Author Topic: Urbie Deathball Stronk?  (Read 785 times)

Inxentas

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Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« on: 07 April 2025, 01:28:49 »
I've had a battle last week with a strange resolution. This was a campaign battle where the OpFor is 50% of the opponents BV. These fights usually end in favor of the bigger force (the idea here is that the players do smaller battles against my OpFors to clear the map, get some rewards, and have a chance of getting their pilots headshot. Usually the players win, but this week I had the strangest thing happen, and it reverberated in our heads a little afterwards.

Side A (4000 BV)
Ymir   BWP-3A
Gladiator GLD-3R
Firebee WAM-B
Mongoose   MON-69

Side B (2000 BV)
UrbanMech UM-R60
UrbanMech UM-R60L
Demolisher MK1

Side B won the scenario this time. We gathered that Side A's issue was that his 'Mechs simply didn't have the damage numbers to slog through a Demolisher's armor properly. Their only option would be to pepper these slower units until the edge of the map would prevent kiting units from achieving range. Coming into short range of Side B's deathball setup means there's up to 3 AC20's with decent to-hit chances waiting. Since Urbies are arm-flippers and the Demolisher has a turret, no hex in LOS was truly safe. Since Side A couldn't escape their range forever due to the map being two sheets, and had massive misfortune trying to kill the UM-R60 (which by the end of it, was being held together by it's paintjob). It was interesting, but somewhat of a bummer to my friend. Now he's a good sport, and we started to deconstruct the scenario. It was clear his Lance was tooled to be speedy and cover all range brackets, which also meant no 'Mech in his setup had any dedicated short-range weapons with the punch needed to get through a Demolisher's armor. We decided to have the OpFor remain in it's campaign hex, so it can be challenged by other Lances.

What kind of Lance (2025, 4000Bv) would you like to field against Side B's forces? Imagine a two-sheet battle with one sheet being open space and the other mountainous terrain. Using TW rules.

CarcosanDawn

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #1 on: 07 April 2025, 01:48:16 »
Did he go for side shots on the Demolisher? Locations being what they are on combat vehicles, you very rarely need to puncture the armor to actually cripple or render irrelevant the vehicle.
Size sometimes matters.

Inxentas

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #2 on: 07 April 2025, 06:00:29 »
Yes he did, but for some reason all the criticals did was eat up it's MP... which it doesn't need when it's halfway down the table already, and having a 360 view of the battlefield!  ???

Mechman08

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #3 on: 07 April 2025, 08:07:18 »
This seems like one of those things that’ll come up from time to time due to the typical skirmish game’s “Destroy/Cripple XX% of the opposing force” objective.  Since the mission is the destruction of a force-in-being, rather than some other objective, you lose the option to just maneuver around the low mobility units and leave.  In which case, otherwise trash units like Urbies become rather efficient; they HAVE to be dealt with, so they might as well spend their BV on armor and guns.

This is something I inadvertently took advantage of in a BV-matched 3025 campaign way back when.  I collected a bunch of Urbies my teammates didn’t want into a very expendable Lance, thinking to use them up earning C-Bills for units I actually wanted.  And then I had a surprising amount of success with them.  At barely over 2k BV, match ups were often against bug-mechs that couldn’t out range them, and that a single lucky AC-10 shot could put on the ground.

Looking at your friend’s Lance, I’d be willing to rematch the death-ball with it, but I’d go in expecting a long, frustrating game.  Given the option, I’d deploy on the mountainous map with my Mechs split 2-and-2 towards the map edges.  I think I’d pair the Ymir and Gladiator, with the Firebee and Mongoose as the other element.

Overall game plan:
1. Move towards the midline between the maps as quickly as I could.
2. Watch for which pair the death-ball heads off to try and corner.  Deny battle with that pair as long as practical.
3. Get my other pair onto the clear map as quickly as possible.
4. Plink the Demolisher, hoping to slow it down.  Ignore the UM-R60 if either of the other targets are available.
5. If at all possible, never exchange fire at less than 7 hexes.  Force the choice of spending ammo on 10+ to-hit shots or just having no answer.
6. Harass until one of us quits in frustration.

Reasoning behind the plan:
1. Demolisher is the primary target, since it’s the only unit with the ammo count to keep taking low hit chance shots.  If slowed or immobilized in the open, it can be destroyed a leisure.  The Urbies will run out quick firing on 9 or 10+.
2. I want to keep the Urbies out of the mountains, where their jump jets would be handy, and my fast units would be losing TMM.
3. I also want the Demolisher out of the mountains.  I don’t want it finding an LOS hidey-hole that could force a “come and get me” situation.

That’s about the best I can come up with for playing the odds.  But when dealing with AC-20’s, hot dice at the wrong time can always throw the plan out the window.

Daryk

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #4 on: 07 April 2025, 12:50:20 »
How many Warriors can I get for that BV again? ;D

CarcosanDawn

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #5 on: 07 April 2025, 12:54:30 »
Yes he did, but for some reason all the criticals did was eat up it's MP... which it doesn't need when it's halfway down the table already, and having a 360 view of the battlefield!  ???

I mean on 2 map sheets, 50% of the way up the board is 25% of the board to go to get in range, and since it takes vehicles 3 MP to go up hill, it takes flank speed to climb a single hex with a Demolisher, haha. And it can't see over it if it doesn't climb, and it can't climb if it has to turn to do so...
Size sometimes matters.

