The process of pirate raid?

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

I am think about to using the random pirate force as the single use cannon fodder, but... how they usually plan to attack the planet then retreat?

I can imagine, they aim for the remote system, jumps(sometimes closer than zenith/nadir), send the dropships, fights if necessary then ship the looted goods, back to the jumpship and jump out.

What I wonder are;
-When does they aim for the world with HPG network? Hyperspace jump leaves great trace and immediately shows that a jumpship enters the system. So, if they aim for the system with HPG, and nearby have any troops to bolster the defense, then they are have to fight out and back to the jumpship before the reinforces are enter the system. Is it means usually they avoid the systems with HPG?
-Will they attacks the contested systems or have active regular military with superior force? If so then how? It seems that it is almost impossible to hide the trace of jump, and the full of military arms(especially for the aerospace) can shut off the upcoming dropship or even try to hunt down the jumpship. How they react against such threat and land their ground force?
 

[Natasha Kerensky]

Even if the world has an HPG, help from nearby systems will still be days to weeks away.  Those forces have to load up on their dropships, transit to their jumpships, jump, and then transit to the planet attacked by the bandits.  Presumably, the bandits will either know how quickly help can arrive from the nearest systems and get out of dodge before that date arrives.  Or the bandits will keep their own watch for incoming jump signatures, pack up, and get away before the cavalry can get dirtside.

Like any military operation, bandit raids rely on intel.  At a minimum, the bandits will pay sources on-planet to count and take pictures of the mechs, fighters, and tanks at the local garrison for any planet the bandits are targeting.  If there’s too many, the bandits will just move on to other targets/planets.

Bandits only get involved in set piece battles when they’ve screwed up.  Otherwise, they only target planets with garrisons that they know can roll, and they make sure that they are off-planet before help can arrive.

[Major Headcase]

X

[pfarland]

Troop movements are a PAIN. Coming from a former soldier, mobilizing a unit takes time and is extremely hard to conceal. Many people are saying good bye's to family and units will often make the local news, even in mildly media restrictive nations. With even semi modern methods that are completely within the modest budgets of small nations, you can keep track of another countries military movements. A Pirate Band with a number of subscriptions to news services could keep decent track of who was where without any additional info.

With an emergence at a Pirate Point you have only HOURS to react. You don't know what they are coming for though. Where do you send your forces, which will still likely be readying by the time they are landing.

[grimlock1]

Troop movements are a PAIN. Coming from a former soldier, mobilizing a unit takes time and is extremely hard to conceal. Many people are saying good bye's to family and units will often make the local news, even in mildly media restrictive nations. With even semi modern methods that are completely within the modest budgets of small nations, you can keep track of another countries military movements. A Pirate Band with a number of subscriptions to news services could keep decent track of who was where without any additional info.

With an emergence at a Pirate Point you have only HOURS to react. You don't know what they are coming for though. Where do you send your forces, which will still likely be readying by the time they are landing.

Even if the pirates come in at a standard jump point, AND there is a QRF, sitting in their dropship, connected to a charged jumpship, one jump away, the pirates will still have a couple hours head start.

If the pirates have stolen transponder code or whatever, then the defender won't even know they are under attack until the dropship deviates from final approach.  Under that case, the pirates have nearly a week's head start over any QRF from outside the star system. 

Many pirates also cover up their real target by sending a portion of thier force to harrass targets the defense cannot afford to ignore; usually civilian locations considering the lack of ethical standards in most pirate organizations, forcing the Defenders to deal with the distraction first while the REAL target is being hit.
I ran a pirate company as the bad guys in a campaign I ran for a few friends some years ago. It was fun being the bad guys!!

One drawback with that plan, and it is a good plan, is recovery of your diversionary force.  Typically, this means relocating your dropship to somewhere close to the diversionary force, which if it has done its job, has attracted the attention of the defender's main forces. 
I don't want to brick the thread but there does exist a unit that is almost perfect for this situation...

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

So they are usually only aim for the most unguarded area, or bold(and well informed) enough to use the pirate point to jump and retreat.... Thanks for the help. So I can have some ideas.

It is also worth considering to using the rogue mercenary too.

