Sell me on Alpha Strike.

[General308]

So sell me on alpha strike.   I have played BT for forever.  I am not afraid to play large games with BT.  So sell me on this game?  What are the pro's and con's with it?  What will I feel I am losing with Alpha Strike?

[Son of Kerenski]

One shot kills. Headshots or golden BBs.

I don't miss them one bit.

Pros:

SPA's to make the game a bit more interesting and tactical than straight pilots.

You can get a company vs company done in 2 hours or less instead of it taking the majority of a day.

Aerospace and Artillery are easier to integrate into a game.

Fast Lights have become more dangerous in AS due to their ability to get behind and do serious damage to slower Heavies and Assaults.

Cons:

I can't really think of any - I don't see any myself. I prefer simplicity so that might be a major con if you prefer a more in-depth experience with crits and locations.

[Valkerie]

Pretty much in agreement.  Other Pros:

3-D terrain can really bring the game together

Large scale unit tactics are possible (more so than Classic)

Overall, far less tables to look up (if that matters to you and your players)

After finishing off our first AS campaign, the one change I'll be making (aside from the new rule changes) will be adding in the Variable Damage Rules where you roll 2D6 for each point of damage.  Seems more proper and gives that "tip of the hat" to Classic.

[General308]

Pretty much in agreement.  Other Pros:

3-D terrain can really bring the game together

Large scale unit tactics are possible (more so than Classic)

Overall, far less tables to look up (if that matters to you and your players)

After finishing off our first AS campaign, the one change I'll be making (aside from the new rule changes) will be adding in the Variable Damage Rules where you roll 2D6 for each point of damage.  Seems more proper and gives that "tip of the hat" to Classic.

How large of games have you played

[Bedwyr]

Chiming in, I've gotten the win conditions on regiment vs. regiment done in 4-5 hours (not annihilation).

[Valkerie]

How large of games have you played

Largest one was the closeout game a few weeks ago.  Players had just over two companies of units on the field.  OpFor outnumbered them (on purpose) and had close to a battalion on the field.  Game was objective based and the OpFor had a delayed deployment.

Typical games were around a company per side for the earlier matches.

[Sartris]

What will I feel I am losing with Alpha Strike?

it depends on what you value and like in the classic rules. i really like playing with the little gaps in weapon ranges like that 15th hex on the gauss' medium band. AS (out of necessity) flattens them. if you don't like big stick units like the hollander for the all-or-nothing damage, the single attack per unit can get frustrating if you go on a streak and miss a ton of shots, especially if it's to wipe that one unit with two structure left that's standing right. on. the. objective. i'm not bitter at all i didn't want to kill that akuma anyway. the other thing that can be annoying at first is the mutual modifiers. if you're standing in woods (even on the edge), you take the shooting penalty as well as your opponent. same as partial cover (forgive me for my ignorance if this was changed in CE).

overall it's a good system that has improved immensely since the first printing. it plays fast and has a lot of flexibility. the variable damage does give a bit more back in terms of durability, especially if that jerk friend of yours keeps hitting your lights on 10s with his 5 medium range damage heavy.

[Valkerie]

the other thing that can be annoying at first is the mutual modifiers. if you're standing in woods (even on the edge), you take the shooting penalty as well as your opponent. same as partial cover (forgive me for my ignorance if this was changed in CE).

Forgot about that woods detail.  Although with the new +1 modifier instead of +2 for woods (and partial cover) it should play better.

[General308]

Chiming in, I've gotten the win conditions on regiment vs. regiment done in 4-5 hours (not annihilation).

Playing at this scale intrest me

[Bedwyr]

Playing at this scale intrest me

Yeah, the bigger unit games really begin to shine on AS. Small unit games (lance-company) are still fine, just more like doing a small Warmachine skirmish for 20-40 minutes. I still like the old Battleforce idea of staging in and out, using AS to resolve larger unit actions and BT for smaller or more critical moments.

[Scotty]

Some correction Sartris: partial cover is not reciprocal by definition, it's just frequently reciprocal by result.  Partial cover is always measured from the shooting unit to the defending unit, and a unit receiving partial cover is absolutely able to return fire against a unit that is not.  What is reciprocal is full cover, which means no Line of Sight.  That has to reciprocal and checked both ways during shooting because otherwise you have the situation where the player who lost initiative could declare they have a target in the open, but is more than 2/3rds blocked from return fire and an asymmetrical LOS issue crops up (which is anathema in BattleTech).

