Are NARC Beacons obsolete or do they still have their niche uses?

[Crow]

Does anyone still actively use NARC Beacons in their forces? Did you ever use them to great effect in your games? Tell us your stories!

I've noticed that one of the factors that may hamper the opinion of this weapon system is lack of good (maneuverable and durable) platforms to optimally deploy them.

I really want to make an missile-heavy SLDF force, but so many SL mechs use Artemis anyway, it's kind of a turn-off. And the best (only?) NARC toting units until 3050 where the Kintaro and the Ahab, which aren't the most ideal.

[Empyrus]

Just as with anything electronic, commonplace ECM ruins it. (I regard ECCM a bit too complex to be a good solution.)

I am a Cappie so Narc's are standard since Ravens carry it. But it is extremely situational thanks to ECM proliferation.

Strictly speaking i actually prefer Narc to Artemis IV because it is much more weight efficient (one unit pays few tons vs multiple units paying 1 ton per launcher and losing indirect fire option) and allows indirect fire without spotter.

[Weirdo]

Are you playing Royal SLDF or Regular Army? That can make a big difference as to how much Artemis you see in your mechs. NARC works best as a way to boost lots of mechs with normal missile racks.

Even Artemis units can benefit from NARC, if they have a ton or so to spare in their ammo bins. As Empyrus says, being able to do IDF shots without a spotter is loads of fun.

People look at the NARC and assume that the only proper way to use it is to put it on something superfast and start popping pods from turn one. The Ahab certainly works here. However, that's not the only way to use it. Talk up your NARC, make sure your opponent knows what you can do with it, and what units are carrying it. Once they know enough that they decide they don't want to be NARCed, you can use a NARC unit to affect how they'll move. Once you figure out if he's going to move to avoid NARCs or move to quickly kill those units, you can use that knowledge as a psychological weapon, shaping how they move to your advantage.

[Sartris]

it's available on such a small number that it's really easy to forget about.

I got the most mileage out of NARC in games where I had a mixed-tech force that included a lot of introtech missile boats.

[Alsadius]

Narc seems like one of those techs that's really designed for use by custom factions. If you're building a force from the ground up, then focusing on Narc can be pretty good - one Narc unit per lance is less mass investment than Artemis for any force that's even moderately missile-heavy, and it's still enough to effectively Narc everything. But whether you use Narc, the semi-guided/TAG combination, or solo units(i.e., Artemis/Streak/non-enhanced), you want your force to all be doing the same thing. And given that no canon unit is serious about Narc, that means you don't want to use it outside of customized forces.

(Also, why do Clanners get Narc? It's totally out of place - it's a very IS sort of weapon.)

[Weirdo]

(Also, why do Clanners get Narc? It's totally out of place - it's a very IS sort of weapon.)

Because pirates, bunkers, conventional vehicles, civilians, spheroids, so-called warriors who can't really be because they're from a different Clan as you, and other targets unworthy of honorable combat still exist. The Warrior of today is extremely busy, NARC and similar weapons are for when you're in a hurry and don't have time to rub into their faces just how superior you are. :)

[Sir Chaos]

Eh... NARC, iNARC, Artemis... I don´t really use any of that stuff. Artemis, if I have to, but if I cannot get around using a unit with NARC/iNARC, I stuff the ammo bins with explosive rounds.

[massey]

I basically never use NARC.  When I'm playing someone in person, we usually play 3025.  When I'm playing Megamek with 3050 tech or later, I usually want to go with larger forces that I can't really play on the tabletop.  At that point, I kind of rush through tactical decisions because I'm maneuvering an entire company or more.  I don't always move perfectly, don't always make the best firing decisions, etc, because I'm trying to finish the game in a reasonable time.

But NARC does have its uses.  The best thing about NARC is that it gives Introtech mechs a nice little edge.  It's a cheap upgrade for a lot of second line troops.  You should be able to retrofit the launcher onto a normal mech pretty easily.  Swap out an SRM-6 on a light mech and there you go.  C3 systems would be the same.  Yank a medium laser, stick in a slave unit.  Yank a large laser on another mech, stick in a master.  You don't have to upgrade your whole force, just 3 or 4 mechs linked together become (potentially) much more powerful in the right situation, for not that many C-Bills.

Say you've got a company of 3025 designs, and here's a lance level C3 system, a NARC beacon, and some missiles that use it.  Stick your NARC in something fast and light, like a Javelin.  Its job is to stay mobile and hit the enemy's slow movers.  Stick a slave in something that likes close-range, like a Hunchback.  Two more slaves in missile boats, like Crusaders or Archers.  And put your master in something that sucks anyway, like a Vulcan.  Fight like normal, but have your missile boats positioned to shoot at whatever the Hunchback moves in on.  And he moves to engage something that has already been NARCed.  A move like that will ruin somebody's day.  Big LRMs firing at short range (with no minimums) and getting a +2 on the missile chart?  After a big AC has fired?  That's a lot of benefit for a minimum amount of new tech.  If I was a company commander, I'd be racing to install tech like that.

Background-wise, NARC would be one of the big reasons why militaries were forced to install so many ECM suites.  It's the technological equivalent of a cheap shot.  It's not that hard to counter, but you have to make sure you account for it or some jackass is going to hit you with it.

[garhkal]

Narc seems like one of those techs that's really designed for use by custom factions. If you're building a force from the ground up, then focusing on Narc can be pretty good - one Narc unit per lance is less mass investment than Artemis for any force that's even moderately missile-heavy, and it's still enough to effectively Narc everything. But whether you use Narc, the semi-guided/TAG combination, or solo units(i.e., Artemis/Streak/non-enhanced), you want your force to all be doing the same thing. And given that no canon unit is serious about Narc, that means you don't want to use it outside of customized forces.

Agreed.  Narc just like Artemis is one of those things that can be helpful, but only when used properly (meaning all are on board)..
BUT as Empyrus said, ECM does tend to make both less useful..

[Weirdo]

If you're going missile-heavy anyway, make sure your force has a few tons of ARAD missiles handy to but some fast hurt on ECM units. Then your NARCs and Artemis will work just fine. :)

[TigerShark]

(Also, why do Clanners get Narc? It's totally out of place - it's a very IS sort of weapon.)

It's out of place with peoples' misconceptions of Clan warfare. In anything but a smaller engagement (Trinary-sized or less), they'll disregard zellbrigen. Or if they deem an opponent not worthy of the respect (Steel Viper v Jade Falcon), if it's strategically important for them to break with single combat (Cal Jorgensson v Nicholas Kerensky), or if ordered to do so by their Star Colonel.

