Author Topic: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.  (Read 9177 times)

Hotham

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Early in the BattleTech Pax livestream today, it was mentioned that Star League was the #1 swag item chosen in the Mercenaries kickstarter. That has lead to the belief that fans are buying into the ilClan era. This may be a misinterpretion on what those numbers actually mean.

Fans are getting Star League swag for the First Star League, not the Third. We have yet to see anything from the ilClan/Third Star League to warrant a massive buy in.

We know nothing about it's units or how it will function.
Unless, it's just Clan Wolf units with a Star League logo slapped on the side of their Mechs. I don't think that's what Star League fans are looking for.

I think it's important to consider the reason that Star League swag was #1 is due in no small part to Tex of the Black Pants Legion's Star League videos, which has been a gateway for many new fans of the setting.

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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #1 on: 02 December 2023, 13:58:28 »
I agree with this. Plus the Cameron Star is a nifty logo that isn't obviously nerdy.
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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #2 on: 02 December 2023, 15:00:35 »
Would there even be a notable association with the third league and the star league logo (And thus merch) in wider fandom mind? There aren't a lot of products out there with a clear unambigious show of it.

And the era icon for ilclan uses a markedly different dagger star than the star league era logo. I note all the current merch uses the original star league era logo.

This feels like the devs jumping to the conclusion they want rather than consider all datapoints in play.

EDIT: Actually we do have some products giving the Third League a similar, but markedly different Logo to the original star league, which matches the ilclan era icon.
« Last Edit: 02 December 2023, 15:08:44 by RogueK »

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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #3 on: 02 December 2023, 15:43:45 »
I'm confused.  Where have you seen any devs claim it's all because of the IlClan era and the Third Star League?
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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #4 on: 02 December 2023, 16:50:32 »
I'm confused.  Where have you seen any devs claim it's all because of the IlClan era and the Third Star League?

The live stream this morning. Apparently CGL has noticed people like Star League swag more then anything else, and is interpreting that as enthusiasm for 3150.  :smilie_confused_dontknow:
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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #5 on: 02 December 2023, 17:00:01 »
It definitely feels like a misreading of the room, if they think the Star League's popularity is related to the Ilclan era.

Hotham I suspect has landed closer to the truth, that a lot of it has to do with Tex and the BPL, moreso than the Ilclan era that's barely shown any Star League affiliated anything.

Let alone a Star League that's not really representative of the 1st one.
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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #6 on: 02 December 2023, 17:01:05 »
Plus the Cameron Star is a nifty logo that isn't obviously nerdy.

This....

But....     I would have purchased the Star League stuff for the 3rd League if I had thought of that.  While the 3rd League feels like my jam, CGL hasn't really shown us anything of what the 3rd League looks like so it's hard to develop a real affinity towards it.

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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #7 on: 02 December 2023, 18:48:42 »
I'm slowly getting the impression that those who are informing TPTB aren't listening to what we who populate this forum are saying and asking for. Maybe we should all move to Reddit?

Ray (edit) and Aaron (end edit) show up here every now and then but they seems to be the only ones.

Waiting for someone to prove me wrong.
« Last Edit: 03 December 2023, 09:49:51 by Known Glitch »

Hotham

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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #8 on: 02 December 2023, 19:17:04 »
Would there even be a notable association with the third league and the star league logo (And thus merch) in wider fandom mind? There aren't a lot of products out there with a clear unambigious show of it.

I believe fans of the First Star League, many of which are new to the setting, will be able to tell the difference between the iconography the different Leagues. We do have several products with the ilClan logo on them, but none of them actually show or focus on the ilClan itself.

I'm confused.  Where have you seen any devs claim it's all because of the IlClan era and the Third Star League?

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I'm slowly getting the impression that those who are informing TPTB aren't listening to what we who populate this forum are saying and asking for. Maybe we should all move to Reddit?

Ray shows up here every now and then but he seems to be the only one.

Waiting for someone to prove me wrong.

Not a fan of the BattleTech reddit, perceptions can be very muddled there. While it would be nice to get some feedback from a staff member, that's ultimately not necessary. I mainly want to bring light to a potential problem. CGL has the numbers telling them the First Star League is popular, but if they market the ilClan/Third Star League to those fans, they may not get the result they think they will.
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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #9 on: 02 December 2023, 19:17:52 »
The live stream this morning. Apparently CGL has noticed people like Star League swag more then anything else, and is interpreting that as enthusiasm for 3150.  :smilie_confused_dontknow:

It's near the start of the following sectionn of the live stream:

Intro and What's up with BattleTech panel with Aaron Cahall (Assistant Lead Developer), Michael Ciaravella (Author) and Rem Alternis (CGL community and marketing director)

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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #10 on: 03 December 2023, 04:28:12 »
There's no evidence that their assumption here is going to be changing plans massively.  Like even with these Star League forcepacks at least one is OG Star League themed, at least one is second Star League, so at worst two out of the four are Third League.  And even then, it's not like this game locks units to factions in any meaningful way.  Buy your Third League forcepack and paint the minis in whatever colour you want.  And the only book announced for the Third League is the same book that's been on the horizon for a year now...
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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #11 on: 03 December 2023, 09:44:06 »
There's no evidence that their assumption here is going to be changing plans massively.  Like even with these Star League forcepacks at least one is OG Star League themed, at least one is second Star League, so at worst two out of the four are Third League.  And even then, it's not like this game locks units to factions in any meaningful way.  Buy your Third League forcepack and paint the minis in whatever colour you want.  And the only book announced for the Third League is the same book that's been on the horizon for a year now...

Right, but what the Original poster is saying, and what I agree with, is that the 3rd Star League and Ilclan era, is not what drove the interest the audience had, towards the Star League merchandise. Tex Talks Battletech of the first Star League, was.
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bobthecoward

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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #12 on: 03 December 2023, 10:14:47 »
Right, but what the Original poster is saying, and what I agree with, is that the 3rd Star League and Ilclan era, is not what drove the interest the audience had, towards the Star League merchandise. Tex Talks Battletech of the first Star League, was.

I'm not even sure it is interest in the Star League. It is a faction every other faction has a connection to. It might as well be the logo of a sports league for people who like the sport, but don't necessarily want to wear team specific merch.

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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #13 on: 03 December 2023, 10:17:59 »
I'm not even sure it is interest in the Star League. It is a faction every other faction has a connection to. It might as well be the logo of a sports league for people who like the sport, but don't necessarily want to wear team specific merch.

Oh yea, I'm about as interested in the Star League as I am in moldy cheese personally. lol
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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #14 on: 03 December 2023, 11:20:55 »
I'm slowly getting the impression that those who are informing TPTB aren't listening to what we who populate this forum are saying and asking for. Maybe we should all move to Reddit?
The folks on this forum are the most deeply entrenched fans.  But that does not make them representative of the larger fanbase, including all the new people who have come in over the last several years after the first KS.

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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #15 on: 03 December 2023, 12:02:22 »
I think it's important to consider the reason that Star League swag was #1 is due in no small part to Tex of the Black Pants Legion's Star League videos, which has been a gateway for many new fans of the setting.

I believe fans of the First Star League, many of which are new to the setting, will be able to tell the difference between the iconography the different Leagues.

Right, but what the Original poster is saying, and what I agree with, is that the 3rd Star League and Ilclan era, is not what drove the interest the audience had, towards the Star League merchandise. Tex Talks Battletech of the first Star League, was.

I'm not even sure it is interest in the Star League. It is a faction every other faction has a connection to. It might as well be the logo of a sports league for people who like the sport, but don't necessarily want to wear team specific merch.

Oh yea, I'm about as interested in the Star League as I am in moldy cheese personally. lol

Hmm.
Interesting theories.

Personally, I've never heard of Tex Talk or the Black Pants Legion & I'm not new to the game since I found it in 1986.

I like the SLDF because of the Warships & the whole "can't we all just get along" nature of it.
I'm a fan of armies & fleets but not the disintegration of society feel of the 3SW & the Dark Ages.

I agree with the mention up thread that the Cameron Star as an icon that isn't clearly "game related".