Woods is indeed reciprocal, mostly to solve the problem of "my Assault Lance shimmies one inch to the left in unison on the edge of the tree-line" that would cause some pretty significant balance issues between small and large targets.  Both modifiers (partial cover and woods) have been reduced from +2 to +1 in the Commander's Edition.

@The OP.  Why you should play Alpha Strike:

• You have hundreds of miniatures and want to show off more than a dozen at a time.
• You don't have three hours to play a relatively large game of Total Warfare
• Hex maps are optional; you can use them if you have them, but you can also play on pop-up terrain like books and a bare table-top in a pinch.  It's travel-capable.
• Full-color laminated Alpha Strike cards look damn fine and there is no record sheet equivalent.
• A full table of magnificent 3D terrain is going to impress a lot more people walking by than hexmaps, no matter how shiny or cool.
• The math is easier.  Even if you find Total Warfare's math easy in the first place (most of it is), easier is usually a bonus in that regard.
• That One Guy in your group that spends 5 minutes plotting the perfect move with each Locust can just move a little bit to get full TMM and not slow the entire game down by an hour.
• Maneuver and tactics retain a high individual-unit impact but the number of units is increased, making for a much more dynamic and fluid game than the relatively rigid process of Total Warfare.

Some of those are fairly glib or not entirely serious.  To be entirely serious, Alpha Strike surpasses Total Warfare and excels in the categories of speed of play, simplicity of play, size of game (larger), and relative effect on the game per move/turn.  A little over 90% of the Alpha Strike games that I have played or presided over come to a natural conclusion after between 5 and 6 turns.  The ones that don't usually ended due to time a turn or so before that, or went on a turn or two longer because the opening or ending of the game featured a weird run of luck or lack of line of sight.  That means that each unit that moves and each attack conducted has a significant effect on the resolution of the entire game.  A Mad Cat that hits/misses a single attack can change the entire course of the outcome (as can anything else), and the odds of a given action succeeding are manipulable by players in multiple ways from force composition to in-the-moment tactics.

Between two players of similar skill and good familiarity with the rules, that don't spend half an hour getting side-tracked by discussion and debate about things not even happening in the game, I usually see games between full companies (400-600 PV) end in about two hours.  Games between full battalions (1250-1800 PV) might take five or six.  For the record that's playing to completion, not to a point where it's clear to both players who is winning and the rest of the game is a slow-motion unveiling of the results.

Combined arms is incredibly easy to use in Alpha Strike, to such an extent that artillery and aerospace fighter support are included at the standard level (both with Battlefield Support options similar to the BattleMech Manual, and as on-board units with their own moves and attacks).  Vehicles and infantry can be added fluidly and with very little interruption to handle different mechanics.  Transporting infantry in particular is incredibly easy and intuitive, and using even foot/ground-bound infantry to impact the game beyond ground control is not only entirely possible, it's very nearly the default state of the game.

[Bedwyr]

Games between full battalions (1250-1800 PV) might take five or six.  For the record that's playing to completion, not to a point where it's clear to both players who is winning and the rest of the game is a slow-motion unveiling of the results.

Reiterating this to make sure it's clear that my regimental games have come out below that time precisely because there were set win conditions.

[General308]

How well does it work if you also want to play RPG with it and how does salvage work for campaigns with it being a less detailed game?

[Valkerie]

Fairly well I think.  The salvage rules in the original rulebook and the Companion are again, streamlined versions of the Classic versions.  We used the salvage rules (when applicable) and it went well.  RPG wise we were very, very light, so I can't comment there.  However, I can't see why it wouldn't work any less than Classic.

I will backup the idea of using AS for large engagements, but then breaking off into Classic for some smaller, detailed operations.

[General308]

Fairly well I think.  The salvage rules in the original rulebook and the Companion are again, streamlined versions of the Classic versions.  We used the salvage rules (when applicable) and it went well.  RPG wise we were very, very light, so I can't comment there.  However, I can't see why it wouldn't work any less than Classic.

I will backup the idea of using AS for large engagements, but then breaking off into Classic for some smaller, detailed operations.

Well we run a 20 year old campaign that we enjoy.  What I want to do is the main characters units keep with BattleTech.   But the larger noncharacter units were the detail doesn't matter as much maybe move to alpha strike.  So more time is focused on the main campaign not the non character units.

