'Mech of the Week: CGR-XXX Charger

[Scotty]

A unit may only be the target of one charge or DFA per round.  Chargers explicitly may not gang up with multiple charges on single targets.

[Giovanni Blasini]

Could one charge and the others just do physical attacks?

[Kit deSummersville]

Could one charge and the others just do physical attacks?

They'd be cheering!

[Scotty]

Blah, blah, blah, Alpha Strike this Alpha Strike that...

...Okay, the discount on units which can only shoot in Short range is an absurd idea. I've abused this to its limit with the Fire Moth H (A unit with a 26" movement that can deal 5 Short, yet is somehow under 15 points?), but the basic Charger shows the ridiculousness of it.

This discount only applies to units too slow to exploit range bands with ease. 

If unit has 6 to 10” of Move, but only delivers damage at
Short range: Multiply its PV Subtotal by 0.75.
If unit has 2 to 5” of Move, but only delivers damage at Short
range: Multiply its PV Subtotal by 0.5.
If unit has 2 to 5” of Move, but only delivers damage at Short
and Medium range: Multiply its PV Subtotal by 0.75.

The Fire Moth H does not meet any of those qualifications, and thus is not subject to the modified PV total.

Offensive: 5.5 [5 (guns) + 0.5 (SZ)]
Defensive: 7.75 [3.25 (MV) + 4.5 ((2 [armor] + 1 [structure]) * 1.4 (Defense Factor) = 4.2 -> 4.5)]

Total: 13.25, which rounds to the nearest whole point.

[Wrangler]

Is there any info on where the CGR-SB orgins?

[Scotty]

Out of character?  It appeared in one of the BattleTechnology issues designed by a mercenary tech.  This has not been republished in fully canon sources to my knowledge, but the availability on the MUL supports that origin.

[Wrangler]

With the Combat Manuals coming out, I was hoping to see sign of their Orin's since the Merc book showed variants available to the Merc faction.

[iamfanboy]

Awh, darnit, meant to edit out that mistake - I found out it WAS a mistake when I went to see what the CGR-1A1 would cost without it, but I forgot. *sigh*

My problem with the 'discount' idea is this: If you're doing the formula right, you're getting EXACTLY what you paid for. If that leads to a unit with 1 Short damage and 2" movement costing 5 points, then that's exactly the capability you pay for. Throwing a discount pity party only unbalances the formula.

Hmmm, I wonder how much it would cost me to add a lance of Chargers to each of my IS OpFors... at a mere 72 points for the whole lance, it'd add a nice cheap touch to them.

[Giovanni Blasini]

Is it wrong that I still want to paint up company in San Diego Chargers colors?  I imagine they would be about as effective as the team was last year.

[Scotty]

Awh, darnit, meant to edit out that mistake - I found out it WAS a mistake when I went to see what the CGR-1A1 would cost without it, but I forgot. *sigh*

My problem with the 'discount' idea is this: If you're doing the formula right, you're getting EXACTLY what you paid for. If that leads to a unit with 1 Short damage and 2" movement costing 5 points, then that's exactly the capability you pay for. Throwing a discount pity party only unbalances the formula.

Hmmm, I wonder how much it would cost me to add a lance of Chargers to each of my IS OpFors... at a mere 72 points for the whole lance, it'd add a nice cheap touch to them.

The reason for it is that "what you pay for" starts to break down at extreme ends of the scale, much like with BV.  A 'Mech with 20 Medium range damage (which... might be technically possible?) is going to be stupidly expensive, and flat out will not perform to the cost of it, because 20 Medium range damage is enough to kill most units in the game with damage to spare - all of it wasted that you've paid for but aren't getting to use.

It's the same with units largely incapable of moving into weapons range.  Without the discount, you're paying for damage you're not likely to get to use.  Without said discount, dozens of battle armor and infantry units would be significantly more expensive.  The Charger is an interesting edge case of an edge case (corner case?) where its sudden cost effectiveness makes up for most of its lack of damage.

I think it's pretty interesting that the Charger is only cost effective against units slower than it is.  Depending on initiative, obviously, it's entirely possible to never give a Charger an opportunity to enact a charge or a melee attack with a unit 10" or faster.  It's a weird reversal from the tabletop, where smaller and lighter units were all a Charger could hope to reasonably tackle, but Marauders and other 3025 Heavies with 8" move or fewer are an Alpha Strike Charger's ideal prey.

[Frabby]

Is there any info on where the CGR-SB orgins?

Sarna is your friend. To paraphrase, the CGR-SB Challenger is a field refit devised by mercenary tech Stuart Bell, according to the now apocryphal BattleTechnology magazine (as Scotty wrote). However, it was also included in Record Sheets: Assault 'Mechs as the CGR-SB, making it fully canon under that name. Finally, a later Black Widow pilots an unnamed Charger variant that's essentially an underweight -SB.

[Wrangler]

Sarna is your friend. To paraphrase, the CGR-SB Challenger is a field refit devised by mercenary tech Stuart Bell, according to the now apocryphal BattleTechnology magazine (as Scotty wrote). However, it was also included in Record Sheets: Assault 'Mechs as the CGR-SB, making it fully canon under that name. Finally, a later Black Widow pilots an unnamed Charger variant that's essentially an underweight -SB.

I was looking for canon information since the new Combat Manuals are giving out common variants in use.  SB isn't among the variants for the Charger in the book. Thus why i'm poking finger in wonder if going show up at all or it's too rare to say.

[Giovanni Blasini]

You know, one thing worth noting is that, by the end of the Jihad, the CGR-1A1 was extinct, per the MUL.  I would presume the remaining 'Mechs had been refit to other standards, including the -2A2.