I'm inclined to think Bob might be onto something. 
The 1st SL is sort of every factions "origin story" and many can relate to it.

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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #16 on: 03 December 2023, 12:21:01 »
What I'd be curious to see is the full statistics on the Merc Kickstarter swag choices

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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #17 on: 03 December 2023, 12:26:03 »
Not a lot of Star League (1st) interest here.  I’m a lot more interested in Third Succession War through Civil War and the ilClan period.  Those products are cool, but I’m not sure those mech packs grab me.

Mind you, I said that about Mercenary Force Packs as well, and I still purchased two of them.  I guess my will power fails me sometimes…

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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #18 on: 03 December 2023, 12:35:38 »
I bought a bunch of Star League swag, but it did not occur to me to associate it with the new Wolf League or really even the short-lived second league.

I'm sure Alaric will throw Cameron stars everywhere he thinks it might grant him legitimacy, but that's his business.
« Last Edit: 03 December 2023, 13:37:20 by klarg1 »

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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #19 on: 03 December 2023, 12:38:47 »
I guess my will power fails me sometimes…
LOL!
I was actually at Barnes & Noble yesterday & they had the ELH pack?  I think that was the one.
And I had to "Just say NO" to it even though I was like, but, but, but, ... MUST....OWN....SAGITTAIRE!!!

It was rough, but made easier by being able to say NO to what would be my 5th for each of the other 3 (Banshee, Cyclops, T-Bolt)
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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #20 on: 03 December 2023, 16:16:07 »
Interpreting SL emblem popularity as people liking Alaric or the ilClan era is... well, "misguided" is the only polite word I can think of. I'm pretty sure anybody who's actually a fanboy/fangirl of Alaric would associate him with Clan Wolf/Wolf Empire heraldry, anyway.

Now seems like as good a time as any to mention I would love it if they could come up with designs for shirts that are more imaginative than "giant faction logo."
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Hotham

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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #21 on: 03 December 2023, 16:29:16 »
There's no evidence that their assumption here is going to be changing plans massively.  Like even with these Star League forcepacks at least one is OG Star League themed, at least one is second Star League, so at worst two out of the four are Third League.  And even then, it's not like this game locks units to factions in any meaningful way.  Buy your Third League forcepack and paint the minis in whatever colour you want.  And the only book announced for the Third League is the same book that's been on the horizon for a year now...

I don't think they will change plans either, I think this assumption tells CGL that they're on the right course already.

The problem is not the Star League forcepacks or what label is on them. Those forcepacks will sell like hot cakes. The minitures will always sale, some more than others, but they will sale.

My concern is with the fiction and sourcebooks going forward, specifically ilKhan's Eyes Only. As someone who is still invested in the ilClan era, I don't just want it to be successful, I want it to be massively successful. I don't want ilClan to drop off or peter out.

So far, the ilClan sourcebooks have been selling well, but we're a year of products into the era and we have yet to see the ilClan. Yet, we hear that there may an assumption in CGL that fans are buying in to ilClan/Third Star League despite haven't shown anything from it. I find that concerning.

I want ilClan to keep it's success and grow. I want CGL to understand it's current audience. I don't want ilClan to end up in the same regard as Jihad or Dark.

I'm not even sure it is interest in the Star League. It is a faction every other faction has a connection to. It might as well be the logo of a sports league for people who like the sport, but don't necessarily want to wear team specific merch.

Perhaps, there's a lot of factors involved. Aaron says they were surprise that Star League was #1 considering that it is a centruries old dead faction. So if this popularity is new to CGL, I think it's important to pinpoint exactly where it came from.

Hmm.
Interesting theories.

Personally, I've never heard of Tex Talk or the Black Pants Legion & I'm not new to the game since I found it in 1986.

I like the SLDF because of the Warships & the whole "can't we all just get along" nature of it.

Then I highly recommend you check out the Black Pants Legion YouTube channel. Tex has high production videos on the Star League, it's founding, it's downfall, and one video on the history and impact of WarShips.
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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #22 on: 03 December 2023, 16:41:33 »
LOL!
I was actually at Barnes & Noble yesterday & they had the ELH pack?  I think that was the one.
And I had to "Just say NO" to it even though I was like, but, but, but, ... MUST....OWN....SAGITTAIRE!!!

