 1


[Daryk]

AND, quad BA piloted by Goblins to carry around the Orcs in the above suits!  ^-^

Admittedly, the "carrying" aspect required the Illegal Quirk, since Quads aren't normally allowed to mount Cargo Lifters.  I fluff them as a saddle and stirrups...  :)

Code: [Select]

Warg
Chassis 175
5 MP (3 extra) 120 0
3 Cargo Lifters (Saddle/Stirrups) 90 0 (Illegal)
10 points Advanced 400 5
Weight/Space left 215 2
Turret 50 1 +2 spaces
2 LMGs 150 (2) In Turret
Barton AMR 14 1
Ammo 1 -
For the scouts:

Code: [Select]

Stalking Warg
Chassis 175
5 MP (3 extra) 120 0
3 Cargo Lifters (Saddle/Stirrups) 90 0 (Illegal)
10 points Basic Stealth 550 3
Remote Sensor Dispenser 40 1
APWM 5 1
Sniper Rifle (Barton AMR) 14 (1) In APWM
Ammo/Mission Equipment 6 1
And for just plain assault support (no transport capability):

Code: [Select]

Hellhound
Chassis 175
5 MP (3 extra) 120 0
10 points Advanced 400 5
Turret 50 1 +2 Spaces
2 MGs 200 (2)
Firedrake 50 1
Ammo 5 0

[Daryk]

And since you mentioned hunting BA, here are two more non-transport variants:

Bloodhound

Code: [Select]

Chassis 175
5 MP (3 extra) 120 0
10 points Advanced 400 5
Turret 60 1 +3 Spaces
Magshot 175 (3)
Improved Sensors 65 1
Ammo 5 0
Wolfhound         

Code: [Select]

Chassis 175
5 MP (3 extra) 120 0
10 points Advanced 400 5
Turret 60 1 +3 Spaces
Magshot 175 (3)
Firedrake 50 1
Ammo 20 0

[Daryk]

And one more transport capable version WAY down the road (needs clan armor and their Myomer Booster):

Greyhound

Code: [Select]

Chassis 175 0
5 MP (3 extra) 120 0
10 points clan standard 250 0
Myomer Booster 250 3 7 MP!
3 Cargo Lifters (Saddle/Stirrups) 90 0 (Illegal)
LMG 75 1
APWM 5 1
Barton AMR 14 (1)
Ammo/Mission Equipment 21 1


[Daryk]

So... Cannonshop has gone for a kind of "Vibro Cavalry Lance" for the Wild Hunt!  My proposed AToW stats for it are below:

The Broward Spear (don't forget the cross-piece!):

Code: [Select]

ITEM       EQUIPMENT  AP/BD RANGE SHOTS   COST/  AFF   MASS/   NOTES
            RATINGS                       RELOAD       RELOAD
VIBROSPEAR E/D-D-C/D  6M/4   3M   1 PPS   500/*   —    4 KG/*  ADD DAMAGE TO MOUNTED CHARGE ATTACK (AToW Companion, p. 20)
And once the Capellan Shock Staff comes on the scene...  ^-^
The Broward Shock Spear:

Code: [Select]

ITEM       EQUIPMENT  AP/BD RANGE SHOTS   COST/  AFF   MASS/   NOTES
            RATINGS                       RELOAD       RELOAD
VIBROSHOCK E/X-X-F/E  6M/8   3M   6 PPS   2000/*  —    6 KG/*  ADD DAMAGE TO MOUNTED CHARGE ATTACK (AToW Companion, p. 20)
SPEAR

[truetanker]

And once the Capellan Shock Staff comes on the scene...  ^-^
The Broward Shock Spear:

Code: [Select]

ITEM       EQUIPMENT  AP/BD RANGE SHOTS   COST/  AFF   MASS/   NOTES
            RATINGS                       RELOAD       RELOAD
VIBROSHOCK E/X-X-F/E  6M/8   3M   6 PPS   2000/*  —    6 KG/*  ADD DAMAGE TO MOUNTED CHARGE ATTACK (AToW Companion, p. 20)
SPEAR

Oh.... shocky!

Now to add this to the Star Empire's Imperial's Red Force Knights, who protect the elder Force Lord, Emperor Sydius!

TT

[Daryk]

Two more quad ideas (that can keep up with the Hunt), since Kowloon is known for search and rescue...

St. Bernard

Code: [Select]

Chassis 175 0
5 MP (3 extra) 120 0
10 points Advanced 400 5
Paramedic Gear 250 1 (Illegal)
Cargo Lifter (Stretcher) 30 0 (Illegal)
Pillion Seat (for Medic) 25 1 (Illegal)

Jaws of Life (probably just called "Jaws" by Goblins)

Code: [Select]

Chassis 175 0
5 MP (3 extra) 120 0
10 points Advanced 400 5
Cargo Lifters 240 0 (Illegal; 4 ton lift)
2 Salvage Arms 60 0 (Illegal)
Mission Equipment   5 1

I figure a "Recovery Squad" would be 1 St. Bernard and 3 Jaws of Life.

[ringringlingling]

I'd tell whoever negotiated this contract that motive systems aren't modular, C & F are redundant, adding amphibious capability breaks the modularity of the design, and that if you are trying to create a money pit so you can go swimming in kickbacks and slush funds, that we need payment upfront and a liability waiver.  When the project crashes and burns, (which i can only assume is what the contractor wanted to begin with) I also want a golden parachute to compensate for the bad publicity the design is going to cost me.

[ringringlingling]

I can really only assume that the design specs are going to be used as a strawman to poke holes in modular design theory so that specialty design weapon manufacturers keep their contracts.

[Daryk]

Kowloon is known for manufacturing machine tools, not actual units.  That gives them an advantage that most factions don't even think about...  ^-^

[Cannonshop]

Kowloon is known for manufacturing machine tools, not actual units.  That gives them an advantage that most factions don't even think about...  ^-^

I can really only assume that the design specs are going to be used as a strawman to poke holes in modular design theory so that specialty design weapon manufacturers keep their contracts.

There's a certain thing, where a government produces a 'blivet' requirement to see just how far the state of the art can be pushed, this usually results in improvements to existing programs or simplified down to improve next-generation systems.  An RL example being the AH-56 Cheyenne or the RAH-66 Comanche, the various X-plane programs, or the MBT-70 project.

[Daryk]

"Blivet" is one of those words that means very different things to different people.  Seriously, my first thought was "A collapsible fuel bladder requirement?"  Urban Dictionary to the rescue for your actual meaning!  Your point is spot on, though.  :thumbsup: