Author Topic: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.  (Read 46485 times)

Geg

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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #450 on: 08 December 2023, 14:58:17 »
Alaric is technically not Trueborn.  He either has no heritage from the original bloodname founders, or very little if more recent citing of having at least some of Vlad's DNA is true.  (Which it sounds like it's just cover, IMHO.)

The IKEO novel is called Trial of Birthright or something close.   We know Alarics has got non-standard genes.   We know the Dragoons kidnapped some of his sibcos.  I suspect all the questionable parentage along with the poison pill of Terra (and his mother killing habits) are going to come home to roost sooner rather than later.   The 3rd League force packs more than a year out and other comments from TBTB are enough evidence for me that 3rd League is going to be around for a while.   We might not have to put up with Alaric for much longer.

After all his name sake didn't make it out of Italy.

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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #451 on: 08 December 2023, 15:06:10 »
Quote from: Alaric Ward, Chapter 4, Children of Kerensky
I am the son of both Victor Steiner-Davion and Vlad Ward...I am destined to be unstoppable.
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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #452 on: 08 December 2023, 15:10:38 »
I wouldn’t necessarily read that so literally. Not all father/son relationships are biological.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #453 on: 08 December 2023, 17:10:43 »
The IKEO novel is called Trial of Birthright or something close.   We know Alarics has got non-standard genes.   We know the Dragoons kidnapped some of his sibcos.

the Dragoons kidnapped one sibco consisting of 19 children all 9 years old. Kincaid is splitting them up, keeping some to be trained as Dragoons while the rest will be send to the other Clans. The question will be if Marrota Kerensky is able to inform Alaric of what has happened or if he keeps quiet about it. Of course the Ilkhan's "children" are a very valuable gift though if they ever arrive is another question

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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #454 on: 08 December 2023, 17:33:50 »
even if someone ran a gene trace on them it'd be easy eneugh for the wolves to just say those children wheren't really wolves anyway and where some sort of 'goons plot.
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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #455 on: 08 December 2023, 18:37:49 »
Yeah, I don't think anyone will be convinced by the children. Although it might bolster the willingness of anti-Alaric factions in various Clans to resist.
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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #456 on: 08 December 2023, 23:24:22 »
I think that's where I read it or Hour of the Wolf

No, Hour of the Wolf is only that VLAD'S message reaches Alaric b/c his codex shows a descendant of Vlad was on the DS.
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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #457 on: 08 December 2023, 23:45:11 »
There’s a reason Alaric’s true lineage has been covered up at the highest levels, and it isn’t because no one would care just because he’s winning a lot. I imagine the Clans (and maybe most especially the Wolves) would have a huge problem with learning that their victory came at the hands of a Steiner-Davion lab experiment. The post-WoR Clans aren’t gonna look too kindly on genetic deceptions. Alaric certainly isn’t invincible, either, as Anastasia Kerensky has handed him his ass before.

The ultimate authority from which all legitimacy in the Clan is derived is violence - or more specifically, no one caring enough to raise a violent fuss about it.  Clan politics are predicated on either being good enough to win your disagreements or agreeable enough to not have to fight over them or some combination of both. In that regard you're spot on here: if Alaric's provenance were widely known, there would be a lot of people who suddenly feel like it is worth their time to fight about it, and no matter how good you might be you can't win every fight.
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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #458 on: 09 December 2023, 00:11:02 »
The next (legitimacy) "reunifications" wars begin  :evil:, Alaric's secret gets out and has so many Trials, Skirmishes and incursions after he perhaps blunts Cappies advance

So, who shall next "run" for First Lord  :police: 

I have had a thought to, going further into ilClan, will perhaps TPTB have a "slight" time jump like Dark Age ? Like 20 years, and have the "catch up" formula they did through Jihad to the start of Dark Age ?

Side note: Kinda ironic, at current a Steiner Davion sits on the Star League throne  :laugh:

IKEO is it out ? or is it just the title name we know now ?
« Last Edit: 09 December 2023, 00:20:13 by JAMES_PRYDE »

rebs

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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #459 on: 09 December 2023, 09:28:26 »
There’s a reason Alaric’s true lineage has been covered up at the highest levels, and it isn’t because no one would care just because he’s winning a lot. I imagine the Clans (and maybe most especially the Wolves) would have a huge problem with learning that their victory came at the hands of a Steiner-Davion lab experiment. The post-WoR Clans aren’t gonna look too kindly on genetic deceptions. Alaric certainly isn’t invincible, either, as Anastasia Kerensky has handed him his ass before.

