Author Topic: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion Part 6 - New Kickstarter, New Volumes?  (Read 123767 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Of course it's not a bug.  It's a crustacean.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Colt Ward

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XXLs are fine they just have to be used intelligently.  Slapping them on anything and everything is not that.

Clan XXL, XL Gyro and Reinforced Internal Structure gets really interesting for speedsters.

I have run the Reinforced IS Mongoose twice on a table now, and to see the surprise on people's face when they manage to punch past the typical light armor and get a crit roll.  Only to find out their 8 becomes a 7, thus no crit.

Last time my Mongoose so upset another player that he chased it with his whole force in the pick up game.  Two free backshots was annoying enough I guess.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

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Wolf72

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Of course it's not a bug.  It's a crustacean.

They're just tasty sea spiders!
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mbear

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Clan XXL, XL Gyro and Reinforced Internal Structure gets really interesting for speedsters.

I have run the Reinforced IS Mongoose twice on a table now, and to see the surprise on people's face when they manage to punch past the typical light armor and get a crit roll.  Only to find out their 8 becomes a 7, thus no crit.

Last time my Mongoose so upset another player that he chased it with his whole force in the pick up game.  Two free backshots was annoying enough I guess.

Might be fun to swap the lasers for Improved Heavy models.  ;)
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Battletech transport rules take a very feline approach to moving troops in a combat zone: If they fits, they ships.

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Colt Ward

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Well, the Mongoose is still set up to scout- the Bloodhound AP sits in the torso after all.

BUT . . . we do have the Havoc production line under the Sea Foxes and 4 undefined models- especially with the weight saving of SC over MASC.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

MyndkryM

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Scotty,

Any chance you could give the Blackjack and Archer from the WD Assault Star your critical eye?

https://bg.battletech.com/download/BATTLETECH%20ForcePacks%20Record%20Sheets%20-%20Wolfs%20Dragoons.pdf

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MarauderD

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Scotty,

Any chance you could give the Blackjack and Archer from the WD Assault Star your critical eye?

https://bg.battletech.com/download/BATTLETECH%20ForcePacks%20Record%20Sheets%20-%20Wolfs%20Dragoons.pdf
I’d buy that for a dollar.

Greatclub

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@scotty, I was just re-reading a couple of your guides, and something stood out to me. How does the Dasher G, at over 2K BV, get a B grade? I understand that it can easily trade up, but the sheer fragility...

I completely agree that the P deserves a B, and the H at least the same, but the G, at 2.5 times as much?

Scotty

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It's fast enough that it is functionally impossible to avoid,  it puts out 40 damage into any rear arc it wants, and it can do so with a +5 TMM and heavy woods without particularly much difficulty.  It's expensive, but it also damn near hard counters most equivalent 2K BV heavy mechs.  Normally I'd rate have rated it lower for durability, but being able to pickup a +7 defensive mod without trying very hard successfully bridges the gap when it also outguns an Awesome.
« Last Edit: 31 July 2022, 13:44:09 by Scotty »
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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And given how fast it is, it can afford to let the heat get up pretty high before it actually starts to worry about speed loss.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Jal Phoenix

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I want to see more Rec Guides soon, simply because I don't want Scotty to get anything else done this year.

Wolf72

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I want to see more Rec Guides soon, simply because I don't want Scotty to get anything else done this year.

That is something said by the face of true evil.  Well said, well said.
"We're caught in the moon's gravitational pull, what do we do?!"

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Greatclub

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It's fast enough that it is functionally impossible to avoid,  it puts out 40 damage into any rear arc it wants, and it can do so with a +5 TMM and heavy woods without particularly much difficulty.  It's expensive, but it also damn near hard counters most equivalent 2K BV heavy mechs.  Normally I'd rate have rated it lower for durability, but being able to pickup a +7 defensive mod without trying very hard successfully bridges the gap when it also outguns an Awesome.

And now I want to read "Cubby's guide to using the Fire Moth D (in the new AS box) to murder all the things"

OK, good reasoning. I'm still a bit leery of that big a squishy investment, but acknowledge that its natural prey is overwhelmingly common

wantec

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For one, the upcoming boxed set has a Pouncer mini and we never got that in the Rec Guides. Not to mention the Phantom and Naga also from TRO3055. I'm sure there are other 'Mechs that could get similar Rec Guide treatments, just to give Scotty something else to do
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For one, the upcoming boxed set has a Pouncer mini and we never got that in the Rec Guides. Not to mention the Phantom and Naga also from TRO3055. I'm sure there are other 'Mechs that could get similar Rec Guide treatments, just to give Scotty something else to do

 . . . like a KS Merc derived run of more RecGuides?  Adrian already pretty much confirmed . . . throw in references in Empire RATs to RecGuides that do not exist and it is a pretty solid bet.  Except Phantom and Naga depending on how you interpret the no omnis statement.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Sartris

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We just make up shit on the RATs sometimes to mess with people

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Colt Ward

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We just make up shit on the RATs sometimes to mess with people

I'll take things people believe for $1000 Alex.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Scotty

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. . . like a KS Merc derived run of more RecGuides?  Adrian already pretty much confirmed . . . throw in references in Empire RATs to RecGuides that do not exist and it is a pretty solid bet.  Except Phantom and Naga depending on how you interpret the no omnis statement.

Whether the Kickstarter has Omnis in it or not is totally irrelevant to the contents of the Recognition Guides.  There were almost 30 different designs in the first set of Rec Guides that were not in the Kickstarter.  There's a reason they have different threads.
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Kansas City players, or people who are just passing through the area, come join us at the Geekery just off Shawnee Mission Parkway for BattleTech!  Current days are Tuesdays in the afternoon and evening.  I can't make every single week, but odds are pretty good that somebody will be there.

Sartris

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I'll take things people believe for $1000 Alex.

I have an established record. Believing me is perilous.

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SteelRaven

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We just make up shit on the RATs sometimes to mess with people

Why not, Fasa did it for years  ;)
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Colt Ward

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Whether the Kickstarter has Omnis in it or not is totally irrelevant to the contents of the Recognition Guides.  There were almost 30 different designs in the first set of Rec Guides that were not in the Kickstarter.  There's a reason they have different threads.

Reading completely is good?  The post I responded to talked about including the Phantom & Naga b/c of TRO3055, and while we got new Omnis in the RecGuides afaik we did not get previously established Clan Omnis that were not in the Invasion KS.  The Iron Cheetah could have a case made except it was not canon until that point.  Based on the previous examples neither mech is likely to be included- the Naga also has the artillery strike against arty not being found in BMM- and Ray's 'No Omnis' statement about the KS, makes those two mechs extremely unlikely.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Sartris

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Why not, Fasa did it for years  ;)

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Moonsword

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MODERATOR NOTICE

Lower the temperature in here a little, folks.  People seem to be getting unnecessarily heated over the speculative contents of the RecGuides.

nova_dew

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For one, the upcoming boxed set has a Pouncer mini and we never got that in the Rec Guides. Not to mention the Phantom and Naga also from TRO3055. I'm sure there are other 'Mechs that could get similar Rec Guide treatments, just to give Scotty something else to do

and also to give us fantastic art, so much art that all the artists do is dream about new Mechs to give us...
A member of Clan Ghost Bears Legal Team

Scotty

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It would be amusing to watch Scotty ripe the Vulpes a new one, for example.  Although I bet he'd like to take a nice break from writing.

Bringing this thread back from the dead mostly to announce to everyone that I'm preparing a new post for the Beginner Box/GOAC box set record sheets (with some extras; likely first post tomorrow), but also I can't remember if I responded to this or not.  The Vulpes rules and the habitual wincing at the 5/8[10] movement profile will not stop me from appreciating the thermal roller coaster that is Stealth Armor on an XXL 'Mech.  It's one of a handful of units that really need every single MP they can get for reasons that aren't necessarily related to TMMs - the speed boost being the difference between medium range or long range is a big deal.
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Kansas City players, or people who are just passing through the area, come join us at the Geekery just off Shawnee Mission Parkway for BattleTech!  Current days are Tuesdays in the afternoon and evening.  I can't make every single week, but odds are pretty good that somebody will be there.