Mechman08

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #6 on: 07 April 2025, 13:24:48 »
How many Warriors can I get for that BV again? ;D

Man, spent all of lunch crafting a battle plan.  And it’s entirely blown out of the water with one line, lol.

Daryk

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #7 on: 07 April 2025, 13:51:17 »
AC/2s FTW! :D

Paul

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #8 on: 07 April 2025, 19:29:40 »
Step 1: Cripple Demolisher. (Completed by opfor) Make sure this task is done while never getting closer than 7 hexes. Between the Gladiator, Firebee and Ymir, this should be easy.
Step 2: See what happens: do the urbies stick with the demolisher? Or do they split up?
Step 3: If they stick together, shoot the AC10 one until it runs out of ammo or otherwise loses the AC10. You have now won. Only 1 AC20 left to deal with, with very little ammo.
Step 4: If they split up, basically do the same, but while pulling it from the tank enough to permit more flanking shots.

The Mongoose actually has an important job here: stay alive and boost initiative. It ensures you always know where 1 of the urbies goes.

Remember also that when you're in a hex with a hostile tank, neither of you can shoot each other, but you can still kick it.

I'm surprised by the outcome. Not sure how the urbies had enough ammo to remain a threat. And with them gone or out of ammo, you just move to 7 hexes from the immobilized demolisher (ideally with 2 Mechs) and then rush in to start kicking it with the 1 of your choice. Odds of it killing both your Mechs at once is low.

Alternative to the above plan: swarm an urby and give it 4 kicks. Every turn.
You have a *massive* damage potential in physical attacks that must be exploited, and especially the AC10 one simply can't do enough damage fast enough. A charge from a Mongoose would go instead of the kick.

I think the opponent may have been too focused on avoiding AC20 shots to the point of minimizing his own advantages too much. One thing with BT: you have to accept that you *will* take damage, and you need to manage that. By both ensuring that your mech of choice takes the damage, and by forcing the enemy to commit too many resources in getting that job done.
The solution is just ignore Paul.

DevianID

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #9 on: 07 April 2025, 21:51:34 »
So more or less it sounds like your player was too aggressive.  With such range limited units, and you playing on 2 map sheets, standing still and shooting with the longer ranged guns at range 18-12 should happen before they even consider moving backwards.

If the maps were wall to wall heavy woods with no elevation for long range shots, well thats a totally different problem, but it sounds like it was a normal map that allowed for range 10+ shots.  Urbies move only 2 hexes, 3 at most, so dropping an urbie with its 1 TMM and +4 long range is totally achievable on 9s, again assuming its not all woods that prevent long range shots.

If the Urbies were hiding in a corner/woods in killbox alley never moving and forcing the player to walk into death, the mission should have an alternate win condition if the opfor isnt gonna play the game and the map only has 3 hex LOS max. 

But most maps are pretty balanced and dont have this problem, so just play it again and tell your friend to sit at long/medium range until at least 1 unit is dead, forcing the urbies to do all the moving.

Inxentas

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #10 on: 07 April 2025, 22:59:47 »
Thanks guys, good suggestions all-round! As for why the Urbies never ran out of ammo... they never had to fire all that much. The Urbie named Melon managed to crit it's gyro while doing 20 pts of damage, it fell that round... and the Urbie squad was close enough to get that -2 from Prone + Adjacent on both AC's.

There was also the fact that Melon just would. not. die.

Since his Executioner was playing soccer with the Demolisher (it and the Ymir indeed played very aggressive) and the Mongoose / Firebee made hit-and-runs, it turned into something of a dirty execution up close. We did have fun though, my side kept the campaign hex and we agreed on how to handle repair costs for OpFors. We kept the exact force in that hex on permanent Defend order as a challenge.

I get now why my friend lost so horribly. I also made the case most of his 'Mechs could engage at most range brackets, he lacked any dedicated damage dealers on any bracket. I had one basket with all my eggs in it, he had a bunch of baskets with one egg each, and shouldn't have thrown them!

CarcosanDawn

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #11 on: 09 April 2025, 14:45:49 »
Playing soccer with a Demolisher sounds like a great way to play soccer with one AC20 shell in each shin.
Size sometimes matters.

Daryk

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #12 on: 09 April 2025, 14:48:00 »
If your shins can take that, the Demolisher is toast...

CarcosanDawn

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #13 on: 09 April 2025, 14:50:01 »
If your shins can take that, the Demolisher is toast...

It'd be quite the unexpected melee attack - maybe even a soccer-punch.
Size sometimes matters.

Daryk

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #14 on: 09 April 2025, 14:56:19 »
I blame playing HBS BattleTech... physicals do extra damage to vehicles in that game, but stomping on a Demolisher means it can't shoot you that turn... you just have to survive the approach... :D

CarcosanDawn

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #15 on: 09 April 2025, 15:42:17 »
I blame playing HBS BattleTech... physicals do extra damage to vehicles in that game, but stomping on a Demolisher means it can't shoot you that turn... you just have to survive the approach... :D

Depends on where you kick it from - new errata treats vehicles like 'mechs, so you can hit them from adjacent hexes
Size sometimes matters.

Daryk

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #16 on: 09 April 2025, 16:34:14 »
True, but if you intend to kick, the same hex as the Demolisher is the place to do it from! :D

ckosacranoid

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Re: Urbie Deathball Stronk?
« Reply #17 on: 03 May 2025, 15:17:19 »
If nothing else, SRM inferno ammo to deal with the tank...set it on fire.