Author Topic: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted  (Read 1238 times)

Nikodemius

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« on: 19 May 2024, 17:15:10 »
Heya peoples!

Following thing :

You need this for a campaign :

Late Succession Wars (3020-3049)

15.000 BV max
10 Mechs max

Persistent Damage (damage carries over from 1 scenario to another)



Put a list together for Capellan Confederation



FYI - mine looks like this right now (cause some scenarios may make you defend places, where others could make u need different stuff) :


100 T - Atlas 7D - 3/5 - 2276 BV (im REALLY not sure if i go with this or King Crab 000?!.. Allround wise the Atlas should be more useful?)


90 T - Highlander 733C - 3/5 2228 BV


80 T - Awesome 8Q - 3/5 - 1926 BV


70 T - Grasshopper 5N (i picked this over Guillotine, hard choice imo) - 3/5 - 1813 BV


70 T - Archer 2R - 3/5 - 1772 BV
(im not sure about this one but i dont have any other Missile Boat).. had the idea of cutting one Mongoose and replace it with a 3X Raven with Narc+TAG for this.. but the Raven is quiet slow imo) ... was thinking about to replace this with a Marauder 3R or Warhammer 6R


50 T - Hunchback 4P - 3/5 - 1366 BV (i dont think the 4SP is better)


50 T - Crab 20 - 3/5 (those LLs need to hit) .. - 1372 BV


3x 25 T - Mongoose 67 - 4/5 (cause cant afford 3/5s) - 741 BV each (cause i think there is no better light choice .. might cut 1 and replace it with 1 Firestarter for flamer gimmicks.. but idk)


14976 BV


your thoughts?
« Last Edit: 20 May 2024, 06:20:53 by Nikodemius »

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3491
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #1 on: 20 May 2024, 00:04:36 »

My take.  12 mechs instead of 10, but all Capellan designs/variants.  Favored armor and energy weapons where possible for multi-scenario survivability.  Fire Lance can throw 120 LRMs per turn, indirectly with spotting from the Ravens, if needed.  Alternately, the EW Equipment on the Ravens can hide the Command Lance for ambushes or flush out enemy ambushes.

Command Lance
Highlander -733P, 1801
Marauder -3L, 1363
Cataphract -2X, 1344
Guillotine -4L, 1400

Fire Lance
Catapult -C1, 1339
Catapult -C1, 1339
Catapult -C1, 1339
Catapult -C1, 1339

Recon Lance
Vindicator -1R, 1024
Raven -1X, 639
Vindicator -1R, 1024
Raven -1X, 639

Total BV2: 14590
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Nikodemius

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #2 on: 20 May 2024, 06:24:20 »
How would you adjust your choice if u could put in a max of 10 Mechs?

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3491
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #3 on: 20 May 2024, 09:45:37 »

If I was going to use indirect fire or the EW capabilities of the Ravens, then I’d drop the Vindicators.  If not, I’d keep the Vindicators and drop the Ravens.

Although ostensibly a Fire Lance, when their LRMs run dry, the four Catapults double as a mean close combat unit thanks to their 16 medium lasers and jump capability. Because of this dual capability, I almost always take a Catapult over a stock Archer -2R when I can.  There’s also a Liao Crusader variant but it throws fewer LRMs and uses SRMs, so more explosive ammo.

The Highlander is the PPC variant, so less explosive ammo (and more range) than the AC/20 or AC/10 variants.  That Liao Marauder has nice heat management, even if it’s weapons ranges don’t exactly match.  That Cataphract has more armor than the -1X variant for a bit less punch.  There’s also the Liao “Hothammer” Warhammer variant, but it’s less well armored than the Cataphract or the Marauder.  The Guillotine is a Liao downgrade, but the Grasshopper variant with the PPC is the best of the heavy 4/6/4 bullies from this era.

Generic P-Hawks might be better choices than the Vindicators, but they’re not a Capellan design.

