Author Topic: Phantom 'Mech for AToW Discussion  (Read 1429 times)

Daryk

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Phantom 'Mech for AToW Discussion
« on: 14 June 2022, 18:15:23 »
To avoid cluttering up Cannonshop's excellent fan fiction any more, I propose carrying on further discussion of the topic here.

First, a possible fluff explanation: What if "Phantom 'Mech" is an emergent response from the DI computer to a certain brainwave pattern?  Bear with me for a moment: DI computer programming could very likely have been evolved via machine learning techniques that hide a LOT.  And given the ubiquity of that programming due to the tecnology having all been stolen from the Hegemony in the first place, it could certainly emerge on any given 'mech.  Consider the possibility of even a bog standard suite of electronics responding to "fight or flight" repsonses at a subconcious level.  Then amp that up with the tweaks certainly present in the legendary 'mechs of the canon characters known to have manifested the ability, or the many extra tons of electronics on Henry Ngo's Shaky Sue.

As far as TW scale rules, the previous incarnations all seem quite over the top.  Personally, I'd simply apply Null Sig or somesuch bonuses, but let them stack with any of those existing systems.

With regard to AToW, I think I would require a character to have achieved three SPAs in one of the other categories before being allowed to take the "Phantom 'Mech" SPA (in its own very special category).  I'd also charge through the nose for it (say 1,000 XP), with an EDG minimum of around 5.

Thoughts?  Other ideas?  Please discuss here!  :thumbsup:

Vehrec

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Re: Phantom 'Mech for AToW Discussion
« Reply #1 on: 14 June 2022, 18:44:47 »
Phantom Mech being over the top is kinda the point?  I don't think it should be in any way fair or balanced.  It's Phantom Mech being broken is the point.

On the flipside, however, it should only be available by special game-runner dispensation-getting Phatom Mech should be a significant character turning point, and ought to be reflected as such-either used as a one-time deal in a last depserate stand, or it's triggering should cause someone to question their identity enough tor retire as a PC.
*Insert support for fashionable faction of the week here*

Daryk

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Re: Phantom 'Mech for AToW Discussion
« Reply #2 on: 14 June 2022, 19:12:09 »
GM approval is certainly a sine qua non requirement!  :thumbsup:

DOC_Agren

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Re: Phantom 'Mech for AToW Discussion
« Reply #3 on: 14 June 2022, 21:01:18 »
So Daryk what are the last known rules?

Here my take on it:
While BT doesn't have "Magic/Psi" rules..  we do have the Visions of the Nova Cat and the Scorpions, the "dreams" of a COMSTAR Primus which seem to tell of the "Clans".   PMA is nothing more the someone who has fully accepted death is coming, whose mindset is in the right place.  That right place is important, in the wrong place you have effectively a Beserker who will moved to kill without fear of their own death.

PMA is more of a Zen battlefield outlook, you can have a more effective dodge may cause the opponent to lose his balance and leave himself open for a decisive counter-attack.
Explains the increase targeting # and Better to hit roles that I remember reading I think in Cannonshop story

You require GM approval

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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Phantom 'Mech for AToW Discussion
« Reply #4 on: 14 June 2022, 21:59:31 »
Something worth noting is that the rules originally as written worked against all types of units, including conventional infantry, and that at one point during the Warrior Trilogy, it is specifically noted that Morgan's Archer should have been struck by weapons fire (as in Dan Allard watches a stream of tracers running straight into his chest) but simply wasn't. The only time Morgan would have been hit during the course of the book was during the training fight where Dan used a program to take his and his mech's perception of his opponent completely out of the equation, by telling the computer to shoot at the source of the medium laser fire.

While the conventional infantry thing could have been an oversight or a deliberate choice not to think about it as hard, the scenes in the warrior trilogy definitely hints that it's more than just being "harder to hit".

Take that how you will. Maybe phantom mech isn't just mucking with sensors. Maybe it's also mucking with people's perceptions, so that even a rifleman without any sort of electronic assistance or an experienced mechwarrior watching it through their cockpit glass is somehow affected.  Maybe it just no-sells hits sometimes.

(Or if someone wants to tone it down and make it seem less weird, maybe we ignore those parts)

Also for what it's worth, here's the port I wrote for the "And I feel fine setting", which mostly directly copies the rules with some adjustment for rules changes and the setting. In this case it is explicitly overpowered in a way that actively terrifies people.

For the purposes of target movement modifiers, a mech piloted by a pilot with phantom mech is always treated as though it has moved at least ten hexes, unless it has moved further than that. The mech is also treated as being at twice the range it actually is, and opposing units gain none of the benefits of a targeting computer or C3 Network if targeting the pilot's mech.