[R.Tempest]

 A few thoughts.
 You need there to be a reason for the Pirates to raid. It doesn't have to be a good reason, just good enough to be plausible.
 They certainly need ground intelligence - There's no point in raiding for food before the harvest. You need to know when the ore processing plant is just about ready for a dropship to arrive and load up with refined metal (even better - hijack said dropship before it arrives in system).
 Also, given the lower tech levels on many world's that pirates are likely to raid, a few agent's on the planet could provide the necessary diversions for the raid. Convenient power failures, infrastructure collapse (bridges, tunnels, anything that might require local militia to used for crowd control, S & R, etc.), threatening brush fires. You get the idea.
 Unless the object of the raid is completed military equipment that is unguarded the pirates are going to need a cargo dropship and possibly their own ground forces to move the loot.

[Elmoth]

In the periphery a pirate band usually rules a planet. So the fact that they are pirates and not a legitimate planet ruler that you are in war with, depends largely in how you write things (in the periphery at least).
they are raiding your water supply plant, yeah, or your recent harvest silos, and stealing components yes, because they need it for their planet, but it also puts you in a position to be conquered maybe. They might even be CONTRACTED by the other planet to raid you as a corporatiive raid between 2 grain producing conglomerates that treade with a third industrial planet.

I like when pirates for you are legitimate warriors for the neighbour. And the mercs/pirates are walking a fine line.

[pfarland]

In the periphery a pirate band usually rules a planet. So the fact that they are pirates and not a legitimate planet ruler that you are in war with, depends largely in how you write things (in the periphery at least).
they are raiding your water supply plant, yeah, or your recent harvest silos, and stealing components yes, because they need it for their planet, but it also puts you in a position to be conquered maybe. They might even be CONTRACTED by the other planet to raid you as a corporatiive raid between 2 grain producing conglomerates that treade with a third industrial planet.

I like when pirates for you are legitimate warriors for the neighbour. And the mercs/pirates are walking a fine line.

Actually there aren't many planets that fall under (PIND) or Pirate Independent in the Sarna Unified Cartography. Obviously It varies from time to time, the two largest being right after the fall of the Rim Worlds Republic and in the 3145 time period with 3025 being well behind that.

Almost all pirate bands are at best, based somewhere that ignores them.

[Alan Grant]

FM: Periphery page 124 is a pirate section called "Art of the Bluff."

Basically it spends some time talking about tricking the opposition. False IFF, false transponders. Communications that mislead your opponent as to your size or intended target, insider information that suggests you might be something legit, like a recognized trading vessel.

It emphasizes that for planetary raids, pirate jump points and tricking/confusing the opposition (or somehow avoiding detection) are a must.

Once on the ground pirates have to act very fast.

[pfarland]

FM: Periphery page 124 is a pirate section called "Art of the Bluff."

Basically it spends some time talking about tricking the opposition. False IFF, false transponders. Communications that mislead your opponent as to your size or intended target, insider information that suggests you might be something legit, like a recognized trading vessel.

It emphasizes that for planetary raids, pirate jump points and tricking/confusing the opposition (or somehow avoiding detection) are a must.

Once on the ground pirates have to act very fast.

Really that is any military raid or attack.

[Colt Ward]

So . . . IMO, really one of the best sources for raiding ideas period?  Sounds funny, but its from another game property- West End Game's Pirates & Privateers from the original Star Wars material.  I LOVE that book and its one of the three SW books they produced that I carry information over to other settings.  It gets into a lot of information about how to run a successful operation (aka unit)- FREX, the Alliance privateer (Grey Claw) that is the contact/study for the author discusses two important things for his ship.  He wants his crew to have fresh/good food and they keep the temperature warmer in crew spaces than what would be the norm on a military or commercial ship (though this may not be backed scientifically as a laymen's knowledge of space at the time- it could be said you keep it cooler since the ship has to already radiate away a lot of heat b/c of vacuum).  Why?  Because it keeps crew morale up and lets him retain crew at a higher rate than other ships.

The book covers how to plan a cruise (or raid in our case), finding targets & learning about them (and the importance thereof), what could be considered valuable & to who- how to turn objects into cash, and some discussion of how to avoid law/military responses.