15K BV2 is a little high for ten mechs in this era.  Forces you to employ high-end assaults, which the Cappies don’t have much in the way of native designs for.  All your unit choices except the Highlander are foreign.  But almost any mech can be justified for any faction in this era, so Atlases and Awesomes are not forbidden for the Cappies either if you don’t care about faction flavor.

Hope this helps.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Nikodemius

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #4 on: 20 May 2024, 12:34:06 »
My choice just happened according to MUL at that time, didnt think too much about faction flavor, buuut thats another thought and the list / Strategy sounds quiet nice.

Im surprised about the Medium vindi choice there, Expected hunchs or crab for sure, otherwise treb 5Ns for the ravens  -

And i notice u dont aim to get better pilots apart from the 4/5 standart ones, where i aim to get at least 3/5 in the bigger armed ones

Id be curious what List ud take without much faction Flavor sticking and better pilots.


Btw, a 3/5 highlander is Almost same BV as an atlas, i wonder why/being 10t lighter

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4276
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #5 on: 20 May 2024, 14:25:02 »
Lore-wise, this is a very top-heavy lineup. The CapCon had lost the ability to built 'Mechsof more than 70 tons in or about 3015.

The Raven was rare. As a brand-new design that wasn’t quite ready for production yet it was rushed to the frontlines in the 4th SW where it predictably fared poorly as a line combat unit.
The Cataphract was similarly new and thus rare, plus its production line was lost in the 4th SW.
So while they were both invented by the CC, neither design existed in significant enough numbers before 3049 to be considered a mainstay or standard 'Mech in the CCAF.
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13386
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #6 on: 20 May 2024, 15:34:58 »
The CapCon had lost the ability to built 'Mechsof more than 70 tons in or about 3015.

Are you sure about that date?

I thought it was the 4th SW that cost them anything over 70 tons.

Pretty sure St. Ives had Victor & LongBow production prior to the 4th SW, and IIRC, there was a note about Tikonov & Thugs somewhere.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13386
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #7 on: 20 May 2024, 16:03:40 »

Late Succession Wars (3020-3049)
15.000 BV max
10 Mechs max

For a very CapCon feel direct from their factories.

Code: [Select]
Mech-Variant BV Skill XPMod   SkillBV
Locust-1L 474 4*5 1 474
Wasp-1L         335 4*5 1 335
Raven-3L 708 3*4 1.32 934.56
BlackJack-3 1271 2*4 1.54 1957.34
Vindicator-1R 1024 3*5 1.2 1228.8
Cicada-3C 771 2*4 1.54 1187.34
Wolverine-6R 1101 3*3 1.44 1585.44
Catapult-C1 1399 2*4 1.54 2154.46
Crusader-3L 1297 1*3 1.92 2490.24
Victor-9B 1378 1*3 1.92 2645.76

Totals 9758 14992.94


3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3491
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #8 on: 21 May 2024, 16:43:28 »
My choice just happened according to MUL at that time, didnt think too much about faction flavor, buuut thats another thought and the list / Strategy sounds quiet nice.

Yeah, the MUL is pretty forgiving in terms of what factions have access to what designs in the Late Succession Wars.  My company above is a stab at doing it with nothing but obviously Cappie designs.  But most Late Succession War companies would be a mix of House-specific designs, salvage from neighboring Houses, and just long-term survivors, some going all the way back to the Star League Era.

Quote
Im surprised about the Medium vindi choice there, Expected hunchs or crab for sure, otherwise treb 5Ns for the ravens

I’d definitely take the survivability (no ammo) of the Crab-20 over the Vindies.  It's possible that the Cappies have access to Crab production or refits on Northwind if Cosara Weaponries has not been totally wiped out, at least before the Cappies lose Northwind in the 4th Succession WR.  But the Vindies are obviously in production in Cappie space throughout this period and beyond so I stuck with the Vindis for the sake of the Cappie purity that I was going for.

I’m not a fan of the Treb generally, and especially in this campaign.  Armor is only as good as a high-end light (and definitely thinner than the Crab or Vindi) and has a couple ammo bombs (versus one on the Vindi and none on the Crab).  Also, in my Cappie company, fire support is amply covered by the four Catapults.  Don’t need more from Trebs, but the hole-punching of the PPCs and large lasers on the Crab and Vindies are useful and complementary.

