Leave Nothing Behind! The Cluster Challenge.

[Iceweb]

Men its bad.  We are being forced back, but even worse the enemy is also.  Sensors show an unknown third party that jumped into the system and is screaming to the planet.  We have one last chance to blunt the enemy before they make planetfall and get some partial completion for the contract.  In fact we just got a HPG message that our employer is willing to give us one hundred percent battle damage compensation for this last push.  We won't be able to hold the field so leave nothing for the enemy to salvage afterwards...

The Cluster Challenge:  Inspired by mechs like the Piranha and the Kintaro that have lots of sandblasting guns.  What if the goal was to do as much damage to the other side instead of trying to worry about salvage. 

Make a force of 12k BV of mechs only to fight on a randomized map 

All Pilots will be standard pilots of the type based who designs the mech. 
Manufacturer      P/G 
Society               5/6
IS                        4/5
Clan                    3/4
MD                     2/3 

Note MD does not apply to ComStar or Word of Blake mechs in general, instead intended to apply mechs designed for insane cyborgs and I expect them to have a small cockpit and other design concepts for heavily cybered warriors, and the design to have gone extinct after the Jihad.  Any pilot with one of these rides should be appropriately cybered up and pay the associated BV costs. 

All mechs BV should be adjusted for the P/G skill level you don't get freebies here by stocking up on clan mechs. 

Scoring:
1 Victory point is scored for each point of armor stripped off an enemy mech. 
To avoid unarmored designs to deny the opposite force  chances to score points, if a location is completely stripped of armor it instead gives points equal to if that location was max armored with that location's armor type based on the mech tonnage.
3 VP for each point of internal structure destroyed.   
10 VP bonus given for any mech that has it's center torso cored out. 

Note if limb is blown off either from a crit or removing a side torso, there is salvage available and no points are scored removed armor or structure that was not actively destroyed.  However explosive components such as ammo that damage a mech do count for scoring the damage done, but not the damage vented by CASE. 

So make your lists and leave no salvage!
 
Please list the pilot P/G for the mech and we can all note if it doesn't seem to match what it is expected.

If we get enough lists that look good I will throw them into MegaMek and let them fight it out and report back who got the most victory points.  I intend to set them up as Princess VS Princess matches.  If you want to give your team different princess priorities please note that. 

[Iceweb]

Post saved for holding a list of answers to any questions that come up. 

1: Thought for V2 of the challenge.  Every 4 mechs in an army gives one SPA to a mechwarrior.  Problem not all SPAs are equal.  The thought would be that each 4 mechs gives 20XP based on MM-HQ to use to buy SPAs but that seems to be a little fiddly and require people to know the MM-HQ costs which I don't know if they exactly match up with ATOW. 

Any thoughts on allowing some SPAs or additional quirks or the like?

[truetanker]

I've, cheated...

PM sent

Truetanker

[Colt Ward]

Are you wanting your own stuff to get blown in the push so nothing is left for salvage?

Or are you trying to cause as much damage on the principle it takes more resources/time to fix a damaged machine than replace a totally destroyed one?

[Daryk]

I'm seeing 11 JVN-11As with 197 left over... ;)

[Iceweb]

Are you wanting your own stuff to get blown in the push so nothing is left for salvage?

Or are you trying to cause as much damage on the principle it takes more resources/time to fix a damaged machine than replace a totally destroyed one?

You get VPs for blasting armor and internal structure off enemy mechs, with a bonus for coring mechs.  In fact you don't even have to damage them.  If the enemy fails a piloting roll of their own design they lose pips and your side gets VPs.  Sure you didn't do it but you were told to wreck enemy material and it got wrecked, that brings you that much closer to fulfilling the employer's contract.   

And in the same the enemy gets victory points when your mechs lose pips.  So you want to prevent them from damaging you. 