Yes.  And I'm inclined to think that as of 3152 (and likely before that even) people sometimes get murdered to keep this a secret.  Scientists probably have to swear an oath of secrecy and loyalty to Alaric himself if they know and wish to stay alive.

the Dragoons kidnapped one sibco consisting of 19 children all 9 years old. Kincaid is splitting them up, keeping some to be trained as Dragoons while the rest will be send to the other Clans. The question will be if Marrota Kerensky is able to inform Alaric of what has happened or if he keeps quiet about it. Of course the Ilkhan's "children" are a very valuable gift though if they ever arrive is another question

even if someone ran a gene trace on them it'd be easy eneugh for the wolves to just say those children wheren't really wolves anyway and where some sort of 'goons plot.

If the Dragoons knew to do it, they should have went to any length to grab some of the genetic scientists while they were tromping around on Gienah.  Then they could get the whole picture.
« Last Edit: 09 December 2023, 09:31:07 by rebs »
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #460 on: 09 December 2023, 11:11:46 »
According to Redemption Rites the Dragoons included the codex of each of the children they send away. Even the giftake. Or perhaps they wrote down "You can take a giftake and check for yourself" Which sounds to me as if the Dragoons took more then just a small group of children. Though why no one thought of also raiding the Wolf HQ is beyond especially after turning nearly every Wolf warrior into paste or POW

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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #461 on: 11 December 2023, 09:00:20 »
Also, timing. Goons did that in mid 3152. Trial by birthright is… I’m assuming late 3151nto mid 3152?

So while Alaric’s lineage might matter in the end, it shouldn’t for this novel

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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #462 on: 11 December 2023, 13:36:55 »
I am usually very much an advocate for bringing the WizKids material forward into the Catalyst-side of things, but Alaric's heritage is a tricky matter. For one, Masters of War completely reverses the genefather/genemother dynamic that any clanner knows at his core. Ignoring the VSD aspect for now, Katherine would never have been his genemother as she isn't a bloodnamed warrior. Claiming eligibility for the Ward bloodname means Vlad Ward is Alaric's genemother (at least as far as the paperwork is concerned). This all should have been caught by fact-checkers (or the author considering how many clan novels he's written). For whatever reason it went through making this all a mess.

Beyond that nit-picking, there's the fact that in a post Wars of Reaving Clan Wolf, you have scientists willing falsify data and engage in un-clan-like genetic modifications with warrior genetics is shocking to me. Katherine is a special case, but after Vlad's death, Ivan Kerensky and subsequent Khans side-lined her power and access. My personal take is Alaric's genemother is Vlad, genefather is Katherine and the stuff about Victor is just more psychological manipulation by Katherine. DNA testing should be a simple way to prove the truth.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #463 on: 11 December 2023, 14:51:36 »
Imagine if said gene cocktail is proven to be true. I wonder who would be the first to call a Reaving trial against alaric and his spawn? If any even dare as so far Alaric is winning in every way and in clan society victory comes first. Heck most clans happily throw away their customs at first chance to achieve victory.

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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #464 on: 11 December 2023, 18:34:44 »
Personally when it comes to Alaric he is (to me) either the son of Vlad and Victor or is has the genetics of Victor, Vlad, and Katherine.  It also would not surprise me if there were elements of The Society within Clan Wolf who did not purge their science caste as brutally as the Falcons did.

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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #465 on: 11 December 2023, 18:51:17 »
Personally when it comes to Alaric he is (to me) either the son of Vlad and Victor or is has the genetics of Victor, Vlad, and Katherine.  It also would not surprise me if there were elements of The Society within Clan Wolf who did not purge their science caste as brutally as the Falcons did.

There was very little if any presence of Society in the Wolves

We know from WoR that amount of Society infiltration while they existed was directly proportionate to oppressiveness of specific Clans

For example Star Adders had almost none while Jade Falcons were riddled with Society





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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #466 on: 11 December 2023, 19:03:12 »
There was very little if any presence of Society in the Wolves

We know from WoR that amount of Society infiltration while they existed was directly proportionate to oppressiveness of specific Clans

For example Star Adders had almost none while Jade Falcons were riddled with Society

That’s not accurate. What WoR actually says is that the more strict and rigid the Clan was in its adherence to Kerensky’s tenets, the fewer cells were present.