I like the Laserback -4P, but it just didn’t pass my Cappie purity test, and at 4/6/0, it might have trouble keeping up with and bodyguarding the 5/8 Ravens.  The Vindies can at least jump 4 and the Crab would match the Ravens’ 5/8 speed.  Also, there’s a personal Griffin variant below that basically does what the Laserback does but on a more mobile platform and with a peeper to boot.

Quote
And i notice u dont aim to get better pilots apart from the 4/5 standart ones, where i aim to get at least 3/5 in the bigger armed ones

Just lazy.  I left the P/G skill tweaking to you.

Quote
Id be curious what List ud take without much faction Flavor sticking and better pilots.

If I cared nothing about faction flavor or being called a munchkin and I knew that I was only facing mechs, then this is what I would take for your campaign:

Assault Lance
Marauder II -4A, 2073
Marauder II -4A, 2073
Grasshopper -5N, 1511
Grasshopper -5N, 1511

Battle Lance
Griffin -1E “Sparky”, 1449
Griffin -1E “Sparky”, 1449
Griffin -1E “Sparky”, 1449
Griffin -1E “Sparky”, 1449

Strike Section
Jenner -F, 1011
Jenner -F, 1011

Total BV2:  14986

These are all maximally/thickly armored designs with no ammo/all energy weapons.  (And the Assault Lance is crit-packed with heat sinks.)  They’re as good as you can get for surviving multiple games against other mechs in a Late Succession Wars Era campaign.  At range, they throw 10 PPC and 2 large laser shots per turn — that’s 116 points of damage divided into 10- and 8-point hits, which will leave a lot of holes in a lot of enemy mechs.  When combat closes, they take advantage of the most efficient weapon in the game and throw 42 medium laser shots per turn for 210 points of damage.  (And the Assault Lance will add 6 PPC shots to its medium laser fire thanks to all the heat sinks on those designs.). And every single design is jump-capable and more than half are 5/8 or above, so they can close.

Against other Succession Wars mechs, this company is like a Roman Legion, just inexorable.  Highly survivable (armor, no ammo, heat sinks), mostly inescapable (jump jets), puts big holes in enemy armor at range with pilums (PPCs), and then cuts the survivors down in close combat with an overwhelming number of gladii (medium lasers).  It should beat almost any other mech unit of roughly equivalent numbers and BV in the Late Succession Wars.

But there’s nothing Capellan about this company, and it’s a weird, utterly munchkin mix of merc, personal, and Combine designs, to boot.  And although I think it could handle about any Succession Wars enemy unit and terrain through sheer survivability, volume of fire, and jump jets, I’d want to mix in some other weapons if I was expecting enemy infantry and maybe even against enemy tanks and fighters.

So here’s a company that mixes in some also-rans for variety and for alternate ammo use against infantry/tanks/fighters.  Again, nothing particularly Capellan, but this company might pass as a high-end FedCom merc company without being totally munchkin like the one above.

Assault Lance
Marauder II -4A, 2073
Atlas -RS, 1849
Banshee -3S, 1751
Grasshopper -5N, 1511

Battle Lance
Battlemaster -1D, 1522
Warhammer -6D, 1471
Griffin -1E “Sparky”, 1449
Wolverine -6M, 1291

Strike Section
Wolfhound -1B, 967
Jenner -F, 1011

Total BV2: 14895

This company is less mobile and more explody than the one above.  Still dangerous but less so against mechs.  But there are no Uber-munchkin twins or quadruplets and there’s some MGs and SRMs on a few units for mowing down/napalming infantry and pillboxing tanks, and some AC/10s on a couple units for flakking fighters out of the sky.