Fluff wise for this any salvage will probably be taken by the third party you both hate.  So you don't want to leave stuff for them, but you are being paid to reduce the effectiveness of the OPFOR and not worrying about the third party right now.  You might not like them, but their are no CBills in fighting them now.  Similarly your employer wants you to hurt and reduce the enemy so much they are willing to fork over CBills equal to whatever it costs to repair and replace your mechs and ammo.  So you don't have to so much about the damage you take, though you don't want your mechs cored out, and you don't want to give the enemy the satisfaction of damaging your side, but its secondary to wrecking everything they have so they don't have it later.   

I hope that makes sense.

[Iceweb]

I'm seeing 11 JVN-11As with 197 left over... ;)

I don't think anyone will argue with good old medium laser spam.  I want to see how effective this list will be against others that hopefully will be submitted.  Sure Javelins are mobile, but you only have a range of 9 so lists featuring LRMs or LBXs will have a decent amount of time to pick you apart while advancing.   

I also wonder if spamming Komodos would be better or worse.  Sure medium laser spam again, but with AMS to defend against missiles, and the Large laser variant to give each lance some long range support.  But not as fast to close.

If we were using the SPA rule that I was considering for version 2, 11 mechs would get you 3 SPAs or 60 XP in HQ to spend on SPAs.  Any idea what you would use those on for your list?

[Daryk]

Jumping Jack all the way! :)

[Daryk]

Looking at the Komodo, you'd get six of them at best (3 of each flavor you suggest).  That would get you 45 Medium Lasers and 3 ER Large Lasers.  Sure, they have AMS, but they also have XL engines.  My money is on the Fire Javelins.

[GRUD]

Get some Missile Boats, then load up on Thunder FASCAM ammo, using Vibromines set for 20 tons! 


Cue "Yakety Sax", sit back, and enjoy the show! 

[Daryk]

Heh... I think LAMs are the only solution to that one! ;D

[truetanker]

I'm seeing 11 JVN-11As with 197 left over... ;)

I see your Javelins and triple it, w/ 180 left.

30 WSP-3M

TT

[Daryk]

I'm thinking the 77 Medium Lasers will beat the 30 Medium Pulses and 30 SRM-2s... ;)

[Natasha Kerensky]

Protomechs probably don’t count, and I’m not bothering to adjust for P/G but…

Nothing but Siren protomechs (the original).  That’s 140 units moving at 10/15 spitting out 280 damage points per turn.

[Daryk]

Or I suppose the 2 version for 560 points of damage... ;)

[truetanker]

I'm thinking the 77 Medium Lasers will beat the 30 Medium Pulses and 30 SRM-2s... ;)

Not if I'm backing Infernos, unless your counting that bv.

Or I could run 11 Wendall Scorpions... LL+ run 6/9 w/10 SHS... All day.

TT

[Daryk]

The 11A has DHS, so Infernos aren't too much of a worry.  The Scorpions would depend on the terrain... ;)

[truetanker]

(Watches GRUD set the terrain on fire)

* Whistling randomly * 

TT

[truetanker]

 

I'm changing my official unit to just four mechs.

Ares Apollon.

4 iHGR, 4 RAC5, 8 ERM, 12 ERS, 10 LRM-5, 12 SRM-2 and 24 A-Pods...

I think I can do some damage?

TT

[Daryk]

Certainly... especially if it's an open plain... ;)

[Tyler Jorgensson]

I take it canon mechs only?

[Daryk]

In this sub-forum at least, yes.

[Natasha Kerensky]

This post and thread may also be useful:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,81536.msg1939023.html#msg1939023

[Daryk]

I remember that thread... ;D

[truetanker]

Good times...

I wanted to know why only 5 Hadur when 10 is a Star, two per Point.

TT

[Natasha Kerensky]

Good times...

I wanted to know why only 5 Hadur when 10 is a Star, two per Point.

TT

The BV limit of 12500 in the OP.

[truetanker]

Ah... Thought different.

Still a nice unit. Could you have made a Star with several Hadur and multiple Proto?

TT

[Natasha Kerensky]

Ah... Thought different.

Still a nice unit. Could you have made a Star with several Hadur and multiple Proto?

