put on the existential horror hat...

[Cannonshop]

Okay: Technical/strategic problem.

You have to devise a fleet unit cheap enough to be built in quantity, for the single and sole purpose of maintaining a Quarantine over an area with a 60 Light Year radius, containing over a dozen star systems.

The mission is complicated by the presence of Pirates along one border, and Clans on the other.  One is unlikely to take the plague beacons seriously, and the other may take them entirely TOO seriously and start unbottling their othewise-dezgra nuclear stockpiles.

The plague is around 99.95% fatal, has a 'dormant period' measured in weeks where patients show few to no symptoms and are contagious, with over 99.99% probability of infection on exposure.

Your mission is to keep it contained, and keep the region from being hit by opportunists who don't realize that money 'just laying around' is crawling with durable, dangerous, death.

For this, you need a strategic plan to keep the systems with KNOWN infection vectors isolated, and that goes both ways...

and you can't afford to land troops anywhere.

Tech level is late 3050s and earlier.  For the purposes of this, assume the national government is willing to spend like a drunken congressman and has had the living shit scared out of them, but you need to make enough of this to keep those systems bottled up.

I know what I've used in the past, but I'm open to better/newer suggestions here.

Oh, and assume you're going to have to work up your Naval doctrine on the fly, because it's the 3050s and nobody's fought a real fleet action (and most of the Inner Sphere haven't had real fleets) in centuries.

So, submit your proposals, and describe how you're going to use them.

[Daryk]

What you've used before worked.  Regular jump drives are far too expensive, and relying on DropShips means having to defend too close to the planet for the inbound nuke problem.  I rolled back my Sampan designs to a Mark I version below:

Code: [Select]

Sampan Mark I
Tonnage 50,000.0
Thrust 12,000.0 4/6
Fuel 2,000.0 204.7082907 Burn Days
Pumps     40.0
SI 5,000.0 100
KF Drive 25,000.0 15 LY Integrity: 3
Sail     33.0 Integrity: 3
Controls    125.0
Base Crew Quarters    275.0 5 55 Base Crew
Heat Sinks      0.0 199 Free/199 Total
Armor    100.0 80 Standard Points
ER Large Lasers     10.0 2 5 Nose 12 heat each 24
White Shark Launchers    480.0 4 120 4 Corners 15 heat each 60
Small Lasers      8.0 16 0.5 Dual mounts in all arcs 16
Medium Lasers     24.0 24 1 Triple mounts in all arcs 72
Communications Equipment      2.0 2 1 2 additional crew 172 Total Heat
Hi-Res Imager      5.0 1 5
Small Craft Cubicles    200.0 1 200 5 Bay Racks each
ASF Cubicles    900.0 6 150 2 Bay Racks each
Gunners     55.0 5 11 Long Term Quarters
RTOs     10.0 5 2 Long Term Quarters
Bay Crew    110.0 5 22 Long Term Quarters
Marines    150.0 5 30 Long Term Quarters
Armored Marines     60.0 5 12 Long Term Quarters
Infantry Bay (Foot)     10.0 5 2 30 Bay Racks Each
BA Bays     24.0 8 3 6 Bay Racks Each
BA Techs     15.0 5 3 Long Term Quarters
Doors      0.0 0 8 1 Small Craft, 6 ASF, 1 Cargo
MASH      3.5 3.5 1 1 Operating Theater
Medical Team     25.0 5 5 Long Term Quarters
"Field Kitchen"      3.0 3 1 3 additional crew
Cooks     15.0 5 3 Long Term Quarters
Upgrade CO/XOs cabins     10.0 5 2 Officer Quarters; they share a "Jack and Jill" head
Life Boats    238.0 7 34
Missle Bays 1,600.0 16 100 40 tons per White Shark (10 in each bay)
Consumables    347.5 0.695 500 Crew Days (1 Crew Day = 139 Man Days = 0.695 tons)
Cargo 1,142.0 Usually more food, always equipment for harvesting water from asteroids

It costs out at 2,536,818,000:

Code: [Select]