Some alternate mechs for this company:

Devastator -1D, 1858
Awesome -8Q, 1605
Marauder -3D, 1470
Guillotine -4L, 1400
Javelin -10F “Fire Javelin”, 835

Quote
Btw, a 3/5 highlander is Almost same BV as an atlas, i wonder why/being 10t lighter

Not sure, but I would guess the jump jets.  They tend to be BV-expensive, IIRC.

Hope this helps.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13386
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #9 on: 21 May 2024, 16:50:08 »
Griffin -1E “Sparky”, 1449

Not sure, but I would guess the jump jets.  They tend to be BV-expensive, IIRC.

1.  How do you know your force is cheesy?    You've gone so far as to have 4 copies of a Unique mech, LOL

2.  Yep, the JJ's are why.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nikodemius

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #10 on: 22 May 2024, 03:32:12 »
Thanks for All the effort yet..buuut ..

Im super sorry to say this / clarify..

But :

U need a 10 mech setup, with 15k Max BV2, where the mechs carry over damage from one scenario to another, but i forgot to mention :

U cant use any hero mech
U gotta Stick with the MUL availables for Cappies

So here is what i thought might be ok,but lacks very close range stuff/good Bodyguards maybe..

2x Awesome 8Q 3/5 (sadly cant afford 2/5)
2x Grasshopper 5N 3/5
2x Catapult C1 3/5
2x Vindi 1R 3/5
2x Raven 3L (Support for Cats) 4/5

I think these could be useful for either defending zones or attacking from open field.

U could go like, 1 Awesome sniper, 1 Cat boat Support, 1 Vindi Bodyguard or maybe a Grass instead, and a Raven for Cat Support.


Im in doubt if i should use 2 Awesomes and 2 Grass or replace 1 of each with something big for close Ranges, King Crab or Atlas maybe.. or swap 1 Vindi out for like a Hunch 4p for Bodyguard reasons

Id love To make the Awesome a 2/5 to ensure those 30dmg Hit, but its expensive :x

Well,lets See xD ..


Thanks @ both of you for your ideas yet


Hellraisers setup feels so awkward when ur simply sticking to the MUL availables for Cappies there, not taking too much care of the historical availables due to situational stuff / production wise

I guess u guys are FAR more Into BTs lore than i am, so i only simplify it down / while being not too much the Cappie, but i try at least due to MUL
« Last Edit: 22 May 2024, 04:22:56 by Nikodemius »

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3491
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #11 on: 22 May 2024, 10:07:38 »

Yeah, if you’re stuck with the MUL, that setup looks pretty good to me.

If you’re worried about not having enough close-range bullies/bodyguards, that’s what your Grasshoppers are.  And the Catapults can pull that duty, too.  Another option in this role would be the Victor -9B.  The Victor is not on the Cappie MUL but it is on the Inner Sphere (IS) General MUL, so the Cappies (and everyone else) have access to it.  (Although the Victor is nominally a FedRat design, I’m pretty sure the Cappies have sometimes had a Victor factory or two — they even upgraded the design later — and would also have Victor salvage from their border with the FedRats.)  The Victor -9B would give you an AC/20 boomstick with some medium laser and SRM backup on a reasonably armored 4/6/4 platform.

I’d still take the Grasshoppers over Victors because the Grasshoppers don’t have explodey ammo.  But I might trade out Vindicators for Victors if I have enough BV.  If you gotta have an AC/20, the Victor is probably the best platform because it has  some modest speed and jump mobility for bringing that short-range boomstick to bear.

It’s technically “Extinct” by the Late Succession Wars, but the Victor has a big brother called the Pillager -1N, which was available to the Cappies during the Star League Era.  Although dating back to the Star League and Reunification War, the Pillager is 100% Succession Wars tech.  If you can convince your GM/opponents, the Pillager lets you bring two AC/20 broomsticks with some backup medium lasers and SRMs on a maximally armored, 100-ton, 3/5/3 platform.  Again, it’s arguably a better platform for the AC/20 than the King Crab or Atlas because of its jump mobility, but you give up the (modest) long-range weaponry of those platforms.

