Author Topic: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058  (Read 6259 times)

Weirdo

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #60 on: 30 August 2023, 13:58:51 »
Superheavies are not shipped as cargo on the Duat.

They are. The TRO stats and record sheet are both very clear that it has six dedicated cargo bays devoted to carrying a superheavy in each bay. Also, superheavy mech cubicles do not exist.

You might be thrown off because the Duat also has space for six standard mechs, those in regular cubicles.
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truetanker

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #61 on: 30 August 2023, 14:29:11 »
Most likely the regular mechbays are for the drones.

TT
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Colt Ward

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #62 on: 30 August 2023, 14:31:10 »
They are. The TRO stats and record sheet are both very clear that it has six dedicated cargo bays devoted to carrying a superheavy in each bay. Also, superheavy mech cubicles do not exist.

You might be thrown off because the Duat also has space for six standard mechs, those in regular cubicles.

Because they did not make superheavy bays- those 6 places are, they can go into combat off the DS from those bays by fiction IIRC.  It is one of the MWDA fixes.
Colt Ward
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Weirdo

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #63 on: 30 August 2023, 14:46:43 »
Fiction can say what it wants. Rules-wise, they're cargo.
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"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
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truetanker

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #64 on: 30 August 2023, 14:59:45 »
And 220 tons of cargo each says it could and can be anything.

And I'm pretty sure Catalyst doesn't want to retcon more items than needed. Speaking of Superheavies, hane you noticed that regular mechbays have two cots for the pilot and astech.

SH needs pilots + astech(s), Tripods need three plus their astechs.

Duat also has BA and PBI bays, so.. the real question is how many astechs are needed for a single SH?

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
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Colt Ward

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #65 on: 14 September 2023, 15:22:36 »
Fiction can say what it wants. Rules-wise, they're cargo.

And rules wise, battle armor and infantry can go into vehicles with/as cargo and no penalty.  Pretty sure this was asked to TPTB about before (cannot find it) but the specific reference is Rock of the Republic, Chapter 9 pg 83.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

truetanker

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #66 on: 14 September 2023, 15:36:06 »
Infantry, Armored or not, is no problem, anything else is considered cargo.statis, which requires cargo transfer rules.

Bays vs. Compartments

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
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Weirdo

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #67 on: 17 September 2023, 16:51:48 »
And rules wise, battle armor and infantry can go into vehicles with/as cargo and no penalty.  Pretty sure this was asked to TPTB about before (cannot find it) but the specific reference is Rock of the Republic, Chapter 9 pg 83.

I'm deeply, DEEPLY confused as to what infantry have to do with the realities of moving superheavy mechs from one world to another. Could someone please explain what this apple has to do with the oranges we're discussing?
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

truetanker

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #68 on: 17 September 2023, 17:05:14 »
Thinking he means Infantry and BA can be used as cargo via the vehicular rules.

Where vehicles can be carried inside their cubicles while also carrying the cargo, Infantry.

It is a cheap way if bringing Infantry to the board without technically housing Infantry onboard Dropships themselves.

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Weirdo

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #69 on: 17 September 2023, 17:23:22 »
....yes? But weren't we talking about superheavy tripods?
My wife writes books
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"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
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truetanker

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #70 on: 17 September 2023, 17:54:28 »
Yes.

I just want to understand where the pilots and astechs go when they are transferring / transporting SH Tripods.

Bay Cubicles have room, SH don't have cradles, so where do they house them? Not stated...

Given a 5 ton Foot Bay contains enough for a Platoon, I guess that's all that is needed? Leaving 15 or so tons as general cargo?

TT

(Fixed typos)
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Weirdo

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #71 on: 17 September 2023, 19:06:41 »
I keep forgetting people care about that, sorry.

There's plenty of room on the Duat for a couple dozen or so extra personnel in the regular cargo(don't forget that StratOps has rules for that), there's the infantry bays if you're not using them for actual troops, you've got plenty of options. Use whatever you want!
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Daryk

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #72 on: 18 September 2023, 00:42:17 »
You REALLY don't want to put infantry in a ship as actual cargo... the consumables go WAY up.  Infantry Bays at least, really.

truetanker

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #73 on: 18 September 2023, 02:35:33 »
Which is why, while not an absolute rule, is essential.

The Duat is known fact to have six 220t cargo bays.

Now a 200t Superheavy, Bipod, Tripod and even a Quad can fit in it.