Costs
Controls
Bridge       700,000
Computer       200,000
Life Support     1,170,000
Sensors        80,000
Fire Control Computer       100,000
Gunnery Control Systems        80,000
Structure    10,000,000
Drive Unit     1,000,000
Engine    12,000,000
Engine Control Unit         1,000
K-F Drive
Drive Coil    60,000,000
Initiator    25,000,000
Controller    50,000,000
Liquid He Tankage       150,000
Sail     1,650,000
Charging System       500,000
K-F Support Systems 1,100,000,000
Attitude Thrusters        25,000
Docking Collar       100,000
Fuel Tank       400,000
Armor     1,000,000
Heat Sinks       398,000
Crew Quarters       695,000
Officer Upgrades        50,000
Lifeboats       170,000
ASF Cubicles       120,000
Small Craft Cubicles        20,000
Infantry Bays       150,000
BA Bays       360,000
ER Large Lasers       400,000
White Shark Launchers       520,000
Small Lasers       180,000
Medium Lasers       960,000
MASH Core Unit        35,000
Field Kitchen        25,000
2 Tons Communications Equipment        20,000
Hi-Res Imager       150,000
Sub Total 1,268,409,000
Final Cost 2,536,818,000
The crew (139) and extra racks (95):

Code: [Select]

Marines 50
Officers   3 (1 BA)
Foot 28
BA 11
Medics   5 Chief (PA) and 4 Corpsmen
BA Techs   3

Air Wing 18
Pilots   8
Air Crew   3
Techs   7

Wardroom 11
CO   1
XO/Nav   1
Airboss   1
Eng   1
Weps   1
Div Os   6 DCA, 1st LT, Ops/ANAV, Guns, Missiles, Supply

Crew 58
CMC   1 Direct Report to CO
Ship's Sec   1 Direct Report to XO
Missiles   6
Supply   5 Includes the cooks
Guns   8
Ops 12
Deck 15
Engineering 12
Total Crew 139

Extra Racks
Flight Bays 17
Marine Bays 60
BA Bays 18
Total 95

[BATTLEMASTER]

Here's my proposal.  Use off-the-shelf dropships.  In this case I chose one of the most-common ships, the Buccaneer.  I fitted it with FA armor, increased its fuel to sustain about 280 days of 1G burn with enough food for the crew to match the same.  Weapons were beefed up with a combination of ER PPCs and large pulse lasers.  The main weapons, though, are a pair of White Shark launchers with fifteen missiles in each launcher's magazine.  Nuclear weapons are strongly encouraged, of course!  Three AMS per arc are equipped for point defense.

Because the ship is not capable of FTL speed, it needs common jumpships to move them between systems.  However, an on-board HPG Black Box facilitates system-to-system communication.  This ship is unable to take prisoners on its own or conduct boarding actions so its purpose is to outright disable or destroy unwanted guests then use its HPG Black Box to call in support for other desired operations.

Why is the thing so expensive?  It's the mobile HPG, otherwise it's a few hundred million C-Bills.  The ship is a victim of FASAnomics ::)

So here is the Buccaneer Long-Range Patrol Ship

Code: [Select]

Buccaneer (3053 LRPS)
Type: Military Aerodyne
Mass: 3,500 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3053
Mass: 3,500
Battle Value: 6,392
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-E-D
Cost: 325,234,800 C-bills

Fuel: 525.5 tons (15,765)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Heat Sinks: 130 (260)
Structural Integrity: 8

Armor
    Nose: 203
    Sides: 165/165
    Aft: 144

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Cargo (232.0 tons)      1 Door   

Ammunition:
    144 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (4 tons),
    30 rounds of White Shark ammunition (1,200 tons)

Escape Pods: 3
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  4 officers, 11 enlisted/non-rated, 6 gunners

Notes: Mounts 36 tons of ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:                                      Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (83 Heat)
2 ER PPC                                  30   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)    0(0)  PPC         
1 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)  15   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)  Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (15 shots)
1 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)  15   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)  Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (15 shots)
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
3 Anti-Missile System                      3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (36 shots)
RW/LW (53 Heat)
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
2 ER PPC                                  30   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)    0(0)  PPC         
3 Anti-Missile System                      3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (36 shots)
Aft (43 Heat)
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
2 Large Pulse Laser                       20   2(18)   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
3 Anti-Missile System                      3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (36 shots)



[Daryk]

Heavy FA is available in the 3050s? ???