Basically, if a Clan warrior can't brag by beating you, they're not going to bother with zellbrigen. So NARC, Artillery, etc. really doesn't seem so far-fetched if you think along those lines. A good example might be a Cluster issuing a Trial for an important factory complex. The factory is more important to the Clan than their personal honor, so the conflict is likely be fought in a very "Spheroid-like" manner after the batchall is concluded. At that point, use all of the NARC you'd like. It would still probably be relegated to a vehicle of some sort (since it's seen as backwater duty to be support personnel), but that doesn't mean a Star wouldn't load up on NARC-equipped missiles and take advantage of it. (example: Battle of Glory Station, Wolf Clan v Kael Pershaw for the Pershaw genetic legacy)

[Sartris]

Eh... NARC, iNARC, Artemis... I don´t really use any of that stuff. Artemis, if I have to, but if I cannot get around using a unit with NARC/iNARC, I stuff the ammo bins with explosive rounds.

haywire pods

[Nightsong]

I love NARCs, especially with the indirect fire rule added in Total Warfare. Teaming a fast narcer with a lance of LRM carriers under heavy cover (walls, heavy woods, cliffs, etc) is punishing as heck, as you can rain 240 LRMs on your target with nigh impunity.

[truetanker]

Every seen A War of the Worlds?

Remember the Martian Tripods that moved amongst the buildings firing away at the tanks?

Just think of the Stalker-5M's doing the same, NARCing everything for their buddies in the back!

TT

[RoundTop]

Remember the opening to mechcommander? Imagine tthe raven hit the timber wolf with a narc. Then swarms of lens coming over the buildings to land on it. That is what narc can do (and tag+semi guided, but not quite the same)

[TigerShark]

The problem still persists that the SLDF has no viable courier for the NARC beacon itself. It SHOULD be on a fast-moving, backstabbing unit like the Cyrano, Condor Heavy Hover Tank, Hermes, etc. Instead, it's on a slow-as-heck, 5/8 platform that's going to get shot up LONG before it tags even a single unit. But that's really the Star League era in a nutshell -- Incomplete.
I'd say it's missing a lot of other units, too. Fast-moving TAG spotters, anything with a Retractable Blade, Booby Trap units (the Hipparch "Hellhorse" is the only one I can think of in canon), etc.

[Weirdo]

Isn't there a Zephyr with a NARC, or an I sleep-deprived?

Here's a question: You're going to play a game, and are resolved or even required by a scenario to bring NARC. Moreover, either due to unit availability or some other condition, you know that your NARC platform will be 6/9 at the fastest, this isn't something you have a choice about.

How do you employ it, when so many folks insist that NARC is useless unless carried by a superfast unit?

[TigerShark]

Isn't there a Zephyr with a NARC, or an I sleep-deprived?

Here's a question: You're going to play a game, and are resolved or even required by a scenario to bring NARC. Moreover, either due to unit availability or some other condition, you know that your NARC platform will be 6/9 at the fastest, this isn't something you have a choice about.

How do you employ it, when so many folks insist that NARC is useless unless carried by a superfast unit?

Yes, there is definitely a Zephyr with NARC. But it's a Royal, so it's unlikely that many trickled down into the Member States.

As far as tactics, I would probably use the Kintaro (the only 'Mech with NARC until 2872) as a skirmisher or line 'Mech, standing a good 10 hexes in front of my LRM units as they advance. He'd have to plink away with the NARC launcher and spread Thunder mines with his LRM-5 (or LRM-15 for the Royal), in concert with the other units. Try to separate a target from the pack with area denial then pick it apart.

If it's urban, he'd probably be an ambush unit, sitting inside of a 60+ CF building, waiting to screw with one or more units. In a forest, you can have him further ahead of the pack. Maybe parked in some heavy woods, spotting for missile units until he connects with a pod. But in open terrain... just running for +3 and backing up for a +2 is about as good as you can do. Just hope the beacon hits "something" worth targeting.

The weapon system really needed to be what iNARC was later: Grant a flat, -1 to-hit bonus and negate the need for a spotter. At that point, it would be VERY scary, turning an entire Lance of Longbows and Archers into 3 gunners in the snap of a finger. As it is now... ::shrug::

[garhkal]

If you're going missile-heavy anyway, make sure your force has a few tons of ARAD missiles handy to but some fast hurt on ECM units. Then your NARCs and Artemis will work just fine. :)

What launchers can fire Arads though?  I forget. :-[

[Nightsong]

How do you employ it, when so many folks insist that NARC is useless unless carried by a superfast unit?

I don't think it's so much useless when not carried by a fast unit so much as wanting to take advantage of them as soon as possible, so wanting to get pods on targets as fast as possible.

[SCC]

If you're going missile-heavy anyway, make sure your force has a few tons of ARAD missiles handy to but some fast hurt on ECM units. Then your NARCs and Artemis will work just fine. :)

While the rules on ARAD and (i)Narc interaction are, shall we say open to debate and the rulings somewhat confusing, I'm pretty sure that ARAD can home in on Narc beacons inside hostile ECM fields, so if you've got an Atlas escorted by a Raven and want to take out the Atlas first, go ahead and put a beacon on it. Things beyond that are rather hazy.

[Weirdo]

Yes, there is definitely a Zephyr with NARC. But it's a Royal, so it's unlikely that many trickled down into the Member States.

That's what those ungrateful provincials get for breaking off from the Terrans. ;)

What launchers can fire Arads though?  I forget. :-[

LRMs. I think SRMs too, but don't hold me to that.

While the rules on ARAD and (i)Narc interaction are, shall we say open to debate and the rulings somewhat confusing, I'm pretty sure that ARAD can home in on Narc beacons inside hostile ECM fields, so if you've got an Atlas escorted by a Raven and want to take out the Atlas first, go ahead and put a beacon on it. Things beyond that are rather hazy.

Since you were confused, logic dictates that you have already asked on the Rules Forum. What did they say?

[garhkal]

LRMs. I think SRMs too, but don't hold me to that.

Copy that...

[Kit deSummersville]

How do you employ it, when so many folks insist that NARC is useless unless carried by a superfast unit?

Send in the assaults, including some with NARCs (such as those Stalkers) with LRM support behind it.
Or send in the heavies with some slightly faster NARC machines mixed in and LRM support following. You want to ignore the Thunderbolt to hit the Kintaro with a higher move mod? Okay, you have to pick your poison.

[Empyrus]

Narc use:
Line advance, with some Narc carriers in the mix. Should the enemy come close, it gets Narced and everyone with LRMs will suddenly have a no-brainer target. Ideally there's a second line with more LRM carriers as well.
The Narc is not spotter weapon per se, rather it is a defensive weapon, as i see it.
IF i happen to get someone behind the enemies and tag them with Narc, OK, i can make use of that. But that is a secondary use, and one that isn't really usable since i can't think of any actually fast Narc carriers (my lovely Ravens aren't fast enough). ('Mech ones, that is.)

Artemis IV suffers from that it removes LRM's ability to use indirect fire, and turns LRMs into direct fire weapons. At that point, i reckon it would be just better to convert the 'Mech into a PPC or AC carrier.
For SRMs, Artemis IV is better because it enhances them without removing anything but once Streaks are around... well, Streaks are a better option overall, and immune to non-Angel ECM as well unlike Artemis.

[Weirdo]

Artemis does not prohibit LRMs from firing indirect, you just don't get the Artemis bonus when doing so.

[Empyrus]

Artemis does not prohibit LRMs from firing indirect, you just don't get the Artemis bonus when doing so.