Active Probes, including Beagle, Bloodhound, Watchdog, or Nova CEWS, will not detect a hidden mech piloted by a pilot with phantom mech. Streak SRM or LRM launchers will normally refuse to target, and therefore fire on someone using phantom mech, but may be overriden with a standard piloting check (or computers if using the RPG rules), in which case they function as standard SRMs or LRMs for the remainder of the scenario. Artemis IV, Artemis V, and Apollo FCS provide no benefit when attacking someone using phantom mech.

The pilot gains the benefits of a targeting computer, which does not stack if his mech already has a targeting computer.

Phantom Mech functions only when the pilot is piloting a mech of Hegemony (Bastion) manufacture, or a mech manufactured in the Terran Hegemony before the fall of the Star League but after the Reunification War, or one that has been properly retrofitted with a DI computer of hegemony origin. Though swapping out DI computers is a trivial matter, installing one properly to allow phantom mech to function requires a technician with actual knowledge and experience in the ability and what it requires, and requires 200 minutes and a technician skill roll at a +6 tn modifier, with a partial repair value of 2. A partial repair result indicates a DI computer that is incorrectly installed and actually imposes a +2 penalty on all piloting skill checks and does not allow for phantom mech to be used.

Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Daryk

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Re: Phantom 'Mech for AToW Discussion
« Reply #5 on: 15 June 2022, 03:39:15 »
I'll have to catch up after work tonight... out of time this morning...

worktroll

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Re: Phantom 'Mech for AToW Discussion
« Reply #6 on: 15 June 2022, 03:42:21 »
I prefer the idea that Hanse Davion sold some/all of his soul to demonic entities to get the ability. Yoranaga and Morgan may have accidentally fallen into some form of possession, based on perceived nearness to death, in this event.
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Col Toda

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Re: Phantom 'Mech for AToW Discussion
« Reply #7 on: 15 June 2022, 07:17:36 »
EDGE OF 7 AND illeagal quirk . And Ghost imagining without using ECM suite. 700 Edg . 300 illeagal design. 150 to represent ECM . 300 to represent Armored componants engine gyro and cockpit .  So 1450-1500XP . Must burn 1 point perminant edge to use in a battle which must be bought back with XP .
« Last Edit: 15 June 2022, 07:20:13 by Col Toda »

Sabelkatten

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Re: Phantom 'Mech for AToW Discussion
« Reply #8 on: 15 June 2022, 07:29:56 »
I prefer the idea that Hanse Davion sold some/all of his soul to demonic entities to get the ability. Yoranaga and Morgan may have accidentally fallen into some form of possession, based on perceived nearness to death, in this event.
I figure Hanse is a great old one in human guise... ^-^

Daryk

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Re: Phantom 'Mech for AToW Discussion
« Reply #9 on: 15 June 2022, 18:27:30 »
I like your idea of ensuring the DI computer is actually based on Hegemony technology at some level Liam, so +1 for that!  :thumbsup:

Col Toda: I like the idea of burning a permanent point of EDG.  I think that works very well with a minimum EDG of 5 to make it work (meaning it has a minimum cost of 500XP to use).

So, at this point I'm sold on:

1) The DI computer must be derived from a Terran Hegemony design after the Reunification War.
2) Minimum requirements include:
     a) Maxing out a single class of SPA (i.e., three SPAs of the same flavor, which has some pretty steep requirements of its own).
     b) Current EDG of 5.
     c) Burning a point of permanent EDG to activate in combat.
     d) GM approval.
     e) 1,000 XP cost, which includes 300 for the Illegal quirk.
3) Benefits include:
     a) +4 target modifier to be hit that stacks with all other benefits from installed equipment, movement, terrain, or battlefield conditions.
     b) Invisibility to sensors one step better than that provided by installed ECM (i.e., essentially a Guardian on 'mech without any, Angel on 'mech with a Guardian, and invisibility to even Bloodhounds if an Angel is installed).

4) Things I'm not (yet) sold on:
     a) Doubling the effective range from enemies.  This is HARD to explain.
     b) Anything like CLPS/Void-Signature, since all descriptions have the 'mechs in question plainly visible.
     c) Streak/Artemis effects as proposed by Liam.  They make sense, but I'm not quite sure about them.
     d) Targeting Computer bonuses.

5) Things we haven't really talked about yet:
     a) AOE weapons (specifically Artillery Cannons).
     b) Col Toda's proposal of Armored Components (I have NO idea where that came from).

Col Toda

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Re: Phantom 'Mech for AToW Discussion
« Reply #10 on: 16 June 2022, 09:11:24 »
It comes from the ability to ignore 1 critical that would otherwized destroy the mech be it the 3rd engine hit or 2nd  gyro or a cockpit hit .

Daryk

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Re: Phantom 'Mech for AToW Discussion
« Reply #11 on: 16 June 2022, 17:35:16 »
Thanks for that, though I'm still not sold on the idea...