Report back here and let us know how it goes!
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13386
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #12 on: 22 May 2024, 16:21:46 »
Hellraisers setup feels so awkward when ur simply sticking to the MUL availables for Cappies there, not taking too much care of the historical availables due to situational stuff / production wise

I guess u guys are FAR more Into BTs lore than i am, so i only simplify it down / while being not too much the Cappie, but i try at least due to MUL

Well, I mean, I guess I could load up on nothing but Heavy/Assault Zombies like the Awesome that isn't produced in the CC but some are left over from centuries ago.

But I figured a traditional 30%L-40%M-20%H-10%A would feel more like an actual Campaign & also give you something fast & mobile if you actually have Objectives compared to a slugfest fight till everyone is dead.

It also allowed for some much better pilots since you mentioned wanting above 4/5.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13386
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #13 on: 22 May 2024, 16:25:03 »
Cosara Weaponries has not been totally wiped out, at least before the Cappies lose Northwind in the 4th Succession WR.
Wiped out centuries ago.  Factory wasn't rebuilt till the 3050s.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13386
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #14 on: 22 May 2024, 16:34:40 »
(Although the Victor is nominally a FedRat design, I’m pretty sure the Cappies have sometimes had a Victor factory or two — they even upgraded the design later — and would also have Victor salvage from their border with the FedRats.)


I’d still take the Grasshoppers over Victors because the Grasshoppers don’t have explodey ammo. 

1.  Victor was only ever associated w/ the Suns because it was 1 of 3 Assaults they could produce in 3025 along w/ the Atlas & Longbow.
2.  The Cappies produce(d) it on 3 worlds at 1 point though I think in the era noted its down to 1, maybe 2.

3.  The 5N Hopper didn't appear till 3040 per the MUL, was originally from RS:Upgrades which was in 3060, but was backdated later IIRC.
The GrassHopper isn't even in production in the era noted, so, either the 5N is not available at the beginning of the campaign years, or, its a new field mod towards the end of the era the OP listed.  Either way, having it be the default go to heavy mech doesn't feel very "fluff supported"?
Grasshopper in a lance... Uncommon/Semi-Rare.     5N - Very Rare depending on the year.        A Pair/Lance of 5Ns.  =  So unlikely as to be "unique".
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nikodemius

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #15 on: 22 May 2024, 17:31:31 »
Ive put together another list and im now wondering

Awesomes, Grass, Cats, Vindis and Ravens
Or
2 Longbow 8C (1/4), 2 Grass, 2 Hunchs, 2 Ravens and i couldnt find 2 more mechs to fill up the missing 2 slots with low BV but Mongooses .. might aswell put Locusts there (Hunch for Bodyguard, Raven for LRM Support)

Which one do u guys think is (apart from fluff) the better choice?

Im kinda worried about the LB setup cause it feels like its missing capability to punch holes apart from big LRM swarms.

Ill keep u updated !
« Last Edit: 22 May 2024, 18:28:09 by Nikodemius »

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3491
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #16 on: 22 May 2024, 20:29:18 »

I’d stick with the Awesomes because they don’t have explodey ammo, especially since your mechs have to survive multiple engagements/games without repair.  Like the total munchkin company of mine upthread, you want as many zombie energy boats as possible within your MUL limits for this kind of campaign.

The Cats already lend the Ravens 60 LRMs-worth of indirect fire support.  The Ravens don’t have much firepower by themselves.  So the indirect fire from the Cats lets the Ravens use spotting to put the hurt on an opponent that they wouldn’t otherwise be able to while also doing their electronic warfare thing.  Sure, 160 LRMs would provide even more hurt from the Ravens, but I don’t think they need that much when it comes at the expense of the multi-game survivability of your assaults.

Be sure to look up the Ghost Targets optional rule in TacOps.  Will help your Ravens last longer if allowed.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13386
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #17 on: 22 May 2024, 21:11:25 »
By going "multiples" of everything your really missing out on versatility.

I don't know what your campaign is about.

Do you have Goals / Objectives / Different Scenarios?

You've got either 8 PPCs in 1 set up or only 2 in another....