I keep forgetting that... but i think that's because i think the Artemis really is waste of tonnage if i use indirect fire in a 'Mech with Artemis-enhanced launchers.

With a Narc carrier in my unit, i can just load Narc-missiles as standard and not worry about not wasting tonnage on stuff.

[Charistoph]

Artemis does not prohibit LRMs from firing indirect, you just don't get the Artemis bonus when doing so.

It would probably be better phrased that it removes the desire to fire LRMs indirectly.

[Weirdo]

I don't see how it does. So you don't get a fancy bonus, you can still IDF just as well as any other LRM boat out there. It's not like there's anything that penalizes you for firing indirect.

[Empyrus]

I don't see how it does. So you don't get a fancy bonus, you can still IDF just as well as any other LRM boat out there. It's not like there's anything that penalizes you for firing indirect.

Losing benefit's from ton's worth of equipment. Multiple tons, usually, if firing multiple launchers.
Also figure that Artemis kinda discourages use of alternate munitions more so than Narc beacons do, again because of the Artemis benefit being tied to that module and launcher.
I don't feel bad about using Narc-equipped ammo shots against non-Narced targets, because my 'Mechs didn't pay any extra for the Narc launcher.

I don't know. Maybe i'm just a weird player in that i don't like the Artemis IV.
The Narc i like because it offers that no-spotter option, and my Star League and Capellan forces both have Narc carriers anyway (the Kintaro and Raven). Heck, my FedCom unit might have one too, think i assigned a Raven to them as well.

[TigerShark]

I don't know. Maybe i'm just a weird player in that i don't like the Artemis IV.

You're not alone. Artemis IV (not V.... IV) sucks. Especially in the early era, where the SLDF thought 1 Artemis FCS = 1 ton of ammo. So you have a lot of launchers that are underfed (see the Rhino) to the point of making the design nearly useless when balancing by BV. I'd rather have an extra ton of ammo, more than any Artemis IV FCS.

[Hellraiser]

The problem with getting a NARC on any sort of fast platform is the size of the NARC itself.

I mean, honestly, a minimum of 4 tons on something that only has 6 tons for Guns total is quite the investment.

I'd still love to see it on more platforms regardless.


Obvious platforms where it would shine some.

SLDF Era or Later
Javelin, Jenner, Assassin, Phoenix Hawk, Wolverine, Crusader, Titan
Cyrano, Pegasus, Maxim


Clan Invasion or Later
Raptor-O, Strider-O, Firestarter-O, Menshen-O, BlackHawk-KU-O,
Harasser, Cavalry, Plainsman, Saracen, Drillson, Bandit-O, JES-I, Manteuffel-O


Its not much, less than 2 dozen platforms, but I think if even 1/2 of them were given a solid NARC variant it would drastically improve the selection of NARC options out there.

[grimlock1]

BA NARC offers a lot of potential nasty.

[Empyrus]

The problem with getting a NARC on any sort of fast platform is the size of the NARC itself.

I mean, honestly, a minimum of 4 tons on something that only has 6 tons for Guns total is quite the investment.

Only if you want to sneak behind enemies and tag them so.
While i am a Capellan who appreciates such tactics, i'm too much of a Star Leaguer (or a Lyran or FWL admirer subconsciously) and i'm inclined to use wall of steel tactics... My Raven will walk along side my slower 'Mechs and tag enemies who come too close.

You're right in that the game could use fast (8/12 speed or so)'Mechs with Narc beacons though. If for nothing else than offering that option.

[Sartris]

BA NARC offers a lot of potential nasty.

I've always eyed the NARC BA with interest but I've never been in a situation where I got to try them

[Empyrus]

A problem with BA Narc is that only few types of BAs come with it.
Two of them are Blakist suits, the Purifier and Nephilim, though the Purifier does get use by the Republic of the Sphere.
The others are the Oni (Drac exclusive) but it trades its attack capability for Narc, and the Grenadier that is FedSuns exclusive.

For Blakists, i can see myself using Purifier. Otherwise... eh...
Wish there were other options, preferably something that isn't an assault-class suit and something that also mounts some weapons along with the BA Narc.

[garhkal]

Losing benefit's from ton's worth of equipment. Multiple tons, usually, if firing multiple launchers.
Also figure that Artemis kinda discourages use of alternate munitions more so than Narc beacons do, again because of the Artemis benefit being tied to that module and launcher.
I don't feel bad about using Narc-equipped ammo shots against non-Narced targets, because my 'Mechs didn't pay any extra for the Narc launcher.

I don't know. Maybe i'm just a weird player in that i don't like the Artemis IV.
The Narc i like because it offers that no-spotter option, and my Star League and Capellan forces both have Narc carriers anyway (the Kintaro and Raven). Heck, my FedCom unit might have one too, think i assigned a Raven to them as well.

If one or two units in a group are LRM boats, with say 2-3 LRM 20s or 15s each, I personally prefer artemis on both mechs..  Now if say 5+ mechs are LRM boats, then yes having 1-2 narc units is a lot better..

The problem with getting a NARC on any sort of fast platform is the size of the NARC itself.

Plus with Narc you have to HIT with it, and need 1-2 other units sporting the launcher in your team.  If they get taken out, you've wasted the funds for the 'narc capable' ammo..

[Luciora]

Maybe the NARC should have been the tonnage of the SRM-4 and maybe 8 shots instead?

[Charistoph]

If one or two units in a group are LRM boats, with say 2-3 LRM 20s or 15s each, I personally prefer artemis on both mechs..  Now if say 5+ mechs are LRM boats, then yes having 1-2 narc units is a lot better..

Or a few LRM Carriers?

[Empyrus]

Amusing side thing: i was reading TRO 2750 and noticed that the original Narc worked a bit differently. The Narc bonus applied only to 'Mechs with the Narc beacon.

In any following Combat Phase, any successful missile attacks by a Narc-equipped unit...

Additionally, the cost of missiles for a Narc-equipped unit is doubled...

It is possible the intent was the thing would work like it does now but if so, they certainly didn't write the rules carefully. RAW, as i understand them, do not refer to Narc-compatible missiles like things nowadays do.
Of course, there are other differences in the tech rules as presented in the book. The Gauss Rifle functions normally, with no mentions about the weapon being explosive. XL engines can't be used for ASFs or vehicles. And some other things

[Alsadius]

If Narcs only worked for Narc-equipped units, they're worse than Artemis in basically every way - short range, no coordination with allies, and it's heavier. Outside of maybe a SRM carrier, it'd be madness to use one. That was good errata.

[Empyrus]

Indeed. I suspect the intent was what it would be later on, that anyone with Narc-equipped missiles getting the bonus, its just that writing wasn't particularly careful.
Original BT rules have some other weirdness too, such as jump jets not caring about height of objects you'd be about to go over unlike nowadays (mostly a logical issue rather than a gameplay one). Don't think FASA was ever particularly careful about this stuff.

[Sir Chaos]

For SRMs, Artemis IV is better because it enhances them without removing anything but once Streaks are around... well, Streaks are a better option overall, and immune to non-Angel ECM as well unlike Artemis.

