Help building a 1st FS Armored Cav company

[ActionButler]

I made a thread a few weeks ago seeking help with picking out some common AFFS medium mechs and you guys were really great about providing some solid advice there.  After playing around with the line-up a bit and re-discovering a lot of my old minis (surprise metal Unseen Wolverine!) that had been in storage for the last decade or so, I'm back again with a tweaked roster for a Civil War-era 1st Federate Suns Armored Cav company (apologies for the incoming wall of text). 

The third lance is really giving me issues, though.  I don't know what it really wants to be.  Right now it is split between a fire support lance and a second striker lance.  I could take the Dervish out and make it a dedicated striker lance.  I could take the Enforcer and Phoenix Hawk out and make it a dedicated fire support lance with a Griffin and another Valyrie.  I just feel like there is a better way to finish the company. 

First Lance - Command/Heavy Lance
VTR-10D Victor - I don't really like either of the 3050 upgrades for the Victor, but I really like the Victor.  I wish that there was an LB-X 20 variant, but I will take the Ultra 20.  Anyway, solid Fed Suns mech with nice maneuverability.
MAD-5D  Marauder - Not sure if I want to snag a new Marauder mini or try to paint up my old, 3rd Edition plastic Marauder.  Either way, there will be a Marauder.
JM7-D Jagermech - Not much maneuverability for an armored cav company, but .  Added for direct fire support and on account of it being a token Fed Suns mech. 
JM7-D Jagermech - Yeah, another one.   

Second Lance - Striker Lance
ENF- 6M Enforcer III - Refresh of the venerable Enforcer. 
ENF-5D Enforcer - THE medium mech of the Fed Suns. 
WVR-7D Wolverine- Spot was previously going to be filled by a Shadow Hawk until I realized that I had the foresight to buy a metal Wolverine. 
CN9-D Centurion - The OTHER medium mech of the Fed Suns.  Worried that it is the only mech in the lance that is not jump-capable.  Better walk/run speed may make up for it, though.

Third Lance - Fire Support?  Striker Lance #2?
VLK-QD Valkyrie - Standard Fed Suns light mech, metal unseen mini in collection.   
DV-7D Dervish - Solid 55 tons of LRM support. 
ENF-5D Enforcer - Because a Fed Suns company can't have enough Enforcers.  And I'm running out of ideas...
PXH-3D - Phoenix Hawk - Solid medium mech.  Slightly faster than its lancemates. 

As always, any thoughts, insights, or suggestions would be much appreciated. 

Cheers  :)

[mike19k]

I made a thread a few weeks ago seeking help with picking out some common AFFS medium mechs and you guys were really great about providing some solid advice there.  After playing around with the line-up a bit and re-discovering a lot of my old minis (surprise metal Unseen Wolverine!) that had been in storage for the last decade or so, I'm back again with a tweaked roster for a Civil War-era 1st Federate Suns Armored Cav company (apologies for the incoming wall of text). 

The third lance is really giving me issues, though.  I don't know what it really wants to be.  Right now it is split between a fire support lance and a second striker lance.  I could take the Dervish out and make it a dedicated striker lance.  I could take the Enforcer and Phoenix Hawk out and make it a dedicated fire support lance with a Griffin and another Valyrie.  I just feel like there is a better way to finish the company. 

First Lance - Command/Heavy Lance
VTR-10D Victor - I don't really like either of the 3050 upgrades for the Victor, but I really like the Victor.  I wish that there was an LB-X 20 variant, but I will take the Ultra 20.  Anyway, solid Fed Suns mech with nice maneuverability.
MAD-5D  Marauder - Not sure if I want to snag a new Marauder mini or try to paint up my old, 3rd Edition plastic Marauder.  Either way, there will be a Marauder.
JM7-D Jagermech - Not much maneuverability for an armored cav company, but .  Added for direct fire support and on account of it being a token Fed Suns mech. 
JM7-D Jagermech - Yeah, another one.   

Second Lance - Striker Lance
ENF- 6M Enforcer III - Refresh of the venerable Enforcer. 
ENF-5D Enforcer - THE medium mech of the Fed Suns. 
WVR-7D Wolverine- Spot was previously going to be filled by a Shadow Hawk until I realized that I had the foresight to buy a metal Wolverine. 
CN9-D Centurion - The OTHER medium mech of the Fed Suns.  Worried that it is the only mech in the lance that is not jump-capable.  Better walk/run speed may make up for it, though.

Third Lance - Fire Support?  Striker Lance #2?
VLK-QD Valkyrie - Standard Fed Suns light mech, metal unseen mini in collection.   
DV-7D Dervish - Solid 55 tons of LRM support. 
ENF-5D Enforcer - Because a Fed Suns company can't have enough Enforcers.  And I'm running out of ideas...
PXH-3D - Phoenix Hawk - Solid medium mech.  Slightly faster than its lancemates. 

As always, any thoughts, insights, or suggestions would be much appreciated. 