You've got 60 LRMs v/s 100 LRMs, and each time its on the same movement profile. 

You've got nothing that can cross the map board in 2 turns really & nothing that can outpace your 4-6-4's with some 5/6 Jumpers.

Why not go for more singles & mix it up.   Create a deeper tool bag.

Awesome   (3 PPC,  3/5/0)
Longbow   (100 LRMs, 3/5/0)
Grasshopper   (MLs,  4/6/4)
Catapult   (60 LRMs, 4 ML, 4/6/4)
Vindicator   (PPC/ML/LRM,  4/6/4)
Hunchback   (AC20,  4/6/0)
Vulcan   (ML, MG/Flamer,  6/9/6)
Cicada   (PPC,  7/11/0)
Raven   (ML/SRM/EWj,  6/9/0)
Spider   (MLs,  8/12/8)
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nikodemius

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #18 on: 22 May 2024, 23:55:58 »
Yeah its gonna have different scenarios ^^

Hmm. Good point. Gives another thought ;)

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4276
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #19 on: 23 May 2024, 00:44:54 »
Are you sure about that date?

I thought it was the 4th SW that cost them anything over 70 tons.

Pretty sure St. Ives had Victor & LongBow production prior to the 4th SW, and IIRC, there was a note about Tikonov & Thugs somewhere.
I've been unable to find the exact quotes; my memory insists that there is a note somewhere in canon to the effect that the CapCon lost their last assault-class 'Mech factory (I want to say it was either Carver V or Sirius V) and after that couldn't build anything above 70 tons, which is why the Cataphract was designed to plug the holes in their lineup. And the Cataphract design goes back to 3015 which means the CapCon had lost its assault-class production capactiy before then. Dovetails into the fact that they also designed the Mauler around the same time but abandoned the design after "hand-building" just six prototypes.
The nearest thing I could find for now is the TRO:3039 writeup for the Cataphract where it says the CC could "almost" only build Vindicators ever since 2958.

Assault 'Mechs typically associated with the Capellan Confederation include the Highlander (there was a small factory on Corey that produced less than a dozen each year while it worked, and was occupied by the Free Worlds League for over a century) and the Longbow (ubiquituous as assault 'Mechs go but no known production inside the CC).

My take on it is that in the scavenger/refitting/refurbishing era of 3025 it is hard to nail down what even constitutes "production" or a "factory". The number and locations given for Capellan 'Mech factories in the late SW era fluctuates wildly. So they did have a number of assault 'Mechs, and for some of these had facilities that probably could rebuild scavenged wrecks. But the numbers were dwindling and they couldn't build all-new ones.
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins

Nikodemius

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #20 on: 23 May 2024, 04:23:01 »
How in the World does someone even know so much Details dude? XD

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3491
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #21 on: 23 May 2024, 10:51:44 »
Yeah its gonna have different scenarios ^^

Hellraiser is right that you need some variety if the scenarios will have some objectives other than kill-enemy-mechs.  Often this means grabbing something and getting it offboard safely or reaching the opposite map edge first.  And that usually means a speedy and/or jumpy mech or two with hand actuators.

And as I mentioned upthread, you also need to consider the type of opposition you’re facing.  Infantry, tanks, and aircraft are more easily killed by a somewhat different set of weapons than what kills mechs quickest.  If you know you’re facing unit types other than mechs, then pick some designs that can carry the relevant weapons or can deliver the relevant alternate ammo.

But if you do know that you’re only facing mechs and all the scenarios are just variations on kill-enemy-mechs, then you’re really best served by deploying as many zombie mechs with all-energy weapons (no ammo), reasonable to max armor, and decent mobility for their size as your MUL limits allow.  Awesome -8Q, Grasshopper -5N, etc.  Those are what kill enemy mechs best in the low-tech Succession Wars Era, and even more importantly for you, they’re what will survive the longest over multiple scenarios with no repairs in between.

