Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade  (Read 12379 times)

sillybrit

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’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« on: 02 May 2014, 12:04:41 »
     The Carronade is a 70 ton ’Mech from the StarCorps stable, first fielded by Duchy of Oriente forces and then spreading throughout the Free Worlds states, mercenaries and even Solaris VII gladiators. Appearing in the FWL version of the 3145 Technical Readouts, the Carronade is thus a very new addition to the purple peoples' arsenal.

     Starting with a little design background first: the initial project notes for what eventually became the Carronade simply read "High-End Heavy Trooper Mech", with a requested mass of 70 tons. For me, a trooper ’Mech needs to have reasonable mobility, be able to take a decent amount of damage, and should avoid the more esoteric equipment options. A trooper is the unit that fills the ranks of your regular line regiments, so nothing fancy is needed, just a solid performer that can adapt to a variety of foes.

     Within those parameters, the "high-end" requirement means that cost doesn't need be a concern, so there's little in the way of standard equipment used in the Carronade. For the basic framework of the design, the endosteel and XL engine wouldn't have been amiss on a SLDF design. Personally, I've always been nervous about XL engines, particularly in ’Mechs meant to stand and both take and deal out punishment, but as we'll see the mass is needed for the heavy armament and thus it couldn't be avoided.

    With twenty critical slots already claimed between the engine and structure, no more could be spared for the armor, thus the Carronade is fitted with plain old vanilla standard plating. The thirteen and a half tons of armor provides near maximum protection, just one point short of what the 70 ton structure can bear. The actual armor placement is thus somewhat easy given that all but one location is at maximum value, although the balance between the front and rear of the torso sections is typically where players will have their own opinions. In the case of the Carronade there's a mix of aesthetics and functionality.

    The front right and left torso armor values match the arm protection,allowing all four locations to take an Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle hit without penetration. As a signature Lyran weapon, which is no longer counted as experimental, that would likely likely be an in-universe benchmark for a FWL design. That leaves just eight points apiece for the rear side torsos, which is shy of the anti-PPC or twin medium laser capacity I would prefer given my druthers, but the ability to defeat a single large laser hit is still nothing to be sneered at. In the case of the center torso, with the rear armor PPC resitant, that dictates the protection afforded to the front; which just happens to come out as exactly 50% stronger than the sides.

    With the engine, skeleton and armor out of the way, that leaves 45 tons for the remaining equipment and weaponry. An XL gyro could have freed up more mass, but that's something I really don't like to see in a frontline combatant. The relative vulnerability of the engine also discourages the use of a compact or heavy duty gyro in my opinion. Why bother spending mass to make the gyro more resistant if the engine already presents a large potential weakness? Another weight saver, the small cockpit, which imposes a Piloting penalty, wouldn't have fit the trooper theme, in my opinion, so there's little scope to increase the combat payload. With those last structural requirements out of the way, that meant that more than half the Carronade's mass is available for the important parts: the things that go boom, boom, pew, pew.

     The choice of the main armament was influenced by an old board discussion about the Lyran's Gürteltier and how to kill or cripple one, which seems a reasonable goal for a FWL designed ’Mech. Being on the slow side, the Carronade would have to rely upon strong ranged firepower. The need for a long range crit seeker for mobility crits combined with a heavy hitter to punch through the Gürteltier's thick plating neatly matched a Gauss Rifle and Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle combo. With such low heat main weapons, there would be no need to divert any mass to extra heat sinks, which was a good thing once the bare minimum ammo load was added to the rifles themselves. Sixteen shots apiece is the typical standard most players set for their Gauss Rifles and it's enough to last most scenarios.