Moragion

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Bringing this thread back from the dead mostly to announce to everyone that I'm preparing a new post for the Beginner Box/GOAC box set record sheets (with some extras; likely first post tomorrow), but also I can't remember if I responded to this or not.  The Vulpes rules and the habitual wincing at the 5/8[10] movement profile will not stop me from appreciating the thermal roller coaster that is Stealth Armor on an XXL 'Mech.  It's one of a handful of units that really need every single MP they can get for reasons that aren't necessarily related to TMMs - the speed boost being the difference between medium range or long range is a big deal.

I enjoyed your reviews of the RG immensely. Really glad to see you going on with more.

VensersRevenge

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Bringing this thread back from the dead mostly to announce to everyone that I'm preparing a new post for the Beginner Box/GOAC box set record sheets (with some extras; likely first post tomorrow),

I'm excited to see these back!
...Is this just fantasy?
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Scotty

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I awaken from a deep slumber, roused by the incessant baying of mortals to demand my favor.  So be it.  The pact is sealed.  Buckle up.

This is going to start out with the eight (nine) 'Mechs with record sheets from the Game of Armored Combat box.  It is also going to include all variants for those 'Mechs found in either Record Sheets: Succession Wars or Record Sheets: Clan Invasion, but not if they were already included in a previous Recognition Guide entry.  I decided to do it this way before I actually looked up how many of these sheets there were, so I'm going to retroactively decide to split this into two volumes since it's sixty record sheets total.  I'm going to do five of the ten 'Mechs here, split in half kind of like they are in the box set.  Please hold all complaints about this format forever.

Locust LCT-1E: Everyone knows the Locust.  Twenty tons, this variant is on the side of “good enough” armor, and moves 8/12.  This variant has paired Medium Lasers and paired Small Lasers.  It is probably the best Introductory level anti-Mech bug, which sure is something that you can say about it.  On anything larger than this, barren side torsos would probably be a bad thing.  Here I cannot be bothered to care.  BV is 553, which is low enough that if you want a budget anti-Mech skirmisher and can't afford a low-end medium to do the same thing but slightly slower and slightly better, this is your 'Mech.  B

Locust LCT-1L: Another thing everyone knows about the Locust is that there are a million variants of this dumb bug.  This isn't the first, it wasn't the last, we're still not done with them and we probably never will be.  This one is weird.  Nothing about the speed (sort of) or armor has changed, but the guns are now a Medium Laser and two Machine Guns with a full ton of ammo in the center torso, exactly the same as the 1V that we'll be looking at later.  The weird part about this one is that it has Triple-Strength Myomer, despite being able to generate a grand total of 5 points of heat.  This thing is hilariously oversinked for a TSM design even for single heat sinks and it takes multiple turns of having every single heat sink off for this 'Mech to trigger the TSM.  When it does it... moves 9/14 instead and it kicks for 8 points.  Amazing.  The BV at 474 is about 40 points higher than it should be, entirely thanks to the TSM, which on most things I talk about would be fine but here is damn near 10% of the whole cost.  This is one of the variants that I'm sure someone enjoys using and more power to you, but it's badD

Locust LCT-1M: We interrupt our discussion of bad Locust variants to talk about the worst Locust variant.  This one keeps the 8/12 movement but rips out all of the guns and most of the armor (yes, really) to put on two LRM 5s and a single ton of ammo in the center torso.  Normally I would complain briefly about that and then say that something this small it's not a big deal, but this is absolutely a big deal for something that takes internal damage from a small laser to the center torso.  It's genuinely difficult to overstate how hilariously bad this armor is.  The best I can do is give it an F.

Locust LCT-1S:  This one sucks less than the 1M but I still don't like it.  The movement curve is unchanged, and the armor is somewhere between the 1M and 1E/1L.  This puts it in the category of “bad” but is saved from being “catastrophic” by not being the 1M.  It isn't even the most dangerous variant so far, either, with a Medium Laser and two SRM 2s, losing to the 1E.  The ammo for the SRM is in the center torso, and this time the fact that the side torsos are empty only makes that hit more likely.  The 1M has a tiny bit of excuse that it's not supposed to be up close.  This one has no such excuse.  But it does have more than two tons of armor so it's saved from being The Worst.  The BV here is 424 which is low enough to at least briefly consider but honestly just pay for the 1E if you really want a Locust that punches in the Introductory tech level.  This one has some small utility against vehicles thanks to infernos, but struggles to consistently put enough infernos into a battle armor squad to be a threat.  Don't try it.  D