[Scotty]

How well does it work if you also want to play RPG with it and how does salvage work for campaigns with it being a less detailed game?

There are campaign rules in the Alpha Strike Companion.  They are based primarily on the Chaos Campaign rules and use SP/WP.  Converting skills from Total Warfare (or AToW) is relatively simple: there are two schools on how to handle it, either Gunnery Skill = Alpha Strike Skill (since there's only one skill rating in AS), or the average of Gunnery and Piloting rounded down = Alpha Strike Skill.

Salvage is based on the relative skill of your tech force, and at least in the Companion (as opposed to whatever product Chaos Campaign uses), a Regular tech crew will have salvage results for all units (that weren't destroyed by methods rendering them unsalvageable like ammo explosions or crashing into the ground in the case of aerospace units) be 2-6 = unsalvageable, 7-8 = scrap parts only, 9+ = can be fully repaired.  I tend to GM-rule that if a unit was destroyed by a critical hit roll of 12 ("Unit Destroyed") that it is automatically eligible to be fully repaired without a roll to check for it.

Pilot death is intimidating for some people who see how fast units die in Alpha Strike but haven't had a chance to check how the system works.  When a scenario is over, each pilot makes a "Diagnostic Roll" to determine their status at the end of the game.  If a unit took no damage, the roll is not required.  The roll includes:

- The unit's skill level
- If the unit was destroyed, a penalty to the roll
- A penalty for each half of armor destroyed (stacks)
- A penalty for each half of structure destroyed (stacks)
- A modifier for different kinds of units - a Mech is more likely to preserve the pilot than a battle armor suit.
- Checking if the unit was destroyed by ammo explosion or crashing into the ground.
- Was the pilot/crew already wounded at the start of the game

At the end of it all a Regular skill MechWarrior usually needs a 10 on the roll.  Success means that the pilot is completely unharmed, and there is nothing stopping them from trotting back out at full strength.  Failure by a margin of less than 5 means that the pilot is injuried, which can affect injury rolls if you send them back out again.  Failure by 5 or more means you need a new pilot, this one is dead.

[Sartris]

Some correction Sartris: partial cover is not reciprocal by definition, it's just frequently reciprocal by result. 

observation: i was playing the game wrong

[Two Guns Blazing]

After finishing off our first AS campaign, the one change I'll be making (aside from the new rule changes) will be adding in the Variable Damage Rules where you roll 2D6 for each point of damage.  Seems more proper and gives that "tip of the hat" to Classic.

I always use Variable Damage as well (4+ on a D6 for each point of damage). The other rule that I find lends some small amount of CBT flavour to AS, for me at least, is giving every Mech the Multi-Trac Positive Design Quirk from the AS Companion. It gives me the feeling that I am actually choosing different weapons to fire at different targets, rather than Alpha Striking everyone. It can slightly slow the game down in some respects (more analysis paralysis and more rolling), however it can also speed the game up a little in other ways as some Heavies and Assaults can actually wreck a pair of Lights in a single turn, on occasion. This, or something similar may exist in the ASCE, and although I do own it in both PDF and hard copy, I've not thoroughly devoured it yet so I'm not sure...

Multi-Trac
A unit with this Quirk may choose to divide its ranged weapon damage in half (rounding the final value down, to a minimum of 1 point) and direct each “half-damage” attack
against a separate target in the same turn. Each attack is resolved using all of the modifiers applicable to that target; no secondary target modifiers will apply to either attack.

[BlCharger]

Alpha Strike is a nice, faster-paced version of Battletech. You can get larger battles accomplished in a reasonable amount of time.

Last night, we wrapped up our 3025 pirate campaign. It started out as a vehicle lance vs a heavy 'Mech pirate lance. Before we knew it, the OpFor (my side) had a House Dai Da Chi company arriving. Then the pirates got a company including an Assault Lance (Atlas, Stalker, Cyclops, Banshee). 3 turns later, a third party showed up that turned out to secretly be the ComGuard. The ComGuard had a nasty company and it turned into a 3-way battle.

We got it all done in 4.5 or so hours. Alpha Strike is a lot of fun, imo. Total Warfare is better suited to smaller battles. Alpha Strike, larger ones.