"Once Streaks are around"? Are they ever not around when Artemis IV is?

IMHO, Artemis IV on SRM is pointless; the extra mass is better invested in larger/more launchers (which have the benefit of cheaper, more readily available ammo) or conversion to Streak SRM (which has the benefit of lower ammo cost because fewer shots are used). And neither of these alternatives are in any way affected by ECM, unlike Artemis IV.

[Empyrus]

"Once Streaks are around"? Are they ever not around when Artemis IV is?

IMHO, Artemis IV on SRM is pointless; the extra mass is better invested in larger/more launchers (which have the benefit of cheaper, more readily available ammo) or conversion to Streak SRM (which has the benefit of lower ammo cost because fewer shots are used). And neither of these alternatives are in any way affected by ECM, unlike Artemis IV.

Once larger Streaks are around*.
Strictly speaking 3xSSRM-2 is better than single SSRM-6 because you can probably hit with some missiles at least. It is just annoying to build 'Mechs with small Streaks, they take a bit more space (a problem when all weight saving techs are used). Plus canon designs tend to use SSRM-2s with too much ammo, while designs mounting an SRM-6 with Artemis or Streak SRM-6 tend to be properly supplied.

Lets put it this way. If my 'Mech options have SSRM-2s, SRM-6 with AIV, or LRM with AIV, i'm inclined to pick SRM-6 with AIV of those.
If you throw in LRMs without AIV, i'll take that, especially if i can get a Narc beacon from somewhere as well.
Obviously 2xSRM-4 is better option than SRM-6 with AIV.

[garhkal]

Maybe the NARC should have been the tonnage of the SRM-4 and maybe 8 shots instead?

I'd be down with shunting a Narc launcher to being akin to an SRM 4 with special ammo (so 12 shots a ton vice 25)..

[Iceweb]

(Also, why do Clanners get Narc? It's totally out of place - it's a very IS sort of weapon.)

If my memory is correct, Aidan Pryde did just fine in a duel (I think) for his bloodname in a Summoner with LRMs and Narc. 
He used jets to close quickly tagging the other guy with a pod, and then jumped out to pelt his opponent with LRM salvos. 
Given the lighter weight of clan LRMs it might have made sense to use the narc instead. 

But really the fluff ability of Narc to guide in every single homing warhead to the target is so much better than the in game effect. 

Also if you are willing to custom you can make a nice VTOL with 2 srm6 launchers and a narc in 3055 to do your podding. 
I am shocked that such a vehicle was never made in the cannon books for common use.

[Empyrus]

The Clans aren't big on Narcs. They can use them... but their use in duels is limited, used as Aidan Pryde did, and elsewhere it is a bit lowly job, to tag enemies and let others to finish them off.

A bit weird they actually bother maintaining those really. For some reason cloaking systems like Chameleon LPS are big no no, but team-work oriented equipment are ultimately used to an extent. Guess the pragmatic voices were strong enough to let them keep this stuff.

[Kit deSummersville]

Well, remember that winning without honor is better than losing with honor.

[Empyrus]

Indeed, hence i wonder why not just use CLPS and Null Sig systems. If the enemy can't see me, it is their fault they're genetically inferior and blind...

(Seriously, i suspect the thing is that the Clans saw those systems way too complex to be resource effective. And perhaps their leaders were afraid...)


Interestingly, it seems the Inner Sphere has exactly twice as many 'Mechs with Narc as the Clans: 22 vs 11 (33 total).

[RoundTop]

NARC units (Note: not iNARC, multiple variants listed separately):

IS: 22 mechs (11 different), 5 vehicles
Clan: 11 mechs (10 different), 1 vehicle

Of special note, the Strider 0A mounts 2 NARC launchers. The only unit to mount 2.

[Sartris]

I'm surprised there was never a VTOL variant royal or otherwise that employed a NARC launcher

[garhkal]

I'm surprised there was never a VTOL variant royal or otherwise that employed a NARC launcher

How's about this!
Edited out fan made design.

Check this thread
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=60965.0

[Weirdo]

Fan designs belong in which forum again? C:-)

[Kit deSummersville]

Fan designs belong in which forum again? C:-)

Reddit!

[Weirdo]

Well, you're not wrong... :)

[glitterboy2098]

I question the validity of the conventional fan wisdom that Narc should be on fast movers.. in my experience, fast movers are far too fragile to use as a Narc'er. the existance of the Narc system on one makes it a fire magnet, no matter how much it evades or is screened by non-Narc'ing units. given the limited range of the Narc system, that makes trying to pull off narcing with a fast mover a suicide mission.

i've had the most success with the Narc toting unit being slower moving line of battle heavies, where they can weather incoming fire long enough to narc more than one or two units. just stick the Narc'ers with your battle lance, and then have an LRM heavy fire support lance advancing behind taking advantage of the Narc bonuses to lay down the damage.

[TigerShark]

I question the validity of the conventional fan wisdom that Narc should be on fast movers.. in my experience, fast movers are far too fragile to use as a Narc'er. the existance of the Narc system on one makes it a fire magnet, no matter how much it evades or is screened by non-Narc'ing units. given the limited range of the Narc system, that makes trying to pull off narcing with a fast mover a suicide mission.

i've had the most success with the Narc toting unit being slower moving line of battle heavies, where they can weather incoming fire long enough to narc more than one or two units. just stick the Narc'ers with your battle lance, and then have an LRM heavy fire support lance advancing behind taking advantage of the Narc bonuses to lay down the damage.

So a 4/6 being a fire magnet survives longer than a 12/18 speed VTOL? Maybe on your table. :)

Depends on the size of the playing field and the terrain, as well. But I can't imagine a scenario where a 4/6 is far enough ahead of other 4/6 and 3/5 units that it can NARC something and benefit an entire Lance behind it. Especially in a case where IDF is the preferred tactic.

Assuming your illustrative army is facing an equal-BV force, that's 2 opposing Lances firing into 1 Lance of line 'Mechs as they move into short range to tag something with a NARC pod. With fire support straggling behind in Medium or Long range?

I'd take that scenario any day of the week. That NARC unit would be dust before it did very much.

[Iceweb]

To add to what TigerShark said, there is nothing wrong with a cheap disposable fast Narcer with good ejection seats. 
Since it is cheap you take a lance of them instead of just a single one. 
You might be able to throw up enough anti air to stop a single VTOL or hover with a launcher but can you stop 4 of them before I can tag a few targets? 
If you have enough anti air to do so I am not so worried about your capability to take out my launcher meks, and the occasional Narc equipped Stalker or Kintaro can pod what is needed. 

Narc is a force multiplier so make sure you have enough forces to use it properly. 

[Luciora]

I'm surprised that NARC wasn't a straight field swap for many SRM-6 toting mechs in universe considering most of them would be in well supported lances or units that could take advantage of the compatible warheads, like a Javelin, Commando, Whitworth, (Trebuchet has a NARC loadout already) Hunchback, to name a few.