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Is it wrong that I still want to paint up company in San Diego Chargers colors?  I imagine they would be about as effective as the team was last year.

Well that would be an entire team of one handed players...

[UnLimiTeD]

As far as I've gathered, AS assigns point values solely on singular capabilities, irrespective of what else the unit has, and is thus easy to game.
Though normally a no-offense unit should suffer from that.
I totally want to try that out now, though.
Definitely my cup of tea.
Then again, I did that one game where I spent my entire BV on lining the bottom of the map with field gun platoons....

[gyedid]

What are the in-universe intro dates of the Charger, Exterminator, and Spartan, respectively?

cheers,

Gabe

[Giovanni Blasini]

2665, 2630, 2765.

[gyedid]

2665, 2630, 2765.

Great, thanks.  So the Star League already knew that to get respectable performance out of such an over-engined 'Mech required an XL engine.  The Spartan's very late intro date makes sense given its' primary weapon system is an ER PPC, and fluffed as being more heat-efficient than other ER PPCs.

cheers,

Gabe

[Scotty]

What are the in-universe intro dates of the Charger, Exterminator, and Spartan, respectively?

cheers,

Gabe

In the future, this information is easily and readily available on the Master Unit List.

[skiltao]

No, the SLDF just moved on, otherwise it kills some of the charm of the 'Mech's history.

I agree, but the 20 Year Update remarks that the Draconis Combine is using Charger variants (presumably the -1A9 mentioned in TR:3050) similar to ones in the ComGuard. I don't think I've ever seen these ComStar models elaborated on, which would leave their origin an open question.

[marauder648]

Great article, I never really viewed the Charger as useful, its weapons/engine mix was simply incompatible with being much, but using it as a Zombie is quite clever, as you said, as long as you've got its chest, its head and legs, its still a weapon

[Moonsword]

You know, one thing worth noting is that, by the end of the Jihad, the CGR-1A1 was extinct, per the MUL.  I would presume the remaining 'Mechs had been refit to other standards, including the -2A2.

Another major factor is that production of that specific variant was discontinued by the War of 3039 and the line diverted to the CGR-1A9 and Hatamoto production.  The DCMS probably did a lot of refits to CGR-1A9s from 1A1s over time, too, or sold them to the Capellans, who turned them into 1A5s.

[Nahuris]

If you really want a fun battle, run an interception scenario -- have a lance of mechs with stolen data, but have the data in the Charger, and have that lance intercepted with an equal BV lance trying to stop them...... and don't tell the second lance player that one of the mechs is a Charger.
Seriously, as long as you have something left of the head, CT and legs, that Charger will keep moving towards the map edge to deliver the data.....

Nahuris

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

But that's equally true of any mech with a standard engine.

[Scotty]

Most 'Mechs with standard engines don't have the combination of speed and durability that an 80 ton frame gives you, especially for a 'Mech that cheap in BV (which was part of the scenario supplied).

[Nahuris]

Thing is, in the 3025 book, where the original 1A1 was first published, it was faster than most heavies, and rivaled some of the mediums for firepower. Any mech fast enough to intercept one, was also, usually, fragile enough that it didn't want to be on the receiving end of a charge from the Charger.
Meanwhile, it's a durable 80 ton design, with nothing that explodes, in it. By itself, it's an inferior design... but when considered as part of a team, especially in the era of single heatsinks and average 4 gunners, and it can actually do it's job of scouting and bringing data home. Anyone that is fast enough to intercept it, is going to try and stay at least 10 or more away, to pick it apart, and avoid physicals.... which means medium or longer range, on something that can generate a +3 mod, running flat out.

When you give it some support, and let it just do the job of getting data, it really can be a solid member of a lance. It can also bodyguard fire support designs, because anything getting back there, to mess with with your long range stuff, probably doesn't want to be on the receiving end of an 80 ton tackler looking to make personal fouls.

Nahuris

[SteelRaven]

Thing is, in the 3025 book, where the original 1A1 was first published, it was faster than most heavies, and rivaled some of the mediums for firepower...

Nahuris

... 15 damage if you hit with all 5 Small Lasers within the 3 Hex range.

The 20 ton Wasp-1W carries 6 Small Lasers. 

[nerd]

>snip<
This is something that I now do want to test out. And do one of those time-lapse videos shot from above the table. With Yakety Sax playing in the background.

Here's the tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnHmskwqCCQ

[Scotty]

... 15 damage if you hit with all 5 Small Lasers within the 3 Hex range.

The 20 ton Wasp-1W carries 6 Small Lasers.

The 20 ton Wasp-1W breaches to internal structure on every single section against a punch from a Charger-1A1, and a charge is fully capable of removing every single point of armor from the 'Mech (and then some).

You could probably pick a better counter-example. ;)

[Spinosapper]

The CGR-1L is certainly a poor mech and a horribly inefficient use of resources.

In universe, if I'm a mechwarrior assigned to a militia to protect some not-so-important facility/warehouse/silo/town/backwater planet from the occasional raid, I'm probably expecting to get a bug mech or urbanmech.  I wouldn't complain too much if I found myself with a CGR-1L instead.  It's no phoenix hawk or vindicator, but it'll do if your opposition is most likely gonna be pirate light mechs held together with baling wire and duct tape. 

Just a thought.  Having so much internal structure, it's quite tough.  If it were to slug it out with a stock hunchback, it could take quite a few hits.  Even when the hunchback comes out victorious, its lancemates are going to look at the mechwarrior and go, "dude, you just used most of your ammo shooting a charger..."