It was rough, but made easier by being able to say NO to what would be my 5th for each of the other 3 (Banshee, Cyclops, T-Bolt)

This is the mindset that kept me buying the Gray Death Legion packs. I'm only just getting into ilClan, so I don't have much use yet for the Regent, I've painted a Gargoyle up as Ronan's ride already (to match Bel's Hatchetman), and there are only so many K2 Catapults knocking about in the latter 3SW (to the point that the MUL calls them extinct by 3020), but even so -- jumping Shadow Hawk. Must. Open. Wallet...

MarauderD

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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #23 on: 03 December 2023, 16:44:57 »
LOL!
I was actually at Barnes & Noble yesterday & they had the ELH pack?  I think that was the one.
And I had to "Just say NO" to it even though I was like, but, but, but, ... MUST....OWN....SAGITTAIRE!!!

It was rough, but made easier by being able to say NO to what would be my 5th for each of the other 3 (Banshee, Cyclops, T-Bolt)


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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #24 on: 03 December 2023, 16:55:14 »
The Star League logo, to me, is the most generic, faction agnostic, stand-in logo possible; used as a symbol for the Battletech franchise in it's most general application. I don't think I'd be alone in that sentiment.

I'm pretty sure I've ordered some Star League swag as part of the kickstarter, but that has nothing to do with any iteration of the Star League so much as it has to do with having a set of generic stand-in iconography that can represent just about anything, in any era of the game.

Reading that as a specific endorsement of the yet-to-be 3150's 3rd Star League seems like someone counting chickens before they hatch.

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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #25 on: 03 December 2023, 17:19:59 »
Those Tex videos are wildly popular among the BattleTech fandom on reddit and Facebook.

I've personally never watched one because frankly, from what I can tell they don't cover anything I don't already know. But they get recommended by people for new fans. That and Sarna, to the point I feel like people don't quite understand Sarna is a fan wiki and not an official canon source.
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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #26 on: 03 December 2023, 17:24:56 »
I'm very interested in hearing how else CGL was supposed to push the ilClan era as a point of entry for new players if not like this.
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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #27 on: 03 December 2023, 17:55:46 »
I'm very interested in hearing how else CGL was supposed to push the ilClan era as a point of entry for new players if not like this.

Saying the Star League, come check it out, is one thing.

Saying that people love the Star League because of the Ilclan era, isn't really attached to... anything that can be conceived as a datapoint. And doesn't really do much PR for it either.
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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #28 on: 03 December 2023, 18:10:45 »
I'm struggling to see how that has any effect on the outcome here.

EDIT: not to put too fine a point on it, the teeny tiny curated behind-the-scenes single digit number of seconds on a livestream that a vanishingly small fraction of the BattleTech community watched isn't high on my list of things that matter significantly to the result.

The outcome is that we're getting 3rd Star League product.  We'll see whether the datapoint is supported or not soon enough.
« Last Edit: 03 December 2023, 18:13:27 by Scotty »
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Re: Star League swag numbers and a potential misinterpretation.
« Reply #29 on: 03 December 2023, 20:44:00 »
Early in the BattleTech Pax livestream today, it was mentioned that Star League was the #1 swag item chosen in the Mercenaries kickstarter. That has lead to the belief that fans are buying into the ilClan era. This may be a misinterpretion on what those numbers actually mean.

Fans are getting Star League swag for the First Star League, not the Third. We have yet to see anything from the ilClan/Third Star League to warrant a massive buy in.

We know nothing about it's units or how it will function.
Unless, it's just Clan Wolf units with a Star League logo slapped on the side of their Mechs. I don't think that's what Star League fans are looking for.

I think it's important to consider the reason that Star League swag was #1 is due in no small part to Tex of the Black Pants Legion's Star League videos, which has been a gateway for many new fans of the setting.

Yea I think they took that the wrong way too.  Because I think the reality is nobody cares about the third Star League.