Lastly, Hellraiser is also right that the Mad Max-light flavor of the Late Succession Wars is not to have duplicates (or more) of identical mechs in a lance or company.  (Maybe a couple identical Stingers or Wasps, at most.)  But if you and your GM/opposition don’t care about that, then I’d advise against diluting the strength of your formation with weaker mechs just for the sake of flavor.  Setting flavor aside and taking the scenario type and opposition type issues above into consideration, if you want to be as competitive in the game as possible, it’s best to double down (or more) on the best/good designs when you can.

FWIW...
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13386
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #22 on: 24 May 2024, 18:21:23 »
I've been unable to find the exact quotes; my memory insists that there is a note somewhere in canon to the effect that the CapCon lost their last assault-class 'Mech factory (I want to say it was either Carver V or Sirius V) and after that couldn't build anything above 70 tons, which is why the Cataphract was designed to plug the holes in their lineup. And the Cataphract design goes back to 3015 which means the CapCon had lost its assault-class production capactiy before then.

The nearest thing I could find for now is the TRO:3039 writeup for the Cataphract where it says the CC could "almost" only build Vindicators ever since 2958.

Assault 'Mechs typically associated with the Capellan Confederation include the Highlander (there was a small factory on Corey that produced less than a dozen each year while it worked, and was occupied by the Free Worlds League for over a century) and the Longbow (ubiquituous as assault 'Mechs go but no known production inside the CC).

My take on it is that in the scavenger/refitting/refurbishing era of 3025 it is hard to nail down what even constitutes "production" or a "factory".
 The number and locations given for Capellan 'Mech factories in the late SW era fluctuates wildly. So they did have a number of assault 'Mechs, and for some of these had facilities that probably could rebuild scavenged wrecks. But the numbers were dwindling and they couldn't build all-new ones.

1.  Yep, I know the quote from memory, I was just thinking it's from after the 4th SW, see below.
2.  St.Ives & Styk both produced Victors for the CC till the 4th SW.   St.Ives defected, Styk was trashed by retreating Cappies so the FS had to rebuild it over 2 decades.
3.  Carver was another Victor & the Atlas line for the CC & was destroyed in 2856.
4.  I'm vaguely recalling a factory notation on Sirius too, but IIRC it was destroyed in 2901 or later in battles between the FWL & CC.  (This might be the 2958 your quoting)
5.  I was wrong about Longbow, St.Ives brought that factory back on line for the Phoenix Variants but not 7Q production.
6.  Highlanders were originally from Fletcher, but it was destroyed, later, Corey got a license & started doing "rebuilding destroyed frames" on an individual basis which allowed the CC to keep it on their roster where most other nations it had gone extinct for the most part.     Post 4SW it was upgraded to new production, in the 3030s

« Last Edit: 24 May 2024, 18:27:57 by Hellraiser »
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13386
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #23 on: 24 May 2024, 18:25:57 »
How in the World does someone even know so much Details dude? XD

I can't speak for Frabby, but, I started reading BT in 1986.
My memory is also pretty good for things I've read multiple times.   (Gaming group jokes that the Human-TRO special pilot ability was made for me, lol)
Finally, when in doubt, a quick Sarna search can verify things, which is how I just realized the Longbow line on St.Ives was New-ish & not there in your era of play.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nikodemius

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #24 on: 25 May 2024, 04:18:51 »
Back to setup :

I have a feeling that the Spider is kinda made out of paper compared to stuff like Jenners or Javelins, i know that it probably is there for Quick capturing/grabbing stuff or crossing map fast, and with its 8 jumping its always hard to Hit

And i kinda cant cut off 1 grasshopper for a vulcan, seems like a not-worth downgrade since i think vulcan isnt a good Medium overall - and its just 500bv away from a 3/5 grasshopper, so..

I fear the other 3 players will just Stick to Picking the best / rare (not heros) mechs in each weight class.. like the DC Player is like, yeah ofc ill field a blackknight, jenner 7F and stuff

Maybe im just a bit intimidated by the knowledge that at least his picks, mech wise, are Set to be the "stronger" ones, buuuut.. lets See!

