Poll

What would you argue was the best Light Missile Tank in the Succession War Era?

Harasser (LRM)
9 (13.4%)
Scorpion (LRM)
5 (7.5%)
Hunter
27 (40.3%)
Striker
12 (17.9%)
Saracen
6 (9%)
Scimitar (LRM)
8 (11.9%)

Total Members Voted: 48

Voting closed: 28 December 2023, 23:36:16

Author Topic: What would you argue is the best Light Missile Tank in the Succession War Era?  (Read 1774 times)

Minemech

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 What would you argue to be the best Light (LRM) Missile Tank of the Succession War Era? Why?
 This is not strictly limited in terms of best stats, but rather whatever you think qualifies it as such. I will allow up to 2 votes given how excellent these vehicles can be at their roles, and the fact that different motive utilities may cause issues in voting straightforwardly.
 

Gorgon

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To me, the LRM Scimitar is the best missile tank. It's fast (for its time), reasonably well armored and better weapon focus than the Saracen. Hovers can be expected to dictate engagement range against all but the lightest enemies, so focusing on one range band makes it easier to use the tank as intended. So the LRM 15 wins out over the 10. Anything that can catch it (Harassers, J.Edgars) is just as threatened by two SRM-2 as by three.


As for a second choice, I'd say Hunter. The tracks allow it to bunker down in light woods or buildings while its speed is still good to keep up with a battle or reach the firing position fast enough. More missile tubes and better speed elevate it over the Scorpion.
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Daryk

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The LRM Scimitar wasn't one of the choices? ??? :/

Hammerhead

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I’m with Gorgon.  The only caveat I’d make is that if possible I’d choose between the Scimitar and Hunter based on terrain; Hunter in tough terrain for hunkering down (though fire arcs can be a bit of a bear sans turret) and Scimitar in everything else.

Elmoth

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Hunter and LRM scimitar for the reasons stated. But a honorable mention for the 2 disposable hulls of the Scorpion and Harasser. Just because they are cheap as hell. Quality in their quantity and cheapness.
« Last Edit: 18 December 2023, 03:52:56 by Elmoth »

Dapper Apples

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There's also the Warrior vtol with an LRM/10.  A spare ton of ammo for smoke or what-have-you too.

Hellraiser

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The LRM Scimitar wasn't one of the choices? ??? :/
Given the standard Scimitar lacks LRMs & the poll seems to imply LRMs based on 2 of them specifically noting LRM variant, I think we are assuming typo & LRM is the implied option.

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Hellraiser

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There's also the Warrior vtol with an LRM/10.  A spare ton of ammo for smoke or what-have-you too.

Not sure a helo is a "tank" but I agree with you that its a solid option for LRMs in game :)
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"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
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Minemech

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 Honestly, I could have listed a few variants of the above but chose not to, figuring players would factor in the ones they liked. I suspect that most Hunter voters are factoring in the variant with extra LRM 20 ammunition to give an example, and with Striker voters there are two options (The second of which was very late to the Succession Wars). The other units are straightforward. I figured that breaking them up would be a problem since they are likely modified as needed in the garage on base anyhow.

Daryk

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It's fixed now, and I'd have voted for it vice the Saracen.

Minemech

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It's fixed now, and I'd have voted for it vice the Saracen.
It is valid in this poll to change your vote.

Daryk

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Ummm... how do you change your vote?  I'm not seeing a way to do that... ?

Minemech

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Ummm... how do you change your vote?  I'm not seeing a way to do that... ?
I want to say that there is a remove vote option, but it is currently only showing me the edit poll option.

Daryk

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I'm not seeing that button, sorry! :/

Cannonshop

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The Hunter makes a lot of sense to me for the role it's made for-it's relatively quick for a track, and an LRM, and it can handle more terrain than the Hovers, making it a better choice for supporting expeditionary forces like 'mechs.

Light vehicles should NEVER be trying to get closer, unless they're "Suicide by SRM" machines.

Albeit, it would be better if they could fit a turret and still keep the volume of fire up.
« Last Edit: 01 December 2023, 02:30:03 by Cannonshop »
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Daryk

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Uhhh... you meant "Hunter", right?  :huh:

Minemech

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In some ways I am wondering if I should have listed the Hunter as it is the only tank with a Standard Fusion Engine up there.

Cannonshop

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Uhhh... you meant "Hunter", right?  :huh:

oops, good catch.
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DevianID

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In some ways I am wondering if I should have listed the Hunter as it is the only tank with a Standard Fusion Engine up there.

I came here to say this lol.  The Hunter with the LRM20 is the most missiles on the list, thanks to that fusion.  They could also make a fuel cell version of any of the missile tanks that would instantly be the new best seeing as fuel cells are like super cheap XL ICE engines.

I like the striker personally, the lrm15 variant has super deep ammo bins for long endurance fire missions.  The hunter is cheap, tracked, with no turret, so its technically really efficient and 'better', but it also feels like its cheating with the fusion engine.

The hovercrafts are all excellent, but not what I want for fire support.  I want my fire support mostly static, and the hovercraft pay a lot for their mobility.  Since I balance by BV or PV, a fast long range hover unit wants to be dancing at range firing directly at enemies on an open plain, while my missile 'Tank' instead finds a hull down position and rains indirect missiles forever.