Locust LCT-1V: The Ur-Locust, but not good just because it's the original.  This is the 1L without the TSM, exactly, and 432 BV as a result instead of 474.  It's still not great.  See above re: use the 1E instead.  C-

Locust LCT-1V2: This is the first Locust that's wild in a good way.  The main gun is still a Medium Laser, but the arms have two Rocket Launcher 10s each.  No ammo to explode, just a single big red button push and a cloud of smoke.  Armor is genuinely good for a 20 ton frame, meaning that this one is more likely to be able to push the big red button and then just leave than most of the others, and it will absolutely want to do that.  BV is higher than average at 568.  This is particularly good as a dedicated striker against a single, sluggish target or building, but struggles in direct or sustained engagements.  In the right scenario it's Good, but on the whole it's probably average or subpar, I think.  C-

Locust LCT-3V: This variant is based on the 1V, and cuts the machine gun ammo in half (good) and removes a half ton of armor (bad) to mount an additional Medium Laser (good) and puts the half ton of ammo in the left torso where it's the only crit slot (very bad).  Overall it's just a worse 1E, again, with some extra anti-infantry capability and the defensive ability to explode into a million pieces, potentially confusing its natural predators until the pilot's ejection pod lands somewhere safe.  C-

Locust LCT-5M: At last, the variant that commands the 1E to stand aside and the 1E listens.  This Locust uses an XL Engine and XL Gyro to move 12/18, half again faster than every other variant so far, and does so with four ER Small Lasers and an ER Medium Laser.  And it has the best armor of any variant in this review so far.  There are still only 10 single heat sinks, but this means a running alpha is +5 and you drop to only 11/17 on the turn you get out of there.  I am for some reason unconcerned.  The only downside is that the BV has finally shot way past 600 to sit at 719.  This makes it something that does need to be seriously considered, rather than just slamming the buy button as many times as you feel like.  It's also not the best Locust out there (which is not appearing in this volume, but your free spoiler is that the 1Vb is the Once and Future King of Locusts), but in the right hands can do serious good stuff.  A-

Griffin GRF-1E 'Sparky': Sometimes doing these variants alphabetically is a pain, because the unquestionably best variant is right at the front when it wouldn't be if I tackled the feature variants first.  Oh well.  Say hello to “Sparky”, a Griffin with a PPC and five Medium Lasers, 13 single heat sinks, and the most armor out of any Griffin in this volume.  The movement profile is still 5/8/5, too.  You pay for it at 1449 BV, almost a full 200 higher than the base 1N, but it's difficult to argue that it's not 200 points better, if not more.  It loses a bit of damage at long range with only the PPC, but the heat curve is intuitive (+2 when jumping, -1 when running) at range and up close is slightly more pressing (+4 when running and firing all five lasers) but outguns anything it can't outrun at that range.  The only disappointing part (besides this design style being painfully boring in Introtech land) is that all the lasers aren't in the right torso so you can't pretend they're all in the missile housing.  A

Griffin GRF-1N: 5/8/5, LRM 10, PPC.  Simple as.  Two tons of ammo for the LRM are in the right torso and mean you can take potshots with it at range without worry for overall endurance.  Twelve heat sinks is not enough, but a jumping alpha will only get you to +7 and won't affect targeting the next turn in the event you need it, and jumping movement is unaffected.  Runs hot, struggles to force PSRs.  Decent armor.  It will be an eternal mystery to me that this is regarded more highly than the Shadow Hawk 2H despite roughly equivalent damage from a cold start and then way less after that.  BV is 1272 and honestly I wouldn't take it willingly at that price when the aforementioned Shadow Hawk exists.  More on that next volume.  C

Griffin GRF-1S: This variant trades the PPC and LRM 10 for a Large Laser, two Medium Lasers, and an LRM 5, plus four more heat sinks to 16 total, making it better in basically every single way except long range damage.  In exchange for this incredible improvement, the BV drops to 1253, and really I can't think of a better example of why the 1N isn't very good than the fact that this is right next to it in the book.  B+