Cheers  :)

My thoughts would be move the centurion from second lance to the third, move the phoenix hawk to the second and then add a second Valkyrie or centurion to the third dropping the enforcer from it, I would go with the second Valkyrie my self, that gives you a light fire lance and can still use part of it as a recon section. I would also look at replacing one of the JagerMechs with a Rifleman (not as iconic as the JagerMech but still was a favored unit in the FS)

[GhostCat]

Just using what you indicated is available, I want to ask why not the Griffin and Shadow Hawk in the Strike lance? 

First Lance - Command/Heavy Lance
MAD-5D  Marauder  - Not sure if I want to snag a new Marauder mini or try to paint up my old, 3rd Edition plastic Marauder.  Either way, there will be a Marauder.
JM7-D Jagermech - Not much maneuverability for an armored cav company, but .  Added for direct fire support and on account of it being a token Fed Suns mech. 
JM7-D Jagermech - Yeah, another one.   
CN9-D Centurion - The OTHER medium mech of the Fed Suns.  Worried that it is the only mech in the lance that is not jump-capable.  Better walk/run speed may make up for it, though.

Second Lance - Striker Lance
GRF-1N Griffin- Speed, Mobility, Fire Power.  You want this in a Strike Lance.
WVR-7D Wolverine- Spot was previously going to be filled by a Shadow Hawk until I realized that I had the foresight to buy a metal Wolverine. 
PXH-3D - Phoenix Hawk - Solid medium mech.  Slightly faster than its lance mates. 
DV-7D Dervish - Solid 55 tons of LRM support.  Because, you can.

Third Lance - Fire Support?  Striker Lance #2?
VTR-10D Victor - I don't really like either of the 3050 upgrades for the Victor, but I really like the Victor.  I wish that there was an LB-X 20 variant, but I will take the Ultra 20.  Anyway, solid Fed Suns mech with nice maneuverability.
ENF- 6M Enforcer III - Refresh of the venerable Enforcer. 
ENF-5D Enforcer - THE medium mech of the Fed Suns
ENF-5D Enforcer - Because a Fed Suns company can't have enough Enforcers.  And I'm running out of ideas...

Well, the third lance is a little heavy, but it's better than trying to squeeze in two Valkyries instead of the Enforcer-5Ds, but you might want to try it with the Valkyries.  The point is that an Assault mech appears in what otherwise looks like a light or medium lance.  They all jump, and it's scary.  The only thing better would be to use Panthers with the Victor (ask the DCMS for details).

All your non-jumping mechs are together in one lance as it should be.  I don't know which mech the company commander rides, but all three lances have much better synergy working together or independently.

This is just one option and you can choose any Griffin if it works for you.

GC

[ActionButler]

My thoughts would be move the centurion from second lance to the third, move the phoenix hawk to the second and then add a second Valkyrie or centurion to the third dropping the enforcer from it, I would go with the second Valkyrie my self, that gives you a light fire lance and can still use part of it as a recon section. I would also look at replacing one of the JagerMechs with a Rifleman (not as iconic as the JagerMech but still was a favored unit in the FS)

You know, if I had looked at that list dor a year, I don't think I ever would have seen the logic of moving the Centurion to the third lance.  I like the idea of adding a second Valkyrie, too.  If ever there was a light me h that I didn't need a reason to buy more of, it is the Valkyrie. 

I can see adding a Rifleman in place of the Jager.  Especially in an AFFS unit,  I like the Reseen sculpt, too.  Will definitely give that some thought.

Thanks!

[ActionButler]

Just using what you indicated is available, I want to ask why not the Griffin and Shadow Hawk in the Strike lance? 

No reason at all.  The only reason for suggesting the Griffin for the fire lance is because of the LRMs it would be packing.  Its always been one of my favorite designs, so I could be convinced to add one to any of the lances. 

Same with the Shadow Hawk.  I could see swapping the Phoenix Hawk out in favor of the Shadow Hawk, actually, given the Davion affection for autocannons. 

Moving the Victor out of the first lance could be a really fun idea.  I will have to keep that in mind. 

Thanks!

[Colt Ward]

Problem with this . . . the 1FSAC is a cavalry regiment using 5/8 or faster designs.  While IIRC they are the only FS regiment that has two lances of Regulators going into the Jihad they would also have 'liberated' Men Shen, Ti T'sang, Jinggau, Lao Hu and Thunders along with Thanatos, Argus, Black Hawk KU, Maelstroms, Rakshasa, and the 5/8 Salamander.  Perhaps they would have been assigned some of the faster Clan salvage, Gargoyles, Cauldron Born, Summoners and maybe Hellbringers.  Which of course is just a list of the heavier designs meeting the speed requirements.

Not sure they even tote BA along because of the movement requirements.

[foxbat]

Problem with this . . . the 1FSAC is a cavalry regiment using 5/8 or faster designs. [...]

This is mostly an interpretation by us the fans. While I mostly subscribre to it - a 4/6/4 move curve wouln't shock me - it has never been explicitly stated in canon IIRC.

