Author Topic: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger  (Read 47548 times)

Empyrus

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #30 on: 16 February 2016, 14:37:06 »
The original Charger definitely loses out. When the storyline was that alot of the advanced Star League tech was limited to the Hegemony, the Charger could make sense. A fast heavy scout pushing the limits of engine technology makes sense.

That same design when XL engines have been around for 75 years, and Endo Steel for nearly 200 begins to look like insanity.

80 ton chassis, 400-rated XLFE, Endo-Steel, Ferro-Fibrous, Double Heat Sinks, Beagle Active Probe. This leaves quite a bit of tonnage for weapons, for example, a pair of ER PPCs and quad MPLS (and the MPLs could be downgraded for MLs, an extra ton ton armor and a Command Console). Expensive but effective. (EDIT I made a thread to the custom units section)
Of course, wasting such a design for scouting, even strategic scouting, doesn't make much sense, i think. But then, the Charger -1A1 as it is doesn't make sense either.
« Last Edit: 16 February 2016, 14:50:30 by Empyrus »

glitterboy2098

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #31 on: 16 February 2016, 15:44:13 »
so do we need a "royal charger"?

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #32 on: 16 February 2016, 15:50:43 »
No, the SLDF just moved on, otherwise it kills some of the charm of the 'Mech's history.
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Empyrus

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #33 on: 16 February 2016, 15:59:27 »
Well, without an extensive redesign, the Charger could not even be upgraded to Royal status. They certainly were pretty extensive at times but not really that extensive (i think). One reason i named my design "Charger II", more apt.

Terrace

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #34 on: 16 February 2016, 16:31:50 »
The way I see it, the manufacturing company successfully developed the 400-rated fusion engine, then had to create a BattleMech to carry it. They went cheap on that part, hoping the SLDF wouldn't care in light of having such a fast 80-tonner, and perhaps they'd even pay to upgrade the design.

Unfortunately, the SLDF did care, and dropped the Charger as soon as they could. Actually, do we know if the developing company was in Hegemony territory or not? That might affect what technology they could get for the -1A1 model...

Edit: Ah, it was developed on Luthien. Yeah, given how tight-fisted the Hegemony was with their tech, it makes perfect sense that standard tech was used on a BattleMech developed in the Combine...
« Last Edit: 16 February 2016, 16:34:04 by Terrace »

garhkal

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #35 on: 16 February 2016, 16:53:41 »
I wonder how nasty one could make a charger if you used an XXL 400 engine and an Extra large gyro for stability?
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #36 on: 16 February 2016, 17:01:46 »
so do we need a "royal charger"?

There already is one.  It's called the Spartan.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #37 on: 16 February 2016, 18:45:35 »
There already is one.  It's called the Spartan.

Was thinking the same thing.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #38 on: 16 February 2016, 21:19:58 »
Well, without an extensive redesign, the Charger could not even be upgraded to Royal status. They certainly were pretty extensive at times but not really that extensive (i think). One reason i named my design "Charger II", more apt.

The Royal Rifleman II says hi.

Honestly, when you look at the extent of the changes they made with some of the Royal designs, I don't think its out of line that they would swap the engine for an XL if they thought it was worth it.  The last part is the problem, as like the Banshee this mediocre design was passed over in favour of upgrading the newer and more effective toys in the SLDF arsenal to spruce them up even further.
« Last Edit: 16 February 2016, 21:24:17 by Don Lunardi »
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Empyrus

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #39 on: 16 February 2016, 21:39:12 »
I forgot the Rifleman II... but then i really, really dislike the idea of a Royal being pretty much completely different 'Mech.

Anyway, my Charger II overhauls every single aspect of the 'Mech, not just changing to an XL Fusion Engine. The latter is perfectly acceptable for a Royal, i think, but combined with everything else, short of changing overall mass? Yeah, no.

The Banshee was old and had bad reputation by the time it could have been upgraded reasonably, so i'm not surprised it never got a Royal upgrade. The Charger is way newer but it was also a big embarrassment, more so than the Banshee, so it is no surprise it didn't get a re-design of any kind.

garhkal

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #40 on: 17 February 2016, 00:43:03 »
What makes a mech "Royal" anyway??
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #41 on: 17 February 2016, 00:56:02 »
Broadly speaking, it's any mech distributed to the Star League Defense Forces Royal units but held back from the regulars.

So really, it's whatever you want it to be, baby. 
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #42 on: 17 February 2016, 01:00:41 »
Though the term is often used as a title for the more advance mech models that existed during the SL era such as the Warhammer 6Rb with FF Armor and DHS.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #43 on: 17 February 2016, 01:06:48 »
Which is kinda annoying, since what constituted a royal mech would change over time as newer models were introduced and older ones were sent down to the regulars. It's imprecise.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #44 on: 17 February 2016, 01:48:24 »
At which point a former Royal mech would be shuffled down to the regular units while a newer, more advanced replacement would take its place.

Everything I've seen about the Star League suggests that the Hegemony had better control over more advanced tech (which at the time meant Tournament Legal tech level) than the Inner Sphere did post Helm core, where everyone ended up with pretty much everything equally well.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #45 on: 17 February 2016, 02:31:21 »
I've always been a fan of the Charger's visuals, but the machine as it is... Yea, it sucks.

That tends to be my issue with the Charger too. It has an awesome "look" that just screams potential, but the design itself is an assault-class lemon.