Scotty mentioned 3d terrain. Here is a link to another battle we ran.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=65558.0

[winters_night]

Yeah I mean.. when's the last time you've really wanted to  play Battletech with more than say 4 machines? The games get to long and encumbered with all the dice rolling and damage tracking.

Really looking forward to playing more Alpha Strike myself, always been dying to get in some company scale games on the tabletop vs megamek

[General308]

How does artillery and areo fighters play in the game?

[Scotty]

Artillery is easy: you fire at a point of impact or a unit (Point of impact is almost always better), roll to hit.  If it doesn't hit, scatter with a d6, then d6" distance (twice that for artillery cannons, I think?  I don't remember off hand).  Bigger artillery does bigger damage.

Aerospace fighters draw a flightpath across the board and pick an altitude: low, middle, high, and extreme.  The altitude determines their range to units both on and off their flight path, and what attacks they can make (Dive Bombing is low/middle, altitude bombing is high/extreme, etc.).  If a fighter takes damage during a turn, make a control roll (one such roll per turn; more are possible with crits).  If it fails, drop one altitude and can't go higher than the new altitude next turn.  If already at low, lawn dart, unit destroyed.

Artillery doesn't take terribly long if you're using the standard rules; advanced rules include things like flight times that make it longer to resolve.  Aerospace is usually pretty quick outside of multiple fighters strafing multiple targets.

[ironnerd88]

So sell me on alpha strike.   I have played BT for forever.  I am not afraid to play large games with BT.  So sell me on this game?  What are the pro's and con's with it?  What will I feel I am losing with Alpha Strike?

You've been playing Battletech: The Motion Picture, with Alpha Strike you'll be playing Battletech: The Animated Series. Both are very enjoyable, and Alpha Strike gives a simplified presentation of Battletech, is a lot faster, and mostly feels something like Battletech. In exchange for that very fast game play, you will lose a lot of detail. If you are not playing with miniatures, you will have an additional layer of (really easy) conversion to contend with.

Interestingly enough Alpha Strike is supposed to be simplified Battletech, yet it is a larger body of rules than either my Rules of Warfare or Compendium, although they cover the same combat types.

[General308]

One other question is there any software that supports custom units for alpha strike?

[Thunder]

Mech factory has some support.

The MUL has a page that lets you generate custom cards for most things, but its up to you to plug in the values correctly.

[General308]

Mech factory has some support.

The MUL has a page that lets you generate custom cards for most things, but its up to you to plug in the values correctly.

I am ok with that

[victor_shaw]

I always use Variable Damage as well (4+ on a D6 for each point of damage). The other rule that I find lends some small amount of CBT flavour to AS, for me at least, is giving every Mech the Multi-Trac Positive Design Quirk from the AS Companion. It gives me the feeling that I am actually choosing different weapons to fire at different targets, rather than Alpha Striking everyone. It can slightly slow the game down in some respects (more analysis paralysis and more rolling), however it can also speed the game up a little in other ways as some Heavies and Assaults can actually wreck a pair of Lights in a single turn, on occasion. This, or something similar may exist in the ASCE, and although I do own it in both PDF and hard copy, I've not thoroughly devoured it yet so I'm not sure...

variable damage is (3+) not (4+) per page 175 Battletech Alpha Strike Commander's Edition.

[nckestrel]

Mech factory has some support.

The MUL has a page that lets you generate custom cards for most things, but its up to you to plug in the values correctly.

Last I checked, mech factory was wrong and would rather argue with me that I don’t know what I’m doing rather than fix it.

[Two Guns Blazing]

variable damage is (3+) not (4+) per page 175 Battletech Alpha Strike Commander's Edition.

Copied, I haven't yet read through the ASCE...

[Lboydmsw]

Yeah, the bigger unit games really begin to shine on AS. Small unit games (lance-company) are still fine, just more like doing a small Warmachine skirmish for 20-40 minutes. I still like the old Battleforce idea of staging in and out, using AS to resolve larger unit actions and BT for smaller or more critical moments.

This is actually how I tend to play and use the rules. I really like the battleforce ruleset.  alpha strike actually evolved from the alpha strike quick play rules into it's own thing.  I tend to do 6 units or less with the classic rules (8 if I am ambitious and have a lot of time), battleforce for up to reinforced company sized engagements, and alpha strike for anything past that.  Although, I like alpha strike a lot so use it intermittently just for fun here and there