Is the Capellan Confederation just a second-rate Clan?

[Achtung Minen!]

I'm starting to read more of the Inner Sphere background and I was surprised to learn about the Capellan Confederation's pale imitation of Clan culture. Hear me out! It seems Capellan society is based heavily on three elements:

1) The Korvin Doctrine basically fuses a pseudo-communist, classless society with one strong, centralised government for all of humanity. Like the Clans, Capellan society is, in theory (if not in practice), classless, where individuality is suppressed and communality reigns: everyone must do their part "for the greater good." Capellan doctrine envisions a future utopia where all of humanity lives under this centralized system, for greater shared prosperity. Likewise, the Clans (and the Crusader Clans in particular) interpret Kerensky's vision to call for a reestablishment of the Star League, now under the auspices of the highly regimented Clan society.

2) The Sarna Mandate establishes Capellan society as a technocratic system. Much like the Clan caste-system, each field (military, science, civic engineering, etc.) is run largely by the experts in that field, where education and competence are the only qualifications for placement and advancement (instead of class, family name or politics—again, at least in theory). Even becoming a full citizen requires standardized tests. Failing these relegates one to the servitor class, similar to the lowly Clan labourer, although like any meritocracy, even then one has opportunities to work one's way up the ladder and prove one's worth.

3) Finally, the Lorix Order cements the prominence of a warrior culture as the ideal for Capellan society. While it is not as central as the warrior culture in Clan society, Capellan's venerate warriors as paying the ultimate and archetypal sacrifice for the preservation of their social revolution. The result is that Capellan MechWarriors are awarded significant social status, but are also subject to even more stringent social restrictions. In many ways, the MechWarriors of the Confederation are the inspiration and role models of lay Capellan society.

The biggest caveat to all this, however, seems to be the degree to which the Capellan Confederation (or more precisely, it's rather corrupt rulers and administrators) fall short of their own ideals. Nevertheless, it seems that Capellans share some theoretical touchstones with Clan society, even though the cultures are ultimately very different.

What do you think? Is there a connection to be made?

[Tai Dai Cultist]

You are aware that the Confederation predates the Clans both IC and OOC, right?

The Condederation doesn't imitate the Clans.. the Clans imitate the Confederation.

[PurpleDragon]

You are aware that the Confederation predates the Clans both IC and OOC, right?

The Condederation doesn't imitate the Clans.. the Clans imitate the Confederation.

This is correct.  The difference comes with what has been going on around them.  The Cappellans did not have the benefit of a single-minded military faction come back after an mini-exodus; and, enforce their structure on everybody.  Which is what the Clan invasion was supposed to do according to the Crusaders. 

[YingJanshi]

Hm, only in the very widest, broadest general terms.

For one thing none of the "castes" in Capellan society are subservient to any of the others. They are broadly speaking all equal. Of course some of them are considered a bit more prestigious than the others, but they aren't above them. (I'm leaving out the Servitors as they are really something unto themselves. And I feel I should note that is it entirely possible, encouraged even, to leave the Servitors, unlike say the Eta caste in the Combine or the Dark caste of the Clans.) Also Capellan "castes" aren't nearly as stratified as the Clan or Combine systems. They're more like guilds or unions (yes, ones that you are born into). It is entirely possible to leave the caste of your parents for another one or to marry someone of a different "caste". Honestly, I wish the writers had chosen some other name for it, because "caste" is really far to misleading to what the system really is.

Technocratic? Did you actually mean "Meritocratic"? Yes, in theory Capellan society is meritocratic. The difference though, is that when the Clans say that Bob the Laborer serves the Clan, they mean the Warriors. For the Warrior caste is the Clan. For the Capellans though, serving the state isn't just serving the government, it is serving each other. For every citizen of the Confederation is the state. In theory, every citizen that does his duty to the best of his ability is equal with every other citizen, from a window washer, to a teacher, to a researcher in a top secret lap, to a soldier on the front lines. (Obviously in practice some of those will be give much greater prestige than others.)

And yes, but that is generally true of any society with a military (it's hard to keep getting recruits if you don't romanticize it to a degree). Then again in true meritocratic society, the more you sacrifice for the state (your fellow citizens) the greater the state rewards you. In that sense I'd say the Confederation is a truer form of meritocracy than the Clans are. Because Confederation society encourages all citizens to better themselves, for in doing so they better the state as a whole. While for the Clans, the only Caste that will ever truly matter is the Warriors. In the Confederation, the civilians are the heart of the state with the warriors as the shield and sword; in the Clans, the Warriors are the heart and soul of the Clans, with the other castes merely secondary but sadly necessary parts.

[False Son]

1) The Korvin Doctrine basically fuses a pseudo-communist, classless society with one strong, centralised government for all of humanity. Like the Clans, Capellan society is, in theory (if not in practice), classless, where individuality is suppressed and communality reigns: everyone must do their part "for the greater good." Capellan doctrine envisions a future utopia where all of humanity lives under this centralized system, for greater shared prosperity. Likewise, the Clans (and the Crusader Clans in particular) interpret Kerensky's vision to call for a reestablishment of the Star League, now under the auspices of the highly regimented Clan society.

Except that castes very much do exist in the Capellan Confederation.  Individuality is not suppressed, as so much encouraged to be expressed within the approved avenues of The State.  How you end up in those castes is in part due to your willingness to assist The State.  Those that contribute to society are given the benefits of The State as Citizens.  Those who are not willing to are on the bottom of society and owed nothing.

