(Another) Mech of the Week - The Cauldron Born

[Arkansas Warrior]

It occurred to me after I posted it that it would probably come across wrong to a lot of people.  Apologies.

[JadeHellbringer]

Quoting the entire article and picking it apart line by line? THAT'S what people want from the _otW articles now?

Maybe I made the right call putting Vehicle on hold for a while, if that's what the writers can expect in response to their work.

[Arkansas Warrior]

I've always found that easier than quoting the whole wall of text and then trying to go "Regarding your point about X, I really think...", "but when it comes to what you said on Y..."  and so on.  Can it be done?  Sure.  But it's a lot harder to parse that way.  To me at least, YMMV.

[The Eagle]

Quoting the entire article and picking it apart line by line? THAT'S what people want from the _otW articles now?

Maybe I made the right call putting Vehicle on hold for a while, if that's what the writers can expect in response to their work.

Answering snark with hyperbole?  One bad apple doesn't ruin the bushel.  I for one thoroughly enjoy all of the _otW articles, especially those of Jihad- and Dark Age-era equipment, because I've never actually a played a game that takes place post-3060 (not by choice, mind you).  I don't have a lot of first-hand knowledge of these units, thus the articles provide me an excellent overview of things that I *may* face in the future.

[Men Shen]

Please everyone don't stop writing x of the week articles just because some people are douchey. I really really like reading them.

[GreekFire]

So, uh, to get things back on track...

I think the Cauldron-Born would be a good 'Mech to be in simply because of how high its weapons are mounted. The arms aren't low slung, and you've got very high weapon mounts for some of the weapon systems (letting you poke out from cover without exposing your head or torso).

Another thing to note is how none of its configs have hands or lower arm actuators. You can flip your arms on any model, making backstabbing one of them one hell of a dangerous prospect.

[marauder648]

I added the little bit about the LAM as its meant to be a IC report, I added it because it was fun and didn't wanna copy the info word for word from the TRO or Sarna.

'deep' ammo bins for a clan mech.  Look at their 3050 stuff the original omni's 90% of them carried 1 tonne of ammo for their guns (Thor's LB-10 for the prime, LRM-20's on the Mad cat and Vulture Prime etc).  Unless you was an assault mech, most of the machines would make do with a tonne of ammo a peice or went berserk that Warhawk with 5 tonnes of SRM-6 ammo for example( 0046AM I don't have TRO3050 on me so please tear that comment apart too).
The Foxes putting out a tech-demonstrator? With them I view them as being as eagerly anticipated as pre-release downloads.  Who cares if its not really bug free and the leg falls off, and there's an alarming burning smell, its clan tech, for sale in your system now.  You only find out about the technical gremlins later (I am of course being sarcastic.)

But what is clearly wanted is ZE FACTS UNT ONLY ZE FACTS! ALL ELSE IST VERBOTEN!  No author inserted stuff, just a copy of the TRO which ANYONE can read or get from Sarna.

Clearly the article was not written by GRRM and afaik I'm not a professional but wanted to do this because I enjoy writhing them (and have done a fair few) but it clearly lacked the quality you wanted.  I won't bloody bother next time. 

[Arkansas Warrior]

Nobody's perfect the first time.  We get better by trying, finding things we need to improve, and trying again.  Lord knows the two or three DropShip -otW articles I wrote many moons ago aren't professional literature.  Sorry that I made a bit of an ass of myself, I could've gone about it better. :-\

[Men Shen]

Marauder I really enjoyed your article and the style it was written in. Forget this guy and just keep on keeping on!

[marauder648]

Sorry that I made a bit of an ass of myself, I could've gone about it better. :-\

TBH yes, yes you did and yes you could.  Also its not my first time that i've written these things.

But appology accepted.

[Savage Coyote]

Due to faction choices, I've never really used this guy that much.  I've the H a few times to devastating effect, but other than that, not too often as my Clans of choice have Timber Wolves in excess (Coyotes and Wolves.)  I've always liked the look of it to be honest.  The few times I've used it I've never really worried much about the armor because, as others have pointed out, it's one of the heavier armored clan 'mechs of the era.