TT

Sure, use the precedent of mixed command stars to do a star with 2-3 point of Hadurs and 2-3 points of Satyrs.  But while the Hadurs can double up in their points and still keep 4-5 Hadurs in the mixed star, the Satyrs can’t and their numbers get halved (or almost so).  So if you want to field 5 Hadurs and 5 Satyr points, it technically has to be two stars (with the Hadur star arguably understrength).  Of course, doesn’t really matter in a game.

[Iceweb]

I take it canon mechs only?

Sadly canon only cause of the subforum and also fairness. 

If there is interest I'm happy to open up the challenge in the custom mechs section and people can go crazy

[Iceweb]

Looking at the Komodo, you'd get six of them at best (3 of each flavor you suggest).  That would get you 45 Medium Lasers and 3 ER Large Lasers.  Sure, they have AMS, but they also have XL engines.  My money is on the Fire Javelins.

I actually chose the Komodo in part due to the XL engine.  Remember if you core a mech thats ten extra VPs awarded.  If you chew off a side torso and cause my XL engine to shut down, well its a mission kill, but you didn't core me and you don't get the bonus, along with all the armor and IS in the center that you don't damage and don't score points on. 

Do the Javelins swarm have a better chance of holding the field and being the last one standing sure.  But at the end we care about victory points.

[Daryk]

What stops us from shooting at "killed" 'mechs to core them out?  Given the victory conditions, I'd think that would be an option.

[Iceweb]

Because due to the rule book when a mech is marked destroyed it is removed from the board and can no longer be damaged or targeted.  Also I'm intending to run the lists through MegaMek which does not allow any house rule to target destroyed mechs. 

In short I'm abusing the destroyed mechs go away rule to add the challenge part to the so called challenge.  You have to think around it.

[Daryk]

Rog, thanks for the clarification!  That would seem to tip the balance to all XL (or XXL) all the way...

[Iceweb]

Maybe, not sure.  The fragility is offset that if you get knocked out by your engine, you aren't doing any damage so like all things balance is required.  But that would be part of the challenge.  What mechs/weapons do you want to bring to deal with both Zombies and Glass Cannons to do the most damage to them before you core them.  And you don't know if the list you will be fighting this time will lean to one side or the other or be in the middle. 

[Charistoph]

Keeping it to just a Star....

3 Arctic Wolf Standards, each with 1 NARC, 6 SRM-6s, and 2 SRM-4s.
1 Warhawk C, for punching holes for the SRMS to do their work.
1 Warhawk D, for a similar role, but an ATM-9 for the close ranged FU.

For Inner Sphere, I'm going with a Long Tom Company with 10 Long Toms with a Support and Ammo Carriage each and a pair of J. Edgar Hover Craft for Spotting.

[Daryk]

If vehicles are in, a Savannah Master swarm is the way to go.  The odds of merely disabling one of those things is miniscule.

[JoeJones]

My thought involves 8 LGB-13C Longbows and one FS9-P Firestarter.

LRM spam at range, and a ton of SRMs up close.

Note: Edited to correct a configuration that went over points, because math is hard.

[truetanker]

because math is hard.

Says the Capellan associate who helps in carrying the annual ten thousand pound nail through the streets of Capella on Carry the Sacrificial Nail Day.

House Liao OG had a picture of the said nail being carried through the streets as a trophy for their yearly metal requirements.

TT

[Daryk]

10,000 kgs, that is! ;D

[truetanker]

Couldn't remember the weight, but yes...

TT

[Iceweb]

Keeping it to just a Star....

3 Arctic Wolf Standards, each with 1 NARC, 6 SRM-6s, and 2 SRM-4s.
1 Warhawk C, for punching holes for the SRMS to do their work.
1 Warhawk D, for a similar role, but an ATM-9 for the close ranged FU.

For Inner Sphere, I'm going with a Long Tom Company with 10 Long Toms with a Support and Ammo Carriage each and a pair of J. Edgar Hover Craft for Spotting.

Lots of missiles and warhalks are always impressive. 
What missile load outs are you bringing?  I'm assuming mostly Narc ammo,  Shame the ATM series doesn't have narc capability.  I feel like maybe all ATM rounds should count as Narc homing for the indirect fire or in a weird edge case of the narc pod offering a better bonus. 