[BATTLEMASTER]

Heavy FA is available in the 3050s? ???

At least according to MegaMekLab  :P  It could be wrong though!  Otherwise substitute it with the same mass of FA armor and take a hit in armor factor in each arc as long as the factor is about a couple points above a threshold value.

Another thought about the HPG:  If you want to work with FASAnomics and deploy multiple Buccaneer LRPS' to a system, equip only one with the HPG and use the 50 tons saved for extra cargo.  The ships should be able to communicate in-system without FTL communication.

[Daryk]

Just go with Black Boxes... they're MUCH cheaper.

[BATTLEMASTER]

If black boxes are an option at all then forget about the mobile HPG  ;D  Could go toward extra FA armor or cargo, or even some marines and prisoner storage!

[Daryk]

Also, the DropShip multipliers are the worst there are.  They're the last place you want to install something REALLY expensive.

[DOC_Agren]

I do like the idea of converting/build Dropships as Armed Gunships supported by Assault Dropships while spinning up the building jumpcore Light Gunships.

This is going to need a large numbers of deployments, dropships crews are available and trained

[BATTLEMASTER]

I revised my proposal.  I changed the armor to standard Ferro-Aluminum, removed the HPG, added an AMS bay to each arc and the rest of the mass went to cargo.

I could've beefed up the SI a point and added more armor, but I wanted this to be a more off-the-shelf conversion than get involved with reinforcing the existing dropship's structure.

[Daryk]

That's a far more reasonable cost.  :thumbsup:

[Daryk]

Speaking of reasonable cost, I'm working up a Leopard CV variant for Quarantine duty.  Bowie should be able to crank them out pretty quickly (yes, I did the production research first).  Stats to follow!

[BATTLEMASTER]

Heavy FA is available in the 3050s? ???

To follow up on that, I posted an issue to the MML tracker to check the date, and here was the response I received:

Per IntOps it’s introduced in 3056 +/- 5 years as experimental if using variable tech option.
If not it’s considered Standard tech with the same intro years.
For maximum granular detail we recommend using Variable Tech level to see the progression. But this does fit better for RPG campaign style play.

[Daryk]

Huh... I never realized it was that early.

Any way... take a Leopard CV.  Rip out the ASF bays, PPCs, LRM-20s and one Medium Laser.  Replace the Large Lasers with ERs, and add one more for good measure (in place of the PPCs), along with 4 extra heat sinks over the 80 the ship normally gets.  In place of the two starboard forward ASF bays, install a White Shark Launcher and four reloads (pointed forward).  In place of the two port forward ASF bays, install a Small Craft Bay.  The two aft ASF bays become extra (actual) quarters for: the Small Craft crew (who leave their 5 bay racks empty for rescuees), a platoon of Marines (who also leave their bay racks empty), a Medical Team (and an isolated MASH unit separate from the ship's sick bay), and the necessary extra Life Boats.  The fourth (now extraneous) gunner becomes a Communications Tech, to go with the extra ton of comms gear (fluffed to include a Black Box).  All for just under 170M C-Bills.

Code: [Select]

Quarantine Leopard Aerodyne
Tonnage 1,720
Thrust    447.2 4/6 Thrust
Heat Sinks     84 21 Free Heat Sinks
Fuel    137.0 74.45652174 Burn Days
Pumps      2.7
SI     31.5   7
Armor     30.0 480 points 135/125/125/95
Controls     12.9
Base Crew     35   7 5 Personnel
Gunners     21   7 3 Personnel
Officer Upgrades      6   3 2 Officers
Escape Pods/Life Boats     49   7 7
Small Craft Bay    200 200 1 5 Bay Racks
Infantry Bays      5   5 1 30 Bay Racks
White Shark Launcher    120 120 1 1 15 (Forward)
White Shark Ammunition    160 40 4
ER Large Lasers     30   5 6 12 72 (1 Forward/Aft, 2 each Wing)
Medium Lasers      6   1 6 3 18 (1 Forward/Aft, 2 each Wing)
MASH Core Unit      3.5   3.5 1 5 Personnel
Communications Equipment      1   1 1 1 Personnel
Consumables     25   0.25 100 Crew-Days
Quarters for Extra Crew    207   5 41 (Crew Quarters for the Comm Tech, Steerage for the rest)
Cargo    106.2
Costs:

Code: [Select]

Bridge   217,200
Computer   200,000
Life Support   245,000 (Can support 49 passengers indefinitely, has 35 extra racks in the short term)
Sensors    80,000
Fire Control Computer   100,000
Gunnery Arcs    40,000 4 F/RW/LW/Aft
SI   700,000
Attitude Thruster    25,000
Landing Gear    17,200
Docking Collar    10,000
Drive Unit    34,400
Engine   447,200
Fuel Tanks    27,400
Armor   300,000
Heat Sinks   210,000
Officer Quarters    60,000 2
Crew Quarters   105,000    7
Steerage Quarters   200,000 40
Small Craft Bay        20,000 1
Infantry Bays        15,000 1
Bay Doors     4,000 4: 1 SC, 2 Cargo, 1 Infantry
White Shark Launcher   130,000 1
ER Large Lasers 1,200,000 6
Medium Lasers   240,000 6
MASH Core Unit    35,000 1
Escape Pods    35,000 7
Communications Equipment    10,000 1
Subtotal 4,637,400
Multiplier        36
Total       166,946,400
Crew:

Code: [Select]

CO
XO
3 Crew
3 Gunners
1 Communications Tech

5 Medical Team
5 Small Craft Crew
30 Marines

[BATTLEMASTER]

I like that.  It really makes my design look more like an assault ship than anything.  Hmmm they can be deployed together with the Buccaneers beating up targets then the Leopard CVs taking prisoners!

One of the things I like about the Leopard more than the Buccaneer is that it's a smaller ship.  Although because it's a smaller ship it has less room for guns :D

[Daryk]

And the option for a smaller crew at risk (by leaving the Marines at home; you probably want to keep the Medical Team).

Bowie builds Leopard CVs on Alarion, so it's relatively close, and I tried to minimize the structural changes.

[Daryk]

I'm working on a Small Craft for the Quarantine Line, but am torn between the K-1 and KR-61 as base models.  Only the K-1 has production information, but the KR-61 is cheaper (which also means it can carry less).  Any preference Cannonshop? ???

[Cannonshop]

I'm working on a Small Craft for the Quarantine Line, but am torn between the K-1 and KR-61 as base models.  Only the K-1 has production information, but the KR-61 is cheaper (which also means it can carry less).  Any preference Cannonshop? ???

(checks timeframe) well, Which has a broader, older network of spares?  deep aftermarket has a value here as well-because a deep aftermarket means it's easier to get spare parts and they're likely to be cheaper.

[Daryk]

That's what I'm not sure of... Sarna only has production information for the K-1 (at Shipil on Skye, among others), where the KR-61 article only asserts "the KR-61 Long-Range Shuttlecraft is the most common aerodyne based long-range shuttle model in human space" with ZERO cited factories.  ???

[Cannonshop]

That's what I'm not sure of... Sarna only has production information for the K-1 (at Shipil on Skye, among others), where the KR-61 article only asserts "the KR-61 Long-Range Shuttlecraft is the most common aerodyne based long-range shuttle model in human space" with ZERO cited factories.  ???

I'd suggest the KR-61 is probably built so many places that it's no longer an 'exclusive' design even within any of the Great Houses, so commonality and distribution suggests a situation like the SB-27 Saber, that is, a platform built so many places because it's that long out of license and that useful.

To give an example: did you know you can build an entire Harley, and never use a single part made by, or under contract to, Harley-Davidson?  That's "Deep Aftermarket".  A parent design is so common and has been built for so long that you can build a copy out of aftermarket parts.