It's also one of the 'mechs that you either like to see on the other side or hate.  If i'm playing someone I find prone to making mistakes, I like seeing these guys.  All that tempting firepower to overheat too much with and/or not using the speed to it's fullest, letting the "weaker" armor of the legs and arms take more hits.  On the flip side, good players can use this guy pretty well and be pretty annoying.  It seems it's always one way or another, at least in my experience!

[GreekFire]

Something for Diamond Shark players to note is that the Cauldron-Born effectively becomes our most common Heavy 'Mech by 3067 (see FM:U and WoR:S). It's what has taught me to use it well, since chances are I'll be using at least one the moment I make an RAT-based force.

A lot of the configurations are a bit gimped, but really, that's nothing new when it comes to Clan 'Mechs. The chassis itself has served me very well over the years, with my overall preferences leaning towards the D, E, and H for various reasons. The D is a heat-effective way to throw five 10-point hits downrange (if you aren't afraid of your dice), while the E is an excellent mid-ranged fighter with powerful close-ranged options. The H is a pure brawling config, but one that's pretty well made IMO.

By the end of the Jihad it appears that the C-B is still OOP in the Inner Sphere, and its numbers slowly trickle down until we reach 3145 and its two lonely RAT slots on the Sea Fox table (and bad ones at that, with a roughly 14% chance of it appearing in Frontline formations and an 8% chance of landing one in a Keshik).

[Orin J.]

while i don't think expressing your dislike of the post's choice of description in the form or tearing it apart is polite or correct, i'll try to answer a coule of your complaints.

Deep ammo bins?  16 rounds four the gauss rifle is pretty much the baseline for "adequate", but I've never heard it called deep before.  I'd gladly trade a ton of LBX ammo for another ton of gauss ammo.  Also, where does the anecdote about Jihad-era pilots loading inferno ammo come from?  I'd think they'd have been doing that forever.

a quick review of of clan omnis shows that they typically prefer a single ton of ammo for most things not marked "missile boat". the gauss gets a single ton fairly often, especially the first wave clan 'mechs so in the context of keeping your forces informed, the two ton bins a Cauldron Born uses as standard is good to know since they won't suffer from ammo base firepower losses nearly as fast.

The MPLs are "almost unnoticed"?  How?  With this thing's heat dissipation it oughta be liberally using the lowest-heat weapons it has.  in fact you can fire all the PLs and run for 0 heat, so I'd expect it to be doing that most of the time.

unnoticed as in they're hard to see, warrior. those guns are tucked almost completely inside the main body, unlike the beefy arm cannon mounts.

Why would the Foxes be marketing a test bed?  I'd think they'd want to work the kinks out before selling, surely this is a production model.  If they were selling a technology demonstrator, why would the advanced weapons be a reason to rebuff Republic inquiries?

it's a test bed for the buyers to learn how their new technology works. can you think of any better sugar to make the potentially bitter medicine of the RAC go down than clan pulse lasers & a targeting computer?

The interior of a Cauldron-Born is roomy?  sure doesn't look it.

go and take a look at the Vulture's torso. the Cauldron Born's big cylinder body is plenty roomy compared to that. pluse it doesn't have a waist joint it needs to accommodate.

[Arkansas Warrior]

8 rounds is not typical.  Look at the early TROs (up through '58 when we got the Cauldron-Born):

TRO 3050
8 rounds: Nova C, Hellbringer B, Summoner A, Timber Wolf B
16 rounds:  Kit Fox A, Mad Dog C (x2), Gargoyle B, Warhawk B, Executioner Prime
24 rounds: Dire Wolf A
Average: 13.82 rounds

TRO 3055
16 rounds: Linebacker B

TRO 3058
12 rounds: Night Gyr B (x2)
16 rounds: Shadow Cat Prime, Cauldron-Born Prime
Average: 14 rounds

16 is as close to average as you can get without fractional accounting or splitting tonnage between multiple guns.  I doubt that changes much if you add in the later TROs.