[Hellraiser]

I'm surprised there was never a VTOL variant royal or otherwise that employed a NARC launcher

Agreed, or even a Warrior or Cavalry variant in later years.

I'm surprised that NARC wasn't a straight field swap for many SRM-6 toting mechs in universe considering most of them would be in well supported lances or units that could take advantage of the compatible warheads, like a Javelin, Commando, Whitworth, (Trebuchet has a NARC loadout already) Hunchback, to name a few.

This is what I was talking about above.
What the Treb really needs is an upgrade of the 5S/7M = 7S where you use SRMs & NARC.

[garhkal]

So a 4/6 being a fire magnet survives longer than a 12/18 speed VTOL? Maybe on your table. :)

Depends on the size of the playing field and the terrain, as well. But I can't imagine a scenario where a 4/6 is far enough ahead of other 4/6 and 3/5 units that it can NARC something and benefit an entire Lance behind it. Especially in a case where IDF is the preferred tactic.

Assuming your illustrative army is facing an equal-BV force, that's 2 opposing Lances firing into 1 Lance of line 'Mechs as they move into short range to tag something with a NARC pod. With fire support straggling behind in Medium or Long range?

I'd take that scenario any day of the week. That NARC unit would be dust before it did very much.

Many heavies can do a 5/8 move, and have armor to get into range to put the narc to use..  Or even go with a 6/9/6 medium..

[truetanker]

Narcs are great, just remember that you can use them to supplement your physicals!

Armless or even handless mechs can't remove Narcs! (+2) And if you fire at one with hands, remember to get into physical fast to stop them from attempting to detaching said Narc round! Now that stop, drop and roll could possible help, but would they in a combat turn, with it's own PSR set!

TT

[Empyrus]

Only iNarc pods can be removed.

[Talen5000]

I'm surprised that NARC wasn't a straight field swap for many SRM-6 toting mechs in universe considering most of them would be in well supported lances or units that could take advantage of the compatible warheads, like a Javelin, Commando, Whitworth, (Trebuchet has a NARC loadout already) Hunchback, to name a few.

I'm not.

To me...NARC has always been one of those items that were overbalanced.

Heavy...short ranged...the same bonus as Artemis IV.

It makes sense in universe.....you have a couple of NARC machines rather than refit the entire force with Artemis IV; you just ship in NARC seekers.

But the NARC system itself is too limited to be truly attractive in a gaming environment. Not saying NARC can't be used successfully or doesn't have a place, but it doesn't do enough to make it attractive over other options.

[glitterboy2098]

Many heavies can do a 5/8 move, and have armor to get into range to put the narc to use..  Or even go with a 6/9/6 medium..

Pretty much. But even slower stuff like an orion or stalker advancing with three other assaults or heavies at its shoulders is going to be able hang in combat long enough to get a pod on all the targets.. Plus they have the firepower that the narc pod is often ignored.. Until the massed lrm volleys from the archers or catapults come in.
But something like a raven or strider is just going to be given disproportionate attention because that Narc is pretty much the only threat it has, and it doesn't have the toughness to survive getting in close enough.

[Alsadius]

Narc isn't great in lance-scale combat, and only really comes into its own at the company scale or larger. Most people don't play company scale, and when they do it's often not purpose-built formations that can take advantage of it. If you have a few Artemis systems kicking around on the mechs you scrounged(which you probably will, because it's super-common), would you really bother trying to re-equip for Narc?

[Crow]

It has occurred to me that one might load smoke rounds into the LRM5 of the Kintaro, allowing it to cover its approach and retreat. So the design might not be as bad as it appears. Still, I wish it had MASC...

[Hellraiser]

Narc isn't great in lance-scale combat, and only really comes into its own at the company scale or larger. Most people don't play company scale,

So true here.

Using tanks as the example.

A mixed Platoon of Zephyr-Regular/Royal or Drillsons + Scimitar-3050 depending on the era teamed up with a Platoon of LRM Carriers & 3rd Platoon of Manticores makes for a nasty support group.


Using Mechs.....   I love the 3039 Jenner-Grace as a NARC Spotter, but a Hitman/Owens also works.  (Kurita has the best spotters for NARC IMHO)
But take 2-3 of those in a Light lance escorted by Pixie(s) &/or a Spider/Raptor.

Then for your LRM big boys you use Archers, Longbows, Crusaders, etc etc.
Finally a midsized lance centered around Griffins, Whitworths, Centurions & Wolverines for a solid mix of speed/range/firepower.

Only a few of the chassis even need to be Upgraded tech, most can still be L1 models.  But you'll rain down LRMs all day with increased accuracy.


It doesn't work quite as well when trying to do that with only a single lance.

Maybe the above Jenner/Owens with a 3050 Treb for backup Narc,  then support them with 3025 Catapult & Longbow.  Should make for solid mix but it just doesn't have the same feel w/o being a full company.

[mbear]

Question: Can ELRMs use Narc-compatible ammo?

[Sartris]

No specialty ammo unfortunately

[CDAT]

No specialty ammo unfortunately

And this is is why I am not a fan of any of them, I know that you can use specialty ammo with Artemis IV, you just lose the bonus. But why spend the tonnage if you are not going to use it. As for NARC when it is around so is ECM, and I just find it not worth it.

[Empyrus]

The Narc is arguably more forgiving with ECM than the Artemis IV. For one thing, only one 'Mech pays the weight. And SRMs and LRMs with Narc homing work normally in absence of Narc beacons, so you're not losing anything loading them even if it is unlikely you'll get use of them. So, what you do is that you Narc enemies (costs zero heat so you're not losing anything by firing it), and then you get the bonus should an enemy leave ECM area or otherwise lose ECM (assuming you got ammo left).

Alternatively, the 'Mech with Narc launcher loads it with explosive pods should you expect ECM from the enemy. It is not an ideal weapon but it is better than having completely wasted tonnage like Artemis IV would be in ECM heavy game.

[Sir Chaos]

Alternatively, the 'Mech with Narc launcher loads it with explosive pods should you expect ECM from the enemy. It is not an ideal weapon but it is better than having completely wasted tonnage like Artemis IV would be in ECM heavy game.

It´s a single 4 point hit from a weapon that weights 3 tons plus ammo. It´s a joke. At least with Artemis IV, you don´t kid yourself into thinking it´s worth anything in an ECM environment.

[Weirdo]

If you suspect you'll be facing lots of ECM, bring ARADs. Kill the ECM(or scare the other guy into turning it off), then your NARC and Artemis works just fine.

[Empyrus]

It´s a single 4 point hit from a weapon that weights 3 tons plus ammo. It´s a joke. At least with Artemis IV, you don´t kid yourself into thinking it´s worth anything in an ECM environment.

The point was, if there's ECM around (and experimental tech is out of question so no ARADs like Weirdo suggests), enough you can't get rid of it, then you might as well load the Narc with explosive pods if one or more of your 'Mechs have Narc launchers for whatever reason.
Using them is not waste if you're having that tonnage in the first place. Artemis can't be repurposed, so it is worse here.