Wolverine WVR-6D: I love AC/10s.  This is not a good 'Mech for an AC/10.  The big gun is joined by a single Medium Laser for a total amount of damage that is really not good for a 55 tonner even in Introductory tech times.  The speed is there at 5/8/5, and so is the armor I checked the armor again and it's worse than I thought at first glance, skimping especially hard on the legs.  This 'Mech definitely heard the “pick two” part of the classic speed/guns/armor and stuck to its (lack of) guns.  Two tons of ammo is the right choice, but putting one ton in the left torso with only a single jump jet to keep it company was not.  Eleven single heat sinks is enough to be neutral on a jumping alpha, and in this case that heat sink would almost certainly be better as another Medium Laser.  It is not, though, and we have this at 1115 BV where it's honestly not terrible against its contemporaries but as the game advances this thing becomes less and less good.  It's a shame that this is a relatively new variant in real terms, because I think it'd have been much better received in the late 80s than it is by me now.  C-

Wolverine WVR-6K: Comparing this to the 6D is almost cruel.  Here we have a Large Laser, two Medium Lasers, a Small Laser, and an SRM 6.  The gulf in firepower here is enormous, and there's also a lot of extra armor particularly on the legs (26 points versus the 6D's 16) and center torso (25 to 20).  The jump jets are gone and where most of the free tonnage came from.  There's one huge downside, which is the SRM ammo alone in the right torso, that keeps these two closer together than they possibly could have been, but this is still just better, especially at only 1248.  At that cost it also buries the Griffin 1N even further in the ground and compares pretty evenly to the 1S.  More firepower and armor at the cost of a couple heat sinks and some maneuverability.  The torso bomb waiting to happen keeps them from being truly equal, though.  B

Wolverine WVR-6M: Everyone likes to call this the best Wolverine of the time.  Everyone is right.  The weapons are the same as the 6K minus one Small Laser not being present, but we have jump jets to be back at 5/8/5 and only one ton of SRM ammo, which is actually protected by some other non-ammo crits even if CASE isn't available yet.  The difference is made up by what appears to be a single ton of armor, taken mostly from the legs.  The BV is 1291, and given how much more maneuverable it is than the 6K this is definitely the Winner of the Wolverine contest in 3025.  B+

Wolverine WVR-6R: This is the original Wolverine, and compares fairly poorly to the 6M.  Instead of a Large Laser and Medium Laser, there's an AC/5 with a ton of ammo.  To make that math fit there are also two fewer heat sinks and a ton less armor that comes out of basically every location except the head.  The BV drops pretty significantly to 1101, but we're now struggling badly to force a PSR where the 6M was capable of doing so if not regularly then often enough to be a feature.  Heat is less of an issue, but it's not possible to push the curve on this one either which is something I consider a benefit.  Overall it's just Not As Good, which is not to say it's Bad.  C

Wolverine WVR-8K: (I tried to do these all alphabetically and then I messed up and did this one before the 8C and 8D.  The content here made no sense if read after the 8C and 8D so I've left the wrong order in place.  Oops.)  I had a handful of other Wolverine variants on this list but realized I'd already done them in the Recognition Guides series (volume 18) so they have been cut out of this review.  That makes this version lack some context, but I'll do my best.  Here we have an ER PPC, ER Medium Laser, Medium Pulse Laser, and Streak SRM 6 with one ton of ammo.  That's a lot of gun, powered by an XL Engine.  Fifteen doubles is hilariously oversinked, coming in at exactly heat neutral on a run if the Streak locks and -4 if it doesn't.  Jumping is +5 if the Streak locks at +1 if it doesn't, making the Streak locking the difference between a movement penalty or not if the jump happened.  Fortunately on a jump the Streak is likely to miss, and if you do hit it's probably making up for itself.  Not perfect, but not bad either.  The armor is excellent, meaning that while this is overall slightly more fragile than earlier Wolverines the extra firepower is a pretty serious counterbalance.  The ammo is in the left torso with eight other crit slots occupied, so it's relatively unlikely to be the reason this 'Mech dies.  It's protected by CASE but this means ultimately nothing in a vacuum for an XL engine 'Mech.  At 1576 this is creeping up into the Expensive category, but it puts in enough work to earn its keep.  Solid 'Mech solidly built, no obvious misses and some room for improvement with heat management.  B+