[GreekFire]

Is there really a need to over-analyze how many gauss slugs it carries, and whether it's "deep" or not?

I really fail to see how it adds to the discussion on the Cauldron-Born.

[Arkansas Warrior]

On a completely different topic relating to the Cauldron-Born, I heard a theory once: it and the Kingfisher's names are backwards.  Bear with me.  The Cauldron-Born is supposed to be named for "unstoppable zombies of Irish* myth".  Now, while its durability certainly compares favorably with its nearest rivals the Vulture and Loki and even equals the heavier Thor (while carrying more pod space than any of them!), it isn't exactly what we'd typically term a zombie, what with the XL engine and large amounts of ammo (albeit CASE-protected) in many configurations.  The Kingfisher, OTOH, was essentially the archetypal Zombie Assault Omnimech, at least until the Jihad and coming of designs like the Archangel and Osteon.  It's legendary among players for its unkillability, especially the flashbulb C.  And the Kingfisher is anthropomorphic, which zombies usually are an RL kingfishers (a family of birds) definitely are not.  The cauldron-born, OTOH, does have birdlike legs.  So several years ago someone, on this or a previous iteration of the forums, suggested that somewhere along the way their names got switched.  I don't know that there's any way of proving that, or how you'd go about digging up information on the production of the original TRO 3058, but it's an interesting idea nonetheless.  Even if it turns out to be hogwash.





*Isn't it actually Welsh?  I recall cauldron-born in the Chonicles of Prydain, which is adapted from Welsh myth, largely the Mabinogion.

[The Eagle]

It might have been a wire-crossing moment for the writers; the cauldron-born are from Welsh myth, but the god Dagda from Irish myth had a magical cauldron as well.

[Scotty]

And here I always thought that the name was supposed to be a point of pride for Trueborn warriors, since they are also cauldron born (so to speak).

[jymset]

On a completely different topic relating to the Cauldron-Born, I heard a theory once: it and the Kingfisher's names are backwards.
<snip>
I don't know that there's any way of proving that, or how you'd go about digging up information on the production of the original TRO 3058, but it's an interesting idea nonetheless.  Even if it turns out to be hogwash.

That is a very interesting theory, but alas, it doesn't bear out.

The Cauldron-Born first appeared in Invading Clans, FAS1645.
The Kingfisher first appeared in what is still-canon in The Black Thorns, FAS1686.

Now while these were both 1994 books, there weren't any writers involved in both projects. More precisely, James D. Long's Kingfisher actually first appeared in MFNA's MECH Special Issue. At least in the "Retrofit" of 1992, not sure if it was already there in the original run in 1991.

So yeah, hate doing it, but this myth is busted. ;)

EDIT: ack. The Cauldron-Born was already published in Luthien, 1993. But that one was written by Gressman, so it doesn't change the two designs having different roots.

[God and Davion]

First of all, thanks for the article! Hmm... Cauldron Born. It is a great mech and a good design, an almost successful improvement over the flawed Hellbringer. The "almost" part comes from the lack of consistent configurations. The chasis is good but the main configurations are somewhat lacking. They lack firepower, they lack ammo, they lack heat sinks. The "A" version is so much a heat hog that it is not funny. The good part is that some of those underwhelming configurations are very cheap regarding BV.

Yes, I know, I know, this sounds lather lackluster... forget it. Use the H variant. It is subtle as a brick. In your face. Get close to the enemy and bring the love. The UAC/20 and HLL are here to create big holes. Really big holes. It is somewhat tricky to use but the Targeting Computer and the UAC20 are an evil combo. The most vicious you became with the heat curve, the better. It can rip off mechs in one turn and it can do horrible things to slower units.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The H variant is one of my favorite heavy mechs for dueling.