The Wolves had a pretty difficult time with the Society cells in their midst, especially once they learned of the “destruction” of the Kerensky genetic line.

The Falcons are a glaring exception specifically because of Etienne and his particular faction of the Society. He had a major axe to grind against his former Clan.
« Last Edit: 11 December 2023, 19:08:21 by tassa_kay »
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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #467 on: 11 December 2023, 19:45:52 »
I am usually very much an advocate for bringing the WizKids material forward into the Catalyst-side of things, but Alaric's heritage is a tricky matter. For one, Masters of War completely reverses the genefather/genemother dynamic that any clanner knows at his core. Ignoring the VSD aspect for now, Katherine would never have been his genemother as she isn't a bloodnamed warrior. Claiming eligibility for the Ward bloodname means Vlad Ward is Alaric's genemother (at least as far as the paperwork is concerned). This all should have been caught by fact-checkers (or the author considering how many clan novels he's written). For whatever reason it went through making this all a mess.

Beyond that nit-picking, there's the fact that in a post Wars of Reaving Clan Wolf, you have scientists willing falsify data and engage in un-clan-like genetic modifications with warrior genetics is shocking to me. Katherine is a special case, but after Vlad's death, Ivan Kerensky and subsequent Khans side-lined her power and access. My personal take is Alaric's genemother is Vlad, genefather is Katherine and the stuff about Victor is just more psychological manipulation by Katherine. DNA testing should be a simple way to prove the truth.

Pretty sure Katherine insists on being called 'mother' not that she was his maternal donor.

But you are also talking about a book Stackpole rolled out throwing out I would guess some of his favorite Wolf clusters, the SLDF legacy units & 4th Wolf Guards . . . except they went Warden and the SLDF legacies were retired (for some reason in FMWC, something that makes NO sense at all IC).
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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #468 on: 12 December 2023, 00:25:55 »
they went Warden and the SLDF legacies were retired (for some reason in FMWC, something that makes NO sense at all IC).
I think the IC reason was because there wasn't enough of any single cluster left to form around, so instead of picking & choosing who did or did not get to continue in name, they started a new formation to give all the warriors a common unity.
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tassa_kay

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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #469 on: 12 December 2023, 00:39:49 »
Beyond that nit-picking, there's the fact that in a post Wars of Reaving Clan Wolf, you have scientists willing falsify data and engage in un-clan-like genetic modifications with warrior genetics is shocking to me. Katherine is a special case, but after Vlad's death, Ivan Kerensky and subsequent Khans side-lined her power and access.

Not all subsequent Khans did, though. Katherine specifically forged a political alliance with Seth Ward. And well before that, in 3083, she managed to get her supporter into the Loremaster post after Katya Kerensky (also her ally) stepped down. It's clear that despite Ivan Kerensky's efforts, Katherine's power was never truly sidelined.
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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #470 on: 12 December 2023, 00:53:20 »
I think the IC reason was because there wasn't enough of any single cluster left to form around, so instead of picking & choosing who did or did not get to continue in name, they started a new formation to give all the warriors a common unity.

You claim to be the original Wolves, you keep the legacy clusters.

But the point remains, he seemed to have written Masters w/o any sort of acknowledgement of what was done to them post-Refusal.
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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #471 on: 12 December 2023, 20:40:06 »
Not all subsequent Khans did, though. Katherine specifically forged a political alliance with Seth Ward. And well before that, in 3083, she managed to get her supporter into the Loremaster post after Katya Kerensky (also her ally) stepped down. It's clear that despite Ivan Kerensky's efforts, Katherine's power was never truly sidelined.

My question is though, why was Katherine so influential in Clan Wolf politics? When Vlad was alive it makes a little sense, but she's a Wolf warrior, not ranked. I know one of the Shrapnel stories mentioned she still had on tap several assassins who killed several Wolf individuals who opposed her, but being influential enough to get Scientists to allow Alaric to be spawned? Always seemed strange.
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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #472 on: 12 December 2023, 20:43:54 »
My question is though, why was Katherine so influential in Clan Wolf politics? When Vlad was alive it makes a little sense, but she's a Wolf warrior, not ranked. I know one of the Shrapnel stories mentioned she still had on tap several assassins who killed several Wolf individuals who opposed her, but being influential enough to get Scientists to allow Alaric to be spawned? Always seemed strange.

