Author Topic: Hell's Horses Bondsmen  (Read 2068 times)

Colt Ward

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Hell's Horses Bondsmen
« on: 31 October 2018, 09:36:32 »
For any Horses' armor or plain infantry taken as bondsmen by the IS (or Ghost Bear I guess since they also do second test as well), would they stay with their branch or try to get back to their original track?  Which would garner more glory that might get them noticed by their Clan?

Say armor gunner Jimmy Horse is taken as a bondsman in a Lyran raid against the Horses, a probe to test the new Clan in the IS.  It is fought like a normal Trial and Jimmy recognizes he is a bondsman to officer whoever in the LCAF.  Now Jimmy washed out of the mech program say a year before he would have taken a Trial of Position for whatever reason, but his gunnery skills were first rate which is why he got re-trained for armor.  Does Jimmy try to become a Mechwarrior in the LCAF or stay a treadhead?

Same sort of deal for the Elemental bloodlines who become standard infantry?
Colt Ward
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truetanker

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Re: Hell's Horses Bondsmen
« Reply #1 on: 31 October 2018, 13:52:29 »
Well If Jimmy could prove he can pilot a mech, either captured or claimed Isola, then he could. But until then, he's a tanker!

And as for ex-Elemetals? If they don't have a suit that'll fit them, then PBI is the next step, again until captured or Isola...

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VensersRevenge

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Re: Hell's Horses Bondsmen
« Reply #2 on: 31 October 2018, 14:33:36 »
If I had an Elemental bondsman, I would probably be using him as a BA trainer. The Clans have a couple hundred years advantage in BA tactics.
...Is this just fantasy?
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Colt Ward

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Re: Hell's Horses Bondsmen
« Reply #3 on: 31 October 2018, 15:37:39 »
Sure, but the guy/gal in my supposition was captured in the role of a traditional infantry trooper.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

VensersRevenge

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Re: Hell's Horses Bondsmen
« Reply #4 on: 31 October 2018, 15:50:43 »
Sure, but the guy/gal in my supposition was captured in the role of a traditional infantry trooper.
Sorry, I misunderstood. If the faction capturing them knows about the Hell's Horses reputation for conventional warfare, I would still say a training role is best. But if they don't, the bondsman would probably be interrogated for information then used on the front lines.
...Is this just fantasy?
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Hell's Horses Bondsmen
« Reply #5 on: 31 October 2018, 23:00:30 »

Say armor gunner Jimmy Horse is taken as a bondsman in a Lyran raid against the Horses, a probe to test the new Clan in the IS.  It is fought like a normal Trial and Jimmy recognizes he is a bondsman to officer whoever in the LCAF. 

I don't see a Lyran officer putting a bondscord on Jimmy Horse. and I don't see the LCAF recognizing Jimmy Horse as a member of its military (bondsman or otherwise).  The LCAF is a Spheroid military, not a Clan touman.  The LCAF has no legal precedent or military tradition for integrating captured enemy soldiers (Clan or otherwise) into its regiments, nevertheless trusting them in the field.  Jimmy Horse has become a POW, not a bondsman.

(That said, I'm sure someone will quote a rule-of-cool exception where some Spheroid military takes on some Clan hero as a bondsman in the fluff of a novel or some other reference.  But I'd contend that makes no sense and should not be considered a standard or regular occurence, even if it's technically canon.)

Similarly, depending on his politics, prejudices, and preconceptions, Jimmy Horse may not recognize the authority of a barbaric, non-Clan, Spheroid power (especially those money-grubbing Elsies!) to make him a bondsman.

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Does Jimmy try to become a Mechwarrior in the LCAF or stay a treadhead?

Same sort of deal for the Elemental bloodlines who become standard infantry?

I hate to say it as a Horse fan, but absent some very limited exceptions with specific factions, often only in certain time periods, I don't think Horse tankers and conventional infantry have opportunities to become bondsmen.  As already described, most Spheroid and Periphery factions don't (or shouldn't) take bondsmen.  And most Clan factions lack enough quality armor and infantry assets to desire these Horse bondsmen in their toumans -- they have enough of their own solahma and test-downs to fill these low-priority roles.

A few possible exceptions:

-- Steel Viper conventional infantry in all eras (Vipers use large numbers of non-solahma conventional infantry in their second-line units, especially their Fang and Legion clusters)

-- Wolf armor during the Dark Age (if the Wolves were willing to take on Lyran armor units, they'd certainly take Horse armor)

-- Clan-affiliated mercenaries in all eras (Wolf's Dragoons and the like took Jaguar bondsmen, understood how to use them, and lacked the Clan prejudice against armor and conventional infantry)

-- Desperate Clans near extinction (Jaguars during Serpent, Cats during whatever Combine/Dominion war, Spirits during WoR, etc.)

-- Society and Bandit Caste

There may be others, but I think they would be fairly limited exceptions.

Even the Bears have ample access to test-downs of their own -- it's hard to see the Bears using Horse bondsmen to fill their Phalanx clusters when so many of their own sibkin fail trials of position all the time.

Of course, whatever works for your own headcannon and game.

« Last Edit: 31 October 2018, 23:07:34 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
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Colt Ward

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Re: Hell's Horses Bondsmen
« Reply #6 on: 01 November 2018, 10:07:20 »
The IS took them as bondsmen as part of the interrogation process- though letting them become warriors in their own military varied, we hear more about it happening with mercs.  IIRC they took Falcons bondsmen on Twycross the first time, in '57 Trevana took a Falcon warrior bondsman on Coventry, Serpent had the Ghost Bears they captured on the way to Huntress, various IS powers took bondsmen during Bulldog, and I think others besides the Warden Wolves took Falcons during the Incursion.