[Kotetsu]

The Cauldron-Born. A nice little BattleMech that can change a foe's battle plans.

I remember the first time I used one. There was this game where some Coyotes were to make an incursion onto a Kurita world. Having been chosen for the Kurita forces (as one was my preferred Clan, the other my preferred House, I let the numbers decide), I perused their available units and found the Cauldron-Born A model. As I wanted to include one ex-Jaguar, so as to allow the use of the Honor rules that were in-place, he got that big guy.

When the maps were generated, on the north flank there was this hill overlooking the battlefield. So I plopped him down there. And based on how the OpFor reacted, he basically forced them to go south. I say this, because had I been on their team I would have noted that the north seemed unexpected, picked a bunch of jumpers and gone that way. As the Coyotes were Honor Level 1 (at least at the time), I would also have done honor duels.

I will note that I offered a duel, but was turned down when it became apparent that those playing the Coyotes had decided not to play as Coyotes, but as a bunch of dezgra pirates who had somehow gotten their hands of Coyote BattleMechs (I believe that the core rulebook had just arrived, so no, the Society was not known at the time).

This might seem weird to those who have read my MotW's, but... I find the fluff very important when you are trying to play a game, as it should determine how you actually fight.

[cold1]

Quoting the entire article and picking it apart line by line? THAT'S what people want from the _otW articles now?

Maybe I made the right call putting Vehicle on hold for a while, if that's what the writers can expect in response to their work.

I'm playing catch up around here.  Been short on free time and what little I had was dedicated to a couple car forums looking for parts for my new ride.

But I'm with Hellbie.  I've written a few of these articles and I'm not sure its worth it if you take that kind of beating.

I've got a Bowman article partially done.  Can't wait to see the response when I declare the Bowman 3 is a mech capable of going toe to toe with any of the heavy omnis! ;D

[Col.Hengist]

This is one of my favorite clan mechs. I'm very pleased with the deep bins on this, compared to normal ( 3050 ) clan Omni's which seem to be duelers.
 This mech seems more to be designed for longer battles and has the ammo bins to hang around when other Omni's have to reload.

 The loadouts seem more designed to counter IS tactics too.

[cold1]

I think the logic for the configurations stems from the in universe creators.  It's possible the writer who came up with this thing was brilliant and very tuned in to the Smoke Jaguars and not just slapping guns on the thing.

SJ Warrior Caste checklist for new heavy omni:
We need a better mech than the Hellbringer... done!
We need weapons that work against the Spheroids... done!
Lots of guns... done!
More guns... Done!
We need one to be a forward spotter/recon mech, with lots of guns... Done!
We need a mech that meets our fierce all out fighting style... done!
It's gotta look cool and scary... done!
We are Smoke Jaguar, we are win and this mech must too... done!

It's like the Warriors gave the scientists a list of jumbled requests which the scientists interpreted literally and in order given without applying any free thinking.  Which is exactly how the Jaguars worked in the first place.

The chassis is probably my favorite to play with, with the possible exception of the Night Gyr.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Jaguar scientist were probably afraid to take too much license.  Memories of Londerholm and all that.

[Orin J.]

And here I always thought that the name was supposed to be a point of pride for Trueborn warriors, since they are also cauldron born (so to speak).

that makes a certain level of sense, although i'd expect any 'mech built to capitalize on clan warrior's pride to be....well, taller.

[Shatara]

KittyMechs need to be lean and low, like they're about to pounce and relieve you of your throat.

[cold1]

Jaguar scientist were probably afraid to take too much license.  Memories of Londerholm and all that.

My point exactly

The Jag's lower castes did what they were told to the letter without deviation.  No thought or interpretation allowed.  You see it in the configurations.  Great chassis, goofy compromise layouts.

[jklantern]

Something for Diamond Shark players to note is that the Cauldron-Born effectively becomes our most common Heavy 'Mech by 3067 (see FM:U and WoR:S).

How the HELL did THAT happen?