But what's not know is where the units Pilots and astechs are housed.

Normally, a battle unit's crew and techs are billited in with their respective rides.

Superheavies aren't. Anything over 100t somehow are billited elsewhere.

Quickest is a 5t Infantry Foot bay... Would allow for safe travels, the remaining 15t is unknown, possibly storage of tools or a motorized Lift Hoist machine?
TT
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Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Weirdo

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #74 on: 18 September 2023, 10:43:55 »
Large numbers of infantry as cargo is inadvisable, yes. But we're not talking about infantry. We're talking about 4-5 people per mech. That's 1 ton per mech per day. And since an Ares weighs 135 tons, that 220-ton bay can theoretically house the mech and crew for 12 weeks. Since 4-5 weeks is a much more reasonable load(one week out, one week in, a few extra weeks for recharge time and shit happening), that's a total of 171 tons for the mech, the crew and techs, and five weeks of food/water. That leaves 49 tons for pods and other spare parts. And that's in their dedicated cargo bays. The Duat still has almost 700 tons of space in the main cargo bay, more than enough for the smash raids it's described as being used for. And if you're running one in a more standard deployment, then the fleet carrying the rest of your troops is already expected to have a complement of supply ships like Mules or Mammoths.
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"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
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Daryk

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #75 on: 18 September 2023, 12:45:07 »
From StratOps AAR, page 143:
As pure cargo, 5 personnel use 1 ton of consumables per day.  Last I checked, they (and their gear) are 100kg each, for 0.5 ton.

In bay quarters, 5 personnel use 0.25 tons of consumables per day.  5 tons for a Foot Platoon Bay of 30 means they're 0.833 tons.

In "proper" quarters, 5 personnel use 0.025 tons of consumables per day.  At 5 tons (minimum) each, they're 25 tons.

The break even for "proper" quarters against Bays is about 90 days.  Bay quarters are better than camping in the cargo bay for even a single day.

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #76 on: 18 September 2023, 17:01:32 »
From StratOps AAR, page 143:
As pure cargo, 5 personnel use 1 ton of consumables per day.  Last I checked, they (and their gear) are 100kg each, for 0.5 ton.

In bay quarters, 5 personnel use 0.25 tons of consumables per day.  5 tons for a Foot Platoon Bay of 30 means they're 0.833 tons.

In "proper" quarters, 5 personnel use 0.025 tons of consumables per day.  At 5 tons (minimum) each, they're 25 tons.

The break even for "proper" quarters against Bays is about 90 days.  Bay quarters are better than camping in the cargo bay for even a single day.

Proper bays for Superheavies do not exist, which is why the point of them deploying immediately despite being 'cargo' is material.  The point of infantry being cargo and deploying immediately is that the rule is not absolute.
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Hellraiser

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #77 on: 18 September 2023, 17:40:21 »
Hmm,  Interesting that we are saying the SH bays don't exist.

1.  IIRC, The Duat fluff clearly mentions 2 versions.
The first created by CS was 1 big cargo bay, the 2nd was altered by the RotS to use less cargo because they added 6 SH bays.

2.  Also, why would they be 220 tons if the Ares SH Tripod is only 150 Tons?
It's pretty clear they were intended to be actual Bays for them at 50%ish more than the max mech, but at the time of RS creation they didn't have it as part of the design program.


As for crew quarters,
If it really comes down to it, you could just put the crews in the Infantry Platoon space & not have a single 1 off platoon of "marines/scouts" or whatever that 1 platoon is for.


PS.  I'm not saying SH Bays exist, I'm saying its clear to me at least that they intended for them to be there in the 2nd version.  Something to add to the game in the future.
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Daryk

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #78 on: 18 September 2023, 18:39:37 »
The reason to go with infantry bays for the techs is it seriously reduces the consumption of food/water/air.

truetanker

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Re: Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058
« Reply #79 on: 18 September 2023, 20:04:31 »
Officially, Dropships are 10 levels tall, a 20 story flying building that takes up a 3 hex circle, about 300 feet circumference.

All mechs are Level 2, about 40'.  Superheavies are 3 Levels, 60'.

This means 7 stories for everything else.

SH Bays are Cargo rated, so you'll be needing some type of structure not listed for Pilot/Astech living quarters onboard, somewhere.

Oh and before you ask, it's unofficially classified. TPTB reserves canon when they do.

TT
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Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016