Ill have u guys know the complete campaign and Setups if ur curious, but 99% ill be running Hellraisers versatile setup, just without the vulcan / something else instead

Wish me luck :)

(I Managed to put the awesome and LB to 2/4 btw, pretty much else is 3/5 apart from the lights+cicada being 4/5s) .. i dont like dropping the assaults to 3 gunnery, Especially the awesome, cause it needs to Hit those 3 ppcs ;) ..) .. just cant Manage to get the grasshopper to 4 piloting since i think its gonna get heavyily damaged / prob much pilot checks while brawling..

Ah well, u cant have it all ;)

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13386
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #25 on: 25 May 2024, 10:25:46 »
And i kinda cant cut off 1 grasshopper for a vulcan, seems like a not-worth downgrade since i think vulcan isnt a good Medium overall - and its just 500bv away from a 3/5 grasshopper, so..

Ill have u guys know the complete campaign and Setups if ur curious, but 99% ill be running Hellraisers versatile setup, just without the vulcan / something else instead

FYI, I was talking about the Vulcan-5T w/ the 4MLs,  I don't think I clarified that.
That is a VERY different beast than the 2T & is quite good for bodyguarding any Spider/Jenner/Javelins/Raven, etc etc.

The Spider has less Armor than the Jenner/Javelins but again, 8 Jump & 12 Run gives you the ability to often remove LOS entirely.  Nothing like a +4 TMM & a hill in the way from most opponents to make staying alive a lot easier.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nikodemius

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #26 on: 25 May 2024, 10:56:05 »
Oh that one, didnt notice ^^
« Last Edit: 25 May 2024, 10:58:53 by Nikodemius »

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13386
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #27 on: 25 May 2024, 11:00:38 »
So last list of suggestions.

Code: [Select]
Mech/Model BV Skill Mod Tot BV
Longbow-8C 1,653 2*5 1.4 2314.2
Awesome-8Q 1,605 2*4 1.54 2471.7
Cataphract-1X 1,316 3*5 1.2 1579.2
Grasshopper-5N 1,511 3*4 1.32 1994.52
Catapult-C1 1,399 3*5 1.2 1678.8
Vindicator-1R 1,024 3*5 1.2 1228.8
Cicada-3C 771 3*5 1.2 925.2
Vulcan-5T 942 3*5 1.2 1130.4
Raven-3L 708 4*4 1.1 778.8
Mongoose-67 741 3*5 1.2 889.2
11,670 14,991
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13386
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #28 on: 25 May 2024, 11:06:22 »
I like this final list because it splits you into 3 "lines" basically.

Back Row = Longbow/Catapult

Battle Line = Awesome, Cataphract, Grasshopper, Vindicator

Deep Strike Force = Cicada, Vulcan, Raven, Mongoose

And inside that you have things like the Catapult, Grasshopper, Cicada, & Raven that can "shift up or back" a line as needed.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nikodemius

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: Help me do this! Your opinions or lists wanted
« Reply #29 on: 25 May 2024, 11:23:45 »
Awesome  (3 PPC,  3/5/0) 2/4 Skill
Longbow  (100 LRMs, 3/5/0) 2/4 Skill
Grasshopper  5N (PPC, MLs,  4/6/4) 3/4 Skill
Catapult C1  (60 LRMs, 4 ML, 4/6/4) 3/4 Skill
Vindicator  1R (PPC/ML/LRM,  4/6/4) 3/5 Skill
Hunchback 4P (MLs 4/6/0) 3/4 Skill
Vulcan 5T   (ML, MG/Flamer,  6/9/6) 3/5 Skill
Cicada   (PPC,  7/11/0) 3/5 Skill
Raven 3L   (ML/SRM/6/9/0) 4/5 Skill
Spider   (MLs,  8/12/8) 4/5 Skill

Was my last thought atm

I noticed the differnce is Hunchback out for Cataphract and Spider for Mongoose, wont have a far jumper then tho, but ofc the Mong can run far / is better armed.


Ill go with ur final list
« Last Edit: 25 May 2024, 11:32:19 by Nikodemius »

 

Register