Conversely, the Clans establish the role of each member of it's society from the start.  Laborers are not going to become mechwarriors the way a Servitor child can become a mechwarrior in the CC.  Washed out Warriors have their choice various fields, depending on what clan we're talking about.  Generally, the entirety of Clan society serves the Warrior Caste, and even those that are born into the Warrior caste and wash out get a greater range of options for a post military career than those born into castes with fixed duties.

2) The Sarna Mandate establishes Capellan society as a technocratic system. Much like the Clan caste-system, each field (military, science, civic engineering, etc.) is run largely by the experts in that field, where education and competence are the only qualifications for placement and advancement (instead of class, family name or politics—again, at least in theory). Even becoming a full citizen requires standardized tests. Failing these relegates one to the servitor class, similar to the lowly Clan labourer, although like any meritocracy, even then one has opportunities to work one's way up the ladder and prove one's worth.

The emphasis here is very different.  The Clans are not interested in the Trueborn Warrior Caste being overrun by aspiring lower castemen looking to further themselves.  Freeborns are accepted if they test in, but they lack the sibko training system the Trueborns have.  In other words, the deck is stacked against anyone outside the Trueborns when it comes to winning a Trial of Position to become a Warrior.  The Capellan Confederation in theory gives all children access to education that will provide them with the knowledge of how to become a Citizen.  From there, Capellan Citizens have a greater range of career options than their Clan counterparts.

3) Finally, the Lorix Order cements the prominence of a warrior culture as the ideal for Capellan society. While it is not as central as the warrior culture in Clan society, Capellan's venerate warriors as paying the ultimate and archetypal sacrifice for the preservation of their social revolution. The result is that Capellan MechWarriors are awarded significant social status, but are also subject to even more stringent social restrictions. In many ways, the MechWarriors of the Confederation are the inspiration and role models of lay Capellan society.

Because the warriors of the CCAF are all volunteers.  They chose the route of Citizenship and to place themselves in harm's way to protect The State and it's population, Citizen and non-Citizen.  The CCAF is a function of The State, which is different than the Warrior Caste being a function of the Clan.  More like the Clan is the umbrella term for the attendant support structure needed to keep the Warrior Caste going.  The aim of the Clans is conquest and the upholding of Kerensky's caste system.  The Capellan Confederation is The State.  The State looks after it's own.  The State will defend you, educate you, provide you with jobs and health care.  The Clans?  No.  Lower castemen work themselves in fear of the Warrior caste and get no rewards.  The protection provided by the Warriors is simply being defended as property from would be usurpers.  The Warriors do not have a genuine interest in defending or even caring about the lower castes beyond what they can do for the Warriors.

The biggest caveat to all this, however, seems to be the degree to which the Capellan Confederation (or more precisely, it's rather corrupt rulers and administrators) fall short of their own ideals. Nevertheless, it seems that Capellans share some theoretical touchstones with Clan society, even though the cultures are ultimately very different.

What do you think? Is there a connection to be made?

I think it is an easy, broad stroke assessment without thinking about the origins of both groups.  The Capellans are a society.  The philosophical underpinnings of the Capellan Confederation are born out of how to run a society day to day.  The way of the Clans is about the glorification and support of the Warrior caste as the supreme function of not only the Clan, but all human endeavors.  The Capellan Confederation may idolize it's defenders, but does not exist in the same way as the clans to perpetuate an ongoing military dictatorship with eugenic barriers to membership.  No society would ever evolve into the Clans, whereas the Capellan Confederation's beliefs are not far fetched.  The Clans were created by the act of a madman with a dogged following of soldiers who were all too happy to accept his new society in which they ruled over civilians without question and perpetuated their genetic legacy as the legitimate underpinnings of their society.

[Lysenko]

And, since False Son and YingJanshi have already outlined the reality far better than I can, let me just that the Confed is first rate, the Clans are the imitation. :)

[Neko_Bijin]

So many better candidates for second-rate clan, starting with the Clans.

[MadCapellan]

So many better candidates for second-rate clan, starting with the Clans.

Neko, I want you to know that I've always loved you.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I believe that Malvina is attempting to emulate the Liaos' level of crazy rather than the other way round.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

I believe that Malvina is attempting to emulate the Liaos' level of crazy rather than the other way round.

The Clans are late to the game in all sorts of respects.

The OP noticed a few aspects of the Confederation that Little Nicky shamelessly incorporated into his novel society, but I'll throw out another one.  The Warrior Houses were fielding what the Clans call Novas long before the Clans even existed.  And those tough bastards did it without the crutch of battle armor.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

The Confederation is a fusion of Imperial+Communist China ruled by a barbarian descendant.

The Clans are a fusion of Mongol confederate tribes and the Soviet Union. No surprise considering the heritage of their founder.

[YingJanshi]

Actually...before Sun Tzu started the Xin Sheng movement, the Confederation had a pretty big Russian influence...(Tikonov...)

[False Son]

I always wanted to attribute the personal naming conventions to the Scottish influence.  But, heck if I know.

[solmanian]

The Clans are late to the game in all sorts of respects.

The OP noticed a few aspects of the Confederation that Little Nicky shamelessly incorporated into his novel society, but I'll throw out another one.  The Warrior Houses were fielding what the Clans call Novas long before the Clans even existed.  And those tough bastards did it without the crutch of battle armor.

1. The clans predate the warrior houses.
2. The warrior houses didn't invent combined arms warfare. And at the time that the clans introduced the novas, the houses still considered their infantry battalion as the useless part of their unit, while the clans acknowledged that elementals could rape an unwary battlemech.
3. Saying the CapCons fielded Novas without BAs, is like describing an infantry platoon as "a battlemech battalion without battlemechs".

[/drops mic, walks away]

[Bosefius]

Everyone needs to take a deep breath before continuing. Thank you.