[Daryk]

KR-61 it is!  Stats to follow in a bit, good sir!  :thumbsup:

[Daryk]

Here's a hasty conversion of the KR-61. Unfortunately, the math just doesn't add up between the 3057 stats and the current Tech Manual rules for construction, but basically, an infantry bay is stuffed into the shuttle's cargo bay along with improved life support and a set of Paramedic equipment.  While it could technially fit a full up MASH installation, there's not enough room for proper quarters for the medical team.  I also added a half ton of armor for threshold purposes.  Life Support is costed for 34 PAX.

Code: [Select]

KR-61Q Tons Cost
Tonnage 100
Controls   0.75   561,000
Crew Quarters 15    15,000 3 PAX (Steerage)
Life Support   0   170,000
Sensors   0    80,000
5 SI   2.5   250,000
Attitude Thrusters   0    25,000
Landing Gear   0     1,000
4 26    26,667 Engine 4/6
Fuel Tanks 35     7,000
Fuel Pumps   0.7         0 168
Armor 10.5   105,000 168 pts Nose 45
Paramedic Gear   0.25     7,500 1 PAX  Wings 41
Infantry Bay   5    15,000 30 PAX Aft 41
Cargo   4.3 Consumables
Subtotal   100 1,263,167
Total 3,789,500

[glitterboy2098]

i like the idea of using common dropship classes as the base, but i think that some of the refits you guys are calling for are a bit.. pie-in-the-sky. reskinning with new armor, reworking cooling/power systems.. they make great weapons platforms but that is a lot of time and resources being used.

so i went with as bare bones a model as i could think of. the platform is the Dirt common (especially in the periphery edge) Trojan blockade runner. which also means the Danais cargo ship, since those can be quickly refit to Trojan's.

using pre-fab modules, 4 bays for fighters, 2 additional crew quarters, and a whiteshark launcher and 10 round magazine are added. the whiteshark allows for long range antishipping strikes to stop a running enemy, and they can fitted with nukes so you can be sure they stop. the LRMs and lasers remain for up close use.

you don't really need marines because you won't be boarding anyone, and you don't really need a lot of heavy weapons because your opponents will mostly be in cargo and passenger dropships and standard jumpships, lacking capital weaponry. no one in the quarantine zone will have warships and the number of assault dropships is likely to be low. (and that's why those missiles are nukes)

the downside is limited cargo tonnage for supplies and parts, but since these would be operating as part of flotillas, there should be stock cargoships like Mules attached to haul the food, fuel, ammo, and spare parts for the whole group.

Code: [Select]

Ilus (Blockade Enforcer)
Type: Civilian Spheriod
Mass: 3,200 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3055
Mass: 3,200
Battle Value: 3,638
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-E-D
Cost: 156,184,000 C-bills

Fuel: 250 tons (7,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Heat Sinks: 84
Structural Integrity: 7

Armor
    Nose: 105
    Sides: 105/105
    Aft: 81

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (2)         1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (4)             1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (403.0 tons)      2 Doors   

Ammunition:
    10 rounds of White Shark ammunition (40 tons),
    90 rounds of LRM 20 ammunition (15 tons)

Escape Pods: 4
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  2 officers, 2 enlisted/non-rated, 8 gunners, 18 bay personnel, 6 passengers

Notes: Mounts 23 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:                                      Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (33 Heat)
2 LRM 20                                  12   2(24)   2(24)   2(24)    0(0)  LRM         
    LRM 20 Ammo (30 shots)
2 Medium Laser                             6   1(10)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
1 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)  15   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)  Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (10 shots)
RS/LS Fwd (26 Heat)
2 LRM 20                                  12   2(24)   2(24)   2(24)    0(0)  LRM         
    LRM 20 Ammo (30 shots)
2 Medium Laser                            14   2(18)    1(8)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
    1 Large Laser
RS/LS Aft (6 Heat)
2 Medium Laser                             6   1(10)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
Aft (6 Heat)
2 Medium Laser                             6   1(10)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       


fighters are likely to be doing most of the intercepts so pocket carriers are going to be more useful than assault ships, IMO. though in this case, the smallish size limited what i could fit, so i had to settle for a 4 plane airgroup instead of a full squadron.