[Col Toda]

I do not like them at all . I preffer TAG more versatile. I have Never seen NARC used with enough efficacy to justify ever using it. After 3068 ECM is so common ARAAD missile ammo is just more efficient.

[Hellraiser]

Okay,  I have to ask.

In a typical battle..... say 8 v 8 ...  Exactly how many ECM are you seeing on the battlefield?

Short of a boatload of Custom units I don't see that much.

Sure, you get the occasional game where ECM is massive, I saw a GM force once that through luck had like 3-5 of them in less than a company of units, but most games I see 0-2 per side.

The only time I pick units specifically for the ECM is when I am also using C3 & want to protect the network and even then its not every unit but usually 1 around the spotters & 1-2 near the masters.

I find NARC quite useful even with some ECM as it only effects if the target is covered since the missiles reacquire after passing through the bubble.

From a BV standpoint its also cheaper than fielding ECM

[Weirdo]

Concur. 0-2 seems to be the average I see as well, though to be fair C3 doesn't see very common use in our games either. If more people used C3 on a regular basis, I'd probably see folks choose units for their ECM, instead of ECM being a happy accident.

[Sartris]

it depends on how intentional you are about it in your forcebuilding - there are about 450 mechs with it so most factions and eras are going to have options. Also production era matters - a good chunk of the units with an ECM suite originate in the 3060-3085 window - upwards of 300.

[(SMD)MadCow]

ARAD and NARC work together anyway, and you need a NARC to prevent to-hit penalties against a non-electronics carrying unit.

[Iceweb]

I'm wondering if we need an i+Narc warhead that acts like an iNarc round but also counts the targeted unit as being tagged each round. 

Still doesn't help the ECM issue but being able to add semi guided and homing artillery to useful things a pod could do might help some.   

[Sartris]

I'm toying with a series of War of 3039 refits for the AFFC. Swapping an SRM-6 for NARC is, per StratOps, a Class A refit (therefore pretty easy). ECM doesn't show up for another several years to minimize hampering utility. NARC would mesh well with a large number of conventional forces as well from that era.

[Empyrus]

Good idea but do note that since SL tech is somewhat rare then, Narc-equipped ammo might be hard to come by. At least, depends on how strictly you interpret these things.
Narc-equipped missiles are probably much simpler thing than the Narc beacon itself.

[Sartris]

yeah, i had considered that which is why i was going for field refits instead of new variants. much easier to ship crates of NARC launchers to field crews than retool factories.

"Hey, we see you have some POS COM-1D in your unit. Try this!"

[Firesprocket]

ARAD and NARC work together anyway, and you need a NARC to prevent to-hit penalties against a non-electronics carrying unit.

That statement isn't accurate at all.  ARAD works just fine and gets no added benefit from NARC as they are searate munitions.  The only benefit ARAD gets from NARC is that if the target is NARC'd then the ARAD won't suffer penalties.  That makes it no different than if it was searching out any other electronic gear.

I do not like them at all . I preffer TAG more versatile. I have Never seen NARC used with enough efficacy to justify ever using it. After 3068 ECM is so common ARAAD missile ammo is just more efficient.

I'm not certain how it is more versatile, unless you are specifically commenting in terms of range advantage.  TAG requires that you either carry SG or Artillery rounds and you are paying additional BV for those SG rounds.  You have to shoot TAG every turn.  Once NARC is on there it isn't turning off unless it is in an ECM bubble or the location gets blasted off.

The only reason I find NARC to be inferior is because of the range of the system.  iNarc is perhaps a bit heavy, but with the alternative munitions I find it fairly decent, and the range is a big improvement.  Why it never really was included on more designs is beyond me.

[(SMD)MadCow]

That statement isn't accurate at all.  ARAD works just fine and gets no added benefit from NARC as they are searate munitions.  The only benefit ARAD gets from NARC is that if the target is NARC'd then the ARAD won't suffer penalties.  That makes it no different than if it was searching out any other electronic gear.

Tactical Operations, p. 368
ARAD Missiles follow the same rules as Narc-equipped standard missiles, however they ignore the effects of ECM against targets tagged by a friendly Narc pod. ARAD Missiles receive beneficial to-hit modifiers against targets using one of the following: Active Probe, Artemis IV, Blue Shield Particle Field Dampener, C3 systems, communications equipment (1+ tons) or ECM suites. Against targets not using the above, ARAD Missiles suffer negative to-hit modifiers.

[Iceweb]

The only reason I find NARC to be inferior is because of the range of the system.

It always amazes me that there was never even a boondoggle to attempt to attach beacons at long range.   

I imagine someone trying to launch beacons out of a mortar to saturate an area, or something ridiculous like that :)

[garhkal]

Tactical Operations, p. 368
ARAD Missiles follow the same rules as Narc-equipped standard missiles, however they ignore the effects of ECM against targets tagged by a friendly Narc pod. ARAD Missiles receive beneficial to-hit modifiers against targets using one of the following: Active Probe, Artemis IV, Blue Shield Particle Field Dampener, C3 systems, communications equipment (1+ tons) or ECM suites. Against targets not using the above, ARAD Missiles suffer negative to-hit modifiers.

Rats.  Only have TW, not tac ops, so don't have rules for them..  Are they LRM specialty munitions or can SRM's also have them?

[truetanker]

Fun fact.. you can Narc an immobile HEX and later hit it for what damage again?  >:D

That is if the Target moves into the hex...

Reason I say this... city fight, mech jumped unto a level 2 building, building had been previously Narc'd, I was at long range... -4 to hit building and +2 to the ol' Missile hit chart. Down came the building... which happened to have a sneaky basement in it!  :thumbsup:

TT

[brother elf]

Tactical Operations, p. 368
ARAD Missiles follow the same rules as Narc-equipped standard missiles, however they ignore the effects of ECM against targets tagged by a friendly Narc pod. ARAD Missiles receive beneficial to-hit modifiers against targets using one of the following: Active Probe, Artemis IV, Blue Shield Particle Field Dampener, C3 systems, communications equipment (1+ tons) or ECM suites. Against targets not using the above, ARAD Missiles suffer negative to-hit modifiers.

Can somebody jog my brain? There was something non-obvious that also counted as comms equipment, and I can't remember what it was. (Dual Cockpit Command Console?)

[brother elf]

It always amazes me that there was never even a boondoggle to attempt to attach beacons at long range.   

I imagine someone trying to launch beacons out of a mortar to saturate an area, or something ridiculous like that :)

Thunder-NARC as alternate Arrow IV ammo?   :D

[Daryk]

Can somebody jog my brain? There was something non-obvious that also counted as comms equipment, and I can't remember what it was. (Dual Cockpit Command Console?)

BattleMechs, Combat Vehicles and Fighters have the equivalent of one ton of Communications Equipment included in their cockpit or control tonnage (Tech Manual, page 212).  Small Craft and DropShips have the equivalent of 3 tons.

That really makes me wonder about the ARAD write up...