Because she’s politically adept, made the right allies (Katya Kerensky, the Loremaster she helped get into said position, Seth Ward), and made the most of what she had access to under Vlad. It’s not strange at all to me.
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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #473 on: 12 December 2023, 21:08:23 »
My question is though, why was Katherine so influential in Clan Wolf politics? When Vlad was alive it makes a little sense, but she's a Wolf warrior, not ranked. I know one of the Shrapnel stories mentioned she still had on tap several assassins who killed several Wolf individuals who opposed her, but being influential enough to get Scientists to allow Alaric to be spawned? Always seemed strange.

You also have to think, Katherine would have a long term perspective . . . we constantly hear the Clan warriors are bad at strategy in general- MOST of the Wolf leadership she is going to be enemies of will not operate on a long term plan.
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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #474 on: 14 December 2023, 13:16:03 »
You also have to think, Katherine would have a long term perspective . . . we constantly hear the Clan warriors are bad at strategy in general- MOST of the Wolf leadership she is going to be enemies of will not operate on a long term plan.

Lots of Clan factions and leaders are depicted as rash and reactionary.  But I’d argue that the Wolves are one of the exceptions to the norm (along with the Adders and Bears).  Kerlin, Ulrich and pretty much anyone with the Kerensky bloodname being prime examples of long-term thinkers.  Although he makes mistakes logistically, even Vlad seems more patient and thoughtful than comparatively rabid Falcon opponents.  Although she was a political, not military, planner, Katherine may have fit in with Wolf leadership more because of their similarities than differences.

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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #475 on: 14 December 2023, 16:42:15 »
Also we're TOLD constantly Kat is a "good political thinker" but honestly during the late FASA era, partiuclarly during the FCCW it was very much "told not shown" and frankly, what we've been shown didn't seem to bear that out, she was constantly out manuvers by SunTzu Liao (granted this WAS the 3060s when the writers didn't seem to think they could allow STL to have anything but total victory after total victory and turned everyone around him into morons whenever nesscary to back it up)  and her decision making process seemed to be very "I AM QUEEN DO AS I SAY!" which isn't really politics (politics involves bringing others to your side, offering comprimises to get what you want etc) 

KSD would have had to evovle considerably to work among the clans, and sadly we simply never got a chance to see that
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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #476 on: 14 December 2023, 21:22:22 »
Also we're TOLD constantly Kat is a "good political thinker" but honestly during the late FASA era, partiuclarly during the FCCW it was very much "told not shown" and frankly, what we've been shown didn't seem to bear that out, she was constantly out manuvers by SunTzu Liao (granted this WAS the 3060s when the writers didn't seem to think they could allow STL to have anything but total victory after total victory and turned everyone around him into morons whenever nesscary to back it up)  and her decision making process seemed to be very "I AM QUEEN DO AS I SAY!" which isn't really politics (politics involves bringing others to your side, offering comprimises to get what you want etc) 

KSD would have had to evovle considerably to work among the clans, and sadly we simply never got a chance to see that

You do some when she predicts the meeting for Alaric.
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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #477 on: 15 December 2023, 05:32:28 »
Also we're TOLD constantly Kat is a "good political thinker" but honestly during the late FASA era, partiuclarly during the FCCW it was very much "told not shown" and frankly, what we've been shown didn't seem to bear that out, she was constantly out manuvers by SunTzu Liao (granted this WAS the 3060s when the writers didn't seem to think they could allow STL to have anything but total victory after total victory and turned everyone around him into morons whenever nesscary to back it up)  and her decision making process seemed to be very "I AM QUEEN DO AS I SAY!" which isn't really politics (politics involves bringing others to your side, offering comprimises to get what you want etc) 

KSD would have had to evovle considerably to work among the clans, and sadly we simply never got a chance to see that

Well that was then overturned when Sun-Tzu was humiliated by the Republic in the opening wars of the Republic.

On another note Katherine was described as having little control over her emotions. I suspect as long as Victor was there and "provoked" her she would always fall especially after loosing Tormano Liao who was able to guide her.
I would suspect that her warrior training in the Clans (which we never saw except the sham of a trial of position) gave her some discipline in that regard.

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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #478 on: 15 December 2023, 07:43:02 »
Which novel / sourcebook describes about her joining Clan Wolf and how ?

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Re: Terra. Home to ilClan Wolf.
« Reply #479 on: 15 December 2023, 08:17:01 »
Which novel / sourcebook describes about her joining Clan Wolf and how ?
End Game, it only shows her being collected by Khan Vladimir Ward.
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