[Daryk]

At only 3/5, I'm not sure it will be able to catch blockade runners.

[Cannonshop]

Okay guys, Now I need an illegal design

I need a dropship that can (only) land on water or similar surfaces.  That's right, it's illegal because it's an amphib, a "Flying fish", designed to land, and take off, from rivers and large bodies of water.

it needs to haul a mix of the following:

1. 12 hydrofoil 'swift boat's' in the mid-to-upper range of weight for a combat vehicle.
2. 14 Helicopters (VTOL craft) with support infrastructure to maintain them
3. 12 platoons of infantry and 16 battlesuits.
4. Plus support personnel and it needs to hold a laboratory, plus cargo and possibly construction materials and equipment.

Oh, and it should probably be armed appropriately for a military dropship that mainly serves as a transport...but it only needs to be fast enough to make orbit under it's own power and only needs enough fuel to serve AS a transport.

This is to be a Native Kowloonese design with some variation possible for moving larger, or smaller loads.

[Death_from_above]

IMHO, the Triumph looks somewhat boaty/floaty :

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Triumph.png

And according to Sarna :

The large and easily accessible cargo bays were also highly adaptable, with many Triumphs
modified to carry aerospace fighters, BattleMechs and even surface naval craft.

Just my 5 C-Bills though, I'll leave the designing/speccing to the experts..

[Daryk]

It looks like Triumphs are only available from Terra or Luthien (the other two factories are in Capellan hands), but a retrofit or license appears ideal.  Thanks for the idea!  :thumbsup:

Now to work out exactly what its tonnage is (3057 says 5,600 while Sarna says 8,600 citing 3057R).  I'll see what fits at 5,600 before adding another 3,000 tons...  8)

[Daryk]

Ok, definitely has to be 8,600 tons.  Quarters for all those people gets heavy!

Cannonshop, I can fit a Small Craft Bay, but it cuts the cargo down to 76 tons (from 303).  The advantage, of course, is that you can get stuff to orbit without having to lift the entire ship.  Since it only has a helipad, the Small Craft needs to be VTOL capable.  An alternative would be an amphiphious Small Craft...  ^-^

Engine, SI, Armor and fuel load are all standard for a Triumph.  I kept the same number of weapons (18), but switched them to ER Large Lasers (10) and Small Lasers (8).

I figure the lower cargo bay is for the naval vessels (six each side), while the upper bay is given over to the Helipad, VTOL (Light Vehicle) cubicles, and possible Small Craft Bay.

I installed two seperate MASH Core Units to account for one being infected.  This also boosts the medical team to 10.

12 Infantry Bays and 4 BA Bays round out the 531 bay racks (with the Small Craft Bay).  That works out to 59 nine-man bunk rooms (for ease of quarantining personnel).  All bay personnel are also provided Steerage Quarters.

100 crew days of consumables works out to 276 tons.

As mentioned above, cargo is either 76 tons, or 303 without a Small Craft Bay.

Let me know which you'd prefer, and I'll post the detailed stats.  Cost is on the order of 476M.

[Daryk]

I apparently mistyped some of the personnel numbers.  It's actually 565 bay personnel (with a Small Craft Bay), not 531.  I dropped down to 12 weapons (from 18), so the Front/Wings/Aft each just have one ER Large Laser and a pair of Small Lasers for Point Defense.  The 3rd gunner on a regular Triumph becomes an RTO.  Cargo capacity becomes 41 with a Small Craft, 269 without.  That's aside from the 100 crew-days of consumables (for 287 tons).

Hopefully all he carried vehicles are fusion (or at least hydrogen) powered, as the ship can crack water all day.

[glitterboy2098]

Is kowloon up to building standard dropships, or should we be using primitive hulls with kfbooms to reflect the limits of kowloonese ship building?

And I'm not so sure it really qualifies for the illegal tag, since landing in water is something dropships have done in the lore before.