They call themselves bondsmen b/c that is their world view, while the IS considers them weird PoWs- and does not always know what to do with them, reference the Jag POW camps on Dieron in the late 60s.  We really do not know if any of them ever made it back to warrior status- except for Victor's bodyguard.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Hell's Horses Bondsmen
« Reply #7 on: 01 November 2018, 12:40:34 »
We really do not know if any of them ever made it back to warrior status- except for Victor's bodyguard.

Yeah, aside from some Jags in Wolf's Dragoons and (I think) some Falcons in Snord's Irregulars, she is the one possible exception in the canon that came to my mind.  But I'm not sure she was a member of the AFFS or ComGuard.  I think she was more the personal bodyguard of a celebrity member of a Great House who also happened to be the commander the AFFS and ComGuard.

99.99...% of AFFS and ComGuard officers do not stand to inherit leadership of a Great House.  They lack the authority and resources to take on a personal bodyguard, Clan or otherwise, nevertheless make a former enemy a member of their military.

At least in my headcannon...

"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Colt Ward

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Re: Hell's Horses Bondsmen
« Reply #8 on: 01 November 2018, 13:37:32 »
I think we have a few other cases of bondsmen becoming warriors again even if its in House militaries.  For instance, the Republic took in Clan units in, settled the warriors & their civilians, and warriors joined the military ranks.  Clan warriors fought on Solaris VII in the 3060s.  The Raging Horde- mercs founded by Clan warriors, staffed by Clan warriors- executed several contracts in the 3060s before losses forced them to include Inner Sphere recruits.  Jaffray's Jaguar bondsman fought for him in the deception against his old Clan.  The mercs that ended up out in Castile for a BC serial had a Nova Cat warrior.  Mercs seemed more open to having Clan warriors regain status, but that is very likely a cultural thing.  Might be other examples but like I said we do not really hear of too many making it back b/c they are not POV characters or near them.

But the question was not about the IS letting him become a warrior, but about what the Horse bondsmen would do having been a test down.  Would he try to regain his original branch, or stay with his test down?
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Hell's Horses Bondsmen
« Reply #9 on: 01 November 2018, 16:01:38 »
For instance, the Republic took in Clan units in, settled the warriors & their civilians, and warriors joined the military ranks.

They are not bondsmen.  The Republic and various Clans fought together against the Blakist threat.  The Republic did not fight these Clans as enemies.  There was no opportunity to capture and take these Clan warriors as bondsmen even if the Republic wanted to.  These Clans and warriors willingly chose to join the Republic.

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Clan warriors fought on Solaris VII in the 3060s.

No Solaris stable fought these Clan warriors as enemies and took them as bondsmen.  These Clan warriors chose the gladiator lifestyle (probably because they were dezgra or solahma and had few other options).

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The Raging Horde- mercs founded by Clan warriors, staffed by Clan warriors

Again, not bondsmen.  These Clan warriors chose the mercenary lifestyle mostly out of Nova Cat visions.

Quote
Jaffray's Jaguar bondsman fought for him in the deception against his old Clan.  The mercs that ended up out in Castile for a BC serial had a Nova Cat warrior.  Mercs seemed more open to having Clan warriors regain status, but that is very likely a cultural thing.  Might be other examples but like I said we do not really hear of too many making it back b/c they are not POV characters or near them.

I'd say that mercs take bondsmen partly because some mercs have Clan origins/affiliations and partly because mercs generally exist in a nebulous limbo of law and military tradition where anything can go (or at least more can go) relative to standard military regulations.

The latter may also hold true to a lesser degree for black ops units like Jaffray's Death Commandos.

But regular House and most Periphery militaries come from societies and legal traditions that abhor human ownership/slavery and from military traditions that understand captured soldiers as prisoners, not recruits.

It just doesn't make sense.  No Lyran officer is going to trust a Clan warrior he captured a few weeks ago to be put under his command.  And whatever the Lyran JAG is called isn't going to let Lyran officers keep Clan warriors as wartime servants. 

But rule of cool and all that.  If your Lyran social general needs a pet unit of Horse tankers, go for it.

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But the question was not about the IS letting him become a warrior, but about what the Horse bondsmen would do having been a test down.  Would he try to regain his original branch, or stay with his test down?

I'd say it depends on the character and unit in question.

If Jimmy Horse is a driven, me-first type of personality with no particular loyalty to his Clan -- and especially if he holds a grudge about failing his trial of position -- yeah, he probably would argue to the merc unit that captured him that he could a better job piloting their Clantech Black Hawk than any of them could.

But if Jimmy Horse was cowed by his trial of position or just wants to get back to his Clan -- then he'd probably wouldn't push for a position in the merc unit's mech battalion.

Honestly, it's probably gonna come down to the merc unit, not Jimmy Horse.  If the merc unit is desperate for mechwarrior talent, then they're gonna push Jimmy Horse into a cockpit.  But life is cheap and battlemechs aren't, so most likely, the merc unit will have plenty of qualified mechwarriors who have dibs on the next cockpit opening without resorting to their Horse tanker POW or bondsman.
« Last Edit: 01 November 2018, 17:17:33 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."