Author Topic: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.  (Read 1980 times)

Iceweb

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Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« on: 21 September 2023, 20:55:05 »
Men its bad.  We are being forced back, but even worse the enemy is also.  Sensors show an unknown third party that jumped into the system and is screaming to the planet.  We have one last chance to blunt the enemy before they make planetfall and get some partial completion for the contract.  In fact we just got a HPG message that our employer is willing to give us one hundred percent battle damage compensation for this last push.  We won't be able to hold the field so leave nothing for the enemy to salvage afterwards...

The Cluster Challenge:  Inspired by mechs like the Piranha and the Kintaro that have lots of sandblasting guns.  What if the goal was to do as much damage to the other side instead of trying to worry about salvage. 

Make a force of 12k BV of mechs only to fight on a randomized map 

All Pilots will be standard pilots of the type based who designs the mech. 
Manufacturer      P/G 
Society               5/6
IS                        4/5
Clan                    3/4
MD                     2/3 

Note MD does not apply to ComStar or Word of Blake mechs in general, instead intended to apply mechs designed for insane cyborgs and I expect them to have a small cockpit and other design concepts for heavily cybered warriors, and the design to have gone extinct after the Jihad.  Any pilot with one of these rides should be appropriately cybered up and pay the associated BV costs. 

All mechs BV should be adjusted for the P/G skill level you don't get freebies here by stocking up on clan mechs. 

Scoring:
1 Victory point is scored for each point of armor stripped off an enemy mech. 
To avoid unarmored designs to deny the opposite force  chances to score points, if a location is completely stripped of armor it instead gives points equal to if that location was max armored with that location's armor type based on the mech tonnage.
3 VP for each point of internal structure destroyed.   
10 VP bonus given for any mech that has it's center torso cored out. 

Note if limb is blown off either from a crit or removing a side torso, there is salvage available and no points are scored removed armor or structure that was not actively destroyed.  However explosive components such as ammo that damage a mech do count for scoring the damage done, but not the damage vented by CASE. 

So make your lists and leave no salvage!
 
Please list the pilot P/G for the mech and we can all note if it doesn't seem to match what it is expected.

If we get enough lists that look good I will throw them into MegaMek and let them fight it out and report back who got the most victory points.  I intend to set them up as Princess VS Princess matches.  If you want to give your team different princess priorities please note that. 


Iceweb

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #1 on: 21 September 2023, 21:05:22 »
Post saved for holding a list of answers to any questions that come up. 

1: Thought for V2 of the challenge.  Every 4 mechs in an army gives one SPA to a mechwarrior.  Problem not all SPAs are equal.  The thought would be that each 4 mechs gives 20XP based on MM-HQ to use to buy SPAs but that seems to be a little fiddly and require people to know the MM-HQ costs which I don't know if they exactly match up with ATOW. 

Any thoughts on allowing some SPAs or additional quirks or the like?

truetanker

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #2 on: 21 September 2023, 23:05:08 »
I've, cheated...

PM sent

Truetanker
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Colt Ward

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #3 on: 22 September 2023, 08:38:24 »
Are you wanting your own stuff to get blown in the push so nothing is left for salvage?

Or are you trying to cause as much damage on the principle it takes more resources/time to fix a damaged machine than replace a totally destroyed one?
Colt Ward
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Daryk

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #4 on: 22 September 2023, 20:33:07 »
I'm seeing 11 JVN-11As with 197 left over... ;)

Iceweb

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #5 on: 23 September 2023, 01:34:29 »
Are you wanting your own stuff to get blown in the push so nothing is left for salvage?

Or are you trying to cause as much damage on the principle it takes more resources/time to fix a damaged machine than replace a totally destroyed one?

You get VPs for blasting armor and internal structure off enemy mechs, with a bonus for coring mechs.  In fact you don't even have to damage them.  If the enemy fails a piloting roll of their own design they lose pips and your side gets VPs.  Sure you didn't do it but you were told to wreck enemy material and it got wrecked, that brings you that much closer to fulfilling the employer's contract.   

And in the same the enemy gets victory points when your mechs lose pips.  So you want to prevent them from damaging you. 

Fluff wise for this any salvage will probably be taken by the third party you both hate.  So you don't want to leave stuff for them, but you are being paid to reduce the effectiveness of the OPFOR and not worrying about the third party right now.  You might not like them, but their are no CBills in fighting them now.  Similarly your employer wants you to hurt and reduce the enemy so much they are willing to fork over CBills equal to whatever it costs to repair and replace your mechs and ammo.  So you don't have to so much about the damage you take, though you don't want your mechs cored out, and you don't want to give the enemy the satisfaction of damaging your side, but its secondary to wrecking everything they have so they don't have it later.   

I hope that makes sense.

Iceweb

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #6 on: 23 September 2023, 01:57:46 »
I'm seeing 11 JVN-11As with 197 left over... ;)

I don't think anyone will argue with good old medium laser spam.  I want to see how effective this list will be against others that hopefully will be submitted.  Sure Javelins are mobile, but you only have a range of 9 so lists featuring LRMs or LBXs will have a decent amount of time to pick you apart while advancing.   

I also wonder if spamming Komodos would be better or worse.  Sure medium laser spam again, but with AMS to defend against missiles, and the Large laser variant to give each lance some long range support.  But not as fast to close.