As far as gaining actionable intel . . . gaining information is SO easy . . . its a matter of learning to put the pieces together.  Best example I can think of . . . I worked in a vet hospital years ago.  Our near (as in 15 minutes down the road) base was AF and we had a lot of AF members as clients- besides haircuits it was easy to pick them out since they would come in uniform.  Some knew I was a veteran . . . one told me she was a squadron XO (mostly knew b/c her uniform) . . . a month or so after the conversation she comes in to pick up some supplies for her dog, pay for a service ahead of time, and arrange for someone else to legally sign off on care for her pet.  She was not the first AF person in the last few days . . . so I asked . . . "Squadron's headed to World Hotspot At That Time?"  She looked at me, smiled a bit and gave me Standard Answer #1 to Questions about Mobilization.  I laughed a bit and told her I had said the same thing a time or two in '02 & '03.

So outside a military base . . . suddenly younger people with specific haircuts start making arrangements for their pets and dropping local college/university classes?  Deployment.  Lots of the same type of people start start selling their cars and other property?  Unit is rotating out for another station and they do not want to haul crap.  A single person with the haircut selling stuff?  They are PCS'ing to somewhere else.

Ever watch the movie 'Spy Game' with Brad Pitt and Robert Redford?  During Pitt's training phase they actually cover some of the little details you can pick up to learn about people.

Another base I used to live around, and have to report to, had a interstate highway (probably back to Ike's day) slicing through a edge and a main round that ran along its southern boundary.  People tend to forget that the Interstate Highway system Ike pushed through was, like the digital highway, a national security development that provided  commerical/civilian benefits but that was not what it was built to accomplish.  So it was always amusing to hear civilians in that military city complain about how the highway lay, the way the exits were near the base, and some of the things it caused- if not for the base, the town would have blown away decades ago and never had a highway connection in the first place.  BUT while the highway was built to connect that army base with a AF one to the SW and another AF one to the N, it was also built to prevent casual observation of the cantonment from the highway.  The road cut through a minor hill for part of where it bisected the base, a exit was complicated to keep anyone from exiting the highway on the south side of the base being able to observe the airfield & hangers, training barracks were built up against the highway, and a few other things that seem innocent . . . until you think about WHY and especially IF you had been on base so you knew where things were positioned.

After 60 years, and with the highways being turned over to the state, when a road's over pass was being rebuilt . . . well, the state 'simplified' the exit that was specifically built to prevent any drivers from getting a view on base . . . which just happened to give a view towards the airfield.  I am sure it was cheaper to rebuild the section that way but no one on the planning committee probably ever gave a thought to security.  But someone did . . . the base needed new housing . . . and guess where all the new housing suddenly started being built?  Along that edge of the base, the new duplex housing sprung up as a 'visual' fence to prevent observers from watching the portion of the base that would be visible.

Ironic part?  Hardly anything ever happened on that airfield- it was a sort of 'spare' facility since the Army Air Force became the Air Force with their own bases.  The point of it is that you can always get SOME information . . . the problem usually you get too MUCH information, and you have to put things together.

One other thing it comes down to . . . no raid has to be unprofitable if you win.  If you have gained control of the environment, there is ALWAYS something that can be taken.  A well planned raid will have a list of primary, secondary and tertiary objectives where you have identified the low-volume/high-value items to be taken- which will mostly be finished product; jewels, gold, silver, platinum, radioactives?, liquor, bundles of cash, tech, data(!!!!), weapons, ammo, art, and BT classics like fusion reactors or water filters.

[Kovax]

Most games treat pirates as suicidal or homicidal crazies who attack for the sake of killing.  More realistically, any successful pirate group would avoid combat if at all possible, preferring to steal or extort things that are poorly guarded, and threaten violence and rampant destruction if they don't get it as a way of obtaining it without a fight.  If there's any actual fighting, it means things have already gone wrong, because the target decided to resist and risk retaliation.

Any reaction force on-planet will need to mobilize and load up, while they wait to see where the pirates land, and it will take time until they reach the probable target.  Ideally, the pirates will already have made their quick grab and will be escaping back to their dropship by that point, which may move to a pickup spot different from the original landing site.  Catching them will be mainly by accident, where the guess of the defenders out of several possibilities happens to correspond with the actual pirate plan.