[Empyrus]

The rule change that added communications equipment as default to cockpits causes some mayhem (originally they didn't have this, it was to correct another issue i think). The above mentioned ARAD missiles are a good example, as things stand now, they are incredibly good missiles, since they receive -1 to hit against 'Mechs always now, and works as Narc-equipped missiles as well.
Another example would be how designs that were designed with 3 tons of communications equipment and the corresponding abilities now having more abilities.

Probably should go make a rules question or errata report on this, now that i think of it.
If the ARAD missile requirement would be changed to "2 or more tons of Communications Equipment", this issue would vanish, i really don't think it is intended.

[truetanker]

Thunder-NARC as alternate Arrow IV ammo?   :D

Plaster them like a FASCAM round?

TT

[(SMD)MadCow]

Rats.  Only have TW, not tac ops, so don't have rules for them..  Are they LRM specialty munitions or can SRM's also have them?

SRMs and MMLs can use them too.

[Luciora]

This is very much an Oprah meme.

Plaster them like a FASCAM round?

TT

[Sir Chaos]

It always amazes me that there was never even a boondoggle to attempt to attach beacons at long range.   

I imagine someone trying to launch beacons out of a mortar to saturate an area, or something ridiculous like that :)

Command-detonated minefields consisting of single-shot NARC launchers?

Arrow IV missiles that release NARC beacons on every hex in their area of effect instead of exploding (kinda like an ICBM with MIRV warheads)?

[Empyrus]

Command-detonated minefields consisting of single-shot NARC launchers?

Arrow IV missiles that release NARC beacons on every hex in their area of effect instead of exploding (kinda like an ICBM with MIRV warheads)?

Hanse Davion's corpse just started rolling in its grave, me thinks. The idea of Capellans doing this...

[garhkal]

SRMs and MMLs can use them too.

OOHH..  Next time i play, i might ask if i can use ARAM missiles for some mechs, to counter enemies using ECM!

[SCC]

ARAD and NARC work together anyway, and you need a NARC to prevent to-hit penalties against a non-electronics carrying unit.

Actually I don't think it works that unless there's been an errata or ruling that I've missed I don't think it works like that. RAW says that ARAD get the Narc bonuses but also suffer penalties when the unit doesn't have one of the listed system, so it will get the Narc bonus but also suffer those penalties, very weird I know.

[Empyrus]

Checking TacOps and its errata for ARAD munitions:

-ARAD vs unit without beacon, and no electronic emissions: +2 penalty to hit, -2 cluster hit penalty.
-ARAD vs unit without beacon, and electronic emissions: -1 to hit bonus from emissions, +1 cluster hit bonus from emissions.
-ARAD vs unit with electronic emissions, and/or Narc beacon (Narc benefit applies even under ECM field): -1 to hit bonus (does not stack with iNarc beacon bonus) from emissions, +1 cluster hit bonus from emissions, +2 cluster hit bonus from Narc/iNarc beacon, for net +3 cluster modifier.

Acceptable electronic emission sources:
Active Probes, ECM systems, Artemis systems, C3 systems, Blue Shield, or 3.5 tons or more communications equipment, OR just the Narc beacon itself per TO errata (but iNarc to-hit bonus doesn't stack here, so -1 to hit bonus only). Any single one is enough, more doesn't give greater benefit.

[(SMD)MadCow]

Actually I don't think it works that unless there's been an errata or ruling that I've missed I don't think it works like that. RAW says that ARAD get the Narc bonuses but also suffer penalties when the unit doesn't have one of the listed system, so it will get the Narc bonus but also suffer those penalties, very weird I know.

RAW they're upgraded NARC missiles and would incur no penalty fired at a NARCed target.

[garhkal]

Checking TacOps and its errata for ARAD munitions:

-ARAD vs unit without beacon, and no electronic emissions: +2 penalty to hit, -2 cluster hit penalty.
-ARAD vs unit without beacon, and electronic emissions: -1 to hit bonus from emissions, +1 cluster hit bonus from emissions.
-ARAD vs unit with electronic emissions, and/or Narc beacon (Narc benefit applies even under ECM field): -1 to hit bonus (does not stack with iNarc beacon bonus) from emissions, +1 cluster hit bonus from emissions, +2 cluster hit bonus from Narc/iNarc beacon, for net +3 cluster modifier.

Acceptable electronic emission sources:
Active Probes, ECM systems, Artemis systems, C3 systems, Blue Shield, or 3.5 tons or more communications equipment, OR just the Narc beacon itself per TO errata (but iNarc to-hit bonus doesn't stack here, so -1 to hit bonus only). Any single one is enough, more doesn't give greater benefit.

Sweet.  I take it they suffer the same half shots per ton other spec ammo does..

[Alsadius]

Sweet.  I take it they suffer the same half shots per ton other spec ammo does..

Nope. Their penalty is the -2 to hit against non-radiating sources, not ammo quantity.

[marauder648]

I would argue that in Clan use the NARC beacon would be utterly abandoned after the formation of the Clans and their hegemony over the Kerensky cluster and Homeworlds with their codes of battle becoming more and more regimented.  The NARC encourages and helps with concentrated fire, something utterly anethma to the Clans way of thinking for the most part. So they'd simply either not use it or have it used on some VERY rare configs on the lightest of Mechs.

[Empyrus]

Nope. Their penalty is the -2 to hit against non-radiating sources, not ammo quantity.

You misread what he wrote.

ARAD ammo does not suffer from halved ammo.

Indeed, most special munitions come with standard ammo loads.
EDIT Of TacOps included special missiles, Acid, Harpoon, Heat Seeking, Tandem Charge, and Thunder-Augmented have halved ammo loads.

I would argue that in Clan use the NARC beacon would be utterly abandoned after the formation of the Clans and their hegemony over the Kerensky cluster and Homeworlds with their codes of battle becoming more and more regimented.  The NARC encourages and helps with concentrated fire, something utterly anethma to the Clans way of thinking for the most part. So they'd simply either not use it or have it used on some VERY rare configs on the lightest of Mechs.

Nah, they didn't abandon it really.
For one thing, they made a Clan version. Had they abandoned it, it would've gone the way of NSS and CLPS. Heck, they even use TAG and Arrow IVs! Winning is important to them.
For another, there are few Omni configs with Narc. No, it is not common, but it exists. 5 of the original 16 Omnis actually have Narc configs: Summoner B, Kit Fox D, Warhawk B, Hellbringer A, Stormcrow D.

The Narc actually works pretty well in formal trials between two participants. You hit the opponent with Narc pod, then pour missiles on them, as Aidan not-yet-Pryde did. Evidently the opponent deserves that, as they couldn't avoid the pod in the first place!

In open fields, i figure the Narc is less popular among the Clans due to its nature. Still, winning is important and if the unit commander requires it to be used, it will be used. Same as TAG and Arrow IVs.

[Alsadius]

You misread what he wrote.

ARAD ammo does not suffer from halved ammo.

Indeed, most special munitions come with standard ammo loads.
EDIT Of TacOps included special missiles, Acid, Harpoon, Heat Seeking, Tandem Charge, and Thunder-Augmented have halved ammo loads.