Hellraiser

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In some ways I am wondering if I should have listed the Hunter as it is the only tank with a Standard Fusion Engine up there.

I don't think its the SFE that is getting it the votes, its the fact that its Tracked in a list w/ mostly hovers.
The Hovers are essentially splitting their votes based on personal choice, but everyone can appreciate a 5/8 Tracked Vee w/ an LRM20.
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3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Sir Chaos

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I voted Hunter, for the reasons everyone else has brought up, and Striker, because it´s reasonably fast, has a turret (and can thus run away while continuing to fire, instead of having to back up like the Hunter) and a backup short-ranged weapon. Hovercraft are just too vulnerable for my taste.
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Failure16

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I'm on Team Hunter, but I will always have an extreme soft spot for the Striker in this role (even if it is missing two axles).
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Vonshroom

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I picked the Saracen and the Hunter

The Saracen  is the best to me as its obscene speed, good armor, and solid weaponry give it an edge over many mechs when played in groups. It does everything that I want a non-mech force to do. Scout, provide LRM fire support, Flank, etc. So to me this is the best option, however from a practical standpoint hovers cannot do everything or keep up in certain terrain. Also they can't perform under fire as well as their tracked or wheeled counterparts. I have to pick the Saracen from the "most value added" and therefore "best" standpoint. Also a whole lance of Saracens would likely outperform a whole lance of any of the other choices on the poll by a country mile. That high THN plus the good range is going to be nasty. The fact that Saracens make excellent spotters for indirect fire and scouts takes the cake for me.

The Hunter is kind of a cheat because of the Fusion Engine, its cost is vastly higher than the others on the list and the Fusion Engine does make a big impact on its use. Definitely "on paper" one of the best vehicles of the era. However the high cost would limit its deployment in a "real" environment and make losing one more impactful. I can't vote against the Hunter because objectively it is way "better" than a choice like the LRM Scorpion. Yet, given the role of a procurement officer or a military commander I would definitely chose a lance of LRM Scorpions over a single Hunter.... The BV doesn't work out to quite the same numbers and generally I would argue that a single Hunter is worth 2 LRM Scorpions, so it beats out the Scorpion in BV based ranking. Also in a force where you are supporting deficiencies in your mech line with tanks (think all succession wars battles) the Scorpion is going to provide you with a capability that most closely matches that of a mechs. If I didn't have a LRM fire support element in my mech force a Hunter could reasonably fit the same role and wouldn't likely fall far behind a mech force.

Honorable Mention to the Striker.

Love the Striker and it is my favorite / preferred "guard the base" / missile support tank. Best? No.... but favorite. And the combo meal of the SRM-6 and the LRM's really does work to throw down against enemies at any range. Sort of  like a Vehicle version of a Crusader, soften them up at range (hopefully with help from buddies) then close in and crit seek if safe. It's reasonable speed and armor keep it alive any time something with a higher "shoot me" factor is on the board. This is pretty often considering the low BV and "threat" of a Striker. I usually run them in pairs supporting heavier tracked tanks, left alone a Striker (or two) can seriously damage other units. The LRM 15 version is nasty too, especially with alternate munitions and when paired with more deadly MBTs can also be a real treat. Great tank!
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Minemech

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 While it may be a bit too early to say this, I think that it is fair to say that the hovercraft will likely continue to track to a state of about equal. This is not a surprising result, nor is the fact that the Harasser has often been in the lead of their class. It should be noted that the Scimitar picked up a lot of slack after a favorable post, so a rousing argument does pay off. A cheeky counterargument would maintain that the Saladin, Saracen and Scimitar are ultimately the same tank with body remodeling.
« Last Edit: 03 December 2023, 19:45:14 by Minemech »

Hellraiser

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I'm honestly shocked that the Harasser is doing so well given the armor levels on it.
Like, spitwads can TAC it for pete's sake, LOL.
I am assuming its similar armor to the OG model, if it got up-armored then that could explain it.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Minemech

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I'm honestly shocked that the Harasser is doing so well given the armor levels on it.
Like, spitwads can TAC it for pete's sake, LOL.
I am assuming its similar armor to the OG model, if it got up-armored then that could explain it.
Na, you have to play it knowing that a hit means death. Positioning is everything, and speed genuinely helps more than armor circumstantially. It also sees improvement when larger tablespace is employed. Honestly the Saracen gets used similarly much of the time because for hover tanks glancing hits are themselves dangerous. The fact that they have 3 tons of ammunition also factors in.
« Last Edit: 04 December 2023, 00:01:09 by Minemech »

Daryk

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*snip*
A cheeky counterargument would maintain that the Saladin, Saracen and Scimitar are ultimately the same tank with body remodeling.
How about Scarborough's entire 3020 catalog? ;D

Starfury

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The Rhino, because 80 tons is light to someone.
For light units the Hunter, then the S hover tank thing that carries LRMs and SRMs.

Daryk

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That's the stock Saracen, and one variant of the Scimitar.

glitterboy2098

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i voted the Saracen and the Striker.

the Saracen, because it is a fast hover and fairly tough as such units go. the Striker, because while not as fast, its wheeled chassis is much easier for worlds to build and maintain, thus allowing it to be cheap and common. and it is just as well armored. and both have their weapons turreted, both with 10 LRM's and 6 SRM's in said turret. makign their main performance difference the movement type and speed.

combined they make for a nice high-low mix of missile support tanks.