Just checking did you adjust the BV for the standard clan pilots being 3/4

And no vehicles sorry cannon mechs only.  I don't need all the lists being weird vehicle swarms, with one submission being ASF flying out of range of the medium laser spam.  I think we have touched on all the ways letting anything but mechs in right now would turn the challenge on its head. 

[Iceweb]

My thought involves 8 LGB-13C Longbows and one FS9-P Firestarter.

LRM spam at range, and a ton of SRMs up close.

Note: Edited to correct a configuration that went over points, because math is hard.

An interesting list, gotta love those missiles.  I do wonder if throwing some 12C or 14C into the main line might be helpful, but its hard to say. 

BTW what missile load outs are you bringing?   

Speaking of load outs it would be tempting to try to bring a mech with an iNarc as the spotter to get that extra -1 to hit bonus. 

Firestarter is a interesting and good choice of a spotter mech.  I like.

[truetanker]

I can make a McNasty Level II using several WOB LRM Carriers, Blakist SRM Carriers and a Tessen.

Can back that up with more..

  TT

[Daryk]

He just confirmed 'mechs only...

[Charistoph]

Lots of missiles and warhalks are always impressive. 
What missile load outs are you bringing?  I'm assuming mostly Narc ammo,  Shame the ATM series doesn't have narc capability.  I feel like maybe all ATM rounds should count as Narc homing for the indirect fire or in a weird edge case of the narc pod offering a better bonus. 

Just checking did you adjust the BV for the standard clan pilots being 3/4

Yes, with NARC Ammo for the SRMs.

Yeah, it's too bad the ATMs don't have a NARC option, but since they are all Artemis IV equipped, I guess there wasn't felt a need.  Clanner Mechwarriors rarely like to cooperate outside the Hell's Horses.

I did account for the pilots, at least with SSW's Battleforce Builder.  If I wasn't keeping it to a

And no vehicles sorry cannon mechs only.  I don't need all the lists being weird vehicle swarms, with one submission being ASF flying out of range of the medium laser spam.  I think we have touched on all the ways letting anything but mechs in right now would turn the challenge on its head.

Give me a couple minutes then while I research Arrow IV Mechs...

Looks like the Bombardier would be the one I want most, as it has the Ammo to keep the rain going.

So that's 2 Lances of Bombardier BMB-05As, but that's if you want a manageable number with them having the Ammo to keep missing.  However, if you want to just flood the area in a turn with non-Homing Arrow IV, the UrbanMech UM-AIV will do the job with 20 fitting in that list.

The Bombardier Spotter will be an Owens C or a Vulcan VT-6C, depending on if you want flat speed or a Hopper for the job.

For Spotting Role for the Urbanmechs, we'll go with a Locust LCT-1S or 1V, or even most of the Introtech Wasps if you want someone able to bounce between cover.

[JoeJones]

An interesting list, gotta love those missiles.  I do wonder if throwing some 12C or 14C into the main line might be helpful, but its hard to say. 

BTW what missile load outs are you bringing?   

I’m keeping the standard half LRM, half SRM loadout per the record sheet.

Speaking of load outs it would be tempting to try to bring a mech with an iNarc as the spotter to get that extra -1 to hit bonus. 

The 13C is fitted with Artemis IV on its MMLs, so I think NARC would be redundant.

Firestarter is a interesting and good choice of a spotter mech.  I like.

It is effective, and it fit in the points I had remaining. It was either that, or a couple Stingers or Wasps.

[Iceweb]

I’m keeping the standard half LRM, half SRM loadout per the record sheet.

The 13C is fitted with Artemis IV on its MMLs, so I think NARC would be redundant.

I'm guessing that you want all Artemis ammo then, no specialty rounds. 

And Narc would be mostly redundant (indirect fire non withstanding but the indirect ability on MML is anemic)  However iNarc pods in exchange for being able to be brushed off, gives a -1 bonus to hit the target, and that was the draw I was thinking about.  Any thing to turn a miss into a hit.