I didn't misread him, I was disagreeing with him. He assumed they have halved ammo capacity(because that's the usual way to balance specialty ammo with no drawbacks, like Precision), but ammo with meaningful drawbacks, like ARAD, doesn't tend to have halved ammo loads. And, sure enough, ARAD ammo gets the same ammo per ton as standard munitions.

[garhkal]

Thanks.  And yes i did misunderstand, cause i thought it was common for specialty ammo to always be halved in load per ton.. 

[mbear]

It always amazes me that there was never even a boondoggle to attempt to attach beacons at long range.   

I imagine someone trying to launch beacons out of a mortar to saturate an area, or something ridiculous like that :)

Only problem with the mortar idea is that you'd definitely hit the ground if you missed, so your missiles will churn up grass like nobody's business but miss the 'Mechs. :\

Someone mentioned using a NARC pod as a replacement for an SRM-6, and I think that might be a good idea. Especially in the War of 3039, where experimental equipment was coming from the NAIS and ComStar/DCMS. I could see a Pegasus tank or two being equipped with a NARC and a fire lance being supplied with NARC-compatible missiles.

As for the cost or availability of the NARC compatible ammo, you're basically talking about a little tiny pod that basically yells "HEY, HERE I AM! OVER HERE! SHOOT THIS WAY!" on an electronic frequency. So if you tune warheads to listen to that frequency, Hilarity Ensues.

[massey]

I'd suggest the Clans use NARCs to fight bandits.  Not every combat with them is a series of honor duels.  Pirates are apparently a fairly common problem in Clan space.  It makes sense, such a rigid society that "washes out" otherwise capable warriors at a very high rate.  Not every guy who fails his Trial of Position is going to be okay with being a laborer for the rest of his life.  So Joe the dock worker (who has been through mech training and everything) just slips away one day, hitches a ride on some shuttle with some forged identity papers, and a month later he's piloting a mech and living out his warrior fantasies.

Against opponents like that, the Clans don't use the honor system.  If you presume that the bandits are going to use gear from some Exodus-era storage facility, they may not have lots of modern ECM equipment.  NARC would be great against those units.  For the Clans, Artemis IV is not that great.  Clan missile launchers are very light, and a 1 ton Artemis system is usually worse than just increasing the size of the launcher.  Which would you rather have, a 2.5 ton LRM-10 plus Artemis, or a 3.5 ton LRM-15?  But with NARC, you can get the same bonus without spending any weight.

I would guess that the Dark Caste/bandit route is actually a very common path for many people.  Think about the number of people in Aidan's sibko.  They start with dozens of people, and then eventually only one person actually passes the trial.  Aidan gets another chance, because he's the hero, but what about all the others?  You think everyone was happy with where they got reassigned?  Nobody was left unfulfilled?  While it's officially frowned upon, I think certain cynical Clan leaders might even be glad to have it as an outlet.  They could take a "look the other way" attitude as people who aren't fitting in find a way to make themselves scarce.  Instead of filling up your prisons, they provide your warriors with an opportunity for cheap target practice.  Not every fight needs to be between Clans.  Sometimes it's helpful to just kick the crap out of disorganized rabble in older machines.

[Hellraiser]

Someone mentioned using a NARC pod as a replacement for an SRM-6, and I think that might be a good idea. Especially in the War of 3039, where experimental equipment was coming from the NAIS and ComStar/DCMS. I could see a Pegasus tank or two being equipped with a NARC and a fire lance being supplied with NARC-compatible missiles.

That was me & that is the kind of situation I'm talking about.   From 3039 to 3055 or so I could easily see NARC being more effective for a company than Artemis as you have soooo many more L1 platforms still in use.
Same goes for SLDF era where house units didn't have as many fun toys as the SLDF & they didn't have 100% upgraded units.
Heck, by 3067 its STILL more effective for your militia/periphery grade units. 

I really would like to see a canon NARC variant for just about every double SRM6 unit out there.
Pegasus, Plainsman, Cavalry
Javelin, Crusader, Shogun, Whitworth, Trebuchet, Swayback, even the Commando isn't a BAD option.

[Iceweb]

Only problem with the mortar idea is that you'd definitely hit the ground if you missed, so your missiles will churn up grass like nobody's business but miss the 'Mechs. :\

I thought about that and figured that would be a good first step in a boondoggle. 
Then I tired to think about how can we tell a target apart from the ground. 

Simply put Mechs in general are metal (magnetic) hot, and go fast. 
A few sensors for a magnetic field, temperature, and accelerometers should give a nice number over 90% certainty if you are are on a target you want to home in on. 
I'm sure that actual engineers would have even more ideas on how to tell if you were on the ground or a war machine. 

If they can go faster than light they can figure this out....

[Sir Chaos]

I thought about that and figured that would be a good first step in a boondoggle. 
Then I tired to think about how can we tell a target apart from the ground. 

Simply put Mechs in general are metal (magnetic) hot, and go fast. 
A few sensors for a magnetic field, temperature, and accelerometers should give a nice number over 90% certainty if you are are on a target you want to home in on. 
I'm sure that actual engineers would have even more ideas on how to tell if you were on the ground or a war machine. 

If they can go faster than light they can figure this out....

How do the NARC beacons stick to the target? If they´re somehow able to tell if they´re sticking to something metallic, they should be able to selectively only turn on in that case.

I mean, there has got to be SOMETHING - after all, somehow the NARC beacons we already that miss their targets do not cause any problems of that sort.

[Sartris]

sentient magnets - the height of star league technology

i imagine a missed shot flying off into the woods and sticking to some dude's RV

[mbear]

How do the NARC beacons stick to the target? If they´re somehow able to tell if they´re sticking to something metallic, they should be able to selectively only turn on in that case.

I mean, there has got to be SOMETHING - after all, somehow the NARC beacons we already that miss their targets do not cause any problems of that sort.

Use a supercapacitor to strike an arc between the narc pod and the armor. That would weld the pod to the armor.

[Iceweb]

Well since the Narc launcher is not indirect I always assumed that one of the fail safes was an on off switch that the pilot triggered based on his mark I eyeball. 

That would explain why pods don't have any effect the round they are fired and only are useful in later rounds. 

On the other hand with the amount of missiles that miss even with all this superior tracking technology badly placed pods all over the place could explain some stuff also.

[grimlock1]

Well since the Narc launcher is not indirect I always assumed that one of the fail safes was an on off switch that the pilot triggered based on his mark I eyeball. 

That would explain why pods don't have any effect the round they are fired and only are useful in later rounds. 

On the other hand with the amount of missiles that miss even with all this superior tracking technology badly placed pods all over the place could explain some stuff also.

There are a couple of ways to do it, and the best method is probably all of them, in a sequence. You have a good fix on the range to target, and you know the missile's speed, so you know the flight time.  If the beacon doesn't start transmitting within say +/- 0.5 seconds of calculated impact, then reject it.  If it does connect within the right time frame, then compare absolute coordinates of the beacon to the absolute coordinates of the firing solution. Is the beacon transmitting from the location I wanted it to go?  If so, great.  If not, then look for relative motion. If the beacon is moving, it's attached to something.