Wolverine WVR-8C: This shares a lot with the 8K, including large chunks of the armor and the XL Engine.  The weapons are switched up, removing the ER PPC, ER Medium Laser, and four heat sinks in exchange for a Large Pulse Laser, a Small Pulse Laser, and a second Streak SRM 6 plus a C3 Slave computer.  This is... honestly a pretty damn good C3 spotter, if I have to say so.  If both Streaks lock during a jump the heat goes up +3, during a run it's heat neutral.  If one Streak fails to lock both movement modes are sinking heat.  This means you can be pretty reckless with jumping, relying on the pulse bonus to offset your numbers, and providing short range for the rest of the C3 lance.  The armor is still good, and it's impossible to ignore while being difficult to remove.  The BV is also lower than the 8K at 1447, making this one of the standout picks for a medium C3 formation that I can think of wanting to take.  Forcing a PSR isn't so much possible as it is commonplace if you're getting anything approaching good numbers, and only one or two weapons have to connect to do it.  Good stuff.  A

Wolverine WVR-8D: And I'm finally back after looking at this record sheet in detail.  MASC to go 5/8[10]/5, ammo in multiple side torsos protected by multiple CASEs on an XL Engined 'Mech.  A half ton of armor spent on one point in the center torso.  A RAC/2 and an ER Medium as the only two weapons linked to a Targeting Computer to make it three tons instead of two.  God, what a trainwreck of a 'Mech.  With 10 doubles you can technically get back to heat neutral if you jump and go full bore with the RAC.  There's enough ammo here, at least.  The BV is 1547 and if you think I would ever take this 'Mech without having it forced upon me I am assigning you some required reading homework of the previous volumes in this series.  D

Wolverine WVR-9D: You tried.  Take the 8D, remove the jump jets and the Targeting Computer, put in two Medium Pulse Lasers and TAG.  Leave everything else the same.  Definitely more dangerous in a fight, still hitting the wrong side of a bad TMM break.  We're also up to 12 doubles for... reasons I can only speculate on, because it definitely isn't sinking the maximum of 18 heat on a running alpha at full rate of fire.  All the ammo is in the same torso now, which after the last variant I'll take as a small win.  The BV drops to 1369 which is at least usable compared to the 8D but is still badly hampered by a couple weird decisions.  I wouldn't scoff at being handed this sheet in a game, at least.  C-

Catapult CPLT-A1: If everyone knows the Locust, everyone knows the Catapult.  Most of its variants it's very clearly visible what it's supposed to be doing and how.  The A1 is no exception.  We start off with 65 tons and 4/6/4 with pretty good armor (and very good rear armor).  Then we add missiles.  Two LRM 15s with four tons of ammo is honestly pretty dang flexible compared to some others, but that's where the good parts of this 'Mech end pretty abruptly.  Not only does the A1 have exactly zero backup weapons, something that would be fine on a Clan 'Mech but is ruinous here, it's also got 15 single heat sinks and a maximum jumping alpha heat build up of 14.  What.  Rip out two of those heat sinks for literally anything that isn't more ammo and you instantly improve everything about this 'Mech.  My personal pick would be four Small Lasers but the specifics aren't as important as identifying that this is a big problem.  The BV is 1285, which is fine for its offensive output in a vacuum but if anything gets close to this (and it will) then it's very not fine.  C-

Catapult CPLT-C1: The Classic.  Most of what I just said about the A1 does not apply to the C1, for better or for worse.  It has half the ammo (not great), four Medium Lasers (extremely good), the same number of heat sinks (honestly this is merely 'fine' but I'll take it over the A1), and less armor (bad).  This is on the balance better, but it's not great.  BV climbs all the way to 1399 and that's honestly the reason this variant isn't in my preferred variants list.  I'll take one over the A1 but you'll still visible distaste if you try to hand me this record sheet.  C