[Colt Ward]

Most games treat pirates as suicidal or homicidal crazies who attack for the sake of killing.  More realistically, any successful pirate group would avoid combat if at all possible, preferring to steal or extort things that are poorly guarded, and threaten violence and rampant destruction if they don't get it as a way of obtaining it without a fight.  If there's any actual fighting, it means things have already gone wrong, because the target decided to resist and risk retaliation.

Yeah, to express it in current terms . . . in fiction we get the common street gang of toughs . . . while we should see the range of pirates from 'street gang' level to 'Italian Job' level professionals.

[grimlock1]

So outside a military base . . . suddenly younger people with specific haircuts start making arrangements for their pets and dropping local college/university classes?  Deployment.  Lots of the same type of people start start selling their cars and other property?  Unit is rotating out for another station and they do not want to haul crap.  A single person with the haircut selling stuff?  They are PCS'ing to somewhere else.

Ever watch the movie 'Spy Game' with Brad Pitt and Robert Redford?  During Pitt's training phase they actually cover some of the little details you can pick up to learn about people.

A Tom Clancy novel, possibly Op Center, opined that one way to know if the US was planning something was to watch the parking lots at the Pentagon, that and how much food was being delivered after hours.  Clancy, or at least one of his characters figured that every food delivery place that serviced the Pentagon had at least one person on a foreign intelligence service's payroll.  The implication was more "here's $50 a week.  Give me a heads up if you make any deliveries to the Pentagon," than full on KGB or MSS agents working deep cover as delivery drivers.

[Mecha82]

I can image those working on principle with idea of strike hard, strike fast, take what you want and leave before reinforcements arrive. It is very much pirate way after all.

[glitterboy2098]

Most games treat pirates as suicidal or homicidal crazies who attack for the sake of killing.  More realistically, any successful pirate group would avoid combat if at all possible, preferring to steal or extort things that are poorly guarded, and threaten violence and rampant destruction if they don't get it as a way of obtaining it without a fight.  If there's any actual fighting, it means things have already gone wrong, because the target decided to resist and risk retaliation.

Any reaction force on-planet will need to mobilize and load up, while they wait to see where the pirates land, and it will take time until they reach the probable target.  Ideally, the pirates will already have made their quick grab and will be escaping back to their dropship by that point, which may move to a pickup spot different from the original landing site.  Catching them will be mainly by accident, where the guess of the defenders out of several possibilities happens to correspond with the actual pirate plan.

i would actually assume that many of those larger "homicidal crazies" type groups are actually working in a vikingish vein.. visit a few times to smash and grab, build up a reputation.. then the next few times you come visiting you can pop in, send a message saying "we have arrived, and if you don't want us to do like we did the last several times, deliver the items on the attached list to these coordinates.".
thus getting the world to pay the danegeld to prevent the killing, but never being free of the danes.

which could easily segue into a fun scenario in the "7 samurai" vein.. a planet that a group of pirates has been pulling danegeld on for years finally gets fed up with it, goes and recruits some defenders (aka the players), and tries to fight the next time the pirates come calling.



that said there probably are smaller groups that actually are just homicidal crazies. they wouldn't last very long before one of the larger established groups take them out (or recruit them)

[Colt Ward]

that said there probably are smaller groups that actually are just homicidal crazies. they wouldn't last very long before one of the larger established groups take them out (or recruit them)

I also expect them to be planet-bound . . . on places like Antallos or Astrokrasy.

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

Thanks for the good ideas.

A few thoughts.
 You need there to be a reason for the Pirates to raid. It doesn't have to be a good reason, just good enough to be plausible.
 They certainly need ground intelligence - There's no point in raiding for food before the harvest. You need to know when the ore processing plant is just about ready for a dropship to arrive and load up with refined metal (even better - hijack said dropship before it arrives in system).
 Also, given the lower tech levels on many world's that pirates are likely to raid, a few agent's on the planet could provide the necessary diversions for the raid. Convenient power failures, infrastructure collapse (bridges, tunnels, anything that might require local militia to used for crowd control, S & R, etc.), threatening brush fires. You get the idea.
 Unless the object of the raid is completed military equipment that is unguarded the pirates are going to need a cargo dropship and possibly their own ground forces to move the loot.