If we were using the SPA rule that I was considering for version 2, 11 mechs would get you 3 SPAs or 60 XP in HQ to spend on SPAs.  Any idea what you would use those on for your list?

Daryk

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #7 on: 23 September 2023, 02:47:50 »
Jumping Jack all the way! :)

Daryk

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #8 on: 23 September 2023, 03:04:11 »
Looking at the Komodo, you'd get six of them at best (3 of each flavor you suggest).  That would get you 45 Medium Lasers and 3 ER Large Lasers.  Sure, they have AMS, but they also have XL engines.  My money is on the Fire Javelins.

GRUD

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #9 on: 23 September 2023, 10:28:50 »
Get some Missile Boats, then load up on Thunder FASCAM ammo, using Vibromines set for 20 tons!  :evil:


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Daryk

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #10 on: 23 September 2023, 11:44:30 »
Heh... I think LAMs are the only solution to that one! ;D

truetanker

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #11 on: 23 September 2023, 12:42:26 »
I'm seeing 11 JVN-11As with 197 left over... ;)

I see your Javelins and triple it, w/ 180 left.

30 WSP-3M

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Daryk

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #12 on: 23 September 2023, 12:53:09 »
I'm thinking the 77 Medium Lasers will beat the 30 Medium Pulses and 30 SRM-2s... ;)

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #13 on: 23 September 2023, 13:04:59 »

Protomechs probably don’t count, and I’m not bothering to adjust for P/G but…

Nothing but Siren protomechs (the original).  That’s 140 units moving at 10/15 spitting out 280 damage points per turn.
« Last Edit: 23 September 2023, 13:09:17 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Daryk

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #14 on: 23 September 2023, 13:09:01 »
Or I suppose the 2 version for 560 points of damage... ;)

truetanker

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #15 on: 23 September 2023, 13:25:17 »
I'm thinking the 77 Medium Lasers will beat the 30 Medium Pulses and 30 SRM-2s... ;)

Not if I'm backing Infernos, unless your counting that bv.

Or I could run 11 Wendall Scorpions... LL+ run 6/9 w/10 SHS... All day.

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Daryk

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #16 on: 23 September 2023, 13:27:45 »
The 11A has DHS, so Infernos aren't too much of a worry.  The Scorpions would depend on the terrain... ;)

truetanker

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #17 on: 23 September 2023, 13:36:05 »
(Watches GRUD set the terrain on fire)

* Whistling randomly *  :laugh:

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

truetanker

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #18 on: 23 September 2023, 13:44:31 »
 :evil:

I'm changing my official unit to just four mechs.

Ares Apollon.

4 iHGR, 4 RAC5, 8 ERM, 12 ERS, 10 LRM-5, 12 SRM-2 and 24 A-Pods...

I think I can do some damage?

TT
« Last Edit: 23 September 2023, 13:46:25 by truetanker »
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Daryk

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #19 on: 23 September 2023, 13:57:09 »
Certainly... especially if it's an open plain... ;)

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #20 on: 23 September 2023, 15:47:14 »
I take it canon mechs only?

Daryk

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #21 on: 23 September 2023, 15:50:45 »
In this sub-forum at least, yes.

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #22 on: 23 September 2023, 18:27:45 »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Daryk

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #23 on: 23 September 2023, 19:11:00 »
I remember that thread... ;D

truetanker

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #24 on: 23 September 2023, 19:17:00 »
Good times...

I wanted to know why only 5 Hadur when 10 is a Star, two per Point.

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #25 on: 23 September 2023, 20:40:46 »
Good times...

I wanted to know why only 5 Hadur when 10 is a Star, two per Point.

TT

The BV limit of 12500 in the OP.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

truetanker

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #26 on: 23 September 2023, 22:15:18 »
Ah... Thought different.

Still a nice unit. Could you have made a Star with several Hadur and multiple Proto?

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #27 on: 23 September 2023, 23:06:43 »
Ah... Thought different.

Still a nice unit. Could you have made a Star with several Hadur and multiple Proto?

TT

Sure, use the precedent of mixed command stars to do a star with 2-3 point of Hadurs and 2-3 points of Satyrs.  But while the Hadurs can double up in their points and still keep 4-5 Hadurs in the mixed star, the Satyrs can’t and their numbers get halved (or almost so).  So if you want to field 5 Hadurs and 5 Satyr points, it technically has to be two stars (with the Hadur star arguably understrength).  Of course, doesn’t really matter in a game.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Iceweb

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #28 on: 24 September 2023, 02:26:57 »
I take it canon mechs only?

Sadly canon only cause of the subforum and also fairness. 

If there is interest I'm happy to open up the challenge in the custom mechs section and people can go crazy

Iceweb

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Re: Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.
« Reply #29 on: 24 September 2023, 02:31:53 »
Looking at the Komodo, you'd get six of them at best (3 of each flavor you suggest).  That would get you 45 Medium Lasers and 3 ER Large Lasers.  Sure, they have AMS, but they also have XL engines.  My money is on the Fire Javelins.

I actually chose the Komodo in part due to the XL engine.  Remember if you core a mech thats ten extra VPs awarded.  If you chew off a side torso and cause my XL engine to shut down, well its a mission kill, but you didn't core me and you don't get the bonus, along with all the armor and IS in the center that you don't damage and don't score points on. 

Do the Javelins swarm have a better chance of holding the field and being the last one standing sure.  But at the end we care about victory points.