Catapult CPLT-C1 (Jenny) 'Butterbee': Unrelated to the performance of this variant, I hate personal variants.  I'd rather just not get these record sheets outside of genuinely Sphere-wide notoriety and this person just ain't it.  The variant is... pretty bad, honestly.  The two LRM 15s and two tons of ammo on the C1 are removed for four SRM 6s and four tons of ammo and that is the full extent of changes.  What this does is take a decent-to-good bracket machine and make it the Easy Bake Oven of Death.  Fifteen singles is enough to handle just the SRMs (+3 running) but adding the Medium Lasers is what we like to call in the business A Bad Idea, up to a +15 running alpha or +17 jumping one.  All of these weapons have the same ranges, so there's no good trade-off here besides whether your target is “armor plate (full)” or “armor plate (partial)” or I guess “vehicle”.  The armor is not good enough to support having to get and stay that close and the temptation to press the big red button will never go away and it is never a good idea.  The BV is down, as it should be, to 1242 but I can't honestly recommend this over the C1.  Or over the abstract concept of just not taking a Catapult in your force.  Ask me about the Alpha Strike card later, where everything changed when the Fire Nation attacked and it's suddenly very useful to be able to cosplay an incandescent light bulb. D-

Catapult CPLT-C1b: This Catapult, much like the Warhammer 7A, is an excellent example of how to upgrade a classic design with new tech.  All the weapons are exactly the same, but the use of Endo Steel, Ferro-Fibrous, and double heat sinks turns this into a totally new 'Mech.  Ammo is up to four tons, armor is up a couple tons, heat sinks are down to 12 but are now up to 24 dissipation.  Your Catapult is no longer a 'bracket fire' design, it is now a multi-tasker where you can and probably should be engaging multiple targets every turn while holding down every trigger you can get your grubby little mitts on and cackling like a maniac.  The ammo even has CASE now, in both torsos.  The engine is still standard, so it's very durable and even if everything except the center torso has been shot off you still have some lasers to keep shooting with.  This has all resulted in a BV jump to 1570, and it's worth it.  This is one of a couple Catapults that I'll look for every single time if I'm not trying to do something weird and gimmicky with my force.  A

Catapult CPLT-C4:  Two LRM 20s and two Small Lasers.  Four tons of ammo for the launchers is enough, barely.  The armor has been rearranged and initially looked a bit better but is definitely not better everywhere except the legs.  To make room for the big boy launchers the heat sinks are down to 10 singles, meaning that firing them both gets you up to +4 heat.  This is the very bare minimum of acceptable for a design like this.  BV is very nearly as high as the C1 at 1358 and I would probably take the C1 most of the time.  I would call this a budget Archer but you're not even saving that much.  C-

Catapult CPLT-K2: Now for something completely different.  No missiles at all, no jump jets, armor only barely shy of the C1b.  Two PPCs and the heat sinks to use them (20 singles).  There are also two Medium Lasers that you should definitely be using primarily to cool off, and two Machine Guns that you should definitely never deploy with ammo in the bin, ever, because it's a full ton and sitting right in the center torso.  So close.  The firing pattern is honestly pretty intuitive and I like it, starting off with two turns of PPCs at a run (+2 each), then switching to one PPC and both Mediums once the range closes (-2 at a run) and cycling those back and forth based on distance to target and heat.  You have the option that I don't recommend often taking of firing all guns to get to a toasty but not unreasonable +8.  Sometimes you really just do need to seal the deal.  BV is lower than the C1 at 1319 and if it weren't for the center torso ammo bomb I'd call this one better.  In the end it's still probably a more 'conventional' pick.  I joked about calling the C4 a budget Archer, and this definitely feels like a budget Warhammer, but this one actually has some upside compared to its bigger counterpart in the form of flipping arms and excellent leg armor. B-

Catapult CPLT-K3: The K3 takes the K2 and turns the heat sinks to doubles but keeps the same number (20) and turns the PPCs into ER PPCs.  This is hilarious overkill on the heat sinks and you can get all the way to a sweltering -4 on a run (remember, no jump jets) if you really feel ambitious.  The guns are definitely longer range and more accurate, and you no longer have a firing pattern so much as you have a brick permanently propped on the firing stud.  The biggest flaw has not been fixed, either, with a full ton of machine gun ammo sitting in the center torso.  Swap that out for another pair of Medium Lasers and you'd have something genuinely spectacular, but they weren't and you don't.  With a BV of 1437 this is definitely still worth taking and is even good, it's just tragically marred by some very easily correctable flaws.  B