Most games treat pirates as suicidal or homicidal crazies who attack for the sake of killing.  More realistically, any successful pirate group would avoid combat if at all possible, preferring to steal or extort things that are poorly guarded, and threaten violence and rampant destruction if they don't get it as a way of obtaining it without a fight.  If there's any actual fighting, it means things have already gone wrong, because the target decided to resist and risk retaliation.

Any reaction force on-planet will need to mobilize and load up, while they wait to see where the pirates land, and it will take time until they reach the probable target.  Ideally, the pirates will already have made their quick grab and will be escaping back to their dropship by that point, which may move to a pickup spot different from the original landing site.  Catching them will be mainly by accident, where the guess of the defenders out of several possibilities happens to correspond with the actual pirate plan.

Yep, they are not only the bloodthirsty homicide maniac. Since they needs to maintain their machines at least, they surely wants the outcomes, after all. It seems essential to provide the situations that feasible for the pirates(or at least their point of view).

(Stuffs)

Wow. Thanks. You enlighten me how the spy actually works. It is very helpful to portray the spy, not only the pirates.

It reminds me, those 'gather information' from the prisoner(of war) is usually piece together various insignificant stuffs gained from many of them, for they never wants to spit out the really important one easily but they may say for something they don't think that it is important at all.

i would actually assume that many of those larger "homicidal crazies" type groups are actually working in a vikingish vein.. visit a few times to smash and grab, build up a reputation.. then the next few times you come visiting you can pop in, send a message saying "we have arrived, and if you don't want us to do like we did the last several times, deliver the items on the attached list to these coordinates.".
thus getting the world to pay the danegeld to prevent the killing, but never being free of the danes.

which could easily segue into a fun scenario in the "7 samurai" vein.. a planet that a group of pirates has been pulling danegeld on for years finally gets fed up with it, goes and recruits some defenders (aka the players), and tries to fight the next time the pirates come calling.

that said there probably are smaller groups that actually are just homicidal crazies. they wouldn't last very long before one of the larger established groups take them out (or recruit them)

It reminds me McEvans' Sacrifice. Defend the weak remote planet against the pirates seems a good scenario plot as wel;.

And as you pointed out such individuals that is no more than the homicidal maniac doesn't last long as the group or the group of armored unit. A single criminal only needs the foods and money for live, but a mech needs maintenance and supply to keep it run. As a group of armored corps they are expected to seek for the gain in order to keep the group, simply dying out, or just end up provide the fresh recruit for the more powerful and smarter group.

[R.Tempest]

 Speed is always critical. Really, a Pirate raid is no different from a military raid except that the Pirates are working for themselves rather than a government.
 Occasionally though, you could have a situation where the Pirates have the opportunity to crush the defenders. The Pirates have to make a tough decision. Maintain operational tempo and go for the pre-planned objectives and get out, or engage the defenders, take casualties, but defeat them and have the time to truly clean the target out. (Don't worry about out-system reinforcements - you're Pirates. Destroy the HPG antenna. No one can call for help.)

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

  Pirates tend to be survivalists who avoid taking risks. Since they are independent businesses, and don't depend on a taxpayer base to pay salaries and budget for equipment and supplies, pirates have to generate cash flow, which usually means low-risk, high yield missions that net salable products. It would be normal for pirates to have the schedules of harvest seasons on several planets, where they would make rounds and collect grain, produce and whatever passes for industrial output on these worlds.

  HPG stations are normally guarded by professionals, who would not have any problem with helping the locals out. All but the largest Pirate units would avoid these.

  Unless the pirates are a rogue mercenary unit or military deserters, don't expect a lot of expensive military hardware, like battlemechs. A good portion of their equipment would be cargo vehicles to haul off loot or prisoners. Pirates far away from civilization will likely run on shoestring budgets and be more like armed mobs with some vehicles. Food is always good for trade, as are slaves.
  Pragmatic pirates might try to keep a low profile and try not to cripple a settlement's supplies to the point where they enter crisis territory -That might bring in regular military units, instead of a smattering of mercenaries, who are just as eager to avoid confrontation.