I've done a number of home-brew designs myself to try to improve it, with mixed results. I have to say though that it really stands out as eye-candy when equipped with a melee weapon in the right hand. ;)

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #46 on: 17 February 2016, 08:41:28 »
I wonder how nasty one could make a charger if you used an XXL 400 engine and an Extra large gyro for stability?
Then add a supercharger and MASC...

Too bad the 480 rated XXL engine weighs 90+ tons. Could you imagine a Charger with a base speed of 6/9?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #47 on: 17 February 2016, 14:15:45 »
Then add a supercharger and MASC...

Too bad the 480 rated XXL engine weighs 90+ tons. Could you imagine a Charger with a base speed of 6/9?

90 tons even for an extra extra light engine??
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Sabelkatten

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #48 on: 17 February 2016, 14:42:52 »
I wonder how nasty one could make a charger if you used an XXL 400 engine and an Extra large gyro for stability?
I made a super-Rakshasa at 80 tons, ES, 5/8 XXLFE, XL gyro... almost 40 tons payload. By the official pricing rules it starts edging into WarShip territory when you add a supercharger! ;D

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #49 on: 17 February 2016, 17:01:46 »
actually, at one point i made a very useful charger by just giving the -1A1 Endosteel, dropping half a ton of armor (and upgrading to Ferrofibrous), and mounting the -1L's loadout of 1LL and 2ML. even with single heatsinks it would be very useful. it actually gets tougher (the FF armor leaves it with more armor than it had before the switch, even with the loss of half a ton), and it's firepower would be pretty much the same as a p-hawk. making it a useful scout hunter. and it only increases the C-bill cost by about half a million. :)

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #50 on: 17 February 2016, 20:24:14 »
I have to say though that it really stands out as eye-candy when equipped with a melee weapon in the right hand. ;)

This I agree with. I have plans to pick up a 1A5 mini, and give it a halberd ...
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #51 on: 17 February 2016, 20:30:01 »
This I agree with. I have plans to pick up a 1A5 mini, and give it a halberd ...

If only halberds were available as a physical weapon.. then again, fat lot of good it would do if it would remain Range 0/1 like everything else.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #52 on: 18 February 2016, 04:34:27 »
I forgot the Rifleman II... but then i really, really dislike the idea of a Royal being pretty much completely different 'Mech.

Anyway, my Charger II overhauls every single aspect of the 'Mech, not just changing to an XL Fusion Engine. The latter is perfectly acceptable for a Royal, i think, but combined with everything else, short of changing overall mass? Yeah, no.

I would tend to agree with you, actually.  I suspect the whole reason it exists in the first place was a bit of fluff from the old Solaris VII box set which suggested that there was evidence that Gray Norton's Legend Killer was in fact an advanced SLDF design which massed far more than the standard Rifleman.  As such, when the Royals were debuted, we were given the Rifleman II.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #53 on: 18 February 2016, 04:44:28 »
I forgot the Rifleman II... but then i really, really dislike the idea of a Royal being pretty much completely different 'Mech.

Same here, actually think it only exists to justify he all the Clan assaults class IIC 
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #54 on: 18 February 2016, 05:15:56 »
There's plenty of reasons both in and out of universe to have designs straying far from the norm.
But then again, the main identity of the Charger is "being a lemon" for most of it's history, so it's hard to justify making a better lemon.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #55 on: 18 February 2016, 15:35:29 »
If only halberds were available as a physical weapon.. then again, fat lot of good it would do if it would remain Range 0/1 like everything else.

One possibility - Consider allowing a "Halberd" to have the requirements and the damage of a "Mace", but require the use of TWO fully functioning hands and NOT firing arm-mounted weaponry the same round as the physical attack.

Just a thought...

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #56 on: 18 February 2016, 16:27:27 »
If only halberds were available as a physical weapon.. then again, fat lot of good it would do if it would remain Range 0/1 like everything else.

Just use a hatchet and fluff it as being a halberd--the Mortis (iirc) already does that for a scythe, so why not?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #57 on: 18 February 2016, 17:42:04 »
That's what I'd do.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #58 on: 18 February 2016, 23:41:12 »
actually, at one point i made a very useful charger by just giving the -1A1 Endosteel, dropping half a ton of armor (and upgrading to Ferrofibrous), and mounting the -1L's loadout of 1LL and 2ML. even with single heatsinks it would be very useful. it actually gets tougher (the FF armor leaves it with more armor than it had before the switch, even with the loss of half a ton), and it's firepower would be pretty much the same as a p-hawk. making it a useful scout hunter. and it only increases the C-bill cost by about half a million. :)

Nice, simple upgrade. Me likes.
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Black_Knyght

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger
« Reply #59 on: 19 February 2016, 00:02:29 »
actually, at one point i made a very useful charger by just giving the -1A1 Endosteel, dropping half a ton of armor (and upgrading to Ferrofibrous), and mounting the -1L's loadout of 1LL and 2ML. even with single heatsinks it would be very useful. it actually gets tougher (the FF armor leaves it with more armor than it had before the switch, even with the loss of half a ton), and it's firepower would be pretty much the same as a p-hawk. making it a useful scout hunter. and it only increases the C-bill cost by about half a million. :)

Not bad. It'd be a nightmare for some scout thinking it'll be facing it's counterpart or something heavier it could out maneuver. And nothing most scouts mount in terms of weaponry would have much effect on this scout headhunter.

 

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