[ActionButler]

Problem with this . . . the 1FSAC is a cavalry regiment using 5/8 or faster designs. 

This is mostly an interpretation by us the fans. While I mostly subscribre to it - a 4/6/4 move curve wouln't shock me - it has never been explicitly stated in canon IIRC.

Where DOES that info come from, actually?  I included mostly mediums and jump-capable mechs specifically because of the cavalry designation, but I couldn't find any information definitively saying whether or not they would include any heavy/assault mechs.

Now... that being said, the only thing I am really, truly married to in this situation is the paint scheme - Davion green with white highlights.  These guys could just as easily be the 5th Crucis Lancers, which would be kind of fun, actually, since I might be able to justify including some tracked vehicles rather than just hovertanks.   

[Colt Ward]

Try and see if I can find it . . . might be accepted wisdom, but I thought it came from a book.

I was thinking about this for a mid to late Civil War battalion if it was at full strength.  What I could not find was something suitable to run with the Hellspawn as a 3rd faster fire support lance in the company.  I also included some possible alternates, the Rifleman is extremely attractive for the Line Company perhaps replacing the Verfolger.

Command Lance
Gargoyle
Salamander PPR-5T
Maelstrom
Barghest 1T

Fire Support Lance
Salamander PPR-5T
Rakshasa -1A
JagerMech III -D3
Argus 2D

Griffin 3M
Dervish 6Mr
Dervish 7D (ammo mod)
Nightsky 5T

Hellspawn 7D

Strike Company
Cauldron Born
Lao Hu
Thunder 1L
Rakshasa 2A

Ti Ts'ang
Nightsky 4S
Enforcer 6G
Phoenix Hawk 3PL

Falconer 9R
Thanatos 4S
Wolverine 7D (PR mod)
Starslayer 3D

Line Company
Flashman 8K
Men Shen
Verfolger
Bushwhacker X1

Summoner
Black Hawk KU
Firestarter Omni
Firestarter Omni

Blitzkrieg 3F
Stealth 1D
Spector 5F
Osiris 4D

Alternates
Thunderbolt 9NAIS
Bombardier 12D
Argus 4D
Anvil 3R
Rifleman 6X
Champion 3N

[Colt Ward]

My other thought is . . . the 1FSAC is the unit that raids the Cappies, a lot.  Which means that any Cappie weapons, ammo and equipment that filters through their hands has a chance of staying in Armored Cav depots.  Would they have Thunder ammo?  T-Aug ammo? T-Active ammo? Semi-G?  Perhaps some Fa Shih BA, or depending on the timeframe some Trinity?

It always seemed to me they were in good supply for items they might use in their raiding.

[Archangel]

The problem is that the tactic that the 1FSAC excelled at, the lightning raid, doesn't give them a lot of opportunities to salvage enemy equipment (high-tech or low-tech), not to mention that their tactics are frequently hard on their own men and equipment.  Salvage would slow their withdrawal and give the enemy time to react and catch up with them.

[Colt Ward]

I am not claiming picking over every bit of the battlefield type of salvage, they honestly make a good Tonbo unit candidate IMO, but grabbing the quickest easiest stuff.  My understanding from IIRC Handbook House Davion was that 1FSAC was the quartermaster corp's acquisition team- objective raids to smash & grab whatever might be worth it sitting in a depot.  The other side being disruption strikes like '39 raid on Grand Base's Earthwerks facility.

[Archangel]

Their primary mission was to disrupt the enemy logistics network whether by destroying enemy supply depots or capturing them.  Their preferred target was likely the poorly defended supply depots rather than the better defended regional supply depots or unit depots which would have held the true gems.  Of course, this doesn't include Daoshen's secret supply depots which held a lot of high-tech gems.

[ActionButler]

It may have just been me reading too much between the lines, but when I re-skimmed the entry for the 1st FSAC in the Federated Suns FM, it seemed to imply that the group was not hurting for supplies.  Something about the line "its equipment is younger than its personnel" or some such device.

Of course I can see how they would be interested in salvaging what they could from the CCAF.

[Archangel]

It may have just been me reading too much between the lines, but when I re-skimmed the entry for the 1st FSAC in the Federated Suns FM, it seemed to imply that the group was not hurting for supplies.  Something about the line "its equipment is younger than its personnel" or some such device.

Two of the main reasons that their equipment is younger than its personnel is that not only are their missions are hard on men and machinery but even during "peacetime" they are constantly in action.  As one of the favored regiments in the AFFS, their losses and worn-out equipment gets replaced far more quickly than other AFFS regiments.

[Colt Ward]

Also makes you wonder what sort of protocols they have in the field about demolishing equipment they have to abandon.

[phoenixalpha]

The FSAC is also one of *the* premier units in the AFFS so it will want for nothing. Its primary role is as a raid and destroy (or raid and capture) unit, so fast units would be a lot more in demand than standard 4/6/* mechs I'm guessing. So I would personally take that as a 5/8/* minimum on speed. So fast Omni's and faster Phoenix Program mechs would be the mainstay of the FSAC come the Civil War.