     Unfortunately, dedicating so much mass to the two Gauss Rifles was that it left the Carronade all but defenseless once the ammo is gone, and I've taken part in enough campaign games that I do have a strong aversion to such ammunition reliant designs, particularly for the main troopers. Sadly, there's no energy weapon equivalent to the Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle, so that was a given, and the alternatives to the standard Gauss Rifle had their own issues. One possibility would have been a Heavy PPC, but that means giving up too much range. An ER PPC would have kept the range but lost the headcapping capability, although that could be retained through the use of a PPC capacitor, albeit with a slower rate of fire. The ER PPC option is very tempting, but in the end it would also harm the character of the design, in my opinion. The Free Worlds League has long been seen as the Light Gauss Rifle state, and the use of a Gauss Rifle and Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle is an intentional counter to that perception. Of course, twin standard Gauss Rifles would also be an option, but that design theme is so overdone, at least in the custom game.

     With so little mass remaining, the Carronade's final form is beginning to take shape. The mixture of XL engine and exploding Gauss Rifles strongly suggested the usage of CASE II, which also helps stamp this as a more modern design. This is perhaps a controversial feature given that Gauss Rifle explosions aren't as bad as ammunition explosions, and some would no doubt prefer more guns or Gauss ammo. Arguments can be given in favor of all the options, so it really comes down to personal preference.

     Thanks to the cool-running nature of Gauss weaponry, there was no need for extra heat sinks, so the last three tons could be spent on secondary armament. Some might like to have seen C3 installed, but that doesn't feel very FWL-ish to me, while ECM or a Probe would have left an uncomfortable one and a half tons, and doesn't seem suited to a trooper. Some form of anti-infantry weaponry would have been nice but it would have left the backup firepower too weak for my tastes, so the last tons were spent on a trio of ER Medium Lasers. Even a full running alpha won't overheat the Carronade without engine damage, so the extra range of the ER lasers over the standard model comes with little cost.

     Using the Carronade is simple: it's for those guys in ranks with the sleepy look - the executioners. The mobility matches that of many other heavies and a fair number of assaults, so it's not going to dance around the foe. It's swift enough to get the job done, no more, no less. Able to walk fast enough to achieve a +1 Target Movement Modifier, or to run for +2, with either movement mode having a little slack for terrain, the Carronade relies mostly upon its armor to stay alive. That and killing the enemy quicker than the enemy can kill it. Luckily, blowing stuff up at range is the Carronade's strength. Of course, you don't need to sit at the back and just snipe, as long range weaponry sometimes allows you to exploit range band gaps, so that you get to shoot at medium range, for example, while the foe can only just reach you if they have shorter ranged armament.

     The Carronade is geared for killing big targets: other ’Mechs, armored vehicles and even enemy air support. Some designs are good at punching holes, others are good at exploiting those weaknesses. The Carronade can do both. In addition, the Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle is as adept at bringing down hostile fighters and VTOLs as it is at crippling tanks or seeking out cracks in a ’Mech's armor. Furthermore, even with an average cluster roll, it can hit with enough pellets that when Gauss weapons strike, the Carronade can force an enemy MechWarrior to make a Piloting check. The Gauss Rifle can also headcap unless the target has installed one of the design options to protect the cockpit from such unpleasantness. At closer ranges, the lasers are just cream on top, as well as giving a token backup for when the last Gauss shell is fired.

     If you're using the optional battle armor critical rules from A Time Of War Companion, then the Silver Bullet can make for a decent anti-battlesuit weapon, potentially crippling multiple suits with a single shot, if you get lucky. Of course, the normal Gauss Rifle is going to one-shot kill any heavy-class or smaller battle armor, and will do the same to many assault suits too, so there's always the less subtle approach to removing pesky battle armor from your Carronade's path. There is the problem of the main guns only having sixteen shots apiece, so you can't really afford to go battlesuit hunting, it's more of an option if you find yourself with a shot you simply can't afford not to take.

     Conventional infantry are going to find themselves even better off than their armored brethren when facing a Carronade. The complete lack of anti-personnel armament makes the ’Mech quite vulnerable in close quarters and it really will need friends to help it out. My advice, unless operating with something like a Firestarter or your own infantry, a Carronade should really go looking for trouble outside of cities and other such natural PBI territory.