Awesome AWS-8Q: I've called a lot of things “the Classic” in this post and that's because they are.  Behold, the Classic Awesome.  80 tons and 3/5, three PPCs and 28 heat sinks.  There's technically a Small Laser here but I will not be bringing it up again because why bother.  This is one of the original Assault 'Mechs and it feels like it.  There's a lot of improvement coming down the line in new tech, but this is about as good as you can do for a line anchor in 3025.  Solid, dependable, no frills.  Weapons fire is +4 for the PPCs at a run and +2 for stationary, and this is one of very few 'Mechs that I feel like is just better stationary than in motion, for extending your firing pattern from 3-2-3-2 to 3-3-3-2 because you no longer care about keeping your movement up.  The BV is the highest we've seen in a while at 1605 but it's worth that just for being the anvil upon which your opponent is broken.  A-

Awesome AWS-8R: I hate this.  This is a Catapult with an weight problem.  No, this is a Catapult with a lot of problems.  The weapons are now a Large Laser and two LRM 15s with two tons of ammo (and a Small Laser), but there are still 28 heat sinks here and now they're hideously wasted by coming to a grand total of -7 heat at a run.  I think I'm going to be ill.  And then the ammo is in the center torso because I wasn't already hating this enough.  It's not faster, it's not tougher, it's just worse.  The BV dropping to 1470 isn't enough to save it from the garbage bin.  F

Awesome AWS-8T: This is the 8R that trades five heat sinks for a Large Laser and in doing so succeeds in not making me violently ill.  It's still not great, the ammo is still in the center torso, but now you can actually overheat to the tune of +5 while running and firing all the big guns.  Not ideal, though you can mitigate it by walking on the big turn.  You want to be at either exactly 7 hexes or exactly 5 to get short range on one set of guns and a +2 on the other.  Anything inside that is not ideal, anything from 8-10 is acceptable.  Past that you don't want to be firing both sets of guns unless you catch someone sleeping.  Either both Larges and one missile to save ammo, or both missiles and one laser to save heat.  This at least has playability, even if at 1593 I'd take the 8Q every day.  C-

Awesome AWS-8V: What the hell kind of Frankenstein idiocy is this?  A mixture of all three previous variants, this one has a PPC, a Large Laser, and an LRM 15, and the 28 heat sinks of the 8Q and 8R.  This makes it oversinked at -3 on a run, and it struggles to find the best hex for all of its guns.  It has a better time finding a good hex than the 8T, though, with anything between 5 and 7 now being Good and up to 10 still being Decent.  The ammo is enough to take low probability shots without being a problem, but it being in the center torso is still not great.  The BV at 1510 makes this more attractive to me than the 8T, but not by much, and far, far behind the 8Q.  C

'Mechs by rating:

F - 2
D - 4
C - 12
B - 7
A - 5
S - none
Catalyst Demo Agent #679

Kansas City players, or people who are just passing through the area, come join us at the Geekery just off Shawnee Mission Parkway for BattleTech!  Current days are Tuesdays in the afternoon and evening.  I can't make every single week, but odds are pretty good that somebody will be there.

mbear

  • Stood Far Back When The Gravitas Was Handed Out
  • Major
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    • Tower of Jade
FWLIW, Scotty, I think the Locust 1L was the test-bed for the original TSM which didn't require heat to activate.
Be the Loremaster:

Battletech transport rules take a very feline approach to moving troops in a combat zone: If they fits, they ships.

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your BT experience. Now what? (Thanks Sartis!)

Moragion

  • Master Sergeant
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Although I really like the Wolverine, I agree that the 6R is rather anemic when it comes to weapons. It's main redeemable trait is that it's beefy, and tends to last. But I expect more from a medium mech than just be a brick.
On the other side, the AWS-8T is not that bad. A friend used one in a mini campaign, set in 3025, and it was a nightmare, too beefy, and dealing enough damage to put mechs down. Not as good as an 8Q, but not many things are in that era.

 

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