  Cautious pirates might send scouts down to the planet, before any of their main force is deployed. This process takes time and costs fuel, and risks tipping off the target. The drive plume of a DS entering or leaving atmosphere is almost impossible to miss from the ground, and cannot be mistaken for anything else.

  Using pirate points... Using these normally requires very detailed data on the system and the satellites that traverse around its sun and/or great familiarity with the system as well as a skilled navigator. Given time, a Jumpship could probably calculate the pirate points nearest to a destination planet if its data is thorough enough. Pirates not confident of the navigator's abilities might just have to spend the days to weeks needed to travel from the regular jump point.
  Some people worry about the emergence wave created by a JS entering a system. Unless they have sensor radars on the ground (ATC facilities or even dropships) or satellites near the jump points that send out a signal, an arriving JS would get no attention on most backwater worlds.
 
  For the most part, pirates aren't idiots and rarely suicidal. They'll fight when they have to, or if the reward outweighs the risks, but damaged equipment and the loss of trained personnel eats into the profits.

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

At least it is sure that almost all idiot or sucidial pirates are not able to survive their first raid attempt(or they are not able to ever had a chance to actually rise to the position). Only the raw luck can't explain their existence.

[Colt Ward]

  Pragmatic pirates might try to keep a low profile and try not to cripple a settlement's supplies to the point where they enter crisis territory -That might bring in regular military units, instead of a smattering of mercenaries, who are just as eager to avoid confrontation.

To your point- Sheer the sheep for wool, do not butcher it for sheepskin.


Some of the mentioned points get back around to what would exist on the black economy out in the periphery, merc worlds, Solaris VII or temp lawless zones (Chaos March, Dark Age Republic, League break up) . . . namely that information is always a commodity that can be traded.  BT does not get into it much, except with Bounty Hunter stories it seems, but places with mercenaries (who could be privateers), gladiators, and pirates are likely to have several somebodies who sell information they collect.  Politely called analysis groups or think tanks, they buy information and may even run field agents to collect specific information.  The guy buying a merchant spacer a drink because his dropship works for Star Corps and visits Son Hoa frequently could be asking questions about what the spacer saw on planet when he did his last pick up . . . the guy might be selling his information, by HPG, to someone out in Circinus along with selling it to someone on Atreus.

Oops, more on this later.

[pfarland]

Here we're getting into the private spy business. Something that would be more lucrative where ever you find a lot of low income groups that are vying for position and ideas for 'heists' and the like. So much opportunity for role play that doesn't even involve mechs. Whether it be a pirate group keeping an ear to the ground and paying off what few souls they can to find the next score or a special forces unit covertly landed on planet to gather intel before an invasion and then perhaps some guerilla strikes right before and during the invasion.

[Marveryn]

right.  Pirate don't need to do the spying themselves.  They just need to know someone that knows someone that has the information.  In a world where piracy is common.  Such a person would be in the know and highly well place.  Pirates need a score large enough to pay for the travel.  they may even run a legit business till they find the proper score.  Such be merchants on the side delivery good to a certain world only to steal it right back on a later date. 

[pfarland]

Frankly all you need to really know is some basics and who to sell the info to. Most of the planets a pirate group is going to go after are most likely to have minimal defense forces. All you really need is an idea of where they will be when. Something frightfully easy to get through just a couple of honeypots.

[wanderer25]

So . . . IMO, really one of the best sources for raiding ideas period?  Sounds funny, but its from another game property- West End Game's Pirates & Privateers from the original Star Wars material.  I LOVE that book and its one of the three SW books they produced that I carry information over to other settings.

I like that book allot too!  I'm wondering what are the other two books ?  Guide 6 Tramp Freighter? Guide 8 Scouts? Smuggler's guide?

[Colt Ward]

Hideouts & Strongholds- they literally have a minor noble holding that you could lift for BT, it has 'walker' defenses! and a lot of little story ideas and discussions about building places to be, gets into power types, pre-fab structures and more.

Other book I use is Platt's Starguide . . . from how to slip through security on a important Imperial world to some freeport floating out on on the swamps.

The gear supplement, does as a IC catalogue to order from, is also a lot of fun & spawned BT ideas though the weapons & such do not carry over much.