     Personally, I'd favor partnering the Carronade with ’Mechs like the Black Knight BLK-NT-3B, which has Inner Sphere General availability in the current era. A pure energy boat, with anti-personnel weaponry, it helps cover the Carronade's weaknesses, while the Carronade provides a little more bite than the Black Knight. With a pair of Carronades supported by a Black Knight, you'd have the core of a powerful heavy lance that could be completed by indirect fire support from an Archer-4M or Pandarus, or perhaps a more mobile partner in the form of a Wraith-TR2 or Ostsol-9M.

     The 1799 BV cost makes the Carronade a little expensive to field compared to some other 70 tonners, so depending upon your BV limit you might have to make sacrifices elsewhere. If the in-universe cost is of more concern to you, then the C-bill price tag is also higher than many other heavies, but then again the Carronade is meant to be a high-end design despite its relative simplicity.

     On a closing note, I know that some players commented that they would have preferred the name to be used on a shorter-ranged design to better suit the historical carronade. All I can say is that the name was too good not to use, and at least the mix of Gauss Rifles matches the shot and grape combo of the old weapon.


martian

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #1 on: 02 May 2014, 12:30:28 »
1) One of the best new 'Mechs available to the new FWLM.

2) Especially I like that those two GRs create no heat, so I can show finger all 'Mechs with Plasma Cannons. Or, in other words, this design keeps its combat value even after two engine hits.

3) When fielding Lance, I usually don't use other 'Mechs based around critseeking weapons, as SB GR is often sufficient.
I like filling remaining slots with some durable hole-punchers. Something like this:
  • CRN-7M Carronade
  • FLS-9M Flashman
  • WHM-8D Warhammer
  • BLK-NT-5H Black Knight

False Son

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #2 on: 02 May 2014, 13:11:34 »
It seems to me the Carronade is not-so-surprisingly well built to attack the Duchy of Andurien.  The Silver Bullet GR is a potent weapon for neutralizing the Moltkes and Bulwarks, while the flak bonus and range puts worry into the Aeron.  Immobilize and target the weakest location with the standard GR while the Silver Bullet seeks out new targets.  Nevermind the secondary target modifier, that GR will also be getting a -4 for an immobile target.

The armor being tough enough to resist HGRs is also handy when it comes to resisting a surprise Bulwark coming around the corner.  You can resist the HGR and split the tank in two with an exposed ammo feed hit via the SBGR.  The Carronade can also resist a full volley of the Moltke 1's trigun arsenal in the same torso location.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #3 on: 02 May 2014, 13:14:11 »
It fights as good as it looks.    O0
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A. Lurker

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #4 on: 02 May 2014, 13:24:53 »
...well, I see I don't need to comment on the name. ;)

Overall, looks like a solid if IMO honestly somewhat boring 'Mech. Comparatively slow heavy footslogger alpha baby with two long-range guns for main armament and a trio of pew-pew lasers to finish things up close (if the action gets there)...I'm actually getting a vaguely Dragon Fire-ish vibe from this, though of course the latter 'Mech sports a shorter-ranged pellet gun and in exchange a somewhat more diverse and impressive laser arsenal.

Regarding the CASE II I can see some method to the supposed madness. If I've got an XL engine, keeping my arms as long as possible is part of what helps me protect those vulnerable side torsos, and here the enhanced CASE protection helps me do just that. So while I'm not sure it's necessarily how I'd have spent those two tons myself (then again, I probably wouldn't have opted for two ballistic weapons this heavy to begin with on a frame in this weight class and then we'd be talking about a different 'Mech altogether...), it's something I can definitely live with.

Really, if I had a complaint about it it'd be that I'm just not feeling particularly inspired by it at the moment. I mean, I can practically look at its stats and already know how it'll play. No quirks, no surprises, no buttons to push or dials to fiddle with...no real need to even take it out for a test run. And while there's no denying that predictability can be a good thing in a military machine, especially in a designated "trooper" with the expected reliability and steadfastness the title implies, it's not necessarily what I look for in a playing piece for BattleTech as a game.

As criticisms go, I've fired off worse. ;)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #5 on: 02 May 2014, 13:58:12 »
I'm glad you said it.  I was trying not to be that guy.  Thank you.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #6 on: 02 May 2014, 14:00:25 »
While I haven't used a Carronade yet(and I *will* comment on the name), I am looking forward to it. Think I'm going to try and build a lance of mostly Anzus, backed up by a single Carronade. The Anzus have plenty of firepower, but it's almost all hole-punchers. Combined with the Carronade's Gauss, that's plenty of knockdown punch, but precious little in the way of finishers. That SBGR will give the group the ability to beat something down, but then move on to something else while the Carronade finishes it off.

Oh, and if you ever run across a Carronade with a really good gunner, or one likely to used braced shots or anything else that boosts to-hits, kill it first. Called Shots may be murder on the to-hit rolls, but if a Carronade pilot can find ways to bring the numbers back down towards reliable, he will be a literal executioner, using high shots with that SPGR to pepper your pilots into pulp. #P

Oh, and I gotta say...
...blowing stuff up at range is the Carronade's strength.
...the irony is delicious. ;D
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martian

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #7 on: 02 May 2014, 14:16:36 »
While I haven't used a Carronade yet(and I *will* comment on the name), I am looking forward to it. Think I'm going to try and build a lance of mostly Anzus, backed up by a single Carronade. The Anzus have plenty of firepower, but it's almost all hole-punchers. Combined with the Carronade's Gauss, that's plenty of knockdown punch, but precious little in the way of finishers. That SBGR will give the group the ability to beat something down, but then move on to something else while the Carronade finishes it off.
...

Carronade with a pair of Anzus (1*-G60, 1*-J70) and Havoc is good, but sometimes it has problems to keep the pace with its lancemates, as it can't jump. Of course that's not a big deal thanks those long-ranged GRs, but still ...

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #8 on: 02 May 2014, 14:23:15 »
Yeah, keeping pace will be tricky, though I'm certainly not as jump-happy as I once was. As you say, the range of the coilguns makes up for most of it, and the rest of it will revolve around not trying to field them whilst actually asleep. Of course, the kind of really broken terrain where jump jets are indespensable would break this force up in no time, but those kinds of badlands are hardly the preferred realms to use Carronades in any capacity. Get more usage there out of an old-model Whitworth dropping S-G missiles on the Anzu's TAGs.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #9 on: 02 May 2014, 14:27:30 »
I think in the over all scheme of 'mech design, it is a "boring, predictable" heavy.  But in terms of FWL players getting something that is actually pretty easy to use and deadly, well, it has been a long time coming.

The few times I've used in in MM it's done very well, with my best kill being a through armor critical on a Gutterrumdugwhatever, which then took out the cockpit.  So much for zombie right?  :D

The Carronade providers the a high damage, possibly game ending threat that serves League forces well!

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #10 on: 02 May 2014, 14:32:00 »
Yeah, I may be 100% opposed to the idea that the FWL doesn't get useful stuff, but sometimes even we Leaguers need to shut off our brains every once in a while and punch holes in things.

Punch...

OOH! Carronades 'shooting in' some Banshee-3Mrs! :D

Thanks for the inspiration! >:D
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #11 on: 02 May 2014, 15:10:07 »
Yeah, I may be 100% opposed to the idea that the FWL doesn't get useful stuff, but sometimes even we Leaguers need to shut off our brains every once in a while and punch holes in things.

We'll see.  TRO 3145 is mostly units from the the pre-unified League states, Regulus and Andurien.  Once the LCCC gets it's traditionally poor management wrapped around procurement the recent trend of "good stuff" may change.

But, if anyone is going to put out a by the numbers effective mech it's going to be Oriente.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #12 on: 02 May 2014, 18:09:16 »
Gotta say that this baby is one of my favourites from the entire TRO3145 series, and is a great heavy trooper for what seems to be coming back to being my favourite Successor State. It's a good, solid and reliable design, and the combination of the two different types of Gauss is an effective one. I've had an amazing amount of luck with the Carronade's SBG in MegaMek, constantly hitting with a good amount of clusters, and I swear the thing rolls head and crits out of all proportion.

Plus it looks cool. The triangular integrated Gauss rifles, the use of hands on said arms and the funky legs make for a nice-looking package
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #13 on: 02 May 2014, 18:32:07 »
I like Carronade's potential, i've been trying to do more games trying each faction's unique units see how it goes from there.  I want try Carronade with the Anzus and see how well they work together.  Thanks for the article, sillybits!
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #14 on: 02 May 2014, 19:54:37 »
The Carronade definately gets style points.

...Really, if I had a complaint about it it'd be that I'm just not feeling particularly inspired by it at the moment...

I´ll second that. It is not one of those Mechs you can´t wait to try out as soon as you got the TRO in your hands. (That was the Sarath.) Its performance is admirable, no doubt about it. A hole puncher plus a crit seeker at excellent range is nothing to scoff at.
Previously I was kind of unenthusiastic about the Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle. "It´s just another kind of LB-X. And can´t even switch to solid shot." is what I dismissed it as. Some MM experiments taught me otherwise.

I just have the feeling the Mech lacks a certain something. Be it a quirk, more weapons to have the option of deliberatedly overheating, maybe a supercharger, I don´t know. It is just that I don´t get the "trooper" vibe from the design that I expected. Maybe a special armour would have done the trick to make it more trooper-y. It got 4 empty critical slots. There has to be something you can do with that. I wouldn´t know how, though. It would just have been nice.



Well structured article by the way.
« Last Edit: 02 May 2014, 20:05:20 by Molossian Dog IIC »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #15 on: 03 May 2014, 07:27:38 »
On the other hand, there is something to be said for a solid and reliable design with few glaring weaknesses. And remember, in Battletech, the shiny new thing is often what gets shot at first.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #16 on: 03 May 2014, 14:38:35 »
Considering I live a stones throw from the site of the Ironworks which first made the guns this mech takes its name from it is a bit remiss of me that I haven't taken one out for a spin. When I get to doing more Dark Age play I must rectify this because it is one of the designs in the 3145 TROs that really leapt out at me. Partly for the wonderfully simple but effective armament profile, but also because I just love the non-nonsense visuals of its looks. It has that "collection of straight edges" feel I always got from the old Archer and found so reassuringly resilient looking.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #17 on: 03 May 2014, 14:47:22 »
I just have the feeling the Mech lacks a certain something. Be it a quirk, more weapons to have the option of deliberatedly overheating, maybe a supercharger, I don´t know. It is just that I don´t get the "trooper" vibe from the design that I expected. Maybe a special armour would have done the trick to make it more trooper-y. It got 4 empty critical slots. There has to be something you can do with that. I wouldn´t know how, though. It would just have been nice.

Well, for me a "trooper" is more in your face than a gauss boat, which says long range sniper fire support to me, so I would say that it's the armament that is the cause.

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martian

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #18 on: 03 May 2014, 14:57:40 »
Well, for me a "trooper" is more in your face than a gauss boat, which says long range sniper fire support to me, so I would say that it's the armament that is the cause.

For such tasks, the new FWLM has been given ZU-G60/J70 Anzu and TDR-10M Thunderbolt.

When saying "trooper" about the Carronade, people often mean that it can fight enemy combat vehicles, helicopters or BA as well as enemy BattleMechs.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #19 on: 03 May 2014, 15:10:37 »
Well, for me a "trooper" is more in your face than a gauss boat, which says long range sniper fire support to me, so I would say that it's the armament that is the cause.

There's that, I suppose. My idea of a "trooper" is usually something of a jack-of-all-trades generalist, and the Carronade doesn't have the mobility to be that on the modern battlefield.

It's also kind of weak against flankers -- its trio of ERMLs is head- and torso-mounted, so can't support whichever one of its two main guns it may choose to bring to bear against an enemy on its six, and the relatively low speed can readily make it hard to stay on the move and out-turn prospective backstabbers at the same time. Put everything together, and long-range direct fire support is definitely where I'd see its primary niche as well.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #20 on: 03 May 2014, 20:03:32 »
On the other hand, there is something to be said for a solid and reliable design with few glaring weaknesses. And remember, in Battletech, the shiny new thing is often what gets shot at first.
Oh I know about its value. And it complements the FWL heavy department.

Maybe it is just that we FWL players have gotten used to be given quirky things to such a degree that a no frills high performer leaves us a little confused.
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« Last Edit: 03 May 2014, 20:08:05 by Molossian Dog IIC »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #21 on: 03 May 2014, 20:53:12 »
No catch. Honest.

To paraphrase the end of my second paragraph, my design thinking for the Carronade was nothing fancy, just a solid performer that could adapt to a variety of foes. I could have easily pushed the envelope harder, perhaps begged for a smidgeon of Clantech (APGRs instead of the ERMLs were a great temptation), but in the end I opted for simplicity.

martian

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #22 on: 04 May 2014, 02:04:21 »

I am immensely grateful that the Carronade is without "character" and it is not "quirky".

Because translated "character" means "almost useless" and "quirky" means "worthless". I can name many FWL 'Mechs that have "character", and therefore are completely trashy and inferior to everything what other factions have got.

Good job!   O0   O0

Molossian Dog IIC

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #23 on: 04 May 2014, 07:37:21 »
No catch. Honest. ...
I know, I checked the record sheet over and over again.  :))

Just wanted to point out that the mild confusion FWL players feel probably comes from our ingrained way of thinking, instead of having anything to do with the Mech itself.

And I think you did the right thing with the ERMLs. Clantech be damned. We can do with our run of the mill IS tech.


EDIT: Hey, while we are at it ... what emblem is there on the Carronade´s left side torso? On first look I thought it looked almost like the old Sirian Lancers insigia. But they are gone.
« Last Edit: 04 May 2014, 07:51:19 by Molossian Dog IIC »

martian

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #24 on: 04 May 2014, 09:51:21 »
...
EDIT: Hey, while we are at it ... what emblem is there on the Carronade´s left side torso? On first look I thought it looked almost like the old Sirian Lancers insigia. But they are gone.

My guess:
FedRats - Kestrel Grenadiers ....

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #25 on: 04 May 2014, 21:44:20 »
Because translated "character" means "almost useless" and "quirky" means "worthless".

I...no, never mind. We've had this argument before, there's no need to rehash it again. You're free to ignore all those other units if you wish, and let the rest of us FWL fans enjoy the interesting stuff.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #26 on: 08 May 2014, 09:53:07 »
A brilliant design, the Carronade is one hell of a mech!
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #27 on: 19 April 2019, 00:16:05 »
I finally got a chance to test this mech out tonight.

It's fantastic.  Took it and a Sarith Prime against a Cestus and a Liao P-Hawk (the one with the plasma rifle and stealth armor).

This mech tears things up. Had the Sarith bunkered down behind partial cover when the Pixie decided to get up close to the Carronade.  I alpha striked him at two hexes.  Completely destroyed his right leg and left him lying on the ground while I closed in on the Cestus.  Took some heavy damage (including a floating crit to the head that knocked out my ER Medium Laser), but the Silver Bullet Gauss did an excellent job crit-seeking and cost the Cestus both his lasers in the right arm.  Finally ended when I managed to destroy the Cestus's left torso with a gauss slug.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #28 on: 19 April 2019, 08:33:06 »
As a boring person of competent design I appreciate boring, competent mechs

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Carronade
« Reply #29 on: 19 April 2019, 19:24:44 »
Honestly, I don't think 'boring' is the right term for the Carronade. I think a better term is 'Utilitarian'. The Silver Bullet Gauss is the primary thing holding it back from being generic and boring. If it had a second normal Gauss